Wario Q&A Thread

[tedeth]

I've been playing Wario for aaaaages as a secondary, but I'm using Wolf/Wario about 50/50 now.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

how is marth overrated?

His match ups mostly.

I've been playing Wario for aaaaages as a secondary, but I'm using Wolf/Wario about 50/50 now.

That's cool. You struggle against Marth with Wolf and wario? That's pretty weird.

 

[tedeth]

I wouldn't say I "struggle". Every game me and Shaya have is really close. He's about the only person in the country that can beat me consistantly though.

He loses to out top MK and Diddy, both of whome I beat... so.... I donno...

EDIT: Well I guess that could be called struggling, but yeah we have close games.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

I wouldn't say I "struggle". Every game me and Shaya have is really close. He's about the only person in the country that can beat me consistantly though.

He loses to out top MK and Diddy, both of whome I beat... so.... I donno...

Ah I see my bad then I thought you hated marth because you struggled in the match up. That's what I get for assuming I guess.

 

[tedeth]

Actually without grab releases I would beat Shaya everytime we played imo.

I shouldn't say "I hate marth", it's more like "I hate grab releases".

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Actually without grab releases I would beat Shaya everytime we played imo.

I shouldn't say "I hate marth", it's more like "I hate grab releases".

LoL don't get grabbed. I know it's mad cliche =/.

 

[AvariceX]

So I'm thinking about picking up Wario for tourney play. I've been maining Ness for so long and while it's really fun I'd like to actually see some results sometime. I tried Snake and MK for a while with minimal success; Snake just isn't mobile enough for me and MK is too slow in the air and feels awkward to me after playing Ness for so long. Then I realized there's another character in this game with great mobility around the same weight class as Ness and who is actually a top tier... and is someone I've been using as an occasional secondary in funsies for a year anyway; then I slapped myself for being so blind.

I'm not really sure what I should start with as far as learning him though. Air camping, weaving in and out of range to attack, and not getting grabbed all came with the territory of playing Ness so I've got those pretty well down pat. But yeah, I don't know much about Wario beyond the basics, so what advanced stuff should I start with? (sorry it's kind of a broad question I know)

 

[Humpy Thrashabout]

Are you going to learning with humans or just learning some AT's with computers?

If you are doing it with humans than I would suggest just try getting down some basic cross-ups. Make your opponent guess on which side of them you are going to land. Mess around with Nair, it's crazy useful for baiting moves. If the first hit is on shield retreat out of range or go behind them as they try and attack OoS. Also mixing in shield pressure with Dair is always a good idea.

If it's against computers you can learn to DACUS. (in a dash, Down C-Stick -> Up+Z if you didn't know). Getting down the buffered chain grab is useful. It can be done on DK, Bowser, CF, Falco, and Wolf to varying percents.
I guess you could learn how to auto-wipe the bike. Walk to the edge of a stage and walk off and immediately turn around and bike. It should land on the stage with you next to it in prime position to throw it off for an edge guard.
If you check back at bbow.freehostia.com in about a week my website should be done with the most up-to-date matchups and descriptions and videos for the ATs. Please forgive my shameless plugging.

 

[Lord Chair]

I can sympathize with tedeth, considering Shaya's way of doing the MU.

*cough* fair wall and nothing else *cough*

edit: Humpy, I understand you enthusiasm but most of those things are known on these boards

 

[Humpy Thrashabout]

Oh I forgot about the reason I looked in this thread in the first place. I was reading some old threads and someone mentioned something interesting.
When you're on the respawn platform the waft charge timer still counts. Does anyone ever chill in respawn to get a little extra charge? Granted it's only ~6 seconds, but why the hell not. Especially on matchups where you have to camp the waft hard.

 

[toobusytocare]

Oh I forgot about the reason I looked in this thread in the first place. I was reading some old threads and someone mentioned something interesting.
When you're on the respawn platform the waft charge timer still counts. Does anyone ever chill in respawn to get a little extra charge? Granted it's only ~6 seconds, but why the hell not. Especially on matchups where you have to camp the waft hard.

i think we all do this already o_O

 

[Humpy Thrashabout]

edit: Humpy, I understand you enthusiasm but most of those things are known on these boards

Actually EVERYTHING I'm putting on there is already known on these boards, I'm just trying to find a more efficient way to communicate it. People like AvericeX are the reason I think it's necessary. We have guides and frame data and matchup discussions, but it's kind of disorganized.

And this is in no way anyone's fault, it's just sort of the nature of a forum to get that way.

EDIT: Just to bring the point home, if I wanted to learn how to auto-wipe the bike, where would I look? Even beyond that, what stickied thread would even indicate that is a possibility?

 

[PhantomX]

Yeah, chilling on the plat is awesome.

I love when Marth's fair wall. It makes their spacing so much easier to figure out and more predictable, and I tend to start getting pokes in after the fair swing has started and quickly rack up the damage. Personally upair and uptilt aggravate me more.

 

[AvariceX]

Are you going to learning with humans or just learning some AT's with computers?

If you are doing it with humans than I would suggest just try getting down some basic cross-ups. Make your opponent guess on which side of them you are going to land. Mess around with Nair, it's crazy useful for baiting moves. If the first hit is on shield retreat out of range or go behind them as they try and attack OoS. Also mixing in shield pressure with Dair is always a good idea.

If it's against computers you can learn to DACUS. (in a dash, Down C-Stick -> Up+Z if you didn't know). Getting down the buffered chain grab is useful. It can be done on DK, Bowser, CF, Falco, and Wolf to varying percents.
I guess you could learn how to auto-wipe the bike. Walk to the edge of a stage and walk off and immediately turn around and bike. It should land on the stage with you next to it in prime position to throw it off for an edge guard.

The first paragraph of your post is pretty much the basics of Ness; I would have gave up on this game a long time ago if I hadn't learned all that by now (of course the specific moves are a little different between characters). I played Snake for a while so dacus is no problem, the buffered CG's though are something I should learn. Also I didn't actually know about the auto bike wipe so thanks for that.

As far as camping the spawn platform goes; this is brawl, I'm pretty sure everyone should do that regardless of character. When you're also playing one of the best campers in the game who happens to have a move that passively charges over time I'm pretty sure it should go without saying.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

[collapse=I'm just going to leave this here...]
Wario: The Cadet (based off of Kit's wario build) [Alpha v0.9999]
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?yzexjzrxrnq

Fair sped up 1.5x starting on frame 6
Unangled Fsmash changed to shortened version of Warioman Fsmash. Doubled endlag, damage 16->11. Angled fsmashes are the original (short but much more powerful) fsmashes, whereon Hitbox and invincibility stays out 10 frames longer.
Usmash changed to Warioman's Usmash
Dtilt spikes and is jump-cancelable on frame 10
Fthrow kbg strengthened
Up B final hit kbg strengthened
Super armor on all of jab 1
Jab 2 damage +3
Dash attack has invincibility frames 3-36, speed x1.3 frames 5-49
Ftilt has Heavy Armor (12) during windup animation. angle 361->30. Damage 14->20.
Utilt speed after hitbox comes out x2
Dsmash has invincibility as long as the hitbox is out. Damage on all hits up, all hits hit like strong hit. Power up.
Nair invincibility frames 15-30. Damage on first hit 9->13, Angle 40->77. Late hit damage 4->6, angle 361->310. Landing animation hitbox damage 9, trajectory 90, BKB 37, KBG 0.
Fair full animation speed x2
Bair landing lag quartered. Damage 10->13. SA from 9-33
Uair hitbox disjointed down. Invincible about 6 frames on either side of the clap.
Dair shield damage 1E->2E. Last hit damage 4->6
UpB should send him flying like warioman's. Also, make it harder to DI out of.
Bite Individual bite damage 2->3, hitlag 1->0.

DownB:
-Lowest charge: tripping hitbox deals 10 damage. endlag halved.
-Second lowest charge: Angle 45->80, BKB 14->34, allow interrupt after frame 11
-Half waft hitbox comes out frame 1
-Full waft fart hitbox comes out frame 4, KBG 1E->40. Headbutt attack damage 20->40, BKB 0->40, Hitlag multiplier x4

Bthrow has IASA during the ***-waggle after hitting
Fthrow damage 11->15
Uthrow KBG 46->0, BKB 3C->5C (should combo into various things, lemme know if it doesn't).
Dthrow damage 3->6, angle 130->170, KBG 12->32 (this could be stupid. Stay tuned)
Nasty Surprise on grab break (when wario breaks out of a grab into the air).
Airdodge invincibility frames from 1-10 instead of 4-29. Makes it worse and more punishable, but not quite useless.
Spotdodge invincibility frames from 1-10 instead of 2-20. Actually, this one is just downright bad.
Weight 107->110
Jump H initial velocity 1.3->2[/collapse]

Abuse with caution. AFAIK, we don't have any wario mains on the project, so I want to see if any warios here can see how stupid this is (the rest of the currently available stuff is here). I technically shouldn't be sending this your way, but w/e, **** it, wario needs some playtesting, lol.

 

[Popertop]

that is rediculous

 

[DMG]

INVINCIBLE DSMASH!

DTILT SPIKE!

WAFT FRAME 1!

SUPER ARMOR ON ENTIRE JAB!

INVINCIBLE NAIR!

What are these shenanigans? lol

 

[Humpy Thrashabout]

Has anyone tested this? Could you tell me the grab release surprise? I want to piss into my opponent's open mouth whenever I get GR'd. If they insta-death or their shield breaks, I will hack out my wii just to play this.

 

[PhantomX]

It's instant full waft if they grab release you.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Hey I was wondering if I can get some tips on recovering on the stage from the ledge. Being falling into the same routine and getting punished for it. Also any ledge traps wario has against an opponent would be helpful also.

 

[Lord Chair]

Hey I was wondering if I can get some tips on recovering on the stage from the ledge. Being falling into the same routine and getting punished for it. Also any ledge traps wario has against an opponent would be helpful also.

You can try to confuse your opponent by airdodging around the ledge a bit. Wario is pretty good at coming back overall, if someone is walling you you should be able to airdodge through it and continue your game. Some people may just shield near the ledge, which shouldn't be an issue for you since you're able to bite, or just fair poke all day. Really, your opponent should feel forced to stay free from the ledge. When this is the case you can simply ledgejump and perhaps even bike (though I can't say I recommend that) to get back on the stage safely.

I really don't know what this routine you're speaking of consists of, but Wario has enough options on the ledge to make the whole ordeal not much of an issue.

EDIT: Ledgetraps again depend on the opponent, something simply fair walling (yeah really) can be effective enough. Against Marth though, you should just space and shield when expecting a fair (in order to shieldgrab > fthrow > you got Marth offstage without second jump > win) or predict a ledgejump (his getup attacks are really crappy and punishable). Against some characters Bite is stupidly good, especially when their getup attack doesn't have invincibility frames on the hitbox. Just toy around in different matchups and see what works best.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

INVINCIBLE DSMASH!

DTILT SPIKE!

WAFT FRAME 1!

SUPER ARMOR ON ENTIRE JAB!

INVINCIBLE NAIR!

What are these shenanigans? lol

It's for Brawl-, and I'm sending it your way in hopes that someone who mains wario can tell me how stupid he is in comparison to everyone else. I mean, seeing as we gave Marth 3 jumps, I'm guessing this isn't going to be too bad.

It's instant full waft if they grab release you.

Does that connect on most chars (or at least the ones that matter, like bowser/DDD/snake, the ones that **** with GRs)? I have no idea and no chance to test >.>

 

[PhantomX]

I was under the impression taht if Wario got GR in Brawl-, he got a full waft, but was still vulnerable to the grab release followup.

 

[smashkng]

So if grab release frames in Brawl- are the same, how does he jump break? Jumping as high as Jigglypuff? Or at least high enough so that follow up with a grab with characters like Yoshi/Ike/Bowser/Ganon/Sheik is IMPOSSIBLE.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

You misunderstand. If he is grab released, he should literally just do a full waft instead of the grab release animation. It's supposed to nail the opponent too...

 

[Masky]

..........

 

[Humpy Thrashabout]

From the Dedede boards:

Characters that can chain grab King Dedede
Falco
Down Throw -> 54%
Pikachu
Down Throw -> 90+%
Wario
->Standing infinite boost grab
Dthrow, boost Dthrow until around 192%

WHAT!? Is this correct?

 

[Lord Chair]

From the Dedede boards:

Characters that can chain grab King Dedede
Falco
Down Throw -> 54%
Pikachu
Down Throw -> 90+%
Wario
->Standing infinite boost grab
Dthrow, boost Dthrow until around 192%

WHAT!? Is this correct?

So starting from 0%, all you have to do is consistently buffer a turnaround first, then the standing boost grab (all in the 10 frame buffer timeframe), just like 70 times in a row, consistently?

Easy.

 

[PhantomX]

Oh god... that would be horrible to get down, but amazingly hilarious if we do.

Link to the original post/thread and whether or not it's been confirmed to be legitimate or not?

 

[Humpy Thrashabout]

I don't give a **** how hard it is, if I could infinite a D3 I could die happy. I hate that matchup more than anything.

 

[Lord Chair]

Oh god... that would be horrible to get down, but amazingly hilarious if we do.

Link to the original post/thread and whether or not it's been confirmed to be legitimate or not?

Ironic that we have to spend hours into timing a chaingrab that lasts like 3 minutes as some sort of twisted joke to mow into our chaingrabbing nemesis' face?

Quite.

 

[PhantomX]

Like Humpy said, no matter how difficult or time consuming it is, the fact that we could pretty much CG the CGer to death would be sweet sweet irony. I already love that we can do it to Falco.

 

[Blue Rogue]

I'm having trouble understanding what a standing boost grab is. But I can't even do the one on Falco yet so lol.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

I'm having trouble understanding what a standing boost grab is. But I can't even do the one on Falco yet so lol.

I don't think the boost grab is that important. As for the Cg I struggle with it also but it's still a great asset that all Wario mains should have done.

 

[Humpy Thrashabout]

The CG on Falco doesn't require the standing boost grab. You just need to buffer a turnaround during the d-throw animation and then regrab.

A boost grab is similar to a DACUS. During a dash you hit down on the c-stick to start a dash attack and then cancel it with z to do a grab. I've always had trouble with the DACUS, but I started learning the boost grab and it made DACUS a hundred times easier.

I'm not completely sure what they mean about a standing one, but I think it's when you start from stand still and during the acceleration animation you start the DA. Just do the boost grab before you reach a full-out run and that should be it.

 

[smashkng]

Falco CAN'T force Wario to jump break, so how it's done? In the edge?

 

[Humpy Thrashabout]

What? I have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[shaSLAM]

you just grab after 50%

i got a question.

how does bassem throw out so many f smashes and get away with it?

i cant.

 

[PhantomX]

SLAM. I don't get it either, it doesn't work for me, and we often go to the same tournaments -_-

 

[DMG]

Because he buffers them when you expect Wario not to do one. "Hey, Wario hit my shield with a Dair and is close and I am at 40%." "FSMASH!!!!" *Bam*