Re-read starting #361 or top of page 10. Re-read assumed Laser Db smart & experienced. Work with me on the formatting and train of thought.
#260 Laser says
I'm not saying it's entirely wrong, just incomplete, and is therefore unlikely to produce accurate reads of me.
Bit defensive borders on self meta
#371 I would highlight that I defend Ran before (instead) of defending myself. +VE Swiss
#372 Ranmaru says " I re-evaluated Tattertot in my #216. Then, when Tattertot comes in and re-ignites my belief that he is scum, I cross out Swiss as scum, since I believe Laser and Tattertot are scum individually, and via association, therefore Swiss wouldn't fit as scum to me in my mind. "
going back prior to see Laser sus
#380 Laser says the two most likely scumbuddies of Tatter are me, and Somi. Worth remembering. Would have thought he'd use this in his case against me? Why didnt he
" Has advocated for Tatter as Town. " (Laser on Swiss). This sentence feels out of place, very deliberate in the wording so it can be used later if Tatter flips scum.
I forgot how hard Ran went for Laser D1.
Tatter on Laser #328 " Im feeling null on laserguy. Hes been active and definitely throwing questions out but that's it. I don't know. Not a great read but yeah. " Very non committial and unconcerned to be non committal, exactly the kind of thing I townread him for, but why so vague on Laser when there was lots to talk about. Tatter actually
forgot to include Laser in his reads list which Ran picked up on. Very important.
For me Tattertot's readlist is just more questions. Because like yah, what you brought up here is true and scummy behavior from tattertot, but the guy had like 2 days to make this, so if he was mafia I'd expect it to be a bit more polished? Continuing this train of thought after this next post.
I happen to agree with this take by Laserguy. Mala said Laserguy was a great and super helpful partner for him in his first scum game. I think that game was brought up here earlier but I don't remember the name.
Tattertot's readlist doesn't inspire any more confidence in him, and does drop him out of null town, but it just doesn't feel like if he was mafia he'd make that post. Especially not forgetting laserguy if laserguy was his scum partner. I'm ultimately just kind of confused what to think here. I totally get your push for them being connected as there have been things form both sides that are a bit odd. If I can get the time I'll look into it more, but I'm pretty tight on time as of now. I try to stay away from forming teams early on, as I feel that tunnel visions me and makes me easier to be manipulated..
Dislike DB here. Says he doesn't like Tatters posts, but doesn't
do anything with this. Very non committal where he can later say "oh look I sussed him too"
Continues to defend Tatter after this also. Does DB do too much for it to really be his scum partner?
Laser did you just do scum partner analysis on someone you townread?
It felt out of place then, and now. Why do scmu partner analysis, which is a lot of effort, on someone you think is town? Unless you know thy will flip scum, and want to have cases ready by association.
I still think Heury is my prime scum candidate. After a quick skim through, he's mainly stuck with Tattertot for his main case, which rubs me wrong since the basis for that was just hedging and now that it looks viable he's pushed for it more. He's mainly focused on analyzing post yeet benefits for him and Tattertot, which is helpful, but I'd want to see his takes on other stuff.
HeuryAlone
Why does Tattertont being scum vs being town only change with Laserguy in your books? If he flips town you don't think anyone else could be mafia?
DB defends Tatter to push Heury. Which I can't dislike too much as I did the same. But...
Right before deadline as in before the day ends? You seem to be changing whether your ability triggers during day or night as if you don't know, which makes me doubt the existence of your vig shot. Which is it? If it is day shot, waiting for d2 would be best.
lol
^Says he won’t give in depth reasoning - gives in depth reasoning.
The towniness hurts my eyes
Tatter's first(second?) post which he liked, was when I called DeadBannanas town.
Everyone should be thinking about their top 2-3 choices for the yeet. Deadline is at 5 am for me so I definitely won't be around and I imagine it will be similar for many others.
I'm looking at somitomi, Swiss and, hmm, I guess Tattertot. We don't technically need a majority, but we shouldn't have someone yeeted off of a few votes.
"hmm, I guess Tattertot" Non committal yet still squeezes him in.
@Sabrar
LaserGuy
@Tattertot @bessie
Your votes are useless where they are
remember
Talking about before D1 lynch
Buddies for Tatter and whether they're coaching him is something that has been discussed for awhile. bessie asked for this specific analysis since I alluded to it in my earlier reads.
A couple things I see on this:
-It's interesting to me that Tattertot doesn't seem to have a better understanding of Heury's meta or personality since they've played, if not mafia, then something similar. He mentions he's seen Heury not try as scum before, but it feels like kind of an afterthought and mostly he's taking Heury word for it. Likewise, Heury mentioning in
#61 that newbies are hard to read, I mean, yes they are, but they shouldn't be so hard to weird for him in particular. I don't know how well they know each other, but there's a weird kind of distance between them that is hard for me to pin down exactly if it's significant.
@Tattertot or
HeuryAlone
, how much have you played with each other? How well do you know each other outside of mafia?
-His read of you feels very much like newbie Town OMGUS. I've seen this lots of times.
-His read on Swiss feels understandable because most of the players here are using an xkcd-style giant read list meta whereas Swiss is going for a more #HBC shoot-from-the-hip style reads. Doesn't feel significant except maybe in buddy analysis. Then again, Tatter liked Swiss back in #76.
-There's an inconsistency in his Sabrar read in that earlier he said he had a poor impression of Sabrar (#71) but now says he hasn't seen anything.
-He forgot about me entirely which I don't care for.
On the whole, it's not a great post. My general impression is that he isn't analysing in detail, and there's a lot of things that are mistakes, omissions, or inconsistencies. The problem I have with doing in-depth analysis on a new player's posts is lots of times they just don't know what they're doing or how to analyze very well, so these sorts of errors can appear independent of alignment. See, 3DSNinja, for example, or Peaceful Whale back from xkcd. So when reading a new player, I usually try to look for tells that are characteristic of how newbie Town vs. newbie scum behave, rather than try to sort through the newbie weirdness individually. Tattertot is not as clearly as transparent as 3DSN, who was super obviously Town in all of his games in spite of his scummy content, but I haven't seen anything that obviously pings me as definitive newbie scum either. I can see him going either way.
On Somi:
Here's some Town posting from early in TIL mafia:
Somi is very chill, snarky, and DGAF how he comes off
This is scum somi from Completely Vanilla over a similar period of time:
All business, no jokes, no chit-chat.
Laser his is extreemly non committal on Tatter again, but very firm on Somi.
If you move to Tatter I am thinking I might swing over to bury it. Tatter isn't my favourite yeet but I'm not super comfortable leaving Swiss or somi the opportunity to swing it after I go to bed.
Has the chance to vote Tatter, but doesn't.
LaserGuy is a strong player.
@ranmaru, I am feeling better about Swiss and I hate the current wagon situation. I think I'm going to move back to somi. If you want to put your vote on another wagon so that yours wins in the event of a draw, I will hold off for a few minutes.
Suggests Somi not Tatter as the backup lynch
Tattertot - 3- Heury Alone, LaserGuy, Ranmaru
Huery Alone - 2 - Deadbananas, Tattertot
Somitomi - 2 - Bessie, Swiss
Swiss - 2 - somitomi, Sabrar
Did you do that on purpose to put the option back to me?
Fine, I'll stick with Tatter then. Make of that what you will.
I feel like in years past I could clear/scum on this post alone. I just cannot tell. Bit defensive which is -ve
Feels like he wanted the chance to swap to Somi but Ran denied it, and he didnt have the cojones to swap himself.
Ranmaru very well done here btw
DB of course was afk the entire time voting Huery with Tattertot.
Who’s the vig and why are you so bad
I immediately remove the chance of me being vig, unlikely play as scum
Nice work on Tattertot! (
@Tattertot I think you played well, we should talk post game. I have a friend who is also relatively new to forum mafia that plays here and comes from doing some other quicker versions of mafia as well.) Guess I should have trusted my first post take on Heury. Sorry Heury, and sorry others for pushing that.
The two kills are very interesting, can't really tell at all which one would be the vig and which one the nightkill tbh. Unless the vig claims before I get to re-reading, I'll try to analyze both Sabrar and Ran's final positions.
Tuesday's are a busy classday for me, but I'm working on re-reading and generating a new reads lists. I'll interact here while I do.
DB here you post as if Heury was hard cleared as town after the flip. Why?
"Vote Laser, Vote Laser" Ranmaru screamed at Swiss. "Do it or we lose!" he insisted. "Yeah" Sabrar chimed in, eyes glazed like a fresh doughnut. "do itttt".
Swiss stood tall, proud. Firm in his belief.
"It's Bessie and Laser, I swear it" Ran spluttered, drool escaping from his mouth.
Yet Swiss remained still in his belief, an unshakeable will like the Colossus of Rhodes.
The scenes post game if I stopped the better scum player being lynched and did this cocky post.
it could be Ran. But Sabrar can't shoot himself if he was vig.
The logic here is the wrong way round. I remember thinking this was odd.
LaserGuy
Deadbananas
why did neither of you do night actions?
DB you had a cop, so to not have used it on one of you scum reads?
So this is where I'm at:
bessie - Town. Cleared by
#553 and
#558.
Swiss - Town. Cleared by
#524 and
#540 .
Heury Alone - Town. Cleared by, among others,
#399.
Deadbananas - Towniest Town that ever Towned.
somitomi - Scum. Everyone else is Town.
This vote lookis pretty bad though. As does his Tatter read in
#220 is lifted almost verbatim from my
#178 and does not feel authentic at all.
So bold as a scum to do this, because he would
know the game wouldn't end.
Ironically, Ran and Sabrar were the only people that I didn't have as strong clears.
Reads town
Mafia
Confirmed Town
Me
Suspected Town
Other
start of page 14 VC
Tattertot - 3 -, Heury Alone, LaserGuy, Ranmaru
Huery Alone - 2 - Deadbananas, Tattertot
Somitomi - 2 - Bessie, Swiss
Swiss - 2 - somitomi, Sabrar
Final VC
Tattertot - 3 -, Heury Alone, LaserGuy, Swiss -- (Bessie)
Huery Alone - 2 - Deadbananas, Tattertot
Somitomi - 1 - Bessie,
Laserguy - 3 - ranmaru, sabrar, somitomi
Going to play devil's advocate a bit here and make a case for Bessie over Somi, would like people's thoughts.
The question here is who is scummier on the wagons. Somi and Sabrar both switch from Swiss to Laserguy, following Ran who switched from Tattertot. Somi is following out two confirmed towns. Bessie voted, claiming her vote to be a counter to Somi's vote. At the point Bessie entered the thread, the only viable wagons were either Tattertot, or Laser, unless Somi switched to Heury. Bessie is a smart, meticulous player from what i've seen. At this point, I'd guess that Bessie knows the rules regarding a vote tie, and that Tattertot will die either way. Bessie can't vote for Laser here, because that would contradict here reads list and position and reveal her to be scum. Ignoring Wam's deadline post, Bessie knows Tatter is dead either way since no one else is online, this is a good excuse for them to pop onto Tattertot's wagon and get some cred without actually bussing since he would have died anyway.
This brings up the problem of Bessie and Tattertot being mates in the first place. Tattertot mentioned being only online at limited hours, and Bessie is as well. If their hours didn't online well, perhaps Bessie would be unable to help Tattertot much since whenever he was on he had new questions to answer from people.
Bessie then kills Sabrar since Sabrar knows her really well and is worried he would call her out, as well as allowing the vote to focus on Somi for today, her primary scumread, securing an easy day today.
My main reason for having Bessie top of my list yesterday, was I felt her posts were unbiased, and lacking agenda overall. This could result from Tattertot and her schedules not aligning as mentioned earlier, and her not wanting to interact much with him, as she mainly didn't during the rise of the case on Tattertot.
---
That's what I have on Bessie.
I think Yeeting somi and Bessie always results in a win here, unless someone ultra-bussed Tattertot, but that's incredibly unlikely and they would deserve to win.
This sets him up to win endgame if he can establish two scum reads. But then why shoot Bessie last night?
Laser consistently bottom of Somi's read lists. Interesting.
