Weekly Character Discussion: Pikachu

[Overswarm]

Let's all talk about yellow rats.

 

[chillindude829]

pikachu sucks right now. i told chu to pick him up though, so give it a month or two and he will be amazing.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

Pikachu is too freaking good. Maybe its because every tournament I go to has Anther in it, but he is honestly annoying as hell. Saying he's bad is just plain untrue. Anybody who has played against Anther can testify that Pikachu is a freaking beast in this game. Given, there are very few Pikachu players that are actually good out there, but that doesn't mean the character isn't good.

Also, Snake vs Pikachu is horrible for Snake. Pika can chainthrow both forward throw and down throw, although you can pull a nade between them, if he down throw chaingrabs you near the end of the stage (or on a slanted stage), the nades will fall off and he can just keep doing it. Also, Pikachu can punish just about everything Snake does. After playing with Anther a bit last night when he came over, I was doing much better against him, but I'm blaming that moreso on him being bored than anything else. Also, ironically enough, Anther insists that Pikachu is bad against Snake. Despite him destroying every Snake he's ever played.

 

[Arash]

pika's down B and down smash got massive upgrades from melee.

i think that this guy is good at camping, and therefore brawl.

 

[M3D]

Pika is much improved from Melee, although not quite back to his impressive level from N64. Of note, his Thunder is far less punishable than it was in previous games. Pikachu has an active hitbox for longer and has fewer recovery frames afterwards before he can get back to action. This means more Thunder kills, especially near the edge of the stage. His chain grab is incredibly annoying and is one of the best in the game outside of D3 and the Climbers. This gives space animal players something to fear from the electric rat. Also, his downsmash is brutal. It chews up shields, has a much larger hitbox than generally expected and has some serious priority. Pika can dodge incoming attacks and then downsmash pretty safely, knowing that if you try to shield it, there's a chance you'll get hit anyways and you'll be punished for trying to grab, dodge or attack.

Pika is significantly better this time out the gates. I don't think he's on par with MK, Falco, Snake, D3 and some of the other top dogs, but I think we'll certainly see some Pikachu mains in this smash generation.

 

[LeeHarris]

G&W wrecks Pika because you can bucket just one thunder and fill the rest with neutral B and you have an instant deadly move.

Also, I hope someone can touch on the up B canceling thing. Hylian played against me in some friendlies with it and it threw me off guard. He obviously isn't a Pikachu main but he was attacking me out of it then instantly teleporting away. I had no idea what he was doing

 

[SamuraiPanda]

G&W wrecks Pika because you can bucket just one thunder and fill the rest with neutral B and you have an instant deadly move.

After watching countless matches of Anther vs Needle of Juntah, I can safely say that G&W doesn't wreck Pika at all.

If you want to understand how good Pikachu is, or how Pikachu works, watch a video of Anther play. You'll understand after that.

 

[Overswarm]

G&W wrecks Pika because you can bucket just one thunder and fill the rest with neutral B and you have an instant deadly move.

Anther has beaten Joel, who got either 7th or 9th at FAST 1, practically every time they played. I think Joel beat Anther once in a tournament with about 11 people in it.

Saying that G&W owns pikachu because he can bucket his thunder and projectiles is noobish thinking at best.

Also, I hope someone can touch on the up B canceling thing. Hylian played against me in some friendlies with it and it threw me off guard. He obviously isn't a Pikachu main but he was attacking me out of it then instantly teleporting away. I had no idea what he was doing

up+b into the ground and it is canceled; you can then jump out of it. Since you can jump out of this, you can also up b again.

 

[Scamp]

The way the up+b canceling thing works (as far as I can tell) is that if you do it into the ground then Pika will end up slightly off the ground with no lag. From there you can technically do any arial (but only the d-air actually comes out, and even then it's just the "extra" hit because you hit the ground while doing it) or land and do a ground move or jump and do whatever. If you do a ground move you do have to wait a split second before you do it, but unless your opponent did something right away (he'd have to predict it. You can't block-throw on reaction or whatever) you'll be fine.


Pika is a powerhouse in a small package. That being said, there seem to be a bunch of holes in his game that he can overcome by being really annoying. The number one weakness IMO is his general inability to kill. That's not to say he doesn't have kill moves, but they can be hard to land on a careful opponent.

Anyway, he's got good speed, a very annoying hit-and-run game, very annoying projectiles, and decent edgeguarding. He does lack in range and can have trouble killing as I mentioned above. Also, I don't think he's so great at racking up damage unless he can chainthrow his opponent.

But yeah, I'll say it again. He's annoying.

 

[Marc]

The few times I played against Pikachu I already felt he could be really dangerous. I didn't lose, but I already saw his potential to give Snake trouble. I don't know if he's a counter, but I could see him become a bad match up easily. I've been playing around with the yellow rat for a bit myself and he definitely is tournament viable (high tier-ish). The annoyance is also a big factor, I find I do much better with him when I start camping than when I try to attack head on (something Snake can do well). Then again, he's no Meta Knight and I think he works best when used in specific match ups. I've yet to find any real flaws with him though, besides being a lightweight.

 

[LeeHarris]

Like Scamp said, he has a lot of problems killing. Dsmash is amazing at racking up damage so it is stale by the time kill % comes around. F smash is extremely predictable and easy to shield. His up smash is probably his only good kill move.

Then again, Falco has the same problem and he does well.

OS: There is one Pikachu player I've ever seen and I always wreck him with G&W. G&W wins in range, power, recovery, and it doesn't help that you can bucket two of Pikachu's amazing moves to give G&W an even better move.

 

[Overswarm]

So... your G&W, not your main, can beat the one Pikachu player you've ever seen and this validates your point when I'm referencing the world's best Pikachu and one of the top G&W players in the country that just recently backed it up with a top 10 placing at FAST 1?

I don't think so

Pikachu does very well again G&W; G&W's ability to bucket the thunder simply means Pika doesn't thunder, and lord help any G&W foolish enough to bucket a thundershock from an approaching Pikachu.


Also, Pika's nair kills quite well. Anther frequently will use this off the stage to get fairly low % kills.

 

[M3D]

Try to bucket thundershock against an approaching Pika and he's going to land and punish you while your bucket is out. You can only bucket them from range without being punished, so as long as the Pika player isn't terrible and understands how to change their game up for the matchup, there is no excuse. You don't thunder and you only thundershock during rushdown. I don't think this is an easy win at all for GW.

 

[Kyari]

Some of my opinions:

It's true that G&W can't really punish Pikachu by actively using bucket to counter approaches, but it does limit how Pikachu plays. It's just like anything else, like Lucas/Ness or Fox/Falco, you can throw the very occasional lightning as a surprise to throw them off, or the occasional Thunder if you think you can hit them before they have a good chance to recover, but the threat still prevents you from using them to their full potential and limits your offensive options. I would say that G&W is slightly advantaged against Pikachu simply because G&W can get earlier kills on Pikachu plus the fact that Pika's offense is mitigated by the threat of G&W's oil.

Aside from G&W, Pikachu has to play carefully against any Metaknight and almost pre-emptively react to occasional Metaknight downsmashes, simply because almost none of Pikachu's moves match Metaknight's in speed. Unlike G&W, Pikachu must make complete and total use of Thunder and Thundershock here to slow Metaknight down, and also just because you can.

Pikachu's downsmash is only an amazing move when your opponent doesn't DI properly, it's still just as punishable as before, but with proper DI you can prevent Pikachu from even thinking about Thunder, and there's typically no other move to follow from a DI'ed downsmash.

Pikachu's Thunder is a great move really, I often techchase hitstun with it and have scored many KO's at percentages I shouldn't have simply because I predict their DI - this works beautifully in doubles!

Marth would be a big threat if he were as fast as Metaknight, but he's not. You must play carefully still against him because of his disjointed hitbox, but you have some advantages over him, such as Thunder, Thundershock, and a lot of raw speed.

 

[KishPrime]

My only contribution here is that I've noticed that characters without good disjointed moves suffer horribly against Pika as he has some ridiculous priority. If you have some, you are in much better shape.

 

[Kyari]

Pikachu makes me happy to be alive sometimes.

 

[Emblem Lord]

*Looks at Pikachu

So that's where Peaches D-smash went.

But seriously, Pika is good and got a major buff. I think most Pika mains are satisfied and I think he has two different CG's. One with f-throw and another with d-throw IIRC.

He seems to do pretty well against Snake thanks to CG, Thunder Jolts and being able to Thunder Bolt the Cypher.

His CG actually helps him out alot vs Spacies and Dedede too.

Overall his moveset is pretty solid as well.

But as previously stated a good character with a disjointed hitbox usually will have advantage over him. Although I think only G&W, MK, and Marth fit that criteria since they are all fast enough with enough range to zone. Other characters that have disjointed hitboxes are usually on the slow side or get CGed to hell and back. Like Ike for example.

 

[Overswarm]

Sorry about this being late! I had a study session today for a test I am taking tomorrow, and it lasted from 11 to 7, so I just now have time!

Synopsis:

Pikachu is a highly mobile character with a near infalliable approach due to his low lag aerials and Quick Attack Cancel. This makes him one of the best "anti-camp" characters in the game. Even his neutral B follows the edge, preventing any form of ledge camping! His TWO chain throws give him the ability to add a lot of damage to characters like Snake and Fox, and his ability to gimp with Thunder off of a simple mistake is amazingly effective. His recovery is unmatched in speed and saftey, and all of his smashes are useful.

Pikachu is a well rounded character iwth several good matchups and very few bad matchups; the only disadvantage this character has is that he is more difficult to pick up than some of the more straight-forward characters. However, this also acts as a boon to the rodent because very few opponents will have serious pikachu practice.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

Hopefully with the SBR finally calming down recently, we'll have more time for these.


Everything after this post is general discussion.

 

[Deleted member]

pikachu is an ******* on lylat cruise.

 

[Percon]

Pika's Dsmash is a little overrated methinks...

But yeah, Pika has good matchups in a lot of places. Wonder why he isn't used more.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

About G&W........ he is definitly a big threat to pika if you are overly offensive. however, after watching anther, and then trying to emulate his syle, all of a sudden his threat level diminishes greatly. and it actually takes just 3 thundershocks to make an instakill bucket. but yeah Pikachu is definitly top tier material, if only people will look past the OMG DSMASH TSHOCK SPAMMY CAMPY NOOB CHARACTER and actually take the time to pick him up and try to really play with him.

Edit: and dsmash? how scary is it when you can di out and take like 5-6 damage, and are sent out in such a way that pika cant punish you? Usmash is NOT his best kill move. thunder and fsmash are his best killers, which can kill as low as 60, if you are near the edge.

 

[Kyari]

About G&W........ he is definitly a big threat to pika if you are overly offensive. however, after watching anther, and then trying to emulate his syle, all of a sudden his threat level diminishes greatly. and it actually takes just 3 thundershocks to make an instakill bucket. but yeah Pikachu is definitly top tier material, if only people will look past the OMG DSMASH TSHOCK SPAMMY CAMPY NOOB CHARACTER and actually take the time to pick him up and try to really play with him.

Edit: and dsmash? how scary is it when you can di out and take like 5-6 damage, and are sent out in such a way that pika cant punish you? Usmash is NOT his best kill move. thunder and fsmash are his best killers, which can kill as low as 60, if you are near the edge.

F-smash is a stronger move, but harder to connect with on a fast and smart opponent. U-smash is easier to use as a punishment move and if it doesn't kill, you can try to techchase with Thunder. So I think these facts make it more reliable, but it doesn't make F-smash a terrible move. F-smash's disjointed hitbox and range is enough to make it good.

Also yes, d-smash isn't that good, but sometimes it can be snuck in to where they don't DI. I agree it should not be used that much though.

 

[gallax]

pika's main weakness i believe is the light weight. combine this with predictable killmoves and you have yourself a hard to use character. if you have played a good G&W then you should know that his usmash can kill around 65%. that is really low to the kill percentage that pika usually needs to get to. other characteres such as snake/DDD need to get to high percentages to kill. snake can be gimped though so i will leave him out of the equation for now. most DDD kills(for me) come from an usmash>techchase thunder. hitting DDD with the cloud usually is a sure fire kill. but this is predictable. not only that you need to get DDD above 100% usually to kill. with his utilt/fsmash he can kill pika at 85% or even less. this means that pika will need to do 1.25x's more damage usually in a match than the other person would need to against pika to kill. this makes it much harder for pika to win a match since they rquire more damage to kill.

one mistake means could mean all the difference in this game. an accidental snake fsmash could hit you and destroy your chances. MK could catch you off the edge and shuttle loop you to your death after getting some dair's in. R.O.B. could spike you when trying to recover with your skullbash. marth could tipper you near the edge with a fsmash. falco could spike/usmash you. these are all top tier characters too which are used immensly in tourneys.

to be a good pika, you must have experience, patience, and most importantly, the knowledge and the skill to use pika properly. i have mained pika ever since the game came out and im still trying to improve my game. i find that i dont use my tilts as much as i should. not using my tilts have been diminishing my kill moves which have been making it much harder for me to kill. this is just an example though of my pika problems. other problems, for other players, include learning to set your opponent up for a nair/QAL/fsmash. it also means less spamming and more mindgames. it includes mastering your edgeguard techniques with thunder and nair.

if you get past these problems though you will find yourself at a very good position. pika is under used and underrated mostly. this is a HUGE advantage. pika has all the tools to win tourneys. all pika needs are the players willing to take the time to learn. willing to stick to him.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

Also yes, d-smash isn't that good, but sometimes it can be snuck in to where they don't DI. I agree it should not be used that much though.

True. i just hear nothing but omg his dsmash is so broken, and in my experience everyone i know online, and now offline DI out of it. I am not saying to not use it. it just isnt broken.

And galax pretty much hit everything.

 

[gallax]

to DI out of the dsmash properly just smash the control stick up along with your c-stick. or, if you are very good at DI'ing with pika's dsmash, you can even smash DI right/left depending on where the dsmash is taking you. almost completely useless against top tiers.

the one good thing about dsmash is that its great against lucario players who love to roll around and play mindgames. its like a big you suck when you catch them in it

 

[Kyari]

Dair is also a crazy good edgeguard move in a lot of situations against a lot of characters. Takes Snake out of Cypher. I've been able to do two successive dairs because of the trajectory it sends people, which almost always means death.

 

[MiraiGen]

I haven't had much chance to play Pikachu as he's not really my style, but I can't deny him. He's good. The disjointed hitbox Thunder gives continues to baffle me to this day.

I should go Pika him up and try him out.

*rimshot*

 

[Piman34]

My opinion is that pika can be good, just like any other character. he has alot of AT's that are necessary, as well as some psuedo combos, and mindgames, that make him a quality character. we have discussions about how to use certain things when, and such, so basically it's a prediction game. T-jolt is really good projectile, since its ability to follow stages and walls prevent alot of approachs...not to mention it does two different damages (w/o staling) depending on if it was released in the air or not. CG's certainly give Pika help against characters that...oh wait we don't really need help on. But then again there are the cg's that can increase percentages to allow our killings to go swift and sure. I see people bagging on the f-smash as a kill move, but I disagree, and when people say its hard to hit with on experienced / attentive players, the Pika just needs to learn to change up how it's used. For example, stutter stepping, or f-air FF'd to one, something that will kill from mid-high percentages is a must. Also, learning to do combat off the stage is vital since yeah our recovery is amazing, but it can also be anticipated pretty easily, seeing as most Pika players I know use skullbash before QA, which gets predicted and punished. Matchup-wise, I think Pika has the same troubles with higher tier characters that many choices do, just a different way of dealing with it. I just hope anther keeps giving Pikachu a good name, and others rise to the occasion as well since it is only what he deserves (pikachu that is)

 

[Binx]

You never need to use skull bash to recover... honestly if you were high up you probably dont even need your jump, this is brawl afterall, if your anywhere else quick attack does the job since obviously if your low you are not going to skull bash anyways. I find I have trouble getting the last hits with Pikachu, same trouble I have with Falco.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

F-smash is a stronger move, but harder to connect with on a fast and smart opponent.

Granted but you can land them during punishment for whiffed attacks after you trick them with QAC, f-air has practically no landing lag and I've gotten a lot of people just by jumping forward, f-air, DI backwards and land into a f-smash(however that's not THAT reliable because most people figure it out quickly enough, lulz when they don't. XD) and, I haven't played Pika much lately but, IIRC F-smash is JUST disjointed enough to hit them on ledge recovery before the lame magnet invincibility goes off.

 

[1170]

You never need to use skull bash to recover... honestly if you were high up you probably dont even need your jump, this is brawl afterall, if your anywhere else quick attack does the job since obviously if your low you are not going to skull bash anyways.

You may not need to use skull bash, but that doesn't mean it isn't useful. Use it to get a qac in if they're edgeguarding. You can also use it to get farther in after coming from offstage. It's also quite strong (although relatively easy to punish) making opponents think twice about jumping in front of it.

 

[highandmightyjoe]

I feel like Pika has a lot of potential. I am told that he has a strong match-up against Snake, but there aren't any good Snake's in my area so I'll just have to take people at there word on that one. But I do know that he devestates DeDeDe, so right there he has good match-ups against two of the top characters.

One area that I think Pikachu accels in that many people haven't been paying enough attention to is in dimenishing returns on attacks. The reason being that most of Pikachu's best KO moves are attacks that tend to still be fresh when it is time to try for a kill, also a chaingrab pretty much resets everything if you get about 4-5 throws in. Compare this to someone like Zamus whose best kill move, ForwardB, is also her main spacing tool so it is usually weak by the time you need it. As someone who plays both characters I have to tell you it feels good to know that you kill move will be ready when you need it.

 

[cj.Shark]

SamuraiPanda! What does the pokedex say about Anther's Pikachu Level?

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

*Looks at Pikachu

So that's where Peaches D-smash went.

Quoted for the the truth. It's ironic that when me and my mate heard Brawl was coming out, I told him I couldn't wait to screw his Pikachu again with Peach's D Smash

I think we can all agree that Pikachu has had some massive buffs. He's kept just about everything that made him decent (apart from his super cool Uair spike which I heard has gone) and he can still spam Thunder shocks to his hearts content to rack up good damage. His new D Smash is a beast if you don't DI out of it properly and Thunder is now an amazing finisher/edeguarder (although it was pretty good before)

Having said that, two of his killing moves, F Smash and Up Smash are much harder to land a killing blow IMO. For example, I've been killed by Pika's F Smash before at around 90% and then I've surivived getting hit by it by around 170%

I don't think Pikachu will ever be number 1 or really high ranked again but there is no denying that, in the right hands, he is a beast of a character

 

[gallax]

the problem with pika's fsmash is that to kill you need to sweetspot it, which means getting in close since the sweetspot is in the middle of the smash. unlike marth, the tip of the electric attack is very weak.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

He's kept just about everything that made him decent (apart from his super cool Uair spike which I heard has gone)

Yeah he lost it. It makes me SO sad cause it was one of the bases of my entire Pikachu game.

 

[massimo009]

im sad that pikas u-smash was nerfed. Before you could KO a person at 80 damage on the run.

 

[A2ZOMG]

G&W definitely has a very significant advantage on Pikachu as far as I know.

Pikachu can't aggressively spam against G&W. I'm not assuming G&W will get any Bucket kills honestly, but what's worse for Pikachu is that he's one of those characters that can be D-throw ->Smash attacked if he can't tech the D-throw. Also, G&W can cancel all of Pikachu's Smash attacks with a D-tilt if I recall. =O

Also, Pikachu's air game IMO is hindered significantly due to bad landing lag time.

 

[Kyari]

SamuraiPanda! What does the pokedex say about Anther's Pikachu Level?

I came across his Pikachu last weekend... he was at level 81 o_O My Pikachu was still at level 47....