What are your unpopular gaming opinions?

[finalark]

And often it's not just the game, but more so a character. Oh sure (s)he looks nice, but why should I care about what happens to them. A great example of this is DoA Xtreme; Sure gave the breasts and bikinis, but it also missed what made the fighting game franchise good: the gameplay. Instead of being an interesting fighting game that just so happens to have boobs, it was all style but no substance. And that's when I get pissed with fanservice.

I couldn't agree more. DoA is a good series because it's a fun and rewarding fighter that would still work even without the boobie ladies. DoA Extreme falls on its face because of the minimal effort put into the game play since the mentality is that all the game needed was half naked ladies.

Frankly speaking, if I wanted to see that, I wouldn't pay $60 for it.

To end my tirade, I wanted to bring up an idea: We've been talking about DoA and SK for a good while now. But I'm curious about the opinions of other certain characters. Like, what about Shantae or Samus? Are they sexualized? Granted they don't flaunt their naughty bits with gainaxing galore, but they could be considered hot, or Fanservice. And they have gone around in revealing clothing. Are they just as bad?

Yeah, but Shantae is indie and thus immune to criticism /sarcasmifyoucouldnttell

I feel like Shantae is a different kind of fanservice. Rather than being a busy bombshell whose personality is that she's a busty bombshell she's a cutie who does cute things and whose personality is that she's a cutie who does cute things. Moe is a thing for a reason.

On the subject of Shantae, why does nobody ever bring up Risky's design in these conversations?

Spoiler

As far as Sammy goes, I'm going to be the guy who goes out and says that (aside from the Prime games) she's been used for some level of sex appeal in most of the games. Consider: Your reward for beating the game and doing it well is usually pictures of Samus in less and less clothes.

 

[Kurri ★]

Samus and Shantae aren't quite as bad, because they're not designed for maximum sex appeal; they're just people who happen to be good-looking individuals.

It's when we get characters like Ivy Valentine who explicitly exists for fanservice that things start to go a little out of hand.

While Samus' design may not be bad; which really it sorta is, Brawl's boobsocks and Smash 4's rocket heels; she's still used for sex appeal. Metroid Prime 2's ending rewards the player by slowly panning up her body.

 

[DeleteThisAcct]

This industry is just that- an industry. It's a business. They're going to design characters the way that sells the most copies of their game, so you already know what to expect. And honestly, I don't think that's a bad thing. To make video game characters unrealistically attractive, whether they be male or female, is another way to make games fun and interesting. And yes, it does happen with male characters as well, though not geared towards sexualization as much they are definitely not always realistic.

"Business as usual" is not a valid excuse / defense for unacceptable behavior / actions. That's like saying sweatshops are okay because profit margins. More relevantly, by that logic, they might as well make games that are fully pornographic (actually GTA V kinda already did this), or say the porn and sex toy industry should be allowed to advertise ANYWHERE and EVERYWHERE because Capitalism.

Again, no, just no.

You wanna make whatever, or consume whatever, fine, I'm not gonna fight you on what you do behind closed doors, but keep it closed; there's a huge difference between art and tastelessness, especially when it lacks any and all subtly. Do it discreetly, and out of the public eye, before our reputations take any further of a hit. I feel that's an acceptable middle ground. Again, I'm sick of being a victim of guilt by association. To bring up an extreme, look what porn did to the Smooth Jazz music genre, it's permanently branded as "porno music" now. Gaming is heading in the same dark direction with needless fan service, where people are associating it with utter crap.

 

[windlessusher]

I actually liked Dead or Alive Extreme, 'tis as fun a mini-game collection as any.

 

[Kurri ★]

I actually liked Dead or Alive Extreme, 'tis as fun a mini-game collection as any.

I always hated DoA Xtreme, but not because of the fanservice. Younger me just could not understand why cool ninja dude (Hayabusa) couldn't join in on the fun.

 

[windlessusher]

I always hated DoA Xtreme, but not because of the fanservice. Younger me just could not understand why cool ninja dude (Hayabusa) couldn't join in on the fun.

He's just shy.

 

[Iceweasel]

Wow, I'm disappointed. I can't believe I missed all that drama in this thread.

 

[windlessusher]

I can't believe there's someone here named SimonBarSinister.

If that's not an Underdog reference, I'm gonna be sad.

 

[DarkBlueSpark]

Samus and Shantae aren't quite as bad, because they're not designed for maximum sex appeal; they're just people who happen to be good-looking individuals.

I would argue that they don't "happen to be good-looking individuals." The developers designed them that way. They know players like attractive characters and thus designed Samus and Shantae to be attractive. However, I do agree the developers for those characters were not going for maximum sex appeal.

I get what you guys are saying about Shadow the Hedgehog, but honestly even if I went back and played it today, I'd probably still enjoy it. I loved Sonic Heroes as well. The one Sonic game I disliked during that era was Sonic Adventure. I'm not sure how people feel about that game though as I don't see too many people talking about it.

 

[gmBottles]

So because it's an industry and just doing what will sell well it's free from criticism? If so, that's pretty dumb if you ask me.

No, not exactly. I mostly just meant to say that as to give a reason why it's there (which is an obvious one of course) and to explain that it is most likely not gonna go away. I didn't mean to excuse it, that's my bad

Now, to actually explain my stance a little better...
I don't think overtly sexualized characters are an entirely bad thing. I think they do have their place, and of course they have their places they shouldn't be as well. Seeing a pair of gnarly boobs in GTA is different than if it were in Hello Kitty Roller Rescue. That's obvious.
But in my opinion, I don't see how having attractive, sexualized characters is a bad thing. It's a nice escape from reality. A guy's fantasy, with hot women and ripped bros, and a girl's fantasy, with ripped bros and hot women. People like to play as attractive characters, whether they be a guy or a girl. It makes them feel better about their character and get's them into it more.

But to give my final verdict on it, let's look at advertising. There are ways attractive men and women are used well as art, such as various perfume and cologne ads. And then there's Hardee's/Carl's Jr. Commercials are literally just sweet burgers and juicy ass. (might've switched those up but I don't think it matters here) So you can see from that how it can be tasteful or terrible.

Aaaand pretty much all of this has been said already
Thought I'd go ahead and clear up my position anyways

 

[finalark]

I always hated DoA Xtreme, but not because of the fanservice. Younger me just could not understand why cool ninja dude (Hayabusa) couldn't join in on the fun.

DoA Xtreme 3 needs to include male characters.

Imagine how glorious it would be to see Ryu and Brad Wong dressed in nothing but speedos while they jet ski around an island.

 

[Carrill]

I can't see Yo-Kai Watch performing well in the West. There's just no way it would translate well into Western culture.

 

[Substitution]

I can't see Yo-Kai Watch performing well in the West. There's just no way it would translate well into Western culture.

I don't know though. I mean, Okami, while a cult hit, was critically acclaimed. Heck, it got a sequel and remake.

 

[Carrill]

Substitution

Okami was critically acclaimed, yes. But it didn't sell well. It wasn't a commercial success.

Part of the problem with Yo-Kai Watch performing well in the West is explaining to people what it is. What's a Pokemon? Obviously, it's a monster that fits in your pocket. What's a Bulbasaur? It's a little dinosaur with a bulb on its back. What's a Yo-Kai? What's Jibanyan? These are questions that are going to make it an incredibly difficult sale for Western audiences.

Back in the 90s, I think Pokemon hit a sweetspot where it was just unfamiliar enough to be intriguing yet still understandable for just about anyone in the world. The fact that most Pokemon have differing names across parts of the world is a contributing factor to this (I don't know if they plan on doing this for Yo-Kai Watch). I really think that Yo-Kai Watch being so incredibly Japanese is going to be a problem for it.

 

[Substitution]

Substitution

Okami was critically acclaimed, yes. But it didn't sell well. It wasn't a commercial success.

Part of the problem with Yo-Kai Watch performing well in the West is explaining to people what it is. What's a Pokemon? Obviously, it's a monster that fits in your pocket. What's a Bulbasaur? It's a little dinosaur with a bulb on its back. What's a Yo-Kai? What's Jibanyan? These are questions that are going to make it an incredibly difficult sale for Western audiences.

Back in the 90s, I think Pokemon hit a sweetspot where it was just unfamiliar enough to be intriguing yet still understandable for just about anyone in the world. The fact that most Pokemon have differing names across parts of the world is a contributing factor to this (I don't know if they plan on doing this for Yo-Kai Watch). I really think that Yo-Kai Watch being so incredibly Japanese is going to be a problem for it.

Fair enough with Okai.

But take into consideration that with Pokemon of course we'd know who Bulbasaur is. Pokemon is not only a largely successful franchise, but a long running one as well. Yokai Watch has just recently appeared (even moreso in the West). Of course the average joe isn't going to know about Jibanyan is. Because it's only now touching our shores.

 

[SimonBarSinister]

You're still missing the point. Maybe I'm just wording it badly. From the top, it's not about personal take-aways or impressionable people learning the wrong things. It's about sensibility and how the more attention seeking games and / or their marketing goes out of its way to offend the average person's common deceny. Yeah, there's people who don't care and will play it anyways and such, if they want to support that, that's on them, BUT, being nonchalant and devil-may-care about it is not okay.

Just because it's not brainwashing people or changing their behavior, doesn't make it right, or acceptable.

Censorship exists and is needed for a reason, because certain things are just messed up and not socially acceptable for the same reason you don't see or hear many things on TV, or the radio, or at say an office, or restaurant, or business, or school, or even the library. Because we, as human beings, should be above such bad taste and primitive thinking by now!

The fact that the game industry is self-entitled and thinks they should be an exception to the rule (or that the rule shouldn't exist at all) is ludicrous. Otherwise we'd have titles like "Custer's Revenge" entering the mainstream because "sex sells" and "mah artistic vision". No! Just no! More than no, HELL NO! Let us NOT degenerate to that! For the love of all that is sacred!

I'm pretty sure that game developers DON'T advocate such behaviors depicted in their games.

You're overthinking this. Right, wrong or otherwise, it's all a matter of opinion. Whether or not we like them, it doesn't matter, they exist, have existed and will continue to exist in the foreseeable future. As a gamer I've accepted that. You should too, because there isn't anything anyone can do about it except live with it.

You're pretty much taking what I say and twisting it to make me sound extreme.

Think about the implications and ramifications of what you're saying. Let me say it again: Otherwise we'd have titles like "Custer's Revenge" entering the mainstream because "sex sells" and "mah artistic vision". No! Just no! More than no, HELL NO! Let us NOT degenerate to that! For the love of all that is sacred!

And now you're just repeating stuff. Not really helping your case.

That's on you then. I, for one, when I have daughters someday, do not want them being subjected to such tasteless, degrading, insulting depictions and views on women. They shouldn't have to see that, or be a part of something where that level of meaningless objectification is okay. It shouldn't even be a thing in today's day and age! This shouldn't be an issue. The fact that it still is, still rearing its ugly head, reflects poorly on us.

That's right, it shouldn't be an issue. And yet it is, but not for the reason you think. Violence, sexism, any type of discrimination, these are ideas that have existed since antiquity. Video games didn't start this, people did. But the fact that gaming in its entirety is still going strong suggests that maybe not enough people care enough to get riled up about it, or maybe most people ARE smart enough to realize that gaming isn't just about negative stereotypes and the ones shouting "Heresy!" are the ones in the minority.

That's where you're wrong. It becomes my problem the moment I start getting unfairly judged and shot down over bull**** I never wanted anything to do with in the first place. I don't know about you but I don't want to be some ForeverAlone meme. I want a wife; one who'll share my passion! In my particular area, that involves having to win over a non-gamer, and get them to give gaming a fair shot - which is nearly impossible when the industry's and / or community's face has given them such a horrible taste in their mouth. It's an issue that needs to be addressed unless we enjoy the concept of gaming single. Had these people given me and my library of games a chance, they'd have a totally different impression of gaming and maybe gamers as a whole versus what they see in the mainstream.

Remember what I said about rationality? For some people, it's a foreign concept. I'm not the one that's wrong here. THEY are. People can get lost in their own ignorance, and they get too busy being incensed about something unimportant that they don't take the time to realize how they are acting. If you really do have women like that in your area, then my best advice to you is what I said earlier: Stay away from them. Period. Don't try to reason with them, don't try to convince them, let them wallow in their own ignorance. Let them make fools of themselves. I know I wouldn't get involved with women like that. It's an obvious solution, really.

Well, that's on you. I don't want to be some ForeverAlone meme. I'm very relationship oriented, and I want a girlfriend / wife who'll love gaming as much as I do. Dating sites haven't helped, non-gamers are near impossible to get into gaming because of the aforementioned issues, and perhaps due to those same issues, I can't even find a single girl gamer at any of my public gaming scenes because they don't want to be within 100 miles of that crap. For people who actually want a serious relationship involving a wonderful girl and gaming, without them being mutually exclusive, it becomes a serious issue. Maybe you don't care about finding a girlfriend, or you maybe you already have one, but I do, and **** like this makes my lot a hard one!

See the above post.

And with that, have a nice day.

windlessusher

Good eye. You win a cookie.

 

[windlessusher]

Good Eye. You win a cookie.

 

[TheBuddyAdrian]

-I really like Sonic Lost World and I dont understand all the hate it gets.
-I like Brawl more than Melee
-I think Playstation All Stars battle Royale is a pretty good game.

 

[SimonBarSinister]

Mega Man X3's PSX music is far superior to the SNES version.

I think is the greatest form of Link that ever existed. He really could use another console debut that isn't an HD remake.

I think Mega Man 3 is better than 2.

Federation Force looks kind of fun and comical.

Despite the issues, I still like Sticker Star.

Iceweasel

A little drama is always fun, isn't it?

 

[Ed94]

I just binged this entire thread. It was a great read, here is my way of saying thanks...

Spoiler: My 2cents

I think MOBAs are overrated, and are so popular due to the excessive dopamine kick during tense moments of gameplay and winning ****ty matchups. (Its like playing cookie clicker except now your got more things to do.)

The Stanley Parable was alright, could have had a larger depth and changes to the plot from the choices made. It did not give me an enlightening experience about stories being to linear just made me understand how non-linear story telling can be a turn off as well.

Brothers a Tale of Two sons was boring and not a great experience. The innovative controls could be really dumb at times. Loved the segment of getting to the guy with the glider and the stuff a bit after. The tragic part of the plot did not hit me, felt to distant form the characters to care.

Final Fantasy 7 had some really ****ty cues for where to go next at certain occasions, and the difficulty of enemies was too sporadic.

The only fun part of Kirby Air Ride was City Trial

I have deep regret on paying full price for GTAV. It even looks worse than Just Cause 2 and is more demanding, plot is mediocre, and playing online makes me feel like I'm at risk for a stroke. At least GTA4 had a much more thrilling plot and the online play somehow did not feel toxic even though everything about it should have been.

Smash 4 for me feels worse than Brawl. Even though the ground movement is better, doing anything in air feels like someone decided to replace the air with a gaseous invisible sludge, where aerials are suppressed by dampers on every move, and combos are no where near as satisfying since its so easy to stay in air.

Gran Turismo 5 and 6 are terrible simcades, with the most lovely presentation money can buy.

Pokemon DX is actually a better game than Colosseum.

Roller Coaster Tycoon 1 is still the best in the series.

The original Mario Kart and double dash are the best games in the series.

Road Trip is the best Car RPG ever made.

The eighth console generation is the least innovative of all time. The only dam reason I'm buying the PS4 is for Kingdom Hearts, Bloodborne, Final Fantasy, and the last Guardian, the Wii U for smash (obviously), Beyonetta, and Zelda U. I hold no interest in using them for any sort of interaction beyond this.

 

[finalark]

The only fun part of Kirby Air Ride was City Trial

There's a reason why this is pretty much the only thing that Kirby Air Ride is remembered for. Ironically, the actual racing is slow, doesn't control well and is really boring. But City Trial is one of the best party games ever.

Back in the 90s, I think Pokemon hit a sweetspot where it was just unfamiliar enough to be intriguing yet still understandable for just about anyone in the world. The fact that most Pokemon have differing names across parts of the world is a contributing factor to this (I don't know if they plan on doing this for Yo-Kai Watch). I really think that Yo-Kai Watch being so incredibly Japanese is going to be a problem for it.

Not to mention that US pop culture is still in a state of backlash against Japanese media after some mad overexposure during the anime boom of the 2000s. While anime and manga was once explosively huge in the US (remember when Best Buy had entire aisles filled with anime box sets and bookstores were 25% manga?) we've reached a point where admitting you're into Japanese stuff is bound to get you some negativity.

IMO that and Pokemon are going to be Yokai Watch's biggest opponents. The fact that, as far as most westerners are concerned, the mons genre is basically Pokemon and only Pokemon really hurts its chances.

 

[SimonBarSinister]

There's a reason why this is pretty much the only thing that Kirby Air Ride is remembered for. Ironically, the actual racing is slow, doesn't control well and is really boring. But City Trial is one of the best party games ever.

The basic Air Ride gameplay was still pretty good in my eyes, but yeah, City Trial was where all the fun happened. Top Ride was kind of weak compared to the other two.

 

[BeyondBDS]

-Super Castlevania IV was disappointingly easy compared to CV 1 and 3, and lackluster as a result. Simon had gratuitously generous control and whipping compared to the control in CV 1-3, yet 99% of the time, the level design and enemy placements never took advantage of these improvements and additions. I think Castlevania X68000 (aka "Chronicles") did a better job of having more flexible control than the NES games, as they had levels designed around Simon's modified gameplay (except for the first level which is literally an exact copy of CV1's first level).
-Most bosses in SNK fighters weren't as awful as most people say (I will concede on Igniz from King of Fighters 2001 and Magaki from KoF 11, however). git gud m8

 

[Reila]

The Pokémon series peaked in Generation 5.

Also, it is always hilarious to see people trying to defend sexualization of women in video games. "B-but it sells".

 

[Iceweasel]

I really, really, REALLY hope Youkai Watch falls flat on its ass and dies. You can't possibly comprehend how sick I am of hearing about it.

 

[gmBottles]

The Pokémon series peaked in Generation 5.

Also, it is always hilarious to see people trying to defend sexualization of women in video games. "B-but it sells".

I think the best Pokemon was Gen 3 personally. Of course that was also my first Pokemon game so I have a lot of bias

Sex sells, so what? There's nothing wrong with having a sexualized character as long as they aren't in any titles that would be inappropriate to have them in, such as a kids game.

 

[Kurri ★]

I think the best Pokemon was Gen 3 personally. Of course that was also my first Pokemon game so I have a lot of bias

Sex sells, so what? There's nothing wrong with having a sexualized character as long as they aren't in any titles that would be inappropriate to have them in, such as a kids game.

Again, just because something sells doesn't mean it can't be criticized, how do you not understand that? Sexualizing characters is okay so long as everything fits and the developer understands the implications. For example, I would argue Bayonetta being overly sexual is on the more okay side because that franchise was built with that in mind, being over-the-top and stupid. Metroid however was not built on that, so giving Samus high-heels when she's typically displayed as someone who goes for function over form, it breaks that. On the one hand, I do find it attractive, but at the same time, it's dumb, it's not Samus. She was sexualized for the sole purpose of being sexualized.

It's the same thing in RPGs and MMOs where male armor is big and bulky and covers most to all of the body, but the female equivalent is slender, and many times reveal ample amounts of skin. It makes no sense, it's sexualized for the sole purpose of being sexualized.

I really, really, REALLY hope Youkai Watch falls flat on its *** and dies. You can't possibly comprehend how sick I am of hearing about it.

What's wrong with Youkai Watch. I haven't been following it at all.

 

[gmBottles]

Again, just because something sells doesn't mean it can't be criticized, how do you not understand that? Sexualizing characters is okay so long as everything fits and the developer understands the implications. For example, I would argue Bayonetta being overly sexual is on the more okay side because that franchise was built with that in mind, being over-the-top and stupid. Metroid however was not built on that, so giving Samus high-heels when she's typically displayed as someone who goes for function over form, it breaks that. On the one hand, I do find it attractive, but at the same time, it's dumb, it's not Samus. She was sexualized for the sole purpose of being sexualized.

I don't think to say "it's not Samus" is really fair when her sexualization has been present since the beginning. But I think this is just a situation where our opinions differ. I just don't think sexualization for the sake of sexualization is a bad thing unless it is somewhere inappropriate.

 

[finalark]

It's the same thing in RPGs and MMOs where male armor is big and bulky and covers most to all of the body, but the female equivalent is slender, and many times reveal ample amounts of skin. It makes no sense, it's sexualized for the sole purpose of being sexualized.

I think one the most ridiculous examples of this is the Santa costume you could acquire around Christmas time in World of Warcraft. Here's the (same exact) equipment worn by two characters of the opposite sex:

Spoiler

I'm actually with gmBottles on this one. I don't mind sexualized characters (of either gender) in games, but in an MMO where your character is meant to be a virtual representation of you in the game world I don't think it's particularly fair that one gender gets a fun costume while the other gets the strip club equivalent. At least give players the option to choose which version of the costume they want to wear, regardless of what gender their character is.

Then again, this game also had things like the infamous Ancestral Woolies, booty shorts for both genders to enjoy.

 

[optimuskirby]

-I really like Sonic Lost World and I dont understand all the hate it gets.
-I like Brawl more than Melee
-I think Playstation All Stars battle Royale is a pretty good game.

Yes to all of them, except the one about Sanic. Brawl is better because of the better dodging, balance, & Zelda is actually GOOD. & one more thing: Pokemon Rumble is awesome!

 

[gmBottles]

Zelda is actually GOOD

Lol

Zelda is my favorite character in Brawl, and always has been, but come on, she's pretty bad.

 

[windlessusher]

I think one the most ridiculous examples of this is the Santa costume you could acquire around Christmas time in World of Warcraft. Here's the (same exact) equipment worn by two characters of the opposite sex:

Spoiler

I'm actually with gmBottles on this one. I don't mind sexualized characters (of either gender) in games, but in an MMO where your character is meant to be a virtual representation of you in the game world I don't think it's particularly fair that one gender gets a fun costume while the other gets the strip club equivalent. At least give players the option to choose which version of the costume they want to wear, regardless of what gender their character is.

Then again, this game also had things like the infamous Ancestral Woolies, booty shorts for both genders to enjoy.

Either everyone can be nude, or no one
That's my 2 cents.

 

[optimuskirby]

Lol

Zelda is my favorite character in Brawl, and always has been, but come on, she's pretty bad.

Relativity good. I usually play againts my brother, who is WAY too used to Melee physics. & I'm WAY too used to Brawl physics. So I win. Even if he's MK.

 

[radio silent]

Relativity good. I usually play againts my brother, who is WAY too used to Melee physics. & I'm WAY too used to Brawl physics. So I win. Even if he's MK.

I play Smash 4 against my fish, and I must say, Samus isn't nearly as bad as people say she is.

 

[optimuskirby]

I play Smash 4 against my fish, and I must say, Samus isn't nearly as bad as people say she is.

I'ts the first game she's actually GOOD in. Along with DK.

 

[finalark]

I play Smash 4 against my fish, and I must say, Samus isn't nearly as bad as people say she is.

I can't beat my carpet whenever he plays Bowser. God tier for sure, needs a nerf.

 

[gmBottles]

I'ts the first game she's actually GOOD in. Along with DK.

Samus is preeeettyyyyy good in Melee though. Not top tier, but still really good.

 

[windlessusher]

Samus is good in a lot of ways

ifyaknowwhatImean

 

[gmBottles]

Samus is good in a lot of ways

ifyaknowwhatImean

 

[radio silent]

Samus is good in a lot of ways

ifyaknowwhatImean

I hear ya.

That power armor gets me hot and bothered.