Weird chain grab glitch with TL and DDD

[SuSa]

Should test if stale moves play any part to it.

(Fresh BPCG to edge, then a 7 grabs stale (no pummels) BPCG at edge)

 

[Sosuke]

Hmmm ban picto against Falcos

 

[Vlade]

Hehe, it finally got out. I was happy keeping it concealed though

In the backroom pure is testing something else...

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

God, this is awesome!

Has this been tested on every character from the cast? only 3 is sorta disappointing, but better then nothing.

Now I just need to make pictochat legal in holland

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Hehe, it finally got out. I was happy keeping it concealed though

In the backroom pure is testing something else...

It would have been nice for people to have said, "Falco's Metagame is in the testing phase right now in SBR". It just seemed like nothing at all was happenening except being in limbo. But now, some of us can help to do something.

God, this is awesome!

Has this been tested on every character from the cast? only 3 is sorta disappointing, but better then nothing.

Now I just need to make pictochat legal in holland

I did a quick thing to see if I could get anyone to be LLed in some way on pictochat. Shallow testing not much in-depth on it. I couldn't find anyone else. It was just really late last night. I won't be able to do anything till this afternoon after sports.

Hmmm ban picto against Falcos

Ban it against Falco and we will CP JJ.

 

[Teran]

This thread made my day. I feel all in the dark now though since this was all well and known in FBRoom D=

Ban it against Falco and we will CP JJ.

Haha! That's just brutal.

 

[sixflags11804]

I'm not sure how you are able to get it to work on Diddy, pure. I tried to splat him on the platform of BF but I couldn't do it :/.

 

[BleachigoZX]

Alright I'm not understanding what splatting is.

Is it the short, along the floor, animation after the BPG?

I think I've done it a few times, but it's random. (Assuming what I think splatting is, then I would be correct)

Theories on what causes "Splatting":
Speed
%
Buffering
Aerial Momentum (I think it's this)
Staleness gives everyfew CG a different release speed

Hehe, it finally got out. I was happy keeping it concealed though

In the backroom pure is testing something else...

Why does the SBR keep things from us, or can you elaborate more on that subject?

 

[pure_awesome]

To be honest, I have no idea how it works myself. You'll see in the video I make a few comments on Diddy's trajectory and how I can't figure it out. Sometimes he'll Splat, most of the time he won't.

So far, it just kind of works when it feels like it on BF. It's kind of annoying.


Anyway, I should point out to everyone that you should always end your PictoChat chaingrab on the left side of the level, and should always try to time it to start your Laser Lock just as the stage is switching. This is because you have a higher likelihood of getting something good when the stage switches. I once started my Laser Lock and it drew the whale, which counts as a wall. After LLing against the wall for a bit, he moved across stages and PictoChat drew the wind guy. It blew him back towards me where I forced a standup and Dsmashed into the left blast zone.

Both that and the PictoBlast combo wouldn't be possible on the right side. You're also in no danger at all from hazards on the left side of the stage, since you're in one of PictoChat's few safe zones.

Alright I'm not understanding what splatting is.

Is it the short, along the floor, animation after the BPG?

I think I've done it a few times, but it's random. (Assuming what I think splatting is, then I would be correct)

Theories on what causes "Splatting":
Speed
%
Buffering
Aerial Momentum (I think it's this)

Yes. Splatting is officially when someone is at high enough percent that you Dthrow and they "splat" on the ground in front of you, lying face down. But it's generally used to refer to any Dthrow on the edge that makes someone travel at that bizarre, low trajectory.

What do you mean by aerial momentum?

 

[pure_awesome]

Lol double post.

Pew Pew!

 

[BleachigoZX]

Well when you catch them maybe the character retains some momentum from the throw and doing it quick enough, subtracts from your second throw, giving it that wierd trajectory that cause a character to splat.

I'll post up the weight charts on Diddy and Toon Link for easy reference:

M2K's Weight List

Weight Rankings - ranks characters in order by weight. This was tested with Falco's forward tilt vs a metal coat opponent in training mode, seeing what % it takes to knock them down. The amount these vary by is stressed about double of what it actually is (Jiggs vs Bowser in my other horizontal Weight list has a 1.31x times difference while this one is 1.60 X difference from Jiggs to Bowser) but it is a good way to show the difference between 2 characters (even if nearly doubled by the actual %age difference it should be) and ranks them in order perfectly of how they were programmed for those who were curious. A > means the character to the left of the > lives longer horizontally based off my other horizontal weight test (which involves double jumping ASAP while holding toward the stage), but if they are next to each other that obviously means their programmed weight is the exact same.

.....301 Diddy
+2
.....299 Toon Link > Ice Climbers
+6

Mr Silvers:

Weight:

This one was pretty simple to figure out since it’s the same as it was in Melee. The base knock back of a move is not affected by weight. So this only leaves the incremental knock back with damage. By calculating this incremental knock back against different characters and comparing it to the value I found for Mario I made the following weight table:

Diddy Kong 0.975
Toon Link 0.970
Ice Climber 0.970

Fall speed:

As I already said, base knock back is not affected by the weight of a character. However, different characters still have different base knock back for the same move. Upon further testing I found that this seemed to be related to the fall speed of characters. With characters like Jiggly and Samus having a low base knock back and characters like Fox and Wolf having a high base knock back. My theory is that this was added to account for the increased susceptibility that fast falling characters have to combos. I also found that the amount by which the base knock back for characters differs is not the same for all moves. For weaker moves it’s the same, but for stronger moves it seems to differ a lot. To account for this I took Ike’s fully charged forward Smash as a bench mark and assigned it a value of 100 for the deviation of its base knock back per character. This number is purely arbitrary but it does allow me to make a list to compare fall speed. This gave me the following list. Again I took Mario as a benchmark, hence he has a value of “0”.

Toon Link -0.16
Ice Climber 0.07
Diddy Kong 0.55

I left Ice Cimbers there becuase they have similair weight's to both TL and Diddy. (I was hoping someone could test them out again)

Also heres 3GOD's Aerial Momentum List. I don't know what I'm getting at with these lists but I'm hoping someone else figures it out.

 

[Sosuke]

Ban it against Falco and we will CP JJ.

Toon Link can be pretty gay there too if you know a few things. ^_^

 

[Teran]

Yes. Splatting is officially when someone is at high enough percent that you Dthrow and they "splat" on the ground in front of you, lying face down. But it's generally used to refer to any Dthrow on the edge that makes someone travel at that bizarre, low trajectory.

Wouldn't that mean that the Spacies sort of semi-splat by that definition?
I mean, if you CG Wolf say, at 45% his trajectory will be slightly lower and he'll hit the ground. Still, I know it looks different to TLink's one and it's not really edge dependent, but I was just wondering. I guess I still need to fully understand this splatting business, but I've been trying it already on TLink, DDD and DDK. It's rather good fun.

Lol double post.

Pew Pew!

Make sure it's a Short Hop Double Post to prevent any lag.

Also, make sure your second post is a Silent Post, followed by a boost smash to Mini Mic's face.

*pew pew*

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Well when you catch them maybe the character retains some momentum from the throw and doing it quick enough, subtracts from your second throw, giving it that wierd trajectory that cause a character to splat.

I'll post up the weight charts on Diddy and Toon Link for easy reference:

M2K's Weight List




Mr Silvers:




I left Ice Cimbers there becuase they have similair weight's to both TL and Diddy. (I was hoping someone could test them out again)

Also heres 3GOD's Aerial Momentum List. I don't know what I'm getting at with these lists but I'm hoping someone else figures it out.

Oddly enough, on pictochat nana can be standing CGed at the very edge. (I tried doing it against popo, but everytime I grabbed him the auto nana would take over and hit me out of the CG). This doesn't work like it does against TL and Pikachu on other stages, but one more character to help solve why this happens it good. I think you might be on to something with the weight thing.

 

[Vlade]

I thought that it was something to do with the characters' heights...

When I discovered it worked on toon link, I had no idea why. Then pure found out that it also worked on diddy... I had a hunch that it might because they were the some height but I just couldn't get it to work back then.

 

[sixflags11804]

^^

It works on King Dedede too though, who is a huge fatass!

 

[BleachigoZX]

Oddly enough, on pictochat nana can be standing CGed at the very edge. (I tried doing it against popo, but everytime I grabbed him the auto nana would take over and hit me out of the CG). This doesn't work like it does against TL and Pikachu on other stages, but one more character to help solve why this happens it good. I think you might be on to something with the weight thing.

Try a single climber.


Also has anyone considered the size of the platfrom affecting the chances of a "Splat"?

 

[Carbonated]

I thought that it was something to do with the characters' heights...

When I discovered it worked on toon link, I had no idea why. Then pure found out that it also worked on diddy... I had a hunch that it might because they were the some height but I just couldn't get it to work back then.

Just throwing this out there, it could be something like the ratio of height to weight. Since it works on DDD who is a major fatty, it can't be a single factor that signals if it will splat. Fall speed could play a factor in there somehow since everyone that it seems to work on have very close fall speed.

Also has anyone considered the size of the platfrom affecting the chances of a "Splat"?

I don't believe that it would, as the pass through platforms and pictochat aren't exactly comparable.

 

[BleachigoZX]

It could be the slant?

I'm just trying to throw out every possible idea that I can.

 

[§witch]

Everything happens when I go inactive, I swear to god.

It has to do with the width of the characters, ness and lucas are un-LL'able normally, because of their lie-down animation. They are too close to the ground, so it doesn't work. The same holds true for TL.

EDIT: I just found out I'm no longer in the FBR, silly Ozz.

 

[kismet2]

^^

It works on King Dedede too though, who is a huge fatass!

Are you coming to the Waba monthly on the 16th of this Month?

Btw Falco has a standing chain grab on squirtle but the timing is strict. You'd probably have an easier time if you used splatting.

 

[tocador]

Sorry for trolling, so i at least could say for you guys to try at different % to strat the CG! I mean, you see what happenend to pika when they tried starting the CG at other %!

Just give it a shot i dont really know U.U!!! But one thing i know, this is really amazing! Great Find!

 

[Denzi]

Yeah, i hate falcos U.U! Cmon, i imagine that like in a month or two from now, people will have discovered taht if you do [insert complicated stuff here] you will be able to CG > LL > Create a imaginary wall > LL in wall > have time to CG aggain > Create other imaginary wall > U-smash.

And it will be a 0~death combo in 99% of the cast, except MK!(dam him!)

Thanks for contributing. >=[

@ Kismet: Is it possible to do any follow ups out of it that you wouldn't be able to use out of a regular CG?

 

[sixflags11804]

Are you coming to the Waba monthly on the 16th of this Month?

Btw Falco has a standing chain grab on squirtle but the timing is strict. You'd probably have an easier time if you used splatting.

Yes, I should be there. Also I don' t think splatting works on squirtle, only TL, pika, diddy, and DDD.

Falco technically has a standing chain grab against wolf and fox as well (along with some other characters).

 

[Hawks go Caw]

What makes squirtle special that he can be standing CG'd and not others?

@Denzi: I'm guessing that with a standing CG, you could do a Bair and get the strong hit box to connect. Actually, now that I think about it, can you get the strong hit box to connect after the normal CG by just RAR'ing it?

 

[kismet2]

Thanks for contributing. >=[

@ Kismet: Is it possible to do any follow ups out of it that you wouldn't be able to use out of a regular CG?

Not really, just thought I'd share it. But I haven't really tried anything out of it so I guess I could try tonight or tomorrow.

Yes, I should be there. Also I don' t think splatting works on squirtle, only TL, pika, diddy, and DDD.

Falco technically has a standing chain grab against wolf and fox as well (along with some other characters).

Well when you splat, you're allowed an extra grab on squirtle. Falco can grab pit twice in standing position.

What makes squirtle special that he can be standing CG'd and not others?

@Denzi: I'm guessing that with a standing CG, you could do a Bair and get the strong hit box to connect. Actually, now that I think about it, can you get the strong hit box to connect after the normal CG by just RAR'ing it?

I'm not sure. And I think you can RAR it, but good luck hitting short characters with it. You'd have an easier time using it against floaty or tall characters like Ganon, Lucario, Samus, or RoB.

Also, this seems weird. But you can continue to chain grab Dedede to about %90. He get gets out of the standing grab at like %36-45ish, but if you can boost pivot both of those grabs to position yourself back to splatter then you can grab him some more. Or you can just pummel to get the damage up.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Either way, DDD is getting more messed up against falco then ever before xD Won't belong before we think the match-up is 70-30 or worse xP

@Kismit: So you mean you can literally get a 0-90% CG or do you mean that if you splatted DDD at 80% you could get a regrab even without prior CG to ~40%?

 

[kismet2]

Either way, DDD is getting more messed up against falco then ever before xD Won't belong before we think the match-up is 70-30 or worse xP

@Kismit: So you mean you can literally get a 0-90% CG or do you mean that if you splatted DDD at 80% you could get a regrab even without prior CG to ~40%?

You get a regrab. I guess you could do a normal chain grab towards the ledge then position yourself to splat. Make sure he's at about %49 or higher when you Dthrow him at the ledge to take him to 90 with standing grabs.

 

[Hawks go Caw]

So I got my Wii back and started trying this. You don't even need to do a RBPG. If you're standing on the edge and TL is right next to you then you can just grab him and the Dthrow will have the reduced knockback thing. It's not as practical as doing a RBPG into the ledge since you can't really control it, but it should work if TL's standing on the edge and you just roll towards him and grab.

Edit:
Oh, and I only did it in training mode, so I'm not sure how much non-staleness came into play, but if you grab at zero, make sure to pummel a few times before the 4th throw or else he won't splat.

 

[Hawks go Caw]

Double post for a bump

Has the back room done more testing on this? It's pretty ballin'.

So you don't need to BPG to do it, nor does your opponent have to be on the edge. The only positioning requirement to get the weakened knockback effect is that Falco must be on the ledge.

Emphasis on the positioning part. This apparently is also dependent upon percentage. I tried this on different characters and I got to Pikachu and . . . it didn't work at zero percent. However, I tried it again after the initial failed Dthrow with Pikachu at 9% and Pikachu did the weird animation where it looked like a ground release. So we finally have something to counteract Pika's CG on us. Better yet, on Pictochat, Lylat and one part of Delfino plaza (where there's some stairs on the left next to a pool of deep water), after the 40% Dthrow, this leads into a laser lock. Unfortunatley, LL didn't work on Yoshi's Island

Anyway, long post short, THIS NEEDS MORE TESTTTIIINNNGGGG!!! And different percents and different characters and different Dthrow stalenessssesss.


Edit:

Let it be known that I suck at Smash Bros.

After testing more, it works on Pikachu from 0%. Apparently I suck at timing the grab. It seems to be stricter on some characters than others.

But anyway, a list of characters I've found that it works on and the percentages. 0-Splat, means till about 44-ish%, or when the opponent gets splatted. I didn't list (or rather deleted the list) the characters it fails on so that hopefully others will try it on them and get it to work.

Toon Link: 0 - Splat
DeDeDe: 0 - Splat
Pikachu: 0 - Splat
Wolf: 0 - Splat
Fox: 0-Splat
Sheik: 0-37ish
Captain Falcon: 0-26
Squirtle: 0-37

So for Sheik and Squirtle, you almost get to the splatting range. If you pummel a few times or start at about 5%, the last throw can possibly put them at around the 42 or 44% needed to splat them.

I might be wrong on those last percentages though. They continue having the grounded animation after the Dthrow, it just seems like they break too far away too quickly or something and I can't regrab them past that.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Let it be known that I suck at Smash Bros.

After testing more, it works on Pikachu from 0%. Apparently I suck at timing the grab. It seems to be stricter on some characters than others.

But anyway, a list of characters I've found that it works on and the percentages. 0-Splat, means till about 44-ish%, or when the opponent gets splatted. I didn't list (or rather deleted the list) the characters it fails on so that hopefully others will try it on them and get it to work.

Toon Link: 0 - Splat
DeDeDe: 0 - Splat
Pikachu: 0 - Splat
Wolf: 0 - Splat
Fox: 0-Splat
Sheik: 0-37ish
Captain Falcon: 0-26
Squirtle: 0-37

So for Sheik and Squirtle, you almost get to the splatting range. If you pummel a few times or start at about 5%, the last throw can possibly put them at around the 42 or 44% needed to splat them.

I might be wrong on those last percentages though. They continue having the grounded animation after the Dthrow, it just seems like they break too far away too quickly or something and I can't regrab them past that.

So those characters it does work on? Capt Falcon splatting at 26%? That's strange tbh.

On which of these characters can you do the standing chaingrab at the ledge?

 

[Hawks go Caw]

So those characters it does work on? Capt Falcon splatting at 26%? That's strange tbh.

On which of these characters can you do the standing chaingrab at the ledge?

Splatting occurs at around 44%. Captain Falcon gets out before you can splat. At least he did for me; it might just be that I didn't time the regrab well enough. From what I see, you have to regrab right after the noise of the Dthrow ends.

I did some more testing on Pikachu on FD. If you grab him at 0%, you have to pummel twice before you Dthrow for him to have the weak knockback.

 

[AvoiD]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=233991

Just posting link to HGC's thread. If he didn't already.

<_<