Wario's Week 36 Matchup Discussion: Cpt. Falcon!

[Lord Chair]

To be honest, it's like -7 on shield, perhaps slightly more if not cancelled correctly, I don't see how jump+bair (frame what, 16?) can punish that.

 

[PhantomX]

Marth doesn't have to space it poorly. You can't really punish it too well if you're grounded
but if you're in the air and he swing while you're weaving and misses you can hit him with any of the above.

 

[lordhelmet]

SSBB: Krystedez (Wario) vs Ally (Captain Falcon); Bracket Match [3/3]

Ally wrote at 6:48 PM on Jul 6, 2010 :
???? I died to Lava 3 times on norfair, imo NOT that legit LOL. and it was my fault 3 times. his wario ***** my Snake though so I dont wwanna go SNake.

Still think it's 7-3? Apologies if you didn't want this bumped, if that's the case I offer my body for countless infractions.

 

[Lord Chair]

Oh, nice of you to bring it up.

My ideas about the MU changed as well, but definitely not because of what whichever Falcon main has said was true lol.

Falcon actually has some silly stuff on Wario, most notably jab, safe shield pressure (read: bair), survivability and somehow very awkward to hit with fart. Or uair. Or fsmash.

Things that are not the reason this MU is surprisingly annoying: Falcon's nair, Falcon's shield approach, Falcon's enormous grab range (lol).

However, once again random people annoy me because they show 1 match and act like as if 1 match is ever capable of proving anything. I wonder whether or not Krys knows that MU, considering the fact they end up on Final Destination.

I do note, however, that this MU may in fact be even or close to even. And yes, I am fully aware of saying something entirely different earlier, to my regret.

Bottom line: Falcon is silly and don't take him to FD.

 

[Darky-Sama]

FD is probably the stupidest place you could take Falcon. Though I wouldn't say that it would give you 'too much' of a beneficial edge taking him to any other stage either. Maybe raising your ratio by 5% on anything other than a neutral stage, take Falcon to;

-Brinstar
-Rainbow Cruise
-Norfair (judging it's legal wherever you're playing)
-Delfino Plaza

Falcon does amazing on them as well, but given the common knowledge, they're definantly some of Wario's best choices for CPs.


On a side note, I'm glad Ally proved the accuracy of most of the **** people from the Falcon Boards were saying. Lol

 

[Lord Chair]

Can't say it was Ally who made me change my mind, a certain Kurd did.

On a side note, I'm glad Ally proved the accuracy of most of the **** people from the Falcon Boards were saying. Lol

What accuracies? Only in MU ratio perhaps, never did any Falcon boarder address relevant topics (see: my previous post, really I can still lol@ retreating nair).

 

[Darky-Sama]

I wasn't referring to the Nair. lol.

The whole discussion on the Nair was just something I was throwing out there that's nice for spacing. What I mean is Falcon having the ability to safely keep within Wario's comfort zone regardless of how good his camping or spacing is.

It's not nearly as bad as that 30:70 ratio people were proposing earlier in the thread. lolol

 

[AllyKnight]

What stage shoud he go? BF? I can still grab release to UP B on platform, nothing different dude, this MU sucks >.>. UAIR shuts all of Wario's approach from above, Wario's FAIR is potentially his best approach but Wario really needs to play MUCH harder than Falcon has.

 

[Laem]

What stage shoud he go? BF? I can still grab release to UP B on platform, nothing different dude, this MU sucks >.>. UAIR shuts all of Wario's approach from above, Wario's FAIR is potentially his best approach but Wario really needs to play MUCH harder than Falcon has.

if you're feeling lucky try a knee anyway, if it gets shielded you might get a dropoff which is another grab which means a knee hit anyway :d

and there's GR shff bair jab grab at 30% or something
and the list goes on
**** is so ca$h

and the thing is
jab grab is broken
there's no way any wario can avoid it, while also avoiding CF's longer ranged aerials *cough uair*

 

[Lord Chair]

Yeah Wario has to put quite the effort into this MU, probably more than Falcon because Falcon will ultimately decide the momentum, which is rather annoying.

Our of the starter stages, I'd say BF and potentially Yoshi's or PS1 (depending on stage list) do turn out to be the best bet on Wario's part, while Falcon will want to go to FD or alternatively Smashville. GR > upB is really annoying haha, deals a ton of damage (17%), is guaranteed with a platform and somehow the fact that it takes the animation forever to complete really frustrates me, teehee.

A few other notes:

- If you're fond of nair, I strongly suggest to FH it rather than the conventional SH. It prevents silly stuff and potential grabs on Falcon's side. Retreating FH nair on shield is safe.
- Jab > fsmash won't work. Really, it won't. Stick to grab, even though he will live excessively long, if you get frustrated and fsmash anyway you'll eat a grab.
- Once again, Falcon lives stupidly long. You have no real kill setups, if you whiff a fart (and really, it's pretty hard to fart him) you're left with uair and perhaps ftilt, neither of which are ideal. Your only opportunities to kill him will probably be catching him on his landing, those are kind of crucial to exploit.
- Knee will kill at 100-110%, if you're on Smashville you should be able to time your release so that he'll have to resort to upB (watch out: smart Falcon's may try to platform cancel > grab, don't think you'll be safe when you get platform support, and **** DON'T ALWAYS SHIELD WHEN THAT HAPPENS (on SV that is, really nothing is more silly than Wario thinking he's safe only to get grabbed on the platform anyway).
- Bite stops most of not all of Falcon's approaches, but a Falcon with a decent reaction time WILL punish a whiffed Bite... with grab.
- Retreating uair on shield is obviously safe, but Falcon has the tools to counter it.
- When up close in the air, you should stick to fair and nair, uair/dair/bair may turn out to be too slow.

Don't go to FD, I don't know how often I've said that, FD is just a terrible stage to play Falcon on.

That would be all for now.

edit: My faithful previous poster and dear friend is also right, jab is really idiotic. Inb4 'OLOL SDI DAT SZHIT', you can SDI as much as you like, it's still puts you in a terrible position. Don't try close quarters with Falcon, just don't.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

What stage shoud he go? BF? I can still grab release to UP B on platform, nothing different dude, this MU sucks >.>. UAIR shuts all of Wario's approach from above, Wario's FAIR is potentially his best approach but Wario really needs to play MUCH harder than Falcon has.

I can literally sit there press buttons and still be able to win. However, get spoutting this is a bad MU for Wario. It's funny how you'll go falcon against any Wario then when it's time to play hunger the falcon goes away.....*shrugs* that's ally for you.

A lot of people are over thinking this MU. Having a GR option on Wario doesn't mean you win the mU. Falcon has so many weak points that Wario can just abuse.

 

[Lord Chair]

Name those specific weak points.

 

[Krystedez]

Please do, Ally ***** the **** outta me on FD. I think its cuz it was FD and I get grabbed too much/mind-gamed too much against this fella.

YOU HEAR ME ALLY?! I GET MIND GAMED TOO MUCH! NEXT TIME IM COMING WITH A PHD IN MIND GAMING PHYSCIS!

 

[bassem6]

I can literally sit there press buttons and still be able to win. However, get spoutting this is a bad MU for Wario. It's funny how you'll go falcon against any Wario then when it's time to play hunger the falcon goes away.....*shrugs* that's ally for you.

A lot of people are over thinking this MU. Having a GR option on Wario doesn't mean you win the mU. Falcon has so many weak points that Wario can just abuse.

Has ally even tried using falcon against hunger before? Maybe he hasnt played hunger since he got really good at the falcon wario MU or maybe hunger is just good at the wario falcon MU.

He still beat both me and krystedez and we arent exactly pushovers ourselves.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Has ally even tried using falcon against hunger before? Maybe he hasnt played hunger since he got really good at the falcon wario MU or maybe hunger is just good at the wario falcon MU.

He still beat both me and krystedez and we arent exactly pushovers ourselves.

He played hunger like a month ago and went snake.... no johns my dood.

 

[Lord Chair]

You still haven't named those weak points, contribute kkthnx.

 

[Darky-Sama]

The grab release isn't the only thing that Falcon has over Wario. Like Ally said, Falcon's Uair almost completely shuts down Wario's approaches from above, which keeps him more on a horizontal range. When it comes to that factor, Wario is placed at a risk to get grabbed due to Falcon's ability to keep within Wario's comfort zone.

The only thing I can say Wario has over Falcon that could potentially change the match around is his 'buffered chaingrab' that people seem to speak so highly of. I remember when the grab release -> whatever options on Wario were discovered, people claimed it wouldn't help Falcon whatsoever due to Wario's buffered dthrow chaingrab on him. I wonder where that enthusiasm went? lol

Other than that, Wario doesn't have too much on Falcon. A couple of follow-up options after pressuring with Nair, but that applies to a lot of characters. Wario really doesn't have many options to place Falcon at an overall disadvantage.

 

[hunger!]

i told ally not to sandbag or do anything stupid. So he went snake. I'm sure if we play again, it'll either be MK or Falcon. And also....i didnt know the CF chaingrab timing like a month ago, now i do =) so bring it on ally! <3


Although, M2k (metaknight of course) and Ally (falcon) beat me and judge when we were Double wario on Frigate. But mostly cause M2k gimped me off my bike at like 12% =)

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

i told ally not to sandbag or do anything stupid. So he went snake. I'm sure if we play again, it'll either be MK or Falcon. And also....i didnt know the CF chaingrab timing like a month ago, now i do =) so bring it on ally! <3


Although, M2k (metaknight of course) and Ally (falcon) beat me and judge when we were Double wario on Frigate. But mostly cause M2k gimped me off my bike at like 12% =)

m2k tends to cary ally in dubz it's a little nuts .

 

[hunger!]

m2k tends to cary ally in dubz it's a little nuts .

not imo. They both support each other like crazy. But when m2k is his main and ally's his...like 3rd? that will happen.


they're both amazing.

 

[toobusytocare]

most characters have aerials that stop wario's approaches (especially from above) for instance, ICs and ZSS. doesnt mean wario loses the MU

also warios bite shuts falcon down hard

 

[Darky-Sama]

I was tempted to say that Wario's bite is useful against Falcon, but the more I think about it, the less useful I see it being. Out of all the players that have tried to use Bite against my Falcon where it was being thrown out as an defensive option to shut down Falcon's approaching or to 'out prioritize' whatever he did, lolno. Offensive? Perhaps after a weak nair or something? Sure. In midair if you can avoid a Uair and are (or are close to) overlapping Falcon? Absolutely.

Though I'm slightly opposed to theorycraft, Bite would leave a cooldown time high enough to get him kneed or grabbed during the ending frames in almost all other cases. There are situations where I see it being incredibly useful in the match-up, but the options Falcon has to punish it otherwise is ridiculous.

It doesn't "shut Falcon down" as much as people seem to believe, though. Maybe just the silly Falcons that run into stuff carelessly. lol

 

[toobusytocare]

all falcons are silly for using such a dumb character

 

[lordhelmet]

Bite's pretty easy to get around. It's only really bad for Falcon in the air. On the ground it's too easy to punish; usmash, utilt, and up-b all beat it safely.

 

[AllyKnight]

m2k tends to cary ally in dubz it's a little nuts .

Carried him at MLG Finals, he was killing me and not doing much, but of course he'll 'carry me' the most, he's MK, I'm Snake, I'll die faster by combos lol.

not imo. They both support each other like crazy. But when m2k is his main and ally's his...like 3rd? that will happen.


they're both amazing.

<3 Falcon next time.

 

[leatherhead93]

Actually guys you can sidestep grab release up b on yoshis. I tested this but the platform HAS to be near the very peak of warios grab release jump. That means as soon as he's at his highest point he has to touch the platform. This is possiable since the platform tilts. Im starting to cp falcons there since the definetly helps not having to worry about grab release.


Also i the only reason ally used falcon is because he had the stage pick since he won the first game so he took krystedez to fd
I think the reason ally falcon is so good is because he doesnt try to be fancy like most CF's going for knees and such. He only uses what works and thats how it should be.

Id say this matchup is about 60-40 or 55-45. Id say the only reason why wario wins is simpliy because he juggles the hell out of CF. Bite definetly helps in that reguard as well. And we fart his recovery as well. Its not hard to time either. Still without fart CF still lives a hella long time with good di.

SH uair is a very good approuch for falcon and its pretty hard to punish in most cases. Makes me glad wario has probably the best airdodge in the game xD

 

[Darky-Sama]

I think the reason ally falcon is so good is because he doesnt try to be fancy like most CF's going for knees and such. He only uses what works and thats how it should be.

This is exactly what our board has been trying to convince people. Within the past six months, we've been trying to make it known that Falcon actually has SOME potential when he's not being played as though every match is a ****ing combo video. He has a lot of legit follow-ups, but people seem to think of Falcon as a terrible character that should only be used when you're trying to be flashy and lol... it doesn't work that way.

 

[Krystedez]

Actually guys you can sidestep grab release up b on yoshis. I tested this but the platform HAS to be near the very peak of warios grab release jump. That means as soon as he's at his highest point he has to touch the platform. This is possiable since the platform tilts. Im starting to cp falcons there since the definetly helps not having to worry about grab release.

THANK YOU. I used to think YI was my bad stage, but now I'm going to practice hardcore on it because of that. I'm so **** afraid of grabs that's what gets me into them, and when I'm playing like I don't care or I'm not afraid I do just fine (i.e., CPing a Dedede on FD like a dumb@$$ but still winning cuz im a confident campy mofo :D).

Also i the only reason ally used falcon is because he had the stage pick since he won the first game so he took krystedez to fd

Yea I banned Halberd that time because I had a feeling he'd CP to his real main and not his douche of an MK trying to act like his main. Totally caught me off guard. If I hadn't banned Halberd, he woulda gone snake, and I know snake VERY well there, unless he was silly enough to go Falcon on YI against me. Hell, I know Snake very well on FD, that's sorta why I didn't ban it, I wanted an FD brutal Snake v. Wario match, which I only am gunna get in friendlies I guess with this dude -_-;

I think the reason ally falcon is so good is because he doesnt try to be fancy like most CF's going for knees and such. He only uses what works and thats how it should be.

That's exactly it. Still, his success against me with the Falcon is limited to one game in a bracket set and 1 game in a pool set with 2 stocks against me. I have a good feeling I can counteract his C.F. now for sure, which means he will either go IC's (lollol), MK again (oh boy, gunna turn you into judge! /no offense judge/), or finally Snake (fudge that canadian maple syrup up!)

 

[Acedude55]

Falcon is annoying when you're wario
if you think its so easy think again

I pretty much stopped giving a **** about matchup threads and SWF in general so i don't write wall of texts explaining **** in detail.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Falcon is annoying when you're wario
if you think its so easy think again

I pretty much stopped giving a **** about matchup threads and SWF in general so i don't write wall of texts explaining **** in detail.

It's not hard. You just need to be patient and space properly. Falcon sucks and falcon mains should feel bad. It's a shame that ally trolled this thread so much. Actually what's worse than ally trolling this thread is people actually believing the non sense.

 

[bassem6]

dude, I beat you online with my falcon. How is it nonsense, if you youreself lost? If its such an easy MU for wario and you know all the right things to do then you should have been able to beat me. I dont even second falcon.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

dude, I beat you online with my falcon. How is it nonsense, if you youreself lost? If its such an easy MU for wario and you know all the right things to do then you should have been able to beat me. I dont even second falcon.

I got bored and stopped camping if I would of camped the whole time you wouldn't of won at all. The MU isn't hard at all it's in fact very easy. I barely have to do anything in the MU avoid uair? Basically in this MU i'd rather be on the Wario end of the mU and not the falcon end. Yeah Falcon has some shenningans on wario? who doesn't? It's not enough for this MU to be even. Also it's wifi I'm pretty sure I had more wins on that day then you had and if we factor in how the games went when we first placed I think it's pretty safe to say that falcon sucks.

Oh and incase you didn't know Ally went falcon against Glutonny and lost. Then went back to snake. That's a far cry from ALly's claim of taking any Wario main with Falcon since the MU is in falcons favor and it's sooo good for falcon however believe the hype if you want to bassem.

 

[bassem6]

Im not saying its super good for falcon. I think its about even. And rebaz, one of the best falcons lives in europe, so gluttony probably has played him and is familiar with the MU.

 

[Damage Points]

So much hatred on the wario boards.

 

[Dynomite]

So much hatred on the wario boards.

It hurts me inside.

Makes me not want to wear my Wario hat

 

[Lord Chair]

Im not saying its super good for falcon. I think its about even. And rebaz, one of the best falcons lives in europe, so gluttony probably has played him and is familiar with the MU.

No offense, but you don't know **** about Europe.

Rebaz no longer plays Brawl, and is no longer our best Falcon. He has never played against Glutonny. Ramin is our best Falcon now, he also lives in the Netherlands (30 minutes from my place, to be exact).

 

[Padô]

Stupid post.

Delete this.

 

[bassem6]

No offense, but you don't know **** about Europe.

Rebaz no longer plays Brawl, and is no longer our best Falcon. He has never played against Glutonny. Ramin is our best Falcon now, he also lives in the Netherlands (30 minutes from my place, to be exact).

Hmm, well has Ramin played against gluttony? And woah I didnt know rebaz quit. That stinks

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Im not saying its super good for falcon. I think its about even. And rebaz, one of the best falcons lives in europe, so gluttony probably has played him and is familiar with the MU.

Zelda also can GR > LK Wario can we call that MU even as well ?

 

[bassem6]

Zelda also can GR > LK Wario can we call that MU even as well ?

No, but falcon has more than just GR knee.