want CLOUD STRIFE in brawl? official thread.

[HiddenTiger]

Cant you FF fans just accept that Cloud doesnt need to make appearances in all games you can think of? If Nintendo asked Square to borrow a character it would be someone else. Geno is most likely, but some Classic FF character would be good to since they atleast stared in recent and older Nintendo games.

Exactly. Cloud doesn't need to be whored around in every game that involves video game characters. There are dozens more Square characters that deserve it more than Cloud does. Fanboy rantings aside, there is absolutely no reason to include Cloud in Brawl.

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

Anybody who wants Cloud and Sephiroth in a fighting game should play Ergheiz or download their files for M.U.G.E.N

 

[DippnDots]

sorry to burst your bubble. never in a million years would i want this, nor will it ever happen. bad blood between N and Square over FF7 and the move to PS.

besides, square characters aren't true mascots. with the exception of FFX-2, and soon Dirge of Cerebus, they only get one game. let them stay where they belong.

why would anyone pick cloud for this game and not, say, squall? or cecil? or sephiroth? or kefka? or gogo? or... etc. etc. we don't have space for the Final Fantasy Universe, and i really can't say Smash would be better with their presence. in fact, i think it'd bring the game down.

if you want a FF fighting game, contact square.

or get ergheiz (playstation), where you can fight as cloud

 

[Seth'White Fox']

Hello everyone! Seth here. Now I’m grounded and may not get back on the computer for a long time from now so I’m going to try and cover everything I can in this single thread. I will derive from all I have read from previous threads.(Although Will not quote everything for I have to do this in MS Word because I’m afraid that while typing this my internet may go weird again.)

Cloud… A character under much debate by both sides. Some don’t want him because of hate, some don’t want him because of his longevity, and would like the series to stop, while others want him because of just the fact he is Cloud, while others want him as a fun character to play as. Regardless, many reasons and counter reasons have been stated as to him being a playable character in Brawl, the newest inclusion in the Smash lineup. I will now go over these many facts and opinions and try to express as many fact as I can for both sides of the issue, but first to progress forward we must first start at the begging.

BACKSTORY

Cloud was a mercenary in a organization called “Soldier”. Soldier worked for a electric company called “Shin-Ra” and protected its many generators called “Mako Generators”

Cloud quit Soldier and became a Mercenary for hire after his best friend, Zack, was killed by its members.

He and an anti Mako organization called “Avalanche” wanted to save the planet by destroying the Mako reactors, because the Mako was the planets lifestream.

Later a much larger threat came about. A evil man named “Seperoth” was driven mad because he had figured out he was manufactured by Shin-Ra to become a Soldier.(This is similar to what happened to Cloud.) He wanted to kill everyone and capture the specimen who gave cells for his creation. This creature was called “Jovena”. He wanted her remains so he might become the ultimate lifeform and destroy the planet. He massacred many people and set many towns ablaze so Clouds ragtag team quested to stop him.

Seperoth found a large mass of power called “Black Matera” and used it to summon a meteor to strike the planet. He wanted to do this so that when the planet tried to use the lifestream to recover after the blow Seperoth would be there to steal the lifestream for himself.

I wont give anything else away for his first game, now I shall discuss his chances as a character.

The reason he is eligible is because Sakuri made a rule. This rule stated that as long as a character was included in a Nintendo game they were eligible. Many of you still ask to this day: “Well doesn’t that rule Cloud out?”, but Cloud has indeed had this appearance. He was the center of a Sub Plot in “Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories.” I will explain his role so his appearance is known. Note that is has been a year since I've played that game so it will be vague. The coliseum torment is on again. Cloud, in order to reclaim his lost memories has made a deal with Hades to assonate Hercules. You later face Hades, who has been become infuriated by how long its taking, he cancels the deal and attacks Cloud, Hercules, and Sora.


Now enough of back story, now comes the hard part: disbanding reasons for including/not including him in Brawl. I will start with the Cloud for Brawl side.

WHY SHOULD HE BE INCLUDED/NOT INCLUDED

1)Cloud is overrated.- I very much agree. Please tell me why this matters. Most every successful franchise is a little bit overrated or underrated here and there. The fact that he is overrated just means that he has a large fan base to overrate him. Have you ever thought of it that way?


2)Cloud is “emo”.- Hmmm.. Interesting way to state that, but that can be worked with. Yes Cloud is “emo”. Want to know something that may hurt some people’s feelings? Almost every character in a RPG is a little “emo”. Yes from Cloud all the way down to Geno and all the way past Chrono, almost every RPG character is emo in some way shape and form. It is that sense of “emo” that gives a game its drama, gives it its humor, and gives it those characters we love to hate.(Like Slippy from Star Fox.) To those of you who have taken English class you must know what a Protagonist and an Antagonist is correct? You must know what a static character, and a changing character is. I dare you to tell me decent story with a protagonist who doesn’t change.


3)________ Character is better than Cloud.- Please elaborate. Tell me “Why”. Otherwise your statement is nothing more than an opinion.


4)________ Character would be awkward in Brawl.- I can relate and understand this statement. Sure a character this far from home would be hard to get used to. It may take awhile as well, but if we keep looking at it like this than we will never have any great and different games. This could be a step over the hurdle of character confusion. Perhaps letting a major character such as Cloud would sort of pave the way for other third parties. After he or another unexpected character(Like not from Nintendo ORIGNALY) would make it feel less weird for other companies to try it out for there star character.


5)Cloud sucks./Cloud will never be in Brawl.- My friend, I mean this from the bottom of my heart. You suck, want to know why? Because you feel that your opinion is above others. You believe that you are Cesar and you can instantly give a thumbs up or a thumbs down and a thread will die. Learn some respect or get off this board you lurker, hater, trolling, unintelligent, flaming, spamming, dumb***. I apologize for use of langue, but I don’t apologize for the general point of that paragraph.


6)Geno/ Chrono/ BM/ other FF character will get in first.- Square & Nintendo are video game companies. As friendly as they look on the outside they are companies. Sure they strive for quality, good storyline, and a fun gaming experience, but in the end they are companies. As companies Nintendo and Square both have something they both love and need to survive. Money. The smell of a crisp clean One-Hundred bill would make any programmer piss them selves, especially when the 100s come in the thousands! Square’s star, there poster character, if you will, (To other FF fans grief) is Cloud! Want to know how I know this? Final Fantasy Seven has a core game, a movie, a spin-off with a secret character, a cell phone game, a amine, and tons and tons of merchandise. The other games, although more than deserving, don’t have these. Know why? Square loves Cloud and Clouds fans love Cloud. Cloud is, like many characters, a hore. Hores like Cloud, Mario, Link, and many others sell. They sell a lot! Square will profit the most for giving Nintendo the rights to Cloud than any other.(Also realize that the inclusion of Cloud doesn’t mean other Square characters are dead.)

Now for the Cloud stay out of Brawl side:

1)Cloud “R0x 0Rz”.- Stop spamming you stupid obsessive unintelligent fanboy.


2)Clouds back-story rules.- Since when has Smash brothers had a back-story? Back-story don’t matter in this scenario.


Ummm…. Sorry Cloud out of Brawl side I really can’t think of anything else.


I may add a move set as well as to demonstrate as to why he would be a fun character, but I’m wasting my ungrounded ness. C ya later. WhiteFox out.

MOVESET

Maby later...

 

[Yoshi]

Cloud redefined Squaresoft in Final Fantasy VII at the time with graphics and **** no other game saw before, which basically paved the future for videogames of the time. Hands down he will not be added in Brawl. I would wish he would though, but would never happen.

 

[Maverick69]

1) It's jenova not jovena in the backstory

2) I still disagree with cloud being in. Look at my previous posts for my many reasons why

3) thank you for having an IQ. at least you're intelligent in your cloud support.

 

[Cactuar]

I think it would be stupid for Nintendo to include Cloud, or any Final Fantasy character other than Cactuar into SSBB.

No worries, I'll be all over Brawl. :D

/endspam

 

[Seth'White Fox']

Dante deamon slayer although you have nicely express your oponion you have went agenst rule 5 of Cloud stay out of Brawl side. Although you have posted that you have posted such threds you have not cited speific examples so, no offence, that makes that kinda spam.
.
..
...
....
.....
XD
Just kidding.
You got me on the Jenova spelling so I wanted to get back ya beceause of that. lol

 

[Killjoyroy]

Cloud just doesn't belong in Brawl, imo. Nothing against the guy, he's kind of the cool and stuff...but I just don't feel that he fits.

 

[06Falcon]

personally i wont mind, though i think he will be broken with the range of his sword if included.

 

[Super Luigi!]

Cloud just doesn't belong in Brawl, imo. Nothing against the guy, he's kind of the cool and stuff...but I just don't feel that he fits.

No Cloud woundn't work because-
1- Nomura has some dignity unlike *cough* Hideo Kogima *Cough*
2-Making Cloud in Brawl would raise more than a few eyebrows because Solid Snake (a Konami character) is also with Sony.

I rest me case. Luigi!

 

[Aiser]

Cloud just doesn't belong in Brawl, imo. Nothing against the guy, he's kind of the cool and stuff...but I just don't feel that he fits.

The game has an elf with a sword, an italian plummer, a over grown spikey turtle, and pink puffball that swollows anything whole. What does fit in smash?

 

[Super Luigi!]

The game has an elf with a sword, an italian plummer, a over grown spikey turtle, and pink puffball that swollows anything whole. What does fit in smash?

Characters that belong to NINTENDO of course. But Hideo Kogima begged to get Solid Snake in Brawl so...

 

[Aiser]

Your point? Snakes in it, obviously thats not a factor anymore.

 

[06Falcon]

Characters that belong to NINTENDO of course. But Hideo Kogima begged to get Solid Snake in Brawl so...

hideo kojima is spelled with a j, not a g.

i see your point here, two characters that were on a sony platform. but, as i said, i wont mind.

 

[Seth'White Fox']

No Cloud woundn't work because-
1- Nomura has some dignity unlike *cough* Hideo Kogima *Cough*
2-Making Cloud in Brawl would raise more than a few eyebrows because Solid Snake (a Konami character) is also with Sony.

I rest me case. Luigi!

Exept one thing. Cloud is from Square NOT Sony. Also Snake is from Konomi NOT Square.
I rest MY case.

 

[HiddenTiger]

Seth, you have done a fine job until now providing arguments that are both intelligent and have a valid point. You've done quite well in making counterpoints agains anti-Cloud arguments. But let me ask you this: are there any actual reasons for Cloud to be put in Brawl? The only two that seem to have been offered are ones you argued against yourself:

1)Cloud “R0x 0Rz”.- Stop spamming you stupid obsessive unintelligent fanboy.


2)Clouds back-story rules.- Since when has Smash brothers had a back-story? Back-story don’t matter in this scenario.

Other than those, I've yet to see any actual reason that Cloud deserves it more than any other 3rd party does.

 

[Seth'White Fox']

Hidden Tiger thank you, both for the complement and for reading my post, even though it was very long.

,And to answer your question thats beceause I didn't want to help eaither side I only wanted to post anoying reasons that people shouldent post. If you truely want my reasons than here: 1) I belive he would be a fun character to play as, 2) it might open doors to new non-Nintendo characters, and 3), this being my only selfish reason, beceause I have watched the Smash Brothers:Brawl trailer and I want him to be portrayed in that style.

I will admit it, I'm not perfect not all my reasons are good ones, but I belive that Cloud would be fun for others aswell so I support him. Even if I didn't like him I'd support him beceause all he would take up is one solotary character slot, and that doesent bug me much.

 

[littlewolf]

He would be good in the game but "as shown by this board" many would be outraged plus he is a unlikely 3rd party character being only from square.

 

[Link226]

Having Cloud in the game would be great...he would be a great character, his move set would be great....and hes ****in CLoud for god sakes!!!

But people need to remember...smashboards isnt the world...not everybody feels the way almost everybody on here feels. They feel since a character is not from Nintendo (specifically Sony or in this case....anything to do with Playstation) the games horrible, it would mess up the game, the game will be destroyed

But most likely (9.5/10) Cloud wont be in it because hes fully from square and was first seen on playstation. He has absolutely nothing to do wit Nintendo....even tho Cloud is better and cooler than more than half of Nintendos characters

 

[Super Luigi!]

I'm not sayin' the game will suck just because a character from a different compony than Sony (ie: Konami, Sqaure,) . The problem is that these componies games are mostly only on the PS2. Yes Solid Snake may very well be a good addition to Brawl. BUT!!!... I not very fond of a character that comes from a compony allied with Sony. All in all, having Cloud would be cool. But unfitting.

 

[06Falcon]

Having Cloud in the game would be great...he would be a great character, his move set would be great....and hes ****in CLoud for god sakes!!!

But people need to remember...smashboards isnt the world...not everybody feels the way almost everybody on here feels. They feel since a character is not from Nintendo (specifically Sony or in this case....anything to do with Playstation) the games horrible, it would mess up the game, the game will be destroyed

But most likely (9.5/10) Cloud wont be in it because hes fully from square and was first seen on playstation. He has absolutely nothing to do wit Nintendo....even tho Cloud is better and cooler than more than half of Nintendos characters

he would be great. sure, i eman, he would have the longest range of any character. that sword of his is huge. and his super smash would be the that move he does agains sephiroth in advent children.

but thats also why he would be bad in the game. he would be broken.

 

[The Bino]

he would be great. sure, i eman, he would have the longest range of any character. that sword of his is huge. and his super smash would be the that move he does agains sephiroth in advent children.

but thats also why he would be bad in the game. he would be broken.

Cloud would be as broken as Marth... now if u look at it like that then everything makes sense for Cloud to enter... i mean look at how long Marths sword is, his grabbing range is huge... just everything bout Marth screams BROKEN.... don't believe me then face a really good Marth player and watch what they use.... moves have the largest range in the game...

Cloud would fit in just as Marth fits in.... the only real conflict is where he is coming from... Square.... and he is with Square not Sony.... and here is the kicker guys, u all ***** and moan bout Cloud but why is it that he can't enter into the game (he has made his appearance on a Nintendo System) and he is also attached to another company, yet Sonic is coming from Sega, Sega of all company's... the company that was Nintendo's main competition back when it was released as just NES.... and i don't hear ppl complaining that Sonic has a chance to come into the game....

 

[The Franchise]

Cloud would fit in just as Marth fits in.... the only real conflict is where he is coming from... Square.... and he is with Square not Sony.... and here is the kicker guys, u all ***** and moan bout Cloud but why is it that he can't enter into the game (he has made his appearance on a Nintendo System) and he is also attached to another company, yet Sonic is coming from Sega, Sega of all company's... the company that was Nintendo's main competition back when it was released as just NES.... and i don't hear ppl complaining that Sonic has a chance to come into the game....

There's a crucial difference between Sonic and Cloud. Sonic has actually had real game appearences on all the various Nintnedo systems for quite some time now. Many of these were also Nintendo exclusive and couldn't be found on other systems. Cloud on the other hand has had one small appearence in one game which makes him technically eligible for Brawl. It has nothing to do with the company a character is from, it has to do with the contribution they have made to Nintendo.

 

[06Falcon]

Cloud would be as broken as Marth... now if u look at it like that then everything makes sense for Cloud to enter... i mean look at how long Marths sword is, his grabbing range is huge... just everything bout Marth screams BROKEN.... don't believe me then face a really good Marth player and watch what they use.... moves have the largest range in the game...

Cloud would fit in just as Marth fits in.... the only real conflict is where he is coming from... Square.... and he is with Square not Sony.... and here is the kicker guys, u all ***** and moan bout Cloud but why is it that he can't enter into the game (he has made his appearance on a Nintendo System) and he is also attached to another company, yet Sonic is coming from Sega, Sega of all company's... the company that was Nintendo's main competition back when it was released as just NES.... and i don't hear ppl complaining that Sonic has a chance to come into the game....

quit being so **** negative about what I said. if you paid any attention to what I have said, you would see i have nothing agains cloud being in the game. in fact i welcome him. why? because it means that square is showing interest in the wii and that means we get more games from square for the wii. when I said the thing about the sword, i meant it. he would be a broken character, and just for the exact reasons you said it would be fair. i was just pointing out the facts that many of the cloud hatters were thinking, and to be blunt, I agree with them. but I have nothing against him being in it.

 

[Seth'White Fox']

Why do so many people think he will be broken. If you just think you can see sevral ways to make him not broken.

 

[HiddenTiger]

As I've said before, it is pointless to argue how good, bad, broken, or underratted a character will end up being in Smash until the game actually comes out. You cannot argue how good Cloud might be when it is still unknown whether or not he will make it in, much less when the game is so far away.

And now I would just like to say this: Cloud should not be in Brawl because there is absolutely no reason to include him. The only arguments I've seen on his behalf are either:

A) Cloud is awesome

or

B) Cloud would be awesome

Neither of which are valid points, the first one being pure opinion, and the second for the reason I've stated earlier. If there's any actual reason Cloud deserves it more than other 3rd party characters, I'd like to see it.

Besides, adding to the already large pile of reasons against Cloud, if he did make it in by some mistake, we'd probably end up with the even-more-emo, Vincent knock-off Cloud from the original KH, because that's the only one that's ever been on a Nintendo console.

 

[Sempuukyaku]

Snake is one thing. Snake is obscure enough where people can forget what system he's really from. But Cloud, Cloud is undeniably immortalized in every gamers mind as Sony property. Smash Bros. has always been about the Nintendo Characters. It's the same reason why Sonic wouldn't make it: he's too well known under a different system label.

Come on, man. Sega hasn't released a system in 7 years and Sonic is now readily availble across ALL platforms. Sega is well established now as a third-party developer and Sonic would be a PERFECT fit for Smash Bros.


I can understand reservations about Cloud....but Sonic? No way.

 

[Destruction_King]

Anyone who supports Cloud must face one undeniable truth that will chill you to the bone upon realizing it. And unfortunately, it would wind up here on Smashboards.

Upon Cloud's inclusion into Brawl, every Cloud/ Sephiroth fanboy would plague this forum like locusts posting nonsequitar random crap such as "Omg Cloud iz m3h b15h13" and so forth, not only ultimately killing McFox due to a heart attack sustained by deleting so many topics, but forcing the rest of us regular posters to flee to new forums.

But that's only the beginning...


Soon, Cloud fans would fight for Sephiroth or Tifa to be in the next installment of Brawl since (in their words) "Link g0t Z31d@ N Gnundork (lolz) Y n0t T1fa or S3ph1e?"

This would force the next installment to include one or both of them. The combination of fanboys/girls who rapidly enter Smash forums would kill both the games and any forum we could make. Every day, a new Smashboards would be made, and everyday, a new plague of fanboys/girls would repeat the process of systematically taking over each forum with nonsense, until the intelligent posters are forced to flee, and the fanboys/girls would leave behind the vast forum wasteland in order to see something else. Some news or new information. Or some unlucky poster who hasn't heard how "awsume" Cloud is.

Do you want that to happen to Smashboards? To the series? To Nintendo?

Look what it did to Kingdom Hearts...

 

[littlewolf]

Cloud would be a little broken but still nintendo and square could work around it? I mean there is more to cloud than a sword.

 

[Seth'White Fox']

QUOTE Destruction_King
Anyone who supports Cloud must face one undeniable truth that will chill you to the bone upon realizing it. And unfortunately, it would wind up here on Smashboards.

Upon Cloud's inclusion into Brawl, every Cloud/ Sephiroth fanboy would plague this forum like locusts posting nonsequitar random crap such as "Omg Cloud iz m3h b15h13" and so forth, not only ultimately killing McFox due to a heart attack sustained by deleting so many topics, but forcing the rest of us regular posters to flee to new forums.

But that's only the beginning...


Soon, Cloud fans would fight for Sephiroth or Tifa to be in the next installment of Brawl since (in their words) "Link g0t Z31d@ N Gnundork (lolz) Y n0t T1fa or S3ph1e?"

This would force the next installment to include one or both of them. The combination of fanboys/girls who rapidly enter Smash forums would kill both the games and any forum we could make. Every day, a new Smashboards would be made, and everyday, a new plague of fanboys/girls would repeat the process of systematically taking over each forum with nonsense, until the intelligent posters are forced to flee, and the fanboys/girls would leave behind the vast forum wasteland in order to see something else. Some news or new information. Or some unlucky poster who hasn't heard how "awsume" Cloud is.

Do you want that to happen to Smashboards? To the series? To Nintendo?

Look what it did to Kingdom Hearts...
END QUOTE



Cloud isent the only charcter with a fan base. As long as a character is introduced there will be a person who says "*Blah* 15 teh R0X0rz". Also even if Cloud is introudced Tifa and Seperoth has not been of a Nintendo concel so people wanting them is would just be an impossible fantasy. Also, no offenmce, but I belive that the mojority of this site ARE ALLREADY unintelligent posters. Cloud wouldent make much of a difference.


QUOTE HiddenTiger
As I've said before, it is pointless to argue how good, bad, broken, or underratted a character will end up being in Smash until the game actually comes out. You cannot argue how good Cloud might be when it is still unknown whether or not he will make it in, much less when the game is so far away.

And now I would just like to say this: Cloud should not be in Brawl because there is absolutely no reason to include him. The only arguments I've seen on his behalf are either:

A) Cloud is awesome

or

B) Cloud would be awesome

Neither of which are valid points, the first one being pure opinion, and the second for the reason I've stated earlier. If there's any actual reason Cloud deserves it more than other 3rd party characters, I'd like to see it.

Besides, adding to the already large pile of reasons against Cloud, if he did make it in by some mistake, we'd probably end up with the even-more-emo, Vincent knock-off Cloud from the original KH, because that's the only one that's ever been on a Nintendo console.
END QUOTE

When it comes right down to it, thats all EVERY wanted charcter has as arguments. He/She/it would be cool, or he/she/it would not. The only expection to this rule is Nintendo characters who also have the "Nintendo charcter" exption.


Aside from that there is one singlelar other argument for Cloud. He would pave the way for others. I have stated this many times but it seems to be overlooked each and every time.

 

[Kalayo]

i'm not entirely for or against cloud being in ssbb. cloud is a cool character and all, but i don't think it would be correct to put him in.....i highly doubt that he will anyway, but if he does, that would be kind of wierd.....

 

[Link-NY]

cloud shouldnt be in brawl because....ehh why the fux should i explian? he has no chance of entering brawl at ALL plz leave this thread to die. BTW Cloud is gay

 

[Seth'White Fox']

Please no one even respond to this guy. He even gives Cloud haters a bad name.

To Kalyo Yeah I thought the same thing before evtering this thred, it took a long discussion period to accept him as a possibilty. Oh and by the way welcome to Smash Boards! Just try not to post like this guy above me and you'll be fine.

 

[Sovereignty]

Well let put it like this there are copywrite laws and if you check FF7 characters actualy dont belong to squaresoft at all Sony has the copyrights to them so they could never appear mainly cause sony is well money grubby and woudl want a huge amount of roalties if you ever wonder why there was a resident evil 4 on ps2 ebcaue sony payed capcom to break the contract stating they cannot reprudce the game for anyone excapt nintendo and payed what was lost ebcuase of the broken contract then payed more for development of a ps2 verson and tries to sell it and if you are thinking snake was never on a nintendo system snake was released on teh computer later to relase on the nes for several games and sony didnt pay grey fox to try to own the cc for snake like the did with all their popular ff games by putting sueing contracts to protect them from getting ff on other systems hell until reciently sony had a contract with squaresoft or was it sitll enix w/e but the contract prevent them from doing business with anyother company i mean you can shove generic character form teh ff series but taht is not fun oh i want to be lvl 100 black mage

 

[Sovereignty]

Oh yeah and if anyone realyl wants tifa not really a major major character to be in the game your jsut a pervert really dont make me explain that

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

Double posting aside....

Tifa is indeed a major characterm in the FF7 story line.

 

[Falling Whistness]

Why is this still being discussed? Hasn't Sakurai already said that the third party characters must have been in a game on a Nintendo system?

 

[06Falcon]

Why is this still being discussed? Hasn't Sakurai already said that the third party characters must have been in a game on a Nintendo system?

they justify his inclusion in brawl by saying he was in Kingdom hearts chain of memories

 

[Link-NY]

all FF characters suck >=)