Oh God, this is gonna be LONG
^He's actually rather slow overall. He just has a very fast running speed. But that doesn't really make too much of a difference in Brawl
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When you're character stinks overall, and running speed is your greatest attribute, it definitely does make a difference. Not nearly enough people make use of Sonic's speed effectively.
It's a red herring XD
Sonic is mostly limited by his low priority. MK's d-tilt in place > everything Sonic has.
Nop, sonics tilts will clang with MKs, and most every other chars tilts. MKs dtilt comes out fast, but Sonics dtilt has a longer lasting hitbox if I'm not mistaken, and his ftilt outranges MKs dtilt. Also, Sonic's Spindash will at worst clang with dtilt from a smart distance. Sonics ftilt and dtilt also shieldpoke.
The running speed actually does allow you to do quite a bit with those dash attacks.
Jeff plays a mean Sonic, but you ultimately just hit him through his attacks and avoid his kill moves and you can beat it most of the time.
Looll, like mathos said, this is true about any matchup: don't get hit. You won't be hitting Sonic out of all his attacks. bad priority is OVERLY exagerated. His only moves with "bad" priority are his homing attack, SDR(spindash roll from SideB or DownB) when used from too far or after too many turnarounds or with too little of a charge, and his ASC generally does poorly against disjointed moves. Otherwise everything else is at worst average. You can make a case for Nairbecause its not very disjointed, but its also very fast.
Sonic has like, one. F-smash. His u-air and bair can also work, but you either have to be set up beforehand or completely brain dead to get hit with them. This makes it difficult.
I enjoy using tilts against Sonic, because the moment he starts his dash animation there is nothing he can do against them.
Bair will be used as much as fsmash to kill, and it is not hard to land at all. Dsmash is Sonics quickest smash, and is quite reliable as well. Some sonics spam bair like crazy though, so staleness occurs.
That last part is quite fail, sorry OS. Once sonic is in his dash, for one he can like, shield lol. He quickly slides a significant distance after shielding too, so chances are he will have slided into range of grabbing you after shielding a move. But he also has SideB cancels and a plethora of other options.
His only reliable killing moves are forward smash (comes out surprisingly fast) and sometimes bair. You can often just plow through whatever he comes at you with and even if he does get a hit in it's no big deal. Fine by me, Sonic is Snake's mortal enemy.
Lol, fsmash fast. Compared to what, Ike fsmash? And you can't just plow through Sonic's moves.
I have played against some decent Sonics and I think they are actually better played walking than running. Using spacing, Sonic can use tilts and forward smash to slowly approach/control space. It's more boring than running all over the stage, but effective. Once you have your opponent playing a more slow, paced game, then you can abuse the quick running speed for dash attacks and grabs. He is, by no means, top tier. But he really does have some decent options for racking up damage and his F-Smash comes out fast enough that once he's got you at a high percent, he can work effectively for a kill. BAir also comes out quickly and picks up a lot of kills.
This may be true for some matchups, but its contingent on player style. All the best Sonics have drastically different playstyles that are more or less effective on different chars for each. Its important to be dynamic in your playstlyle while still taking advantage of his speed. But I agree with much of this however.
I've played multiple sonic players (Hella, Lucky and Mr 3000) and find that this matchup takes extremeeeee patience. Sonic has a few things that are going for him but I feel they are easily outclassed with patience. Also, Sonic isn't too bad at gimping, I've been gimped by him on several occasions as he drops down and back airs or does that forward air after I've already used my jump. I think patience beats out all his approaches and kill set ups, though.
Patience can be of virtue against Sonic, since the character himself has like none, lol. Faints however limit your options through patience, because you basically have less than a 50% chance of knowing what Sonic will do everytime he will approach, no matter hoow good your reading is. And his approaches are
safe. About the players, 3000 is good, but I still don't think he's using Sonic to his full potential. I've seen, at least from vids, too many mistakes or situations he couldve captialized with an AT here amd there, safely.
The last time I played Squared's sonic, was a few months ago, I pretty handily 3 stocked it. But I also had a lot of practice from playing against Rockcrock.
I like when Sonic's try to use their neutral B to recover, all you have to do is dodge and it sends them at a downward angle.
Past that, Sonic is pretty bad. Doesn't his dash attack go over Diddy Bananas, without picking them up. I think Prime told me that once.
This post is ouch. I dunno who the people you mentioned are, or if their Sonics are any good lol. Also, Sonic can change the speed of his Homing Attacks release, we can use that against you if you spotdodge. And lol, everyone picks up Bananas with a dash attack. Lol, Sonic's is actually prolly one of the best for that.
That said, he DOES do well at punishing simple mistakes. A good Sonic player will mess you up good if you play sloppy.
QFT. FD in 55 frames people.
i used to think sonic was just awful, really light with non-efficient kill moves.
but then i realized that his style of play is just different, if you can utilize his moves fully than you really just fly around all fast, never getting in harms way. a slew of spin attacks and upB always gets you out of the action and confuses your opponent, but if you are consistently giving damage while always escaping, youll eventually win with some kill moves.
i see nifty sonic tricks people do, like where he spins at you, stops right in your face and grabs. also, just "fake" spin attacks, where they start then immediately stop to throw you off
One of the best posts from the SBR. Those fake spin attacks are what we call either ASC or SideB shield cancelling, and its part of the reasonw hy our approaches are so safe. If we don't cancel sideB, it has invincibility frames and then very high priority frames afterwards, so itll likely still go through attacks. ASC has a bunch of priority upon touching the ground as well. But they can still be shield cancelled to Sonics pleasure.
What does Mr. 3000 and the like do with him that is different? From what I've seen, all the "good" Sonic players do is no different than the "bad" Sonic players... the good sonic players just do it better and call their opponent on more.
It seems Sonic's entire game is based around punishment.
Actually, I would agree with your statement on Mr. 3000, because he doesnt use ATs but is still good. The vast majority of good Sonics however, make use of his techs, which bad players don't lol. ASC and followups, good SDR followups, jab lock setups, exploiting invincibility frames, Spinshots, using Sonics ultraversatile foxtrot, etc etc.
I really think Sonic has potential against characters that have a good deal of start-up lag on their attacks as well as ending lag. Sonic is fast enough to really abuse the short startup lag on most smashes... He can dash grab many characters from a surprising distance without worrying about smash attacks. Tilts and jabs are generally fast enough to knock Sonic out of the way, but when your opponent is attempting to KO they very much have to rely on aerials. The old Melee trick of waiting until they land to grab them could work well for Sonic, as if even if he is punished by a tilt or jab it is unlikely the opponent can follow up with a KO move.
This is a good point. Again, FD in 55 frames. With proper spacing, he can punish lag oh so easily. He covers over a fourth of FD in the time it takes for his own Fsmash to come out. Sonics won't use dash grabs though, or at least not intentionally though, most of the time. SIdeB cancelled grabs or Running shield grabs are much more effective, and both give you more grab distance. Tilts aren't as effective against Sonic as you may think, because of the quite slide he gets from shielding from a run. The wait until they land to gran does indeed work well. Espy does it all the time XD.
The thing about Sonic though is that he's the only character I've witnessed that doesn't seem to be able to take back control of the match once they are thrown off. If you get him on his heels and continue to apply pressure he has few options as far as getting back on the offensive. Which is saying a lot in Brawl.
Hmm, you can argue this I guess, but I think if Sonic reverts to hit and run tactics, theres isn't much you can do: hes too quick. I actually think Sonic is one of the best characters to make a comeback, because of his easy damage racking and gimping abilities
Synopsis:
While Sonic counters Inui, past that he does little else that someone doesn't do better. Sonic is a very fun character to play and has many unique attributes that certainly change the matchup, but these do not overcome his blatant weaknesses. As fast as Sonic's dash may be, his aerial mobility is not up to par and as such his moves are often telegraphed far in advance. This makes it difficult to land aerials on an opponent for a KO, forcing you to use his f-smash as his main KO move. While Sonic is a lot of fun, he isn't that great; he will more than likely be a character that will bring about the occasional surprise in tournaments but will rarely reach the upper levels.
Sonics moves are not telegraphed for the most part, his game relies on cancelling so much, and subsequently, unpredctability and NOT telegraphing his moves. His aerial speed is geat, but you're right his mobility isnt due to poor acceleration. Difficult to land aerials on an opponent for a KO though? I wouldn't say so at all. Uair and Bair are too disjointed. Fsmash and Dsmash are both standard for killing, but Bair will actually probably be used more than Dsmash and as much as fsmash.
