Wam's Chaos Game Thread

[Swiss]

And Laser you got exactly 0 1 shots?

 

[Deadbananas]

No my post is accurate as his post, then. Doing something later is never the same as now

I disagree, based on how soon Laser voted afterwords, and how Laser's post you quoted was asking for permission to hammer, which is final and should be given some time.

 

[Swiss]

Thanks, I've really only just started on my read through, and I won't get much progress till tomorrow, but I'll keep those in mind for sure. Though I'm not sure how much it matters, since I'm thinking its Swiss currently, I don't think his arguments have addressed all the points, and some of them don't make sense to me. He's definitely good, but right now he looks in a corner.

This is to all three of you, if there are specific points that you want addressed I will do it.

 

[Swiss]

I disagree, based on how soon Laser voted afterwords, and how Laser's post you quoted was asking for permission to hammer, which is final and should be given some time.

You're wrong then

 

[Deadbananas]

You're wrong then

ditto

 

[Swiss]

And why defend laser here anyway? Why not Laser defend himself? What do you gain from this?

 

[LaserGuy]

And Laser you got exactly 0 1 shots?

Yes, that's right.

 

[Deadbananas]

And why defend laser here anyway? Why not Laser defend himself? What do you gain from this?

you questioned my read on laser earlier and wanted me to go into why I townread him, as well as I think your logic is flawed and I'm going to point that out. That's why I chose one thing, rather than giving my opinion on everything you adressed Laserguy with.

Give me a second to grab the points that I feel your defense didn't hit on well enough to dismay IMO. I've mentioned them before I think.

 

[Swiss]

I've played with Laseguy a handful of times and probably spectate his games the same number of times. I'm always in awe of his analytical abilities and I dont see Laserguy as scum here. Either he is right or completely wrong. One thing that stuck out that Lasegiy caught that I didn't see was the fact that tattertot only liked Swiss's votes. I have vague memories of an early quick game with tattertot as mafia where they shaped their scum partner's votes the whole game, and that would fit the pattern here. And Swiss in chat then told tattertot to stop liking posts. But I've also seen smart enough plays from them that I wonder of the possibility of purposefully choosing to keep swiss alive and those likes being a false trail.

If swiss was mafia, I fully expected Bessie to be alive. I was getting suspicious of Bessie, and, given me, Bessie and swiss together, it would have been a tough decision for me to decide. Given that Bessie was the nightkill, I fully suspect deadbanana now. Here I am working under the assumption that mafia is putting me in final 3 to make the decision. Based on my previous reads with deadbanana, swiss and I at the end, I would likely vote swiss. That's why Bessie being the nightkill pite deadbana in the best position as mafia and I can see them making that decision. Laserguy being my top town, I fully suspect him or I to be the nightkill, but likely laserguy if deadbana is the nightkill (if we voted no elimination). So now I'm in a tight spot where I'm sure it's either deadbanana or swiss. Feeling 50/50. I still want to do no elim. Cuz I still want to look do a completely re read of any two other players still alive before I make my final decision.

I haven't seen swiss claim yet. Did I miss it or has it not occured? I'll claim my role and my used action(s) only after swiss has. And if they don't, then I'm ok with voting swiss today.

Heury if I was scum with Tatter would I tell him to not like my posts in game?

And why would I kill Sabar if I was scum? He eased off on me and my bus put me, at least in my eyes, in the towncore. Why does Scum!Swiss shoot the vig (not that I knew he was vig) when I've already dodged the bullet?

 

[Swiss]

Yes, that's right.

I didn't think that was possible but re-reading seems it is

 

[Deadbananas]

This is to all three of you, if there are specific points that you want addressed I will do it.

I remember the post where you told him you overestimated him if he thought you were serious about vig.

I don't think that's part of the argument being made, but I'm still interested in your defense post when it comes out as a whole. Don't worry, I'm not interested in hammering this early and Heury seems set on no elim. I may be convinced to vote today since I think if I believe a case whole heartedly there's not much point in letting mafia kill one of the towns at night, but not until I get a defense atleast.

I actually took this the opposite way, I assumed Sabrar saying that most of the sus on Ranmaru came from his sus of you, since he was talking about making a case on Ran. As well as his later case post on Ran centered more around you.

If someone held a gun to my head night 1 and asked who the vig was, I probably would have said you, even if you denied it because you seem like the kind of player to do that, my second person would have been Sabrar though, since his reactions definitely seemed to have more than just frustration at role fishing in them. I may have been biased in this, since my only game with sabrar he was a vig and that stuck in my head, but that's honest. I do like occams razor for your other point here, but I'm having trouble finding a situation that is simple so far in this game currently, someone did something convulted somewhere.

These are my thoughts on your defenses against Laser's case that I thought didn't hold up.

 

[Swiss]

And whichever of you is scum I am in awe of the amount of work you two put into the game.

What happened to skimming, voting and generally being right? It's much more fun

 

[Deadbananas]

And whichever of you is scum I am in awe of the amount of work you two put into the game.

What happened to skimming, voting and generally being right? It's much more fun

ditto lol.

 

[Swiss]

1) There's nothing specific for me to respond to here - but I was clear I wasn't the vig by saying that then to Sabrar, as well as earlier posts to Somi, Heury and I think one other. I even crumbd it to Sabra "what did you say that 4" to crumb option '4' to him.

2) I mean sure maybe he did sus me more at that point than Ran

3) As you admit, Occams Razor works heavily in my favour. I specified I wasnt vig by end of day, and calling myself vig is part of what helped me clear Heury so I don;t regret it. If people maintain sus on something which is an easy meta clear that's not on me.

 

[Swiss]

The scenes post game when Heury was scum all along

 

[Deadbananas]

There's nothing specific for me to respond to here - but I was clear I wasn't the vig by saying that then to Sabrar, as well as earlier posts to Somi, Heury and I think one other.

I think thats clear yah, I just don't think that relates to the case at all.

I even crumbd it to Sabra "what did you say that 4" to crumb option '4' to him.

lol. I remember being confused about why you had that as terrible crumb by you in a catch up post, but just assuming you had the numbers wrong and ti wasn't worth asking. I'm pretty dumb sometimes

I mean sure maybe he did sus me more at that point than Ran

I think thats a pretty deal, since the strongest point against you is that worrying about Sabrar is the clearest motivation for anyone to bus, and that point in your defense falls, when combined with the main part of my next point, that I could have guessed Sabrar was the vig.

As you admit, Occams Razor works heavily in my favour. I specified I wasnt vig by end of day, and calling myself vig is part of what helped me clear Heury so I don;t regret it. If people maintain sus on something which is an easy meta clear that's not on me.

I wouldn't say heavily, since as I mentioned someone is doing something convoluted and not taking the simplest route here.

I have to go now though, I need to finish work and get to studying, I'll be back later, and against my better judgement I'll probably hop in to respond when I shouldn't.

 

[LaserGuy]

Suppose I'll go through this for completeness' sake:

Bit defensive borders on self meta

Ran's case on me was based on meta.

#380 Laser says the two most likely scumbuddies of Tatter are me, and Somi. Worth remembering. Would have thought he'd use this in his case against me? Why didnt he

I posted a giant case on you documenting multiple links between you and Tatter. But also, for the particular set of players we have left, that analysis is not particularly helpful.

It felt out of place then, and now. Why do scmu partner analysis, which is a lot of effort, on someone you think is town? Unless you know thy will flip scum, and want to have cases ready by association.

I explained this already in several places. You can see as far back as #190 that I was thinking about Tatter in the context of who would make sense as buddies for him given his style of play and the types of mistakes he was making. This was actually a point in his favour, as I ruled out most of the players as possible buddies for him. In the post you're referencing, I'm showing my work because bessie asked me to. Again, this should be clear from context.

Has the chance to vote Tatter, but doesn't.

It should be obvious from context that my intention here was to vote Tatter with Sabrar. I wasn't going to be around at deadline, and if he wanted to vote Tatter, I preferred to have the yeet out of reach rather than allow you/somi (who had indicated you may be back later), the chance to swing the yeet away from him. The wagons at this point were very close, and Sabrar was essentially the main swing vote at the time.

I feel like in years past I could clear/scum on this post alone. I just cannot tell. Bit defensive which is -ve
Feels like he wanted the chance to swap to Somi but Ran denied it, and he didnt have the cojones to swap himself.

There's no reason that I wouldn't have switched to somi if I were mafia here. I wasn't in any danger at this point.

 

[LaserGuy]

Vote: No Elimination.

I think I will feel more reassured by whatever simplification we get out of this.

 

[LaserGuy]

I hate how reasonable Swiss sounds. Makes me doubt everything.

 

[LaserGuy]

Actually, I'm just going to

Unvote

So the day doesn't accidentally get ended early.

 

[Swiss]

Laser were you active end of day 1?

I believed you were away

 

[LaserGuy]

Laser were you active end of day 1?

I believed you were away

I was around up until #519, about 2.5 hours before deadline.

 

[LaserGuy]

Vote Swiss

Think I'll put this back, actually. Looking over DB again I just don't see it. If either DB or heury is mafia I'm fine eating the loss here.

 

[Wam]

I have amended rule 4 as below.

4) Days will last for 5 days, nights 2 days with weekends counting as half time. If a majority is not reached the player with the highest vote count will be eliminated, and in the event of a tie the player who received the most votes first will be eliminated. Unless all players are voting and only 2 players, or one player and no elimination, are being voted for in which case it will be no elimination.

 

[Swiss]

^ I don't follow

 

[Wam]

As an example. 4 players alive. A votes b followed by b votes c. C and d dont vote. From there tie breaker applies and a is lynched. If a and c vote b and b and d vote a. It's a tie and become no elimination.

Hope that makes sense..

 

[Swiss]

Copy that gaffer

 

[Swiss]

The problem is my inactivity here means I’m the default lynch tomorrow. I need to push someone but I don’t know who.

I think I stand more chance of converting the DB vote but if he’s scum he stays on me regardless.

Laser is the main force behind my wagon - but that doesn’t make him scum. And I can’t just make a case on him because he’s pushing me. I need to make a case regardless as it’s 33% not 0% but now after openly saying I’m not sure how convincing will it really be?

Whoever is the scum well played - I think I will make a case to push Laser later today but even at this point it might flip

 

[Swiss]

I pray one of you has hidden a night action away

 

[Swiss]

Also if it’s apparent I don’t sway anyone over which is likely - I will self hammer as we haven’t seen a doc yet and no one would ever claim doc in thread regardless.

Wam can mafia no kill?

 

[Wam]

Yes, as per rule 12.

 

[Swiss]

Great, just great

 

[Wam]

Votals 4 alive 3 to lynch

No elimination - 1 - heury alone
Swiss - 1 - laserguy

Deadline april 1st 12pm gmt in about 41 hours.

 

[HeuryAlone]

Heury if I was scum with Tatter would I tell him to not like my posts in game?

And why would I kill Sabar if I was scum? He eased off on me and my bus put me, at least in my eyes, in the towncore. Why does Scum!Swiss shoot the vig (not that I knew he was vig) when I've already dodged the bullet?

Well that is what it seems like since there are only 2 posts liked by tatter and they happen to be yours.

Scum!swiss killing off sabrar makes sense that it would follow your big ballsey moves meta. And creates a lot of wifom. And does make deadbanana more suspicious. Personally, I think it was a pretty good choice killing sabrar for scum!swiss.

I'm sticking to no elimination for the day.

 

[Deadbananas]

Finished exams for this week. I should finish my read through tomorrow.

I plan on voting No elim today since I doubt Heury will change their mind, and Swiss probs won't vote themself. I'm interested in what Swiss's case on Laser will be, or if its on me what it will be. Swiss is definitely smart, and has played one hell of a game if he is mafia. He even still brings up good points I didn't think about, like I totally forgot about no kill, which seems like the smartest thing for any mafia besides Heury to do tonight, but I guess that still gives us info.

 

[HeuryAlone]

I think games where mafia and town is allowed to no kill/lynch is lame. One should be required to or it can become stalemate. (I think mafia should always be required to use their kill action)

 

[Swiss]

Well that is what it seems like since there are only 2 posts liked by tatter and they happen to be yours.

Scum!swiss killing off sabrar makes sense that it would follow your big ballsey moves meta. And creates a lot of wifom. And does make deadbanana more suspicious. Personally, I think it was a pretty good choice killing sabrar for scum!swiss.

I'm sticking to no elimination for the day.

He liked the posts because I was defending him. I was on his side.

Calling me scum for that is ****ing dumb my friend. Especially when you refuse to clear me for ensuring he was the lynch.

How him liking two posts outweighs a clutch re read, flip of my opinion and crucial lynch vote is beyond me. You are not looking at the game to hunt scum, you’re looking for reasons you can call me scum and these are two very different things

 

[Swiss]

Tatter literally removed Laser from his reads list - yet you ignore this fact.

Tatter likes a Swiss post = must be scum.

You’re tunnelling and that’s on you

 

[Swiss]

Well that is what it seems like since there are only 2 posts liked by tatter and they happen to be yours.

Scum!swiss killing off sabrar makes sense that it would follow your big ballsey moves meta. And creates a lot of wifom. And does make deadbanana more suspicious. Personally, I think it was a pretty good choice killing sabrar for scum!swiss.

I'm sticking to no elimination for the day.

WHAT

I did the Sabrar kill because it fits ‘ballsy meta’? What does this even mean?

And so because it makes deadbannas more suspicious...you suspect me even more again.

Excellent detective work

 

[Swiss]

Frankly I’ve reread and can’t be sure which of them is scum. I think it’s Laser.

DB much more lurky, spider in the background. But heavily townread by those who know him.

Laser D1 had a lot of sus on him, and to quote Swiss ‘if I’m wrong on anyone it’s him’. His case on me I hate because I’ll allow a certain artistic license when making a case but he’s gone above and beyond to reshape the past.