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Watching The World Burn: Zard Video Thread! [9.29.15]
- Thread starter LavaLatte
- Start date
Yomi-no-Kuni
Smash Lord
Do you think his Glide is OP, or its too bad?
metroid1117
Smash Master
I think his glide may need some toning down, but only time will tell.
G13_Flux
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2013
- Messages
- 1,076
i think its useful but at least in my experience, i havent noticed it being OP. its not central to his gameplay like pits is. in 2.1 i thought it was relatively useful for a glide, other than landing the awesome glide attack. i thought the 2.5 tweaks that gave it more mobility really helped when it came to controlling charizards air game without giving him some form of broken tactic. if we conside charizards to be a bit overpowered, wouldnt pits be considered legitimately broken then?
metroid1117
Smash Master
No offense, but I don't really want to continue this discussion in a video thread; we've been getting pretty far off-topic. I'd be willing to continue it if you moved it to the general discussion or something though.
metroid1117
Smash Master
Don't worry about it, it's no big deal
.Anyway, here are some doubles matches from Saturday. The format was round-robin between the 5 teams, then a GF set between the two teams with the best records (2nd seed coming from Loser's side, 1st seed coming from Winner's side).
Vro + DSF (Ike +Falco) vs Sago + metroid (Snake + Charizard)
Kirk + Scythe (Bowser + Ganon) vs metroid + Sago (Charizard + Snake)
metroid + Sago (Charizard + Snake) vs Rat + Oro (Wolf + Link)
metroid + Sago (Charizard + Snake) vs ORLY?! + Kels (Fox + Sheik/Falco/Fox)
GF 1 - Kirk + Scythe (Bowser + Ganon) vs Sago + metroid (Marth + Charizard)
GF 2 - Kirk + Scythe (Bowser/ZSS + Ganon) vs Sago + metroid (Marth + Charizard)
Zivilyn Bane
Smash Master
Definitely looking forward to some feedback now that I have some tournament vids uploaded. So please comment and critique
Zivilyn Bane vs Fishburne (Ness) 2
Zivilyn Bane vs King Siegfried (Falcon Marth Peach)
Zivilyn Bane vs Fishburne (Ness) 1
EDIT: Rearranged in order from top to bottom in which I would like the feedback in.
Zivilyn Bane vs Fishburne (Ness) 2
Zivilyn Bane vs King Siegfried (Falcon Marth Peach)
Zivilyn Bane vs Fishburne (Ness) 1
EDIT: Rearranged in order from top to bottom in which I would like the feedback in.
metroid1117
Smash Master
Zivilyn, I'm just posting to let you know that I've noticed your videos have been up since Tuesday, but I haven't had the time to look over them nor update the thread. Sorry about that - I'll try getting both your critique and the thread updated by tonight.
Yomi-no-Kuni
Smash Lord
Notes i did while watching your first two vids ZivilinBane:
When you've launched the opponent directly in front of you you often shuffle weak nairs. Why not go for an upsmash instead of weak nairs?
like your nair shuffl speed!
remember to cancel glides before hitting the ground. you may even be able to waveland (i suck at glide cancel stuff, don't know how usefull that is)
using downB-jump to waveland on platforms is awesome on YS/BF, didn't see you do it.
Your edguards vs ness need to hit. try weak fairs and dropping forwardBs.
don't really know anything about P:M ness :/
When you've launched the opponent directly in front of you you often shuffle weak nairs. Why not go for an upsmash instead of weak nairs?
like your nair shuffl speed!
remember to cancel glides before hitting the ground. you may even be able to waveland (i suck at glide cancel stuff, don't know how usefull that is)
using downB-jump to waveland on platforms is awesome on YS/BF, didn't see you do it.
Your edguards vs ness need to hit. try weak fairs and dropping forwardBs.
don't really know anything about P:M ness :/
metroid1117
Smash Master
Sorry for the delay, but I finally got around to watching your first set against Fishburne. I think you had two main things in this set that prevented you from winning:
1) You didn't really figure out how to edgeguard PKT1 (before he hits himself) or PKT2 (when he hits himself and travels). A lot of the times, it seemed like he was getting back for free. I haven't played a good Ness:M before, but my first instinct for PKT2 would be to go for reverse NAirs; it's disjointed enough that you're safe from PKT2 and it also sweeps through the edge. If you space it properly, you can also try punishing his landing by DSmashing where he will land. Alternatively, you can go out and try spacing yourself so that you're just out of range from FAir while covering Ness' double-jump; this way, when he tries to PKT1, you're right there and can easily hit him. Using Fly to set yourself up might be pretty good for this, since you would be coming from above Ness and be safe from PK Fire while covering his double-jump.
2) You could've made more optimal decisions when it came to comboing. I can go back and cite some specific examples if you want, but a lot of the times when you used BThrow, you were never really able to profit from it because you sometimes either waited for a reaction or went for a NAir. Reverse NAir might've worked since it comes out on frame 4, but a more consistent follow-up to BThrow when the DI up is FAir. In general, I feel like you could've used FAir more, both for killing and for comboing; weak FAir is an awesome combo tool if you catch your opponents DI'ing up and sweetspotted FAir is an incredibly meaty punish and combo finisher. While you did some cool things with shffl'd weak NAirs, they aren't particularly powerful unless you follow up with something more substantial and, because you're relying on the front hitbox of NAir, they may be able to escape between NAirs. You can try ending NAir combos with more FAirs and continuing combos out of weak NAir with jab.
As for vertical combos, I didn't see a lot of Fly; most of the times when your opponent was sent above you to roughly the level of the top platforms, you opted for double-jump UAir instead of Fly -> rising UAir. Fly -> rising UAir is a better option, especially if you hit with the sweetspot, because the momentum from Fly allows you to continue chasing after your opponent after the UAir. Fly -> rising sweetspotted reverse NAir is also a great option because you travel upwards with the opponent and can follow up with something like FAir or glair. Going back to Fly -> rising UAir, you can also opt for Fly -> waveland if you think your opponent has to tech onto the platform; this sets up extremely well for DSmash, which will cover all of their teching options on platforms like in BF and Yoshi's Story, and then Fly -> sweetspotted up+B is an amazing follow-up to that platform DSmash because they are so close to the ceiling. With regards to DSmash, I think you should try looking for more opportunities to use it; it is easily Charizard's most consistent move in terms of profits you can yield and if they are forced to tech near the edge, it can potentially cover all of their teching options depending on the length of their techroll and their position.
On a more minor note, I think you should try using Glide to recover more often; it's deceptively hard to hit Charizard out of it, especially if you either glide from high above the stage after DI'ing up or if you glide low and sweetspot the edge with jumps and your up+B. Charizard's aerial drift speed isn't terribly good, so using double-jumps alone left you open to being edgeguarded.
Other than those things, your Charizard looked good. Congratulations on getting so far in the tournament and repping Charizard so well!
1) You didn't really figure out how to edgeguard PKT1 (before he hits himself) or PKT2 (when he hits himself and travels). A lot of the times, it seemed like he was getting back for free. I haven't played a good Ness:M before, but my first instinct for PKT2 would be to go for reverse NAirs; it's disjointed enough that you're safe from PKT2 and it also sweeps through the edge. If you space it properly, you can also try punishing his landing by DSmashing where he will land. Alternatively, you can go out and try spacing yourself so that you're just out of range from FAir while covering Ness' double-jump; this way, when he tries to PKT1, you're right there and can easily hit him. Using Fly to set yourself up might be pretty good for this, since you would be coming from above Ness and be safe from PK Fire while covering his double-jump.
2) You could've made more optimal decisions when it came to comboing. I can go back and cite some specific examples if you want, but a lot of the times when you used BThrow, you were never really able to profit from it because you sometimes either waited for a reaction or went for a NAir. Reverse NAir might've worked since it comes out on frame 4, but a more consistent follow-up to BThrow when the DI up is FAir. In general, I feel like you could've used FAir more, both for killing and for comboing; weak FAir is an awesome combo tool if you catch your opponents DI'ing up and sweetspotted FAir is an incredibly meaty punish and combo finisher. While you did some cool things with shffl'd weak NAirs, they aren't particularly powerful unless you follow up with something more substantial and, because you're relying on the front hitbox of NAir, they may be able to escape between NAirs. You can try ending NAir combos with more FAirs and continuing combos out of weak NAir with jab.
As for vertical combos, I didn't see a lot of Fly; most of the times when your opponent was sent above you to roughly the level of the top platforms, you opted for double-jump UAir instead of Fly -> rising UAir. Fly -> rising UAir is a better option, especially if you hit with the sweetspot, because the momentum from Fly allows you to continue chasing after your opponent after the UAir. Fly -> rising sweetspotted reverse NAir is also a great option because you travel upwards with the opponent and can follow up with something like FAir or glair. Going back to Fly -> rising UAir, you can also opt for Fly -> waveland if you think your opponent has to tech onto the platform; this sets up extremely well for DSmash, which will cover all of their teching options on platforms like in BF and Yoshi's Story, and then Fly -> sweetspotted up+B is an amazing follow-up to that platform DSmash because they are so close to the ceiling. With regards to DSmash, I think you should try looking for more opportunities to use it; it is easily Charizard's most consistent move in terms of profits you can yield and if they are forced to tech near the edge, it can potentially cover all of their teching options depending on the length of their techroll and their position.
On a more minor note, I think you should try using Glide to recover more often; it's deceptively hard to hit Charizard out of it, especially if you either glide from high above the stage after DI'ing up or if you glide low and sweetspot the edge with jumps and your up+B. Charizard's aerial drift speed isn't terribly good, so using double-jumps alone left you open to being edgeguarded.
Other than those things, your Charizard looked good. Congratulations on getting so far in the tournament and repping Charizard so well!
metroid1117
Smash Master
Whoops, double-posted.
My Zard vs Ryuker's Marth friendly Bo5 set:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=lLJsMe2sY4M
Feedback always appreciated.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=lLJsMe2sY4M
Feedback always appreciated.
Yomi-no-Kuni
Smash Lord
@Ace: Your Zard looks pretty similar to mine :D the way you go for Usmashs and Uair juggles
I'd love to play you sometime :/ Guess i gotta get my ass to amsterdam some time soon :D
Hey Metroid! I'm watching your videos and as always i'm wondering if you'd like to hear my thoughts or wether you'd take it as unnescessary naging if i'd post tipps.
I don't really know how i compare to you in skill so i don't know wether i have alot of usefull things to offer...
First of all watching you made me realize that i need to get more comfortable wit using dtilt and fairs.
my notes to your videos in spoiler (if you don't want them just don't check them):
[collapse=stuff]I apply most of my tipps by assuming P:M mechanics are pretty much as melees if i'm not sure wether its the same for the two. If i am horribly wrong somewhere PLEASE correct me. My time playing P:M is quite limited sadly, so i might be suffering from a couple of misconceptions.
- Getting onstage from the ledge: you tend to do alot of ledgejumped aerials onto the stage. It's good if you know you can hit, but if it's your default option it's horrible and a really hard habit to get rid of again. Ice forced me to stop overusing fairs from the ledge with Sheik in melee. If you want to hit the enemy close to the ledge, it is alot safer to go for retreating aerials and then regrabing the ledge. if you hit you can safely waveland onto the stage and techchase/follow up, but you don't commit as heavily (be careful about getting shielded->spiked against characters like falco/sonic then though)
Generally Waveland onto the stage (into grab/shield/roll/aerial/Usmash/jab) should be the safest option because it gives you invincibility and tons of options. Mixing it up should always be top priority though.
- USE METEOR CANCELS! If sonic tries to finish you after a combo you should be able to see it coming. Since Charizard has multiple air jumps you can just hold the jump button when you're hit and he'll jump as soon as possible. That'll let you turn around the combo. (works in melee, dunno about P:M)
- Get used to playing on dreamland. Charizard survives long and can kill early by edgeguarding/high knockbackk attacks. He can also cover the Platforms with nairs/Usmashes since he's so big and the top platform is easily usable with downB. Eventhough his fair and throw suffer horribly i think the pro's greatly outweigh the cons. just be carefull about camping opponents (fast characters that can pressure and run circles)
- I hardly ever saw you use Usmash under platforms. You attempted some, but whenever you forced someone to tech on a platform you opt for the aerial followup. Why not stay save and techchase with usmash from below? Sets up for juggles while being VERY safe and easy to hit.
-You overuse getup attack if you're under pressure and miss a tech. I mostly noticed that when you where playing against sethlon, i'm guessing it wouldn't really matter because sonic can just punish whenever you miss a tech, no matter what you do, but being predictable is never a good thing. plus charizards getup attack isn't really that good i think.
-Get cheap on those edgeguards. Sethlon didn't sweetspot his UpBs exceptionally well, so why not downtilt him every damn time? Similarly you should abuse the Downair on DKs horrible vertical recovery. once he droppes to eyelevel before using UpB it could be a kill.[/collapse]
I'd love to play you sometime :/ Guess i gotta get my ass to amsterdam some time soon :D
Hey Metroid! I'm watching your videos and as always i'm wondering if you'd like to hear my thoughts or wether you'd take it as unnescessary naging if i'd post tipps.
I don't really know how i compare to you in skill so i don't know wether i have alot of usefull things to offer...
First of all watching you made me realize that i need to get more comfortable wit using dtilt and fairs.
my notes to your videos in spoiler (if you don't want them just don't check them):
[collapse=stuff]I apply most of my tipps by assuming P:M mechanics are pretty much as melees if i'm not sure wether its the same for the two. If i am horribly wrong somewhere PLEASE correct me. My time playing P:M is quite limited sadly, so i might be suffering from a couple of misconceptions.
- Getting onstage from the ledge: you tend to do alot of ledgejumped aerials onto the stage. It's good if you know you can hit, but if it's your default option it's horrible and a really hard habit to get rid of again. Ice forced me to stop overusing fairs from the ledge with Sheik in melee. If you want to hit the enemy close to the ledge, it is alot safer to go for retreating aerials and then regrabing the ledge. if you hit you can safely waveland onto the stage and techchase/follow up, but you don't commit as heavily (be careful about getting shielded->spiked against characters like falco/sonic then though)
Generally Waveland onto the stage (into grab/shield/roll/aerial/Usmash/jab) should be the safest option because it gives you invincibility and tons of options. Mixing it up should always be top priority though.
- USE METEOR CANCELS! If sonic tries to finish you after a combo you should be able to see it coming. Since Charizard has multiple air jumps you can just hold the jump button when you're hit and he'll jump as soon as possible. That'll let you turn around the combo. (works in melee, dunno about P:M)
- Get used to playing on dreamland. Charizard survives long and can kill early by edgeguarding/high knockbackk attacks. He can also cover the Platforms with nairs/Usmashes since he's so big and the top platform is easily usable with downB. Eventhough his fair and throw suffer horribly i think the pro's greatly outweigh the cons. just be carefull about camping opponents (fast characters that can pressure and run circles)
- I hardly ever saw you use Usmash under platforms. You attempted some, but whenever you forced someone to tech on a platform you opt for the aerial followup. Why not stay save and techchase with usmash from below? Sets up for juggles while being VERY safe and easy to hit.
-You overuse getup attack if you're under pressure and miss a tech. I mostly noticed that when you where playing against sethlon, i'm guessing it wouldn't really matter because sonic can just punish whenever you miss a tech, no matter what you do, but being predictable is never a good thing. plus charizards getup attack isn't really that good i think.
-Get cheap on those edgeguards. Sethlon didn't sweetspot his UpBs exceptionally well, so why not downtilt him every damn time? Similarly you should abuse the Downair on DKs horrible vertical recovery. once he droppes to eyelevel before using UpB it could be a kill.[/collapse]
Zivilyn Bane
Smash Master
Thanks for the feedback guys! I must admit that after those matches I decided to do a little more work to get better at Project M, so I've watched a bunch of vids and read up a bit on 2.5 Charizard. Your guys's advised is great. I can't wait to play more!
metroid1117
Smash Master
Thanks for the comments! I'm clearly not perfect, so any constructive advice is appreciated@Ace: Your Zard looks pretty similar to mine :D the way you go for Usmashs and Uair juggles
I'd love to play you sometime :/ Guess i gotta get my *** to amsterdam some time soon :D
Hey Metroid! I'm watching your videos and as always i'm wondering if you'd like to hear my thoughts or wether you'd take it as unnescessary naging if i'd post tipps.
I don't really know how i compare to you in skill so i don't know wether i have alot of usefull things to offer...
First of all watching you made me realize that i need to get more comfortable wit using dtilt and fairs.
my notes to your videos in spoiler (if you don't want them just don't check them):
[collapse=stuff]I apply most of my tipps by assuming P:M mechanics are pretty much as melees if i'm not sure wether its the same for the two. If i am horribly wrong somewhere PLEASE correct me. My time playing P:M is quite limited sadly, so i might be suffering from a couple of misconceptions.
- Getting onstage from the ledge: you tend to do alot of ledgejumped aerials onto the stage. It's good if you know you can hit, but if it's your default option it's horrible and a really hard habit to get rid of again. Ice forced me to stop overusing fairs from the ledge with Sheik in melee. If you want to hit the enemy close to the ledge, it is alot safer to go for retreating aerials and then regrabing the ledge. if you hit you can safely waveland onto the stage and techchase/follow up, but you don't commit as heavily (be careful about getting shielded->spiked against characters like falco/sonic then though)
Generally Waveland onto the stage (into grab/shield/roll/aerial/Usmash/jab) should be the safest option because it gives you invincibility and tons of options. Mixing it up should always be top priority though.
- USE METEOR CANCELS! If sonic tries to finish you after a combo you should be able to see it coming. Since Charizard has multiple air jumps you can just hold the jump button when you're hit and he'll jump as soon as possible. That'll let you turn around the combo. (works in melee, dunno about P:M)
- Get used to playing on dreamland. Charizard survives long and can kill early by edgeguarding/high knockbackk attacks. He can also cover the Platforms with nairs/Usmashes since he's so big and the top platform is easily usable with downB. Eventhough his fair and throw suffer horribly i think the pro's greatly outweigh the cons. just be carefull about camping opponents (fast characters that can pressure and run circles)
- I hardly ever saw you use Usmash under platforms. You attempted some, but whenever you forced someone to tech on a platform you opt for the aerial followup. Why not stay save and techchase with usmash from below? Sets up for juggles while being VERY safe and easy to hit.
-You overuse getup attack if you're under pressure and miss a tech. I mostly noticed that when you where playing against sethlon, i'm guessing it wouldn't really matter because sonic can just punish whenever you miss a tech, no matter what you do, but being predictable is never a good thing. plus charizards getup attack isn't really that good i think.
-Get cheap on those edgeguards. Sethlon didn't sweetspot his UpBs exceptionally well, so why not downtilt him every damn time? Similarly you should abuse the Downair on DKs horrible vertical recovery. once he droppes to eyelevel before using UpB it could be a kill.[collapse/]
. Honestly, I'm pretty terribad at meteor canceling, I seriously need to practice how to do it properly. I still have personal qualms with Dreamland because of how large it is (personally, I dislike it because increases the time between direct bouts of combat) and how easily spacies can camp there, but you're right - I underestimated how long Charizard survives there. I also feel like follow-ups from USmash aren't as guaranteed as aerial follow-ups, but USmash is a much safer option. I should use it more out of efficiency's sake though, just because it covers so much of the platform. With regards to DTilt, I have a scrub mentality and dislike using the most efficient option, preferring to go for what looks flashier and more satisfying to execute. However, if I want to play to win, I should definitely use more DTIlt and just play as efficiently as possible.Again, thanks for the comments, they're always welcome!
EDIT: Why are there collapse tags around my post...
Yomi-no-Kuni
Smash Lord
Haha, you just gave me my first like! Thank you!
If you'd be interested i just recently learned TONS of new stuff about Meteor Canceling, its actually really complex. if you'd like to i could summerize the (german) post that i learned it from. (I'd need to read it again for that or i'd have already done it ^^)
If you'd be interested i just recently learned TONS of new stuff about Meteor Canceling, its actually really complex. if you'd like to i could summerize the (german) post that i learned it from. (I'd need to read it again for that or i'd have already done it ^^)
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
Overall: Be more patient. There are times when you have a read, but you make it too late and try to follow up but the opponent has time to do a panic move and trade/win, such as running through Marth's roll and D-smashing only to eat a grab. Sometimes it's best to not do anything instead of trying to react to and punish everything.Definitely looking forward to some feedback now that I have some tournament vids uploaded. So please comment and critique
Zivilyn Bane vs Fishburne (Ness) 2
Zivilyn Bane vs King Siegfried (Falcon Marth Peach)
Zivilyn Bane vs Fishburne (Ness) 1
EDIT: Rearranged in order from top to bottom in which I would like the feedback in.
Use more RAR Nair instead of tossing the move out in front of you.
Other than that I've already given my stage suggestions for Ness. The matchup is, in my experience and it appears your as well, hard for Charizard, but with the right stage picks and strikes it can go more even. It's still just a really, really tough matchup though. Charizard is made of antiairs, has weak techs, and is susceptible to combos, while PK Fire acts as an Anit-ground, tech chase option, and combo extender all by itself.
Zivilyn Bane
Smash Master
Yeah I find that Charizard has trouble vs any characters with a good projectile. And unlike in Melee, PK Fire is really good in P:M. Fishburne deserves a lot of that credit too though. He's very good and clearly on a different level than I am in this game. Kind of how I felt vs King Siegfried in that set.
Yung Mei
Where all da hot anime moms at
- Joined
- Jul 20, 2009
- Messages
- 5,341
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGtn3OItSIM
apparently my charizard is really good, anyone mind giving me some tips?
apparently my charizard is really good, anyone mind giving me some tips?
Kuraudo
4Aerith
Wish I had the crew battle from this Saturday recorded for my Charizard. But ah well.
Tuvillo
Smash Apprentice
You seem to be really good at spacing and control, while keeping the game to your pace, Calvo.
As far as I know, the NAir is easier to sweetspot in reverse, right? (If I'm wrong, ignore that xD)
As far as I know, the NAir is easier to sweetspot in reverse, right? (If I'm wrong, ignore that xD)
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
Not just easier, about 15 frames faster. The move hits on frame 4 behind him and takes a while before it then reaches in front. It's safe on whiff with the wraparound portion and leaves charizard in a position to readily use another one.
I need to make a correction in the nair thread about the hitbox priority though.
I need to make a correction in the nair thread about the hitbox priority though.
metroid1117
Smash Master
Hey guys, sorry for the delay but I've finally got around to updating this thread with all of the videos and comments that have been posted since the last update (which was 2 months ago >.>). Among the videos added is a set I had with Kels at SMYM14; he clearly wasn't playing at his best, but you can find the video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmheG_-_kHo&list=PLF7EpQS-96inGL3OJCDec4qkNzBZJjGwT
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Here are some matches in which I use Zard. Lots and lots of helpful critique is appreciated:
Bubbaking (Charizard) vs GimR (Marth) (game 2)
Bubbaking (Zard) vs GimR (Marth) (game 3)
Bubbaking (Zard) vs JCaesar (ROB)
Bubbaking (Charizard) vs GimR (Marth) (game 2)
Bubbaking (Zard) vs GimR (Marth) (game 3)
Bubbaking (Zard) vs JCaesar (ROB)
RAR Nair and more reverse nair in general. Punish spotdodge with dsmash and don't charge downB unless you really need it (like say after dsmash on a floaty at highish percent). Just tap and go to town.
JOE!
Smash Hero
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=own2wXFzmhY
some vids of me derping through some fights. Blame lack of beign able to play often / tired from school johns lol.
Watching it over I saw tons of places where a grab would've been ideal, among other things such as working on prediction / etc (and maybe using Fire Blast too often / at wrong spacing). But when he does get those grab set-ups, is there any way to escape Dthrow shenanigans? And what can be done if I have to go against a shield when I'm airborne? It seems like he always had the upper hand if I am close to him and above.
some vids of me derping through some fights. Blame lack of beign able to play often / tired from school johns lol.
Watching it over I saw tons of places where a grab would've been ideal, among other things such as working on prediction / etc (and maybe using Fire Blast too often / at wrong spacing). But when he does get those grab set-ups, is there any way to escape Dthrow shenanigans? And what can be done if I have to go against a shield when I'm airborne? It seems like he always had the upper hand if I am close to him and above.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Wait, are you asking if there's any way to escape from Zard's dthrow combos? If that's what you're asking, you should know that Zard's dthrow has been quite noticeably slowed down (IASA) in the transtion from 2.1 to 2.5b. I feel that it is now practically impossible to effectively tech-chase people, especially chars with long or fast techrolls, who don't miss techs, even on platforms. If you read that the opponent isn't going to tech, you can just jab in place as soon as possible or you can wait and try to react to one of his get-up options with dsmash or something. Dthrow > dsmash is no longer really a thing..... 
If you find yourself on top of a shield, you can either poke at it with nair, which is a lot safer if there are platforms to land on, or land quickly next to it under the threat of a nair and then grab. However, this is still generally a very awkward position for Zard to be in. When you say, "It seems like [my opponent] always had the upper hand if I am close to him and above," all I can really say is that is how it should feel. Zard wants to be on the same level as or under his opponents. That's where his neutral game and combo game thrives.
If you find yourself on top of a shield, you can either poke at it with nair, which is a lot safer if there are platforms to land on, or land quickly next to it under the threat of a nair and then grab. However, this is still generally a very awkward position for Zard to be in. When you say, "It seems like [my opponent] always had the upper hand if I am close to him and above," all I can really say is that is how it should feel. Zard wants to be on the same level as or under his opponents. That's where his neutral game and combo game thrives.
JOE!
Smash Hero
Right, I knew about the frame advantage change, but was referring to links dthrow.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Oh, ok. Well, the 'above shield' thing applies to anyone Zard might happen to be facing, but being above Link is even worse than being above most characters. Between utilt, usmash, uair, bombs thrown upwards, and whole plethora of other mix-up options he has on your descent, you REALLY don't want to be there. In fact, in that case, I might just forego the whole 'poking with nair' thing and just try to find someplace to land. Being above Link is really disgustingly bad.
I don't know if Link still has his 2.1 CG or if he even has/had a CG on Zard to begin with, but I was under the impression that Link's dthrow combos on all the non-FFers were pretty much guaranteed. I mean, you could try to DI to avoid big things like dthrow > dair/uair, I think, but I'm pretty sure that dthrow > nair/bair/fair is guaranteed, and those things tend to combo into even more things anyway. Just.....don't get grabbed, dude. A lot of chars can really mess up Zard off of a throw, even though he's really floaty for his size/weight. It's kinda like karma.....I guess.
I don't know if Link still has his 2.1 CG or if he even has/had a CG on Zard to begin with, but I was under the impression that Link's dthrow combos on all the non-FFers were pretty much guaranteed. I mean, you could try to DI to avoid big things like dthrow > dair/uair, I think, but I'm pretty sure that dthrow > nair/bair/fair is guaranteed, and those things tend to combo into even more things anyway. Just.....don't get grabbed, dude. A lot of chars can really mess up Zard off of a throw, even though he's really floaty for his size/weight. It's kinda like karma.....I guess.
JOE!
Smash Hero
Meh, I'll just have to work on Baiting Link's grab in particular, the way he shoots it out + range is wicked lol.
Yomi-no-Kuni
Smash Lord
Hi Guyz!
So, i*m in sweden right now, got to try mz Charizard on a coule of unsuspecting victims at Beast3! (The tourney were Ice took a set of Mango if anzone doesn*t know bz now)
I got fifth (dunno how big, maybe 60 participants from europe i guess, don*t know if scar participated)
The vids are only going to be on Twitch, so I*ll link everything i can find with a timestamp.
I actually thought i had more matches recorded, but i guess its just my sets versus fuzzy and 2 others...
There were 2 other Zards at the tournament, Android and King Funk (They had lots of matches in the videos following my first set vs Fuzzy. Don*t know which one it is, but i think most is android)
Yomi vs Bosen (Lucas)
http://www.twitch.tv/fuzzyness/b/386532403
Yomi vs Android (Charizard)
http://www.twitch.tv/fuzzyness/b/386543436
Yomi vs Fuzzyness (Lucario)
http://www.twitch.tv/fuzzyness/b/386491632?t=05m20s Set 1
http://www.twitch.tv/fuzzyness/b/386543436?t=32m40s Set 2
Freeplay vs Fuzzyness(lucas/lucario/...) and King Funk(Wolf,Charizard...)
(Looser Out, My first matches, so the first matches may not resemble my normal playstyle)
http://www.twitch.tv/fuzzyness/b/386422563?t=1h01m00s
http://www.twitch.tv/fuzzyness/b/386444706 (not sure who this is against, it involves someone else)
I*d appreciate feedback.
Things i worked on during these vids:
Working on using ftilt/dtilt more effectively.
Working on TapA to interrupt approaches, and TapA in general.
So, i*m in sweden right now, got to try mz Charizard on a coule of unsuspecting victims at Beast3! (The tourney were Ice took a set of Mango if anzone doesn*t know bz now)
I got fifth (dunno how big, maybe 60 participants from europe i guess, don*t know if scar participated)
The vids are only going to be on Twitch, so I*ll link everything i can find with a timestamp.
I actually thought i had more matches recorded, but i guess its just my sets versus fuzzy and 2 others...
There were 2 other Zards at the tournament, Android and King Funk (They had lots of matches in the videos following my first set vs Fuzzy. Don*t know which one it is, but i think most is android)
Yomi vs Bosen (Lucas)
http://www.twitch.tv/fuzzyness/b/386532403
Yomi vs Android (Charizard)
http://www.twitch.tv/fuzzyness/b/386543436
Yomi vs Fuzzyness (Lucario)
http://www.twitch.tv/fuzzyness/b/386491632?t=05m20s Set 1
http://www.twitch.tv/fuzzyness/b/386543436?t=32m40s Set 2
Freeplay vs Fuzzyness(lucas/lucario/...) and King Funk(Wolf,Charizard...)
(Looser Out, My first matches, so the first matches may not resemble my normal playstyle)
http://www.twitch.tv/fuzzyness/b/386422563?t=1h01m00s
http://www.twitch.tv/fuzzyness/b/386444706 (not sure who this is against, it involves someone else)
I*d appreciate feedback.
Things i worked on during these vids:
Working on using ftilt/dtilt more effectively.
Working on TapA to interrupt approaches, and TapA in general.
Good stuff Yomi. Don't have a clue on any of those matchups but watching the Lucas one right now.
I've got a matches vs Ivysaur from my tourney last Saturday. Didn't use much Zard (just these matches) but Bowser carried me to victory (in the tourney, not in this set).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=navMDnl0w_0 match 2 and 4. God I hate Ivysaur.
Also finished my combo video:
Always wanted to make one of these. I'm pretty happy how it turned out.
Unfortunately it's already blocked in Germany because of music copyright. I know other melee vids have successfully appealed to get their music back (for instance the 'You must recover' video but I have no idea how to go about that. So yeah, sorry Yomi, although I guess if you wanna see it you can use a site like 'hidemyass.com'.
I've got a matches vs Ivysaur from my tourney last Saturday. Didn't use much Zard (just these matches) but Bowser carried me to victory (in the tourney, not in this set).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=navMDnl0w_0 match 2 and 4. God I hate Ivysaur.
Also finished my combo video:
Always wanted to make one of these. I'm pretty happy how it turned out.
Unfortunately it's already blocked in Germany because of music copyright. I know other melee vids have successfully appealed to get their music back (for instance the 'You must recover' video but I have no idea how to go about that. So yeah, sorry Yomi, although I guess if you wanna see it you can use a site like 'hidemyass.com'.
MaxThunder
PM Support
i don't like the editing... most of the clips end too soon after the last hit... new clip starts before you can properly register the end of the last one... making it seem like you're just rushing through the vid...
Other than that it's pretty cool=)... i like the music=)...
Other than that it's pretty cool=)... i like the music=)...
Hmm, I wanted to keep it fast paced but maybe I overdid it a bit. Thanks for the feedback.
Yomi-no-Kuni
Smash Lord
can't watch the CV :/ tried with 3 different servers :/ too bad
as for ivysaur: yeah, i learned it was a hard opponent couple of weeks back... spammy, downtilt ***** you, and the worst thing your opponent didn't even know about.... Upair will go through your UpB and meteor you.... so if charizard is on the ledge, you can't recover from below or you are 100% dead. Not even exagerating. (maybe a tiny little bit)
allright, managed to watch it finally! nice stuff, but i like to see wether a combo kills or not, you cut out a little early in most cases.
as for ivysaur: yeah, i learned it was a hard opponent couple of weeks back... spammy, downtilt ***** you, and the worst thing your opponent didn't even know about.... Upair will go through your UpB and meteor you.... so if charizard is on the ledge, you can't recover from below or you are 100% dead. Not even exagerating. (maybe a tiny little bit)
allright, managed to watch it finally! nice stuff, but i like to see wether a combo kills or not, you cut out a little early in most cases.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Actually, I'm inclined to think the opposite after playing a bunch of Ivys, including Nintendude's. Your dtilt's range counters his and so does your ftilt, I believe. Practically any hitbox can remove the leaves so just jab/tilt 'em away. Zard is fast enough to be really scary once he gets into mid-range and Ivy isn't fast enough to respond too well to it. A little DD 'camping' here and there does wonders. Once you get Ivy into the air, he can't really come down. Dash usmash just too good! I don't really mind being above Ivy either. Check this: nair pretty much always goes through Seed Bomb. It's hilarious. This knowledge made my time above Ivy quite easy. Just nair all the bombs on reaction as they're comin' your way. 
If recovering low is seriously a problem, then just go high. Unless he has solarbeam, Ivy can't really do anything about it. Also, when Ivy's recovering, if he's at or below the stage line, I find it somewhat easy to disrupt his recovery. You can just go and place a nair between him and the stage and he's kinda forced to be hit. If you're ballsy, bair and sideB work really well too. I also find Ivy to be pretty darn easy to kill. Since he's slow and can't respond too well to 'burst DDs', it's somewhat easy to land the grab on him, IMO. The hardest part of this MU is just getting into mid-range, but hitboxes take care of leaves and we're way faster than Ivy, so there you go.
If recovering low is seriously a problem, then just go high. Unless he has solarbeam, Ivy can't really do anything about it. Also, when Ivy's recovering, if he's at or below the stage line, I find it somewhat easy to disrupt his recovery. You can just go and place a nair between him and the stage and he's kinda forced to be hit. If you're ballsy, bair and sideB work really well too. I also find Ivy to be pretty darn easy to kill. Since he's slow and can't respond too well to 'burst DDs', it's somewhat easy to land the grab on him, IMO. The hardest part of this MU is just getting into mid-range, but hitboxes take care of leaves and we're way faster than Ivy, so there you go.
Yung Mei
Where all da hot anime moms at
- Joined
- Jul 20, 2009
- Messages
- 5,341
i forgot to post thsi here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt8qL-A7MdM
money match against meta's wolf at april GC, i use charizard on the 4th and 5th match
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt8qL-A7MdM
money match against meta's wolf at april GC, i use charizard on the 4th and 5th match