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Watching The World Burn: Zard Video Thread! [9.29.15]

Yomi-no-Kuni

Yomi-no-Kuni

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Allright, the videos are already up, thanks to Blayd, our german recording genius!

Here you go, i'll just post them in order of bracket appearance! Blayd is a decent player, Sixx is a Upcoming Link player, propably the best (if not only) link in europe (melee) and Ice you should know :D


Winner Quarter: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KI2pWHxBDI Blayd(Charizard/Ike) vs Yomi (Glurak)

Winner Semi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=readlXIPGxg Sixx(Link) vs Yomi (Rizadon)

Winner Final: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNg6p09vhhg Ice (CF) vs Yomi (Charizard)

GrandFinal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4esgT4xkyQ Ice (CF,Falco) vs Yomi (Zard)
Grand Final 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoBJS007U-w Ice (Falco) vs Yomi (Zard)
 
Ace55

Ace55

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Ok, that was amazing! Incredibly well done dude! I don't know if I want to play you anymore :p.

If there is one small remark I could make, you probably could have sneaked in a couple more heatwaves against the fastfallers. Otherwise I'm flabbergasted and I'm not gonna give any advice...
 
Yomi-no-Kuni

Yomi-no-Kuni

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well, zettroxx got to post the amazing set :D

here is part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4esgT4xkyQ

thanks for your response, i hope a couple more people will get to see these, feedback for the last vids i posted was pretty scarce...
@heatwave: yeah, you're right. I don't really know how to use it in my juggles yet, getting ppl offstage after juggles i can't finish from would be really nice
 
Ace55

Ace55

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Lol @ the end!

I believe you can get heatwave against fastfallers after just about every on-stage launcher (except Upsmash I think) at mid/higher %, sometimes depending in DI. I saw a number of times where you decided to continue the combo or fair him when you could have just blown him off-stage. Like after you hit him with a souspot dtilt while edgegaurding or with a dsmash. Think of it as a knee that's slower but with a better hitbox.

This is mostly from watching Metroid play though because I tend to go Bowser vs spacies.

Also noticed you have the tendency to charge downB a little when you really don't have to.
 
metroid1117

metroid1117

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While Charizard is still fun to play, I've started to lose interest in him as a main and focusing more energy in Ike instead =/. I'll update the thread soon, but school and job applications are taking up more time than I thought.

Yomi, your Charizard is looking great though! To be honest, I haven't watched any complete sets, but your Charizard is really fast and uses Glide attack intelligently. I'd recommend more dash-canceled jabs, but that's pretty much all that I could say after the limited footage I watched. Keep it up man!
 
Oracle

Oracle

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got a few vids with zard recorded this weekend. didn't though that well with him though lol
 
Yomi-no-Kuni

Yomi-no-Kuni

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reverse nairs! (approach, juggle, edgeguard, gimp. all in one. also, spacing tool.)
you tried an unreversed nair when marth was on the edge, don't do it, that's just wrong :D Use the reversed nair, you'll actually hit BELOW the edge, and it a semi-spike if you hit with the last couple of frames wheras most of the rest of the move knocks up.
Downsmash.
Didn't really see you use it with effect. Its a really nice techchase tool and it will guarantee a followup (jugglecombo at lower%, SideB or any kill move at higher %)
You did a nice Downair combo on the Second stock, really liked it :) You decieded to follow up with a nair after your second DownAir though. You Should try to hit another Dair or simply land and techchase. The Nair would've ended your combo, even if it had hit with the sweetspot. If the opponent misses the tech and you downaired him onto a platform, you can almost always get another downair before they can react before they can react, setting them up for a juggle or kill.

I think your ground game needs some work, you don't really implement dashdances, CC Jabs (out of run), or CC downtilts, which should all be nice mixups to spamming RAR.

Haven't really played against marth at all, so all my tipps are to be taken with a pinch of salt. I'm just happy to see i'm not the only decent Zard out there after everyone apparently quits him (looking at you Ace and Metroid!)

didn't see you using glides aggressively though, maybe i missed it :D I think i saw you use it with waveland once though, looked pretty fast. I gotta work on utilizing glidecancel ingame aswell. i think it offers alot.

Also, if you're good with glidecanceling ****, could you maybe try something out for me?
I'd like to see wether UpThrow combos into anything, or atleast lets you cover some options, if you Upthrow->Glide while still in air-> Cancel the glide (reversing) -> Nair sweetspot.

I feel like it's a good way to pressure the opponent at higher % after getting him offstage with Uthrow, and i believe it might combo on some heavier characters at lower%. But i really suck at utilizing the cancel.
 
QraQ

QraQ

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Yomi-no-Kuni said:
reverse nairs! (approach, juggle, edgeguard, gimp. all in one. also, spacing tool.)
you tried an unreversed nair when marth was on the edge, donfini't do it, that's just wrong :D Use the reversed nair, you'll actually hit BELOW the edge, and it a semi-spike if you hit with the last couple of frames wheras most of the rest of the move knocks up.
Downsmash.
Didn't really see you use it with effect. Its a really nice techchase tool and it will guarantee a followup (jugglecombo at lower%, SideB or any kill move at higher %)
You did a nice Downair combo on the Second stock, really liked it :) You decieded to follow up with a nair after your second DownAir though. You Should try to hit another Dair or simply land and techchase. The Nair would've ended your combo, even if it had hit with the sweetspot. If the opponent misses the tech and you downaired him onto a platform, you can almost always get another downair before they can react before they can react, setting them up for a juggle or kill.

I think your ground game needs some work, you don't really implement dashdances, CC Jabs (out of run), or CC downtilts, which should all be nice mixups to spamming RAR.

Haven't really played against marth at all, so all my tipps are to be taken with a pinch of salt. I'm just happy to see i'm not the only decent Zard out there after everyone apparently quits him (looking at you Ace and Metroid!)

didn't see you using glides aggressively though, maybe i missed it :D I think i saw you use it with waveland once though, looked pretty fast. I gotta work on utilizing glidecancel ingame aswell. i think it offers alot.
Also, if you're good with glidecanceling ****, could you maybe try something out for me?
I'd like to see wether UpThrow combos into anything, or atleast lets you cover some options, if you Upthrow->Glide while still in air-> Cancel the glide (reversing) -> Nair sweetspot.

I feel like it's a good way to pressure the opponent at higher % after getting him offstage with Uthrow, and i believe it might combo on some heavier characters at lower%. But i really suck at utilizing the cancel.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your tips. I can agree with the reverse nair being used over forward.
As far as my ground game, I don't ever really use "just" dashdancing. As in, you never see me do it more than once without something in between. I have a mixup I do of MW, WD, DD, reversing and stagger stepping. I've noticed that many Charizards either over-utilize his ground game or under utilize his dominant aerial game. I don't see many Chars high-jump canceling into aerials or glide for high air positioning. Really the biggest trend I see with Char players is their overuse of nair. Nair is good but I personally think, outside of sweetspotting, it's combo potential is limited. Fair is usually my combo weapon of choice with Char. Ima try to get a vid of my Char Pillaring lulz.
Also, the aggressive nature I spoke of is just using it for positioning on stage and RAR. I'll post other vids that show it with better execution.

Here's a fun Charizard/DeDeDe wombo combo at 2:32 - finish:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GX5kcp9jeFU
I played horribly that match, just watch the combo hahah.
 
Yomi-no-Kuni

Yomi-no-Kuni

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I spam alot of nairs, but i pretty much always get the sweetspot with it. Even when i try juggling with it.
@yoshi: i'll get to watch your vids this weekend maybe.
 
QraQ

QraQ

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Yomi-no-Kuni said:
I spam alot of nairs, but i pretty much always get the sweetspot with it. Even when i try juggling with it.
@yoshi: i'll get to watch your vids this weekend maybe.
Click to expand...
I just don't understand the fascination with using nair in most situations.
Fair combos much harder than nair imo, and is easier to follow-up.
A good U-air raid can juggle most midsize characters after 20%.
The only thing I would contend on nair being dominant in compared to the other aerials is off-edge pressure But in all reality, it's just a poor substitute to harder moves that have better gain.
 
Yomi-no-Kuni

Yomi-no-Kuni

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I don't use it to juggle the opponent above me, but it's the best tool to reach an opponent that has DIed out of Uair reach and is high enough to be killed easily by nair or Fair. in that scenario i prefer reversed nairs as killers. I use fair only if i can combo into it with fair or anything else. I think it leaves you to vulnerable, as you need to give up your spacing to hit fair in the air.
 
bubbaking

bubbaking

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Whipped out my Zard at Zenith. I now feel comfortable co-maining Zard along with ROB, so comfortable that I opened up both sets linked below with him (even though ROB is probably my best character). I'm happy because it was a feat that I started way back in 2.1 when most people felt he sucked and now I think I can finally do things with him. I also won a $5 MM against this great Mario main/Snake secondary (Powdered Milkman) with heavy Zard usage, but unfortunately, it wasn't recorded. Anyway, the matches, both of them were really tense against GREAT users of their characters:
Bubbaking (Zard) vs Kels (Sheik) (Match 1 only)
Bubbaking (Zard) vs Gohan (Peach) (Match 1 only)
Please heavily criticize my matches. I really want to improve and bring this character to greater heights, and I know there's a ton of stuff I need to improve. Thanks a lot! :)
 
Yomi-no-Kuni

Yomi-no-Kuni

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Ace55 said:
Nice stuff Yomi. Only remark I have is stop always charging Fly.
Click to expand...
I think i do that because i try to see where my opponent is going before releasing the button. I guess i really should stop doing that :)

i'll watch your videos as soon as i get a proxy to work bubba... damn you youtube/Germany/GEMA!


@Bubba:
vs Peach
Covering your decent with a fair (ff or not) will often catch your opponents of guard. Your first stock lost could've been avoided for example. (eventhough though i feel that was one of those moments where you are just a bit to stunned to react xD
I don't know what options you get vs peach after backthrow, but you should be able to get a fair at low/mid percentages i feel. Peachs tech roll doesn't seem too bad, so maybe you should consider backthrowing after downthrow techchase doesn't pay off. Mix-ups are always helpfull.
You should also use more RAR. If you find the right distance, You will always be a threat. That lets you controll the pace of the game wonderfully, even against spammier characters. If you spam it on Shield well spaced you are quite safe (except against tethers and ppl who have mastered WD ooS punishes)

vs Kels
If you hit him with Downsmash near the ledge, don't launch him all the way over the stage. Jump into position and use a turnaround ForwardB, it's just as quick. -> kill
Your match was amazing though, sweet charizard!

More RAR in general is what i would advise you. It gives you amazing controll over the flow of the match!
 
Ace55

Ace55

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Me vs Avalancer's Zelda. Advice very much appreciated. **** Zelda.

I've concluded that I have to be more patient while getting through Dins and there were a couple of times where I could have uptilted instead of upsmash. A fresh take on it would be nice though.

And about the weird start. He reset the first game because of a controller issue so he let me do 40% to roughly equal the balance when he reset.
 
Yomi-no-Kuni

Yomi-no-Kuni

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haha, i was so waiting for these!!

will watch them right away, but i've only played one zelda so far and he ****ed me pretty hard...

allright, so all of this is theory crafting since i only got to play once and had to think about everything after.
Never let them start spamming. Charizard is too ****ing fat, So optimaly you want to punish them for every forwardB they set.
So stay in tail-range most of the time, but out of fair/bair range. I think her horizontal speed is very limited, so it should be possible to stay safe from her aerials while keeping on some pressure.
If she uses sideB just tackle her with anything you've got. I don't know how much time there is until SideB gets a hitbox, but as far as i saw dashattack and tapA cancel it out, so i guess spamming those (and apparently non-reversed nair works alot better at clanking than reverse nair does) would be safe to shut down his SideB Spam. Until he starts using CC Downsmash/grab. (Good example at 18:30... if you could connect like that reliably i think you can shut down the SideB spam pretty well)
I don't think there really is a safe way to get rid of a SideB once its planted. Anything you do will leave you open for a grab or dashattack or fair. it suuucks...

Be sure to land your early kills up top. since she's so floatie you need to be good at hitting UpBs.

I ****ing hate her Recovery though. didn't even know she could use neutralB for height.... Well, just try and bait her onto the stage, and wait in shield. Punish with Something OoS (wavedash, or downair setups). I really doubt that'll work on someone who's perfect at sweetspotting whenever he wants...


So recap: controll her with reverse nairs, stay out of aerial range, but keep her from feeling safe when using SideB. Her grab is also evil. It's all a spacing game... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfBuAo_Bfvw
Zelda is OP and i think the match-up might be horribly hard.

I don't really get your BF counterpick, the lower platforms are pretty annoying when you want to approach from above, plus the stage isn't really that low. Try something with a low ceiling and free airspace. I think PS would be perfect, maybe even FD because it lets you stick with her pretty easily.

don't be afraid/ashamed to camp out bad transformations on PS!

must've been a really frustrating set for you :/
 
Ace55

Ace55

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Yomi-no-Kuni said:
must've been a really frustrating set for you :/
Click to expand...

Yeah, and I had to do it twice :hulk: (first one was with Wario, not uploaded yet). Thanks for the input. Spacing reverse nair in her face sounds like a good idea.

Whoever came up with a teleport with a hitbox at the beginning and end with very little cooldown deserves to be spanked lol.

And I agree that BF probably wasn't the right choice, I went PS1 right after. I don't really like FD but it's probably not a bad choice. I don't mind camping out transformations (hell, last tourney I ledgecamped Fays for like 2 minutes on the second part of Halberd in GF) but I got a little carried away I guess lol.

I saw that the common consensus in the matchup thread is that Zard loses hard but I'm not yet convinced that's the case. Zelda just has a lot of shenanigans that I'm not used to.


The only other set where I went Zard:

 
Yomi-no-Kuni

Yomi-no-Kuni

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yeah, it doesn't really show, but that last clip was one of the biggest fails in my smash-career :D grandfinals, last match last stock, succesful gimp to brain-afk SD :p
 
The_NZA

The_NZA

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Holy **** I usually find watching Charizard to be boring. But that Enter the Dragon Video is HYPE! GREAT MUSIC CHOICE!
 
Yomi-no-Kuni

Yomi-no-Kuni

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watched your matches bubba!
I think you've gotten alot better from the last videos i've seen!


can't say much about the squirtle matchup, but i think you had trouble techchasing him. i guess his roll is rather fast/far? I stopped using downthrow chases on alot of the cast, because you don't get alot from it most of the time, e.g. bowser can get away safe, as can the spacies, by neutral teching and then attacking asap. (shine/fortress). So against chars with instant attacks or quick and long rolls, i rather focus on finding setups with the backthrow or gimp with fthrow.

Squirte is to light to get huge juggle combos in, in these cases i try to hit with weak upairs (and then follow up with whatever seems possible. fair or UpB mostly. Also, if you launch him at higher%, a weak uair before UpB mostly makes it safer to hit the UpB.

Like your use of the ftilt for zoning squirtle out.
 
bubbaking

bubbaking

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Got 3rd place for the second time in a row at a local Xanadu tournament yesterday, under the same exact people (JCaesar and Redd). :urg:
Here are my Zard matches from WQFs against JCaesar:
http://www.twitch.tv/vgbootcamp/b/441852460?t=0h55m30s (games 2 & 3)
Here are my Zard matches from LFs against Redd:
http://www.twitch.tv/vgbootcamp/b/441852460?t=1h43m00s (game 1)
http://www.twitch.tv/vgbootcamp/b/441852460?t=1h51m00s (game 3)
I know I messed up a lot, and I believe that if I push myself harder, I can definitely come out on top of these guys, so please critique these matches. Everyone's advice is welcome! :)
 
metroid1117

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bubbaking said:
Got 3rd place for the second time in a row at a local Xanadu tournament yesterday, under the same exact people (JCaesar and Redd). :urg:
Here are my Zard matches from WQFs against JCaesar:
http://www.twitch.tv/vgbootcamp/b/441852460?t=0h55m30s (games 2 & 3)
Here are my Zard matches from LFs against Redd:
http://www.twitch.tv/vgbootcamp/b/441852460?t=1h43m00s (game 1)
http://www.twitch.tv/vgbootcamp/b/441852460?t=1h51m00s (game 3)
I know I messed up a lot, and I believe that if I push myself harder, I can definitely come out on top of these guys, so please critique these matches. Everyone's advice is welcome! :)
Click to expand...
Congrats on getting third, placing behind Red and JCaesar is nothing to be sad about.

I didn't watch your set with JCaesar, but I saw your games against Red's Pit and Falco. You played well against his Pit, it was pretty clear that he wasn't too familiar with his character and you punished him for that. However, instead of following up juggles with full-hop UAirs, you might want to consider Fly -> UAir/NAir instead; the extra momentum from Fly allows you to follow up better if UAir or tipped NAir connect, and charging Fly allows you to adapt to your opponent's reaction (jumping, throwing out an aerial, etc.).

Against Falco, it's really important to wavedash out-of-shield or reverse NAir out of shield; the first offers you some mobility and the second offers some limited means of self-defense when Falco locks you down with lasers. Avoid sitting in your shield unless you know Falco is going to approach with an aerial and try not to shieldgrab unless they did their aerial early (so they take longer to hit the ground) or if you angled your shield up to hopefully tamper with their fastfall/l-cancel timing. As tedious as it may seem, this is one match-up where I'd recommend learning how to powershield on a semi-consistent basis; even if you can powershield only 1/5 lasers, wavedashing out of a powershield typically leads to a grab, and a grab can lead to many nasty things with proper tech chasing and edgeguarding. Another problem you had was not DI'ing shine that well; it's hard, but try SDI'ing the shine sideways to avoid getting combo'd out of it as easily. Charizard is a very big target, but SDI can give him limited means to escape. Lastly, I don't think Skyworld was a good counterpick; while the low ceiling and the right-hand platforms may have been appealing for UThrow kills, the platforms are too high for Charizard to easily access whereas Falco can just full-hop and waveland. Charizard does extremely well from juggling with USmash, and Skyworld's platform layout inhibits that option; IMHO, Yoshi's Story or Battlefield would've been a better counterpick since you can get more utility out of those platforms that Skyworld's.
 
Yomi-no-Kuni

Yomi-no-Kuni

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Still working my way through JCs set. I'm not gonna critique, i'll just enjoy :D

(If you're really interested, i'd have a few remarks to make, but nothing major)
edit: I'd really like to play you 2... too bad :)
edit2: you need to work on your juggles and edgeguards vs fastfallers. Thats where zard shines, especially at low %.
 
metroid1117

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So yeah... needless to say, I haven't been updating this thread. In addition to that, I've taken on more real-life responsibilities and would like to cut down on any more Smash responsibilities I have, so if anyone wants to take over this thread, I'll PM a Mod and see if I can get you editing powers over the OP or you can just start a new thread altogether.
 
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