Sonic-Rave
Smash Journeyman
What Espy said. Although I'm still having difficulties when it comes to consistently doing it during a match. If I try to force myself to use it, I end up dropping into some nasty punishment. :l
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We ought to look at some things.
- Thread starter Kinzer
- Start date
Sonic-Rave
Smash Journeyman
My avi speaks for my response I believe.... :l
Sonic-Rave
Smash Journeyman
That is lulzy as hell.
I like it.
I like it.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
its hard as balls dude, I spent a half hour working on it in training mode. and didnt get it once.
ASC platform drop through. I thought it was pretty good, you know how we are, cant get enough of them acronyms.
tesh: furthering the sonic metagame, one spindash at a time.
Oh, that's cool.
I noticed some weird quick platform dropping when I was practicing ASC/Spinshot/SD platform cancels on Smashville.
I thought it was a quirky buffer input that was specific to moving platforms. Nice to see it kinda working on BF.
Edit:
lol
Edit 2:
I noticed some weird quick platform dropping when I was practicing ASC/Spinshot/SD platform cancels on Smashville.
I thought it was a quirky buffer input that was specific to moving platforms. Nice to see it kinda working on BF.
Edit:
lol
Specifically, I (accidentally) did the side-B > platform cancel > buffered drop > repeat a few times (highlighted).
Edit 2:
..which is... that^^^ except with side-B in between lol
Joemama8
Smash Journeyman
OMG TESH I LOVE THIS. i just firgured it out holllllly ****. added to my game. sooooooooo added to my game. this is fun haha!
Sonic Orochi
Smash Ace
Add the insta-dair platform cancel to the list. :D
A bit of help on platforms.
Double post, I don't quite understand the airdodge cancel >B. I don't see the shield come up and I don't see a drop down animation. I also am 100% certain I only pressed shield once so it can't be a shield drop down airdodge (which would require Z twice). So >B can pull you off of platforms after you shield cancel it. This might mean you can reverse over B and drop off of platforms facing backwards. Perhaps low edgeguarding with back air's disjoint.
Double post, I don't quite understand the airdodge cancel >B. I don't see the shield come up and I don't see a drop down animation. I also am 100% certain I only pressed shield once so it can't be a shield drop down airdodge (which would require Z twice). So >B can pull you off of platforms after you shield cancel it. This might mean you can reverse over B and drop off of platforms facing backwards. Perhaps low edgeguarding with back air's disjoint.
B.A.M.
Smash Lord
^^^^ this man should take over the thread. Hurray for the successor of Tenki. Now go do the GR> fsmash on the edge we have on meta on rainbow cruise ( if we were marth).
Kinzer
Mammy
:X
Well, be glad my teachers decided to extend the week, so I pretty much have no classwork for this week.
I'm going to update this thread right now as/if you happen to be reading this post. I'll edit it once I have all the stuff in the OP, hopefully it will be explained but I'll leave a disclaimer if it's still in the works.\
Edit: Updated (about time too!)
There's also a new segment for people to look into. Clearly I'm not going to be able to explain everything by myself, and apparently neither can Tesh, who so far has been the best contributor to this thread. Anybody who has a bit of time/knowledge on their hands is highly encouraged to look through the new segment.
People should start using Side B shield cancel to change directions before they land, it can help you land grabs, shield 2-4 frames sooner due to the lagless landing. It happens lightning fast so it can be tossed in when nothing else can.
SH fair cross up and spin around and land laglessly into your shield and grab. Cuts off the landing lag and the pivot animation.
Anyway sonic doesn't have the best options for landing and anything to throw someone off helps. That spinning sound might even get someone to shield or react as they would to a last second nair.
SH fair cross up and spin around and land laglessly into your shield and grab. Cuts off the landing lag and the pivot animation.
Anyway sonic doesn't have the best options for landing and anything to throw someone off helps. That spinning sound might even get someone to shield or react as they would to a last second nair.
B.A.M.
Smash Lord
^^^^ sorry tesh ive been doing that. and yes it works quite well. especially due to the facts you mentioned.
So okay I just realized that we can (just like snake) grab DIRECTLY out of side b. Im sure ppl have already known this and im just a noob ( that explains what tesh was previously talking about regarding the side b to AD). I dont know what that necessarily does for us ( because u have to wait a tad bit until you can do so) but its interesting to spot patterns in particular movesets as it gives us ideas as to what we are capable of.
Now im sure every1 knows we have a quite a bit of grab releases, however due to our height we never get the chance to do them. So i was messing around and i realized that Yoshi's is freakin awesome vs. Wario and Squirtle especially as we can do our GR shenanigans with more leeway due to the odd corner ( Yoshi has got some mad love for sonic) as well as the platform corner as well as the platform when its completely diagonal.
Now this is where it becomes super fun. Delphino has like a bazillion places where we can Grab release! From the stairs where we can GR< fair or GR CG Meta, to the slanted platform with a grab release < fair again, and even the sand. Why does this matter? because although it is SDI able, GR< fair at certain areas can be a kill move. a safe kill move. Kinda nice. Wish we could be amazing like Marth and get a GR<fsmash. Now that would be amazing.
EDIT: Btw, Tesh. Ive been doing the tech a ton more easily with ur suggestions. Just a couple more questions:
Do I let go of b and hold z while im doing the reverse hadouken?
Do i do each input as fast as possible?
So okay I just realized that we can (just like snake) grab DIRECTLY out of side b. Im sure ppl have already known this and im just a noob ( that explains what tesh was previously talking about regarding the side b to AD). I dont know what that necessarily does for us ( because u have to wait a tad bit until you can do so) but its interesting to spot patterns in particular movesets as it gives us ideas as to what we are capable of.
Now im sure every1 knows we have a quite a bit of grab releases, however due to our height we never get the chance to do them. So i was messing around and i realized that Yoshi's is freakin awesome vs. Wario and Squirtle especially as we can do our GR shenanigans with more leeway due to the odd corner ( Yoshi has got some mad love for sonic) as well as the platform corner as well as the platform when its completely diagonal.
Now this is where it becomes super fun. Delphino has like a bazillion places where we can Grab release! From the stairs where we can GR< fair or GR CG Meta, to the slanted platform with a grab release < fair again, and even the sand. Why does this matter? because although it is SDI able, GR< fair at certain areas can be a kill move. a safe kill move. Kinda nice. Wish we could be amazing like Marth and get a GR<fsmash. Now that would be amazing.
EDIT: Btw, Tesh. Ive been doing the tech a ton more easily with ur suggestions. Just a couple more questions:
Do I let go of b and hold z while im doing the reverse hadouken?
Do i do each input as fast as possible?
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
Grab release to BDACUS on metaknight.
B.A.M.
Smash Lord
............. which equates to BDacus. lol why not buffer it so you get the proper input every time? BDacus is easy. why waste frames? but yes obviously all those work too. Guaranteed air releases bring joy to my heart
On wiichuck you can set a command for pressing A+B. So when I run and do a >B I can just press A and sonic will do a standing grab while sliding back a little bit. Helps me land grabs more precisely since I accidentally dash grab otherwise.
So many awesome things on yoshis island. Like spindashing from the ledge with your double jump intact.
Too bad people already banned that stage against us.
You don't have to let go of B after you do the <B unless you want to drop down into another B move (like RASC 47s into the first video). You only have to hold shield until you drop down, then you can let go and press it again if you want to do a drop down airdodge.
You don't HAVE to input everything as fast as possible but if you slow it down too much, you might as well use slower methods of dropping down. Like screech stopping, then dropping down. Just when you press B, you should press Z at the same time (almost) and then slide the control stick down. I can do all of this in about 10 frames I believe, but if it took 30 frames it would be pointless.
Also.....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJoaDSC88Qo
This apparently takes a little bit longer to do, but doesn't matter much. I just though it was really cool to run forward and immediately pivot into a back air. So you can use it against someone that isn't quite under the platform.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=287133
How come I can't get that to work with Sonic? I know I'm doing it wrong because I can't get it to work with Snake either. Help me out here?
'
How come I can't get that to work with Sonic? I know I'm doing it wrong because I can't get it to work with Snake either. Help me out here?
'
B.A.M.
Smash Lord
its weird, sometimes pivot grab makes the difference. i have gotten an fsmash though. even with ZSS i got a virtually wario like GR on MK and if im not mistaken it doesnt change per character.
@Espy, i have no clue what you are talking about. Buffered regular Dacus is Bdacus. Any buffered dacus is bdacus. otherwise its not truly buffered. Besides its not that hard to learn i mean if you already know how to ur buffer windows on a move u can do it. I always Dacus c stick down then cstick up so i just do the same within the buffer window and viola! Bdacus. Im not saying its crazy groundbreaking but there is definitely more use out of our usmash than we have assumed. In all serious though just knowing regular Dacus is awesome enough because it makes it exponentially easier to straight up WALK away from nado then punish. Its just another awesome tool for us to have at mid range coupled with DA, side b shenanigans, ASC, and dash> SDR ( no screech stop).
Tesh go find some other legendary techs so that we can all benefit. Like a SDR cancel on flat ground.
@Espy, i have no clue what you are talking about. Buffered regular Dacus is Bdacus. Any buffered dacus is bdacus. otherwise its not truly buffered. Besides its not that hard to learn i mean if you already know how to ur buffer windows on a move u can do it. I always Dacus c stick down then cstick up so i just do the same within the buffer window and viola! Bdacus. Im not saying its crazy groundbreaking but there is definitely more use out of our usmash than we have assumed. In all serious though just knowing regular Dacus is awesome enough because it makes it exponentially easier to straight up WALK away from nado then punish. Its just another awesome tool for us to have at mid range coupled with DA, side b shenanigans, ASC, and dash> SDR ( no screech stop).
Tesh go find some other legendary techs so that we can all benefit. Like a SDR cancel on flat ground.
I'm saying that in practice, the DACUS and BDACUS have different methods of use.
The iDA + cstick up method that I'm aware of for BDACUS is much more complicated than simply buffering a DACUS with dash + cstick down + Z + up on the control stick.
It also has a smaller window of error than the BDACUS method.
They both accomplish the same thing, but the method for the BDACUS is unnecessarily difficult for someone to pick up if they can just do the regular DACUS method.
Whatever though.
The iDA + cstick up method that I'm aware of for BDACUS is much more complicated than simply buffering a DACUS with dash + cstick down + Z + up on the control stick.
It also has a smaller window of error than the BDACUS method.
They both accomplish the same thing, but the method for the BDACUS is unnecessarily difficult for someone to pick up if they can just do the regular DACUS method.
Whatever though.
Dang I really think I need a vid to show me how this is done. Can you upload a replay of it or something for me? I did it with my back facing right, on the upper area of the stage and nothing. It looks the same to me actually.
Trade knowledge? I'll teach you how to SD against Diddy Kong
Sonic-Rave
Smash Journeyman
Lolwut @ that vid. Will that only happen if you throw the item down? Or does it not matter which direction you throw the item?
I'm pretty sure if you cancel the landing animation with an item toss it just happens, but in the long long time I have known about this, I NEVER tried to throw it in any other direction. Which is odd, because throwing it left or right might be useful. Bout to check right now.....
Edit : Yup it happens the same with left, right and up item tosses. In fact I actually noticed the same thing happens if you shoot a ray gun item while landing. So let this be a warning to casual players as well.
Edit 2: If you continue to cancel your landing animation with an item toss/ray shot the glitch will recur until you land normally.
Edit : Yup it happens the same with left, right and up item tosses. In fact I actually noticed the same thing happens if you shoot a ray gun item while landing. So let this be a warning to casual players as well.
Edit 2: If you continue to cancel your landing animation with an item toss/ray shot the glitch will recur until you land normally.
Kinzer
Mammy
Oey, putting these here before they get lost forever:
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=11345588&postcount=9259
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=11345739&postcount=9261
... I'll put them in the OP in the future. Someday, eventually, just too lazy right now~... Sorry~...
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=11345588&postcount=9259
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=11345739&postcount=9261
... I'll put them in the OP in the future. Someday, eventually, just too lazy right now~... Sorry~...
SuSa
Banned via Administration
In theory: Yes.
In practice:
Stupidly high amount of tech skill would be needed.
In practice:
Stupidly high amount of tech skill would be needed.
SuSa
Banned via Administration
Have the sonic boards ever thought about doing this?
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=11362241&postcount=1
Now that frame data threads are more abundant and complete, finding your best options from block and finding your options in general to allow mixups can be pretty neat.
Of course, my data is wrong by a frame or two here and there [from what I can tell] and it's only frame data, some moves may be outreached and thus not viable at the maximum spacing - but I expect if you're going to learn this data, you know the reach of your own moves...
So yeah....
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=11362241&postcount=1
Now that frame data threads are more abundant and complete, finding your best options from block and finding your options in general to allow mixups can be pretty neat.
Of course, my data is wrong by a frame or two here and there [from what I can tell] and it's only frame data, some moves may be outreached and thus not viable at the maximum spacing - but I expect if you're going to learn this data, you know the reach of your own moves...
So yeah....
Kinzer
Mammy
I've been contemplating when I wanted to gather this kind of data. As you may see from our various guides (we really are disorganized...), I've gathered most, if not all of the frame data for Sonic that doesn't concern raw figures (Forward Tilt comes out on frame 6, ends on X frame (I don't know by heart), et cetera). Right now, I'm working on getting the stuff for dash attack, I've been stuck for a while but hopefully I can pick it up again and release some new data, because that move apparently has combo potential.Have the sonic boards ever thought about doing this?
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=11362241&postcount=1
Now that frame data threads are more abundant and complete, finding your best options from block and finding your options in general to allow mixups can be pretty neat.
Of course, my data is wrong by a frame or two here and there [from what I can tell] and it's only frame data, some moves may be outreached and thus not viable at the maximum spacing - but I expect if you're going to learn this data, you know the reach of your own moves...
So yeah....
It's certainly no frame-trap on block though, that much I've found out...
At this rate, to get a complete break-down of Sonic, it may take me a couple of years. It took me days/week to get down throw tech frame data, and the only reason dash attack is taking me so long is because I got/get frustrated, temporarily push it back until I find the motivation to get the data again, and whenever I'm just not too lazy. (Thank goodness I got admitted into the smash lab, now I know what I was doing wrong and why I got stuck.)
I'm not sure if anybody else besides me is going to gather that kind of data, so it could be a long while before I find it.
I know Goggles is wanting somebody to look at DTilt, and I don't blame him, that move does have some pretty promising attributes.
Edit: Not even my school's computer is safe from
B.A.M.
Smash Lord
we dont get a free grab on a buffered dash grab espy? Dang that makes me sad. At least i know now it was just me being too slow sometimes.
@Susa: Ive spoken about the need of actually applying our frame data in this manner (which is status quo in other fighters) but noone seems to care. However it is alot of work so i understand every1s reasonings. However if we are to better Sonic as a whole i believe that requires knowing such information. It would remove alot of 'foolish' punishes that have a low chance of success, allow the community a better understanding of where openings lie ( which is amazing for sonic because we follow up so well) , and knowing where to place kill moves ( the savior of sonic right here).
We need to get that done. Im glad Espy is dropping knowledge about ledge abuse, I dont know why people always forget how that destroys dumb vertical recoveries. However most importantly, Espy did it with some frame data, bringing validation and practicality to these techs.
Hurray for Espy and K prime.
I mean the Japanese do this stuff all day, why the hell dont we. I mean we JUST learned ASC PDT, a year old technique from FREAKIN JAPAN, WHO DONT EVEN PLAY SONIC. We are seriously too slow.
@KID we still need to put out data for dash attack, that stuff needs to be implemented; for real. And im still laughing at the fact u didnt know sh fair> first hit uair. Why? because i learned to place that into my game by ur so called favorite Sonic Combo Video and the source of ur spring trap love. Lol step it up.
@Susa: Ive spoken about the need of actually applying our frame data in this manner (which is status quo in other fighters) but noone seems to care. However it is alot of work so i understand every1s reasonings. However if we are to better Sonic as a whole i believe that requires knowing such information. It would remove alot of 'foolish' punishes that have a low chance of success, allow the community a better understanding of where openings lie ( which is amazing for sonic because we follow up so well) , and knowing where to place kill moves ( the savior of sonic right here).
We need to get that done. Im glad Espy is dropping knowledge about ledge abuse, I dont know why people always forget how that destroys dumb vertical recoveries. However most importantly, Espy did it with some frame data, bringing validation and practicality to these techs.
Hurray for Espy and K prime.
I mean the Japanese do this stuff all day, why the hell dont we. I mean we JUST learned ASC PDT, a year old technique from FREAKIN JAPAN, WHO DONT EVEN PLAY SONIC. We are seriously too slow.
@KID we still need to put out data for dash attack, that stuff needs to be implemented; for real. And im still laughing at the fact u didnt know sh fair> first hit uair. Why? because i learned to place that into my game by ur so called favorite Sonic Combo Video and the source of ur spring trap love. Lol step it up.