We need Wavedashing, we must take action to assure it

[thesage]

Translation: exploitable holes.

So you're saying that you'd rather have a shallower game?

 

[Pookiez]

at page 43 we might be at a higher stage that you mentioned... or is this thread already closed? O_o

 

[NES n00b]

So you're saying that you'd rather have a shallower game?

Yes, and the other guy. . . we know it isn't in but we don't have to agree with it.

OMGz, people might not like a decision. . . .boo ho. Not everyone shares opinions.

 

[Stak]

So you're saying that you'd rather have a shallower game?

Glitches != depth

 

[Team Giza]

M2k, ARE YOU OKAY!?

You, more than anyone, should know we don't need wavedashing. You learned tons of new stuff in melee and really evolved the game. You should have more confidence in your abilities to involve Brawl into a game just as competitive as melee was. You can do it. Now.... STFU.

 

[Pluvia's other account]

This Ink dropping thing was discovered on the first day. That means that it's not hard to find. And due to the fact that it already has input animation, it must be a normal technique.

We'll most likely get an update about it, just with it's original name.

 

[thesage]

at page 43 we might be at a higher stage that you mentioned... or is this thread already closed? O_o

I view at 40 post per page so I forgot... lolz....

@Nes Noob: I don't understand your views at all you change sides soooo much... lolz. I don't care just decide. First you agreed with M2K (or at least I thought you did, and now you don't...). Why would you want a shallower game?

 

[NES n00b]

Glitches != depth

Glitches are usually adapted into something that the developer recognizes if it brings depth.

Sakurai is the opposite apparently due to this decision. SO yeah. . .learn the history of fighting games.

Edit: I don't want a shallower game. What are you talking about? I would like wavedashing to be in but it isn't. . . .

Edit: Oh yeah, I meant yes for him. XD lol

 

[Terrorcon Blot]

Glitches are usually adapted into something that the developer recognizes if it brings depth.

Sakurai is the opposite apparently due to this decision. SO yeah. . .learn the history of fighting games.

Edit: I don't want a shallower game. What are you talking about? I would like wavedashing to be in but it isn't. . . .

Glitches are also usually something that wasn't intended by the team when they developed the game.

Unless those "Beat Mario 64 with one star" tool assisted runs are the REAL way to play Mario 64 and I was just doing it wrong.

 

[CT Chia]

I can't imagine playing Brawl without Wavedashing, especially because the better I get, the more I apply and use Wavedashing, instinctively even, and there's a LOT of depth that can be unfolded with Wavedashing still in.

Why should things such as Bowser's Flame Cancel be in Brawl while Wavedashing isn't????

We need this back, we need to all write to Nintendo/Sakurai and tell him that what he's doing is a BIG mistake that needs to be fixed.

I can't believe I'm reading this... I thought it was a joke at first. The fact that you are actually serious about making a petition is just sad (and where is that petition btw?). Sure I was a little "wtf?" on finding out that there was no wavedashing, but when I think about it, I don't care. Only a couple people have played a demo, which was only 2 min time matches with items btw, and we already found 2 adv techs, the ink drop and hugging. We just have to work at finding new advanced techniques, after all, thats what makes it a new game. You, being what I consider the best player in the world, should be glad a new game is coming out and you should embrace a fresh experience and work to find as many adv techs as u can. You made fox what he is in Melee, now do the same for new characters in Brawl.

I've been practicing my wavedashing application for a while now (not as long as you though, and I'm obviously no where near as good), but I'm not about to throw it all away. Just the experience with the core game of "smash" helps us going to Brawl. Why does GimpyFish declare himself the current best Brawl player? Because he had a ton of experience from Melee. If all experience went to waste then any other n00b who dosn't know that pressing the 1 button activates a final smash would have just as much of a chance as he did.

Everyone who has played Brawl so far has said it's fun and awesome, and that's what matters. We obviously know enough at this point that it will be an awesome tournament game, as at it's base it's still the same game as 64 and Melee, but now with new enhancements and things like online mode. If you think it won't be fun and that it will be bad without any wavedashing, then you shouldn't be entering in these Smash 64 tournaments.

I don't mean to come off as angry or anything, but I guess I'm just trying to let the entire smash community know that we should try and make Brawl the best game it can possibly be (atleast that's my opinion). This dosn't mean no tournament style play, as that is one of the best aspects of fun in Melee IMO. Let's have fun finding new techniques, trying new characters, playing new stages, and wreck some people with Final Smashes.

It's obviously too late in development to add wavedashing, so let's just mourn over the loss and by the time Brawl comes out, be ready to find a whole new way to play Smash. No johns.

 

[NES n00b]

Glitches are also usually something that wasn't intended by the team when they developed the game.

Unless those "Beat Mario 64 with one star" tool assisted runs are the REAL way to play Mario 64 and I was just doing it wrong.

Fighting games for one thing and snaking for another.

Edit: Though I guess snaking is really an exploit but whatever.

 

[PyrasTerran]

So you're saying that you'd rather have a shallower game?

Is wavedashing so important to you people that Brawl is shallow without it??

No, I'm saying I'd rather have INTENTIONAL advanced techniques than unintentional ones. We now have footstool jumping and moving after air-dodging. I say it's a fair trade, especially since the latter techniques AREN'T accidents.

There really isn't much that separates wavedashing from the Ice Climber freeze glitch other than that one is acceptable in competition. They're both still unintentiona mishaps of gaming design.

Besides, replacements for wavedashing like ink dropping have apparently surfaced.

 

[Terrorcon Blot]

Fine. Guilty Gear X2 had a glitch with Slayer. His command throw made a character stunned. But he could do ANOTHER with no damage penalty before ANY foe (CPU at max level or human) could even hope to wiggle free. He can use this throw over and over because of this glitch.

Come Guilty Gear X2 Reload, the move loses the stun effect. He no longer can do it as a loop.

 

[dtams]

Actually most of the AT's aren't needed. Most people enjoy and play Smash without using or knowing about those things. Those things only matter in heavy competition. Most of the AT's have actually been lost than reported. They just made it easier to do some things that took more skill to do, which does not make the Tactics Advanced... If you still want to use those Tactics Melee is always available.

 

[Fizz-sama]

Cope and deal.

 

[NES n00b]

reading comprehension problems

He said shallower not the game will be shallow.

Edit: That doesn't add depth at all. . . that is why it would be taken out.

 

[Xanskarr]

send them this picture and threaten them to put wavedashing back in

 

[Red Exodus]

As much as I would love to see WD in Brawl I don't think there is anything we can do, I've accepted the loss but I still plan to play Melee even if I get Brawl.

The only way I won't play melee is if I play Brawl competitively.

 

[Team Giza]

Here is my 2 cents.

1.) Wavedash = Tool,
2.) Tool = More options
3.) More options = Deeper game
4.) Deeper game = more competitive.

Actually there is a problem here. More options does not always lead to a deeper game. If there are too many options than it can degenerate to a guessing game. If there are too many opinions from one opening it can actually really run the progression of a match and make it stale.

More options =/= Deeper game.

 

[PyrasTerran]

semantics comprehension problems

How is the meaning lost exactly by what he or I said? It doesn't matter how you interpreted it, the message is still the same: "wavedashing takes away from Smash's depth". This is simply a fallacy.

 

[LavisFiend]

Making a petition asking for "wavedashing" to be brought back into Brawl will only make Sakurai crumple it and throw it over his shoulder...

...Why?

Cause in all honesty, he dosen't know what the **** you are talking about, plain and simple.

 

[NES n00b]

How is the meaning lost exactly by what he or I said? It doesn't matter how you interpreted it, the message is still the same: "wavedashing takes away from Smash's depth". This is simply a fallacy.

How doesn't it? It wasn't broken. Every character can do it. You could do lots of things you couldn't with it.

This is a new game and there will be new techs, maybe more useful and deep ones, but taking away things that added depth does not make the game more deep. Therefore, it means. . . . . .blank

 

[Red Exodus]

@ terran: He never said WDing takes away from smash's depth, wtf are you reading?

 

[PyrasTerran]

How doesn't it? It wasn't broken. Every character can do it. You could do lots of things you couldn't with it.

Glitches don't have to be character specific or even malignant to the one using it.

This is a new game and there will be new techs, maybe more useful and deep ones, but taking away things that added depth does not make the game more deep. Therefore, it means. . . . . .blank

I guess the problem here is that I don't see wavedashing as adding depth. It doesn't take a strategic master to master wavedashing, it's almost like a "cheat" for more effective fighting than the game developers planned.

Making a petition asking for "wavedashing" to be brought back into Brawl will only make Sakurai crumple it and throw it over his shoulder...

...Why?

Cause in all honesty, he dosen't know what the **** you are talking about, plain and simple.

That's the bottom line.

@ terran: He never said WDing takes away from smash's depth, wtf are you reading?

WTF are you reading? I never said that he said that WDing takes away from smash's depth, HE said that TAKING WD AWAY, takes away from Smash's depth.

 

[Jihnsius]

Wavedashing isn't a glitch, it's an oversight. A glitch is a bug in the code that produces effects other than intended, and wavedashing is simply exploiting what the code is intended to do. The HAL development staff didn't notice it, and that's why it wasn't removed. Now that it has been noticed, they've taken steps to prevent it to help balance the game on all levels. If you don't like how they develop the game, don't play it, it's as simple as that.

 

[NES n00b]

I guess the problem here is that I don't see wavedashing as adding depth. It doesn't take a strategic master to master wavedashing, it's almost like a "cheat" for more effective fighting than the game developers planned.

What do you mean? It is not the best solution (it is not even the best for most) for every problem and it is not useless. Therefore it adds depth to the game.

Edit: Wavedashing is a by product of what was intended therefore it is an exploit, but let's not turn this into a battle of rhetoric.

 

[PilotEvan]

If wavedashing wasn't in Melee, you wouldn't have complaints. Then again, there could always be something for wavedash fanatics to nit-pick about. New game, new rules. You won't be crying when you get your hands on the game, and if you do, you need to get your priorities straight and stop seeing the game as being based upon airdodging towards the ground.

 

[Emblem Lord]

You guys think he doesn't know what wavedashing was?

Yeah, that's right.

Considering the fact that Nintendo power magazine did several articles on smashboards and advanced techs.

They also interviewed Gideon the creator of smashboards.

And if he didn't know what wavedashing was why alter the airdodge and how it is done?

Idiots.

 

[thesage]

I guess the problem here is that I don't see wavedashing as adding depth. It doesn't take a strategic master to master wavedashing, it's almost like a "cheat" for more effective fighting than the game developers planned.

This shows how much you actually know about WD'ing...

I'm not complaining that it's not in or anything, but please at least learn more what your arguing about. Obviously if it didn't add so much to the tournament scene, there wouldn't be such a commotion about it.

Edit: And like I've said before, if WD'ing wasn't in melee, then everyone would use this technique called pivoting. Pivot is much harder to do than WD. Pivoting is in Brawl now instead of WD. I think Sakurai is trying to be as neutral as possible by pleasing nobody... lolz...

 

[Jihnsius]

Sakurai himself discovered wavedashing, but they were already on version 02 and didn't want to do any more recalls at that point.

 

[NES n00b]

If wavedashing wasn't in Melee, you wouldn't have complaints. Then again, there could always be something for wavedash fanatics to nit-pick about. New game, new rules. You won't be crying when you get your hands on the game, and if you do, you need to get your priorities straight and stop seeing the game as being based upon airdodging towards the ground.

If there wasn't anything we wouldn't complain. . . . . .that point is moot.

I am not a wavedash fanatic and nor would I just spam places saying wah wah wavedash but the sheer ignorance of people and saying taking out wavedashing is a good thing is wrong. . . .all these arguements are really done. . . .

No one thinks the game is being air dodged towards the ground. No strawmens. No bull **** arguements. It was useful, taking away the strat is a non win situation for anyone get over youself.

 

[PyrasTerran]

Wavedashing isn't a glitch, it's an oversight. A glitch is a bug in the code that produces effects other than intended, and wavedashing is simply exploiting what the code is intended to do. The HAL development staff didn't notice it, and that's why it wasn't removed. Now that it has been noticed, they've taken steps to prevent it to help balance the game on all levels. If you don't like how they develop the game, don't play it, it's as simple as that.

Ah, you are correct sir. My fault for being lazy and calling it a glitch.

What do you mean? It is not the best solution (it is not even the best for most) for every problem and it is not useless. Therefore it adds depth to the game.

It's pretty useless unless you mean to win by any means necessary, really. That is just how I see it.

You guys think he doesn't know what wavedashing was?

Yeah, that's right.

Considering the fact that Nintendo power magazine did several articles on smashboards and advanced techs.

They also interviewed Gideon the creator of smashboards.

And if he didn't know what wavedashing was why alter the airdodge and how it is done?

Idiots.

Why idiots?

How many people even knew Sakurai reads the US-based Nintendo Power monthly?

This shows how much you actually know about WD'ing...

I'm not complaining that it's not in or anything, but please at least learn more what your arguing about. Obviously if it didn't add so much to the tournament scene, there wouldn't be such a commotion about it.

This shows how much you actually paid attention to what I said.

I never said it is useless in the competitive tournament scene.

Sakurai himself discovered wavedashing, but they were already on version 02 and didn't want to do any more recalls at that point.

Alright.

 

[Jihnsius]

They're not taking the strategy away. The strategy has never existed in Brawl. They're not removing anything from the game that you haven't seen yet. If you want to wavedash or triangle jump, go play Melee or MvC2.

I could just as easily argue that Tekken 6 will suck because they're not adding in dash dancing. They're completely different games, just as Melee is completely different from Brawl. Same concept, perhaps, but completely different.

 

[thesage]

It was useful, taking away the strat is a non win situation for anyone get over youself.

QFT.

But, it was a NON win for the penguin that died everytime somebody WD...

 

[x4FoSho4x]

Really people. IT'S OUT. Deal with it instead of being little babies about it. You ever think that Sakurai meant to take it out? SSB64 works as a competitive game without WDing. Just stop your *****ing and live with it rather then being a bunch of whiny brats.

SHUT THE **** UP

We can at least try

 

[thesage]

It's pretty useless unless you mean to win by any means necessary, really. That is just how I see it.

WTFBBQSAUCE. You mean like tournament players?

@x4FoSho4x: I know you're a tourney player but is that directed at me or Smashchu?

 

[NES n00b]

It's pretty useless unless you mean to win by any means necessary, really. That is just how I see it.

You don't know what it is for do you? Tell me what it is used for, all or most. Then I would listen to your points about how taking it away will add to the game (for Brawl or Melee doesn't matter). If you do those two, maybe your points would be more valid.

 

[Emblem Lord]

4sho: Everytime you post I want to c*nt punt a new born baby girl.

 

[LavisFiend]

Making a petition asking for "wavedashing" to be brought back into Brawl will only make Sakurai crumple it and throw it over his shoulder...

...Why?

Cause in all honesty, he dosen't know what the **** you are talking about, plain and simple.

[/end emphasis]

 

[Emblem Lord]

I reiterate.

Idiots.