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Walgreens Mafia - DRAW game - The mod ****ed up pretty bad...=/

#HBC | Gorf

toastin walrus since 4/20 maaaan
Joined
Apr 10, 2009
Messages
6,553
Location
Jacksonville, FL
Asdioh said:
Hey Gorf, if JM was scum, do you think more people (ie, his scummates) would be speaking out against his lynch?
Not at all.

Asdioh said:
What? No.
Yea he is O.o

Oh and I said that quote because the exact same situation almost happened in UTrick'd 2 where Werekill claimed an obscure *** role, and I think there were one or two who were like "Yo let her test her ability" and I was like "No" and she ended up being scum try'na be cool with gambits and shii.

What makes you not wanna lynch Doors?
 

#HBC | J

Prince of DGamesia
Joined
Feb 14, 2010
Messages
7,591
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Colorado
Sorry guys, life hit me like a tidal wave the last few days and got busy but I'm gonna try and read and answer questions. ^^"
 

Asdioh

Not Asidoh
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Jun 23, 2008
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16,200
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OH
What makes you not wanna lynch Doors?
We're lovers.

More importantly, I'd simply rather lynch J or AA. I'd also like Gheb and Ruy to get more into the game.


I guess I'll do isos of the JM/J/AA lynchpool now :urg:
 

Asdioh

Not Asidoh
Joined
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Messages
16,200
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OH
wtf AA has 43 posts. Why don't I remember any of them? ;_;
I also don't remember July's posts but that's because I generally skim her stuff.
 

#HBC | J

Prince of DGamesia
Joined
Feb 14, 2010
Messages
7,591
Location
Colorado
Gooooooooooooooooooooooooorf. What should I focus on? I keep getting distracted. ;_;

*sigh* No mafia mood.
 

#HBC | Gorf

toastin walrus since 4/20 maaaan
Joined
Apr 10, 2009
Messages
6,553
Location
Jacksonville, FL
Gooooooooooooooooooooooooorf. What should I focus on? I keep getting distracted. ;_;

*sigh* No mafia mood.
You should totes focus on giving us content.

What about J or AA makes you desire their lynch over Doors? Or, what about Doors redeems him where J and AA are not? Or, both if both apply. Work with me baby.
 

T-block

B2B TST
Joined
Jan 11, 2009
Messages
11,841
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Edmonton, AB, Canada
aa please finish that iso asap and let us know of any conclusions

while you're doing it, give me your thoughts on my theory that his catchup is faked, and he's using it to gain town points.
 

Asdioh

Not Asidoh
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
16,200
Location
OH
I'm not serious. Unfortunately, I'm not in a QT with anybody this game.
 

#HBC | Gorf

toastin walrus since 4/20 maaaan
Joined
Apr 10, 2009
Messages
6,553
Location
Jacksonville, FL
I'm thinking, as scum, he'd be intent on riding that out as long as he can even through some of D2. I mean the fact of the matter is, now that he IS caught up, he's posting pretty damn good imo. As far as the fake catch up, I saw the inconsistency being that he was STILL able to respond to things recently said and that as town I didn't really see em doing that... But I kinda opened myself to the possibility of town Rajam (for the most part toDay) and realized... it's not like he was all over the place with his answering of questions... If he addressed some that were right after his catchup posts, it was cuz they were right there... And usually it dealt with info that he had been in tune with at the point he was at reading wise. It just seems like a lot to try and cover if it was, indeed, faked, and as scum I'm more inclined to imagine him just ignoring those questions all together until he got there in his catchup.
 

asianaussie

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
9,337
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Sayonara Memories
christ this ISO is taking forever because he was lagging behind so bad

FYI, what i've found so far (page 16 on 40ppp) is that, as long as you take rajam's D1 posts in context (his context, ie 200 posts behind everyone else), they're actually quite solid, if a little too concerned about himself (he admits openly that he's just skimming for his name, i guess)
 

asianaussie

Smash Hero
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Messages
9,337
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Sayonara Memories
Pages #11 through #20, Rajam is still behind for a lot of it. Stupidly long post too, read at your own risk.

A quick response to this, I'll address the rest later:

That's correct, I didn't check the vote count. I couldn't care less if that vote was a hammer. I still want to see you dead toDay
Meh. Pushes scumpick. His most relevant post so far, since it's actually current (at that point, obviously). He loses points for not responding to the fake-catchup accusation by T-block (just a few posts up) and for the lack of...diligence, I guess. Still not sure if he's playing the game seriously at this point.

This doesn't make any sense... why the first paragraphs about how weird would it be Kantrip not being town, to conclude that he isn't clear? Seems to me like plain parroting while not taking any stance and still leaving Kantrip in the limbo

The post as a whole is just an excuse to have a post imo
Still hella behind, still pushing fluff/bland content point on JM. I disagree with his point that the relevant post is actually useless.



Wait, where did you get the flavor from then?


Meh. He was banking a lot on T-Block being miller, so reaction is sorta appropriate. Not much to say.

ok, I saw Gheb's plan, and before saying anything I want to address some stuff:

First, I'm getting very sold on Sokr as newbscum, and I think he's scummier than everything T-block has done

unvote
vote: Sokr


Then, I think Kantrip's suspicion on T-block is legit. I feel/felt the breadcrumb could be used as a scapegoat, and it bothers me that you left a crumb for your proposal in killing me but you didn't leave a crumb for your miller gambit, considering you said you leave crumbs in these kind of cases. Also, I don't know why people are reluctant to believe Kantrip's claim, when it is quite easy to push at times like if we have a cop guilty. I consider Kantrip a strong town read

Kantrip, ask Rockin what happens if you hammer and use your ability at the same time

I'm aware Gheb did a case on Sokr ¿? I'll talk about Gheb's plan once I see the case. I want to evaluate if it could indicate a strong disconnection between Gheb and Sokr.

Also, I strongly think between T-block and Sokr there is scum, but I also strongly consider that T-block and Sokr aren't both scum
tl;dr he thinks kantrip is town and one of t-block/sokr is scum.

nothing wrong with this post, it's solid content

oh wait he's still 150 posts behind NEVER MIND

ah nvm I'll say this now:

I'm fine with Gheb's plan. I'm quite sure Sokr will flip scum, but regardless of whatever Sokr flips I know people will be on me later, either for distancing or because I'm scummy -_-. I don't care about dying, I'm a vanilla and with Sokr-almost-sure scum flip + my death will occur several things:

  1. We already should know by now that RR is like 99% town
  2. Sokr mafia => T-block not mafia. I'm pretty sure they're not both mafia and people will find out anyways on a re-read, since T-block was the first in bringing Sokr being newbscum from nowhere, so it was a legit initiative by T-block
  3. If Gheb's case is good enough, then Sokr mafia => Gheb not mafia. I have a town read on Gheb anyways
  4. Now, the very reason on which I'm ok with dying, besides of getting rid of a scummy slot, is because with my flip
    both Asdioh and mentos should be cleared as town
    . This is important and I'm emphasizing this because I want to be listened from the tomb; my main goal is to clear those two players, and I don't want people later forgetting this and saying "I think Asdioh/mentos is scum"

So, with Sokr scum and Kantrip+me dead, clear players should be RR, Gheb, T-block, Asdioh, mentos, leaving remaining scum between Jim Morrison / asianaussie / Gorf (in that order), then one step below July. This is a cool tradeoff and I'm ok if me+Sokr+Kantrip have to die to clear so many players and reducing the lynch pool significantly.

If people are not convinced that both Asdioh and mentos are town in case I flip town (and T-block flips town <=> Sokr flips scum), they should re-read, from my perspective, the moment when Kantrip claimed and T-block pushed for my death. Asdioh asked if the ability could be used at night, hence asking for a wiser use of the ability and stopping the action, when... he just could've remained silent. mentos basically did the same thing when showing the number analysis

So, remember: Sokr scum =>
1.- T-block town
2.- Jim Morrison scummy just because he has been mad scummy so far
3.- aa scummy for not doing anything, but also because he accused Sokr earlier in a very distancing way (I quoted that earlier)
4.- Gorf and July come next by discard since all the others should be like 95% town at least. I think July is townier though so that's why I put her a step below
this seems okay, since he's clearing the lynchpool etc, but honestly he's finding scum from townreads, which never reads well to me personally, not to mention it's way, way too early (and his justification for a lot of it is flimsy at best)

far, far, far too many assumptions here for me to take this post seriously, and im quite sure most people would agree this whole post is just bluster and to be taken with liberal helpings of salt

So, what's the problem with sheeping? In fact this shows you're too more concerned on your own survivability than being a clear/outloud voice (regardless if it's by sheeping others or not) when pursuing your scumpicks; you're falling into pretty much the same thing you're calling T-block at the end of your post
good post, still 150 posts behind, but good post (though sokr was opening himself up to it)

If I'm lynched I don't want Kantrip to use his ability. I strongly think Kantrip is town, and I'd only push for Kantrip using his ability only if Kantrip starts to become scummy (I think that's the best way to use Kantrip ability anyways; only if he starts to become more scummy than townie). Regarding Sokr, I'd rather follow the normal course of lynching him next Day instead of Kantrip+Sokr commiting suicide.

@T-block, asianaussie, Jim Morrison, and Gorf:
Assume I flip town. thoughts on this course of action? ^
a bit of a weird post, but if you take his reasoning and toss it about it begins to work, sorta

questions his scumpicks, but nobody is taking him seriously at this point, through nobody's fault but his own

@Sokr: Elaborate on your reads on assianaussie, Gorf and Jim Morrison.

btw if he doesn't anwer this and I'm lynched, I trust someone will bring this asap. That said, don't evade this Sokr
mm

Kantrip, do you base your suspicion on Tblock primarily on the contradiction you say there is?

Regardless of Tblock's gambit, of course he wouldn't confirm or deny if he had abilities besides his miller status. Also, since the gambit was focused on saying he was a miller, the fake flavor would be focused (almost) 100% only on that as well. I don't see a problem in that the fake flavor didn't address potential abilities

I can see why you consider Sokr town if you think T-block is scum, since it should be pretty obvious that Sokr =/= Tblock, but at the same time it would be really weird that neither of them is scum, so I think it's TvS. I think Sokr is scum so that implies I'm thinking now T-block is town

Hence I'm aiming now that you re-evaluate T-block's gambit and see it from the perspective that he only aimed at saying he was miller (when I say "saying he was", I'm referring to that he was just claiming miller status without confirming or denying eventual abilities), because his focus was at avoiding the NKill. Now that he claimed the gambit we all know it implies he has other ability/ies (if he hasn't then the gambit was unjustified and hence is scum), but obviously he wouldn't hint at that during the miller claim (neither confirm nor deny)
still very focused on t-block, guess you should stick to what you know

...this isn't bad content, but it's now almost 200 posts behind so it's pretty useless

Gheb what's your read on Jim Morrison?
mm

I've also changed my mind and I don't want Kantrip to use his ability at all - never, unless a detailed number analysis supports it which I doubt so. I don't want Kantrip to use his ability regardless of who is lynched toDay and regardless of flip. If I'm lynched toDay and flip town, wait until the next Day to lynch Sokr or someone else. Using Kantrip's ability this early and with no cop results is deffinitely too hasty. My read on town Kantrip is stronger than my read on scum Sokr, and my read on scum Sokr is already strong but Kantrip town is my strongest read in the game.
bolded seems to be conveying...uncertainty? i dunno. his writing style isn't 100% conventional anyway so i won't take anything much from it

the rest is ok

Also, FoS at all the people that approved the usage of Kantrip's ability on either me or Sokr just because we're scummy. A cop result, for example, is far better reason to use Kantrip's ability (if we ever want to use it) than on any player with no cop result regardless of how scummy can be. Again, FoS at all the people that derailed from the initial agreements that Kantrip's ability should be used on cop results. My personal thought also is that you can force Kantrip to use his ability if he ever becomes more scummy than townie, and you have several reads of the kind "player A doesn't go with B, A goes with C and D, B goes with C but not with E", etc. Also no one has strongly voiced suspicion on the credibility of Kantrip's ability and I want to know who thinks either Kantrip's ability could be fake or that Kantrip's ability could not correspond to a town ability; I don't understand the support on Kantrip using his ability when no one has voiced any suspicion of the ones mentioned before, or offered a number analysis of why it would be convenient instead of following a normal course
this is actually pretty good, im feeling good vibes here

if only it came 200 posts earlier

Mega FoS @ Jim Morrison complaining and encouraging everyone to ignore every post I make in his effort to keep me high in the scum side, based on the argument that it's outdated when I've still asked presented several relevant issues regardless of game's advancement. I'm putting this in another color because if I flip I want this to be seen as outstanding and important. I think Jim Morrison is faking/forcing a tunneling mindset on me

Scum is among Skor/Jim Morrison, then asianaussie, then Gorf, in that order imo[/COLOR]
While I do think JM was definitely shunting Rajam's posts to the side (I'm guilty of this as well), I don't think I can take much from the first paragraph. Scumpicks here.

I've only skimmed the last pages, mainly name-searching myself, or if I caught any claim/significant "revelation", or any important twist to the game. My detailed read is by page 9 (40ppp)
>_>

Why not immediatly pointing out which things specifically do you agree with, instead of waiting for someone else to ask for?

btw I ask now if you still have some sort of scum read on T-block based on (some of) the same things you considered T-block scum by this time here (and which would be the points that remain of course). Basically, I'm asking if you have something "new" on T-block after this post if you still consider T-block scummy. Quote if you think you've already gave a response to this.
asianaussie, address my #379

Why didn't you respond it earlier? It was a pretty direct question since I was directly quoting you...
chasing up scumspects, he's very focused on this, wouldn't quite call it tunneling or anything though

again notes that JM is wishy-washy, to which JM replies 'no u catch up', which is an attitude i probably shouldn't have endorsed, but did

unvote
vote: Jim Morrison


T-block, do you remember when Omni was responding me in very similar ways to my requests to him in SMRPG?
he got mad at JM or something, seems to think that lagging that far behind isn't a big deal, idk...

lmao I read this:
Analysis of Gheb's #354:

My first impression is: I agree. Let me further the analysis by showing some other stuff:

First three quotes, combined:

I don't find any quote much scummy by itself, but combining the three we have this:

The first quote establish a precedent: Sokr's initial reaction shows he actually believed Kantrip's ability, and that's sorta consistent with his later responses in which he seems to only doubt Kantrip's alignment, not his ability. Nonetheless, the way he is proposing how Kantrip should use his ability in the 1st quote indicates Sokr thinks Kantrip is town imo, otherwise, there isn't much sense on why letting Kantrip choosing by his own free will. This impression is obviously contradictory with the next two quotes in which Sokr clearly shows he isn't believing much Kantrip as town.

Is this scummy? imo, the lack of explanations in this shift is what makes Sokr scummy; he made the shift towards Kantrip not-town in the most hidden way possible. Note that the first two quotes are consecutive posts of Sokr, confirming the lack of explanations on the shift

---

It should be clear at this point that I'm willing to lynch both Jim Morrison and Sokr so my vote will move freely between them

Furthering gheb's case, he actually brings some really solid stuff to the table, this is pretty towny imo

I wasn't even the one joking with Rebecca Black in SMRPG
My OMGUSdar tells me Jim Morrison is scum :awesome:

No but seriously, among the people who has been on me, I think he is the one with the most scummy intentions for pushing me, for the reasons I put in yellow color in a post I did earlier. For example I don't think Kantrip is scum, and with your "second claim" plus your general play (other than your miller gambit -_-), I don't think you're scum either anymore and I don't think you had scummy intentions for accusing me, but I want to know why you moved me from "useless" to "scummy" at the very beginning of the game though :/
the post he refers to is where T-block says he RVS'd him in order to see if he would OMGUS people (and he did do it, to T-block anyway)

he's still incredibly self-centric, picking only points that he has personal relevance to and ignoring a lot of other stuff - this is ok since he's in the spotlight a lot, though he himself is still struggling to read up

Sokr: scum. I agree with all the times he has been called newbscum. Undecisive, hidden. Also if he flips scum I think his scummates are kind of newbies too. Will explain the latter only after eventual flips, but I think most people should know why.

Gheb: town. His reads and mine are very similar. Haven't seen him with scummy intentions; his case on Sokr didn't have reaching, or trying to pass antitown tells as scum ones, or out-of-context quotes, nor other "bad" elements.

July: null leaning slightly town. Having a hard time reading her intent, and doesn't have much content. I have seen more town tells than scum tells though, although minimal of both.
Sokr stance is ok, Gheb stance is just 'he isn't playing badly', July stance is meh

WIFOM. Why would scum be so outloud and the principal spokesman in the lynch of a townie?

Are you backpedaling?

#419 and #439:
The usage of the word "but" when referring my slot indicates you shifted your main motive of wanting me lynched from useless to scummy

Note also that between these two post, he has the exact same argument for me, yet he increases the color's scumness from orange to red. I'll assume it's due to my #434 in between? yet you don't address it at all, neither explicitly mention it for increasing the color's scumness


All the yellow just sums towards what I said also in yellow in my #540. You're trying to keep me high on the lynch list, as high as Sokr which is pure scumness, and me, based mainly for being mostly useless as you yourself are saying here
i actually really liked this post, it was clearly analytical and referenced appropriate examples, though there is a tad of useless wifom and he completely neglects to mention #422 in JM's stance change from null-scum to scummy

Saw this when looking only posts from you:

...so wait; you want me dead because I'm behind and catching up like I did in F&L?? For the record, two things:

1.- Me being behind and catching up in F&L was not faked
2.- In different degrees, I've gotten behind and had to catch up during D1 in every single game of Mafia I have ever played

How much of your motives for wanting me dead are based on me "doing the same" that I did in F&L? This is important so answer this
plays the 'im not actually scummy you're just annoyed at me' and 'meta me im always behind' cards, not actually much to say here

uh? For the reread you make on me you barely put two quotes, and the first one serves no purpose since you don't conclude anything


The second one though, is the one that bothers me more; in your previous post to this one, #424, when you reread on RR, you conclude this:



Are you using a double standar? Because I also was defending Asdioh and mentos in the second quote, but you treat it in a total different way contrasted with RR
at first this looks like a good point, but it's not actually that strong because he's misconscruing what sokr says and not taking into account the fact his POSTS ARE POINTLESSLY HARD TO ANALYSE BECAUSE THEY'RE SO FAR OUT OF CONTEXT GRRRRR

what's even dumber is that he doesn't even mention how sokr is being ridiculously flippy-floppy in his final judgement of rajam:

"Sokr said:
Anyways, out of all this, yes Rajam's posts initially scream scum, but if you look into intent and try to see the thinking behind his posts, it is possible to see town. It's a bit of a stretch, but the possibility is big enough for me to have a null on him. However, his inactivity and his "catchups" do reek of scum, so for you Kantrip, if I had to take a stance, it would be hesitant scum.
i find it very, very odd he didn't talk about this, seeing as he's so focused on his own name being dropped and all

Sokr what's your read on Asdioh and mentos?
The way you word this is like you consider mentos scummy for not considering the option of Kantrip's claim being a gambit, but you don't take the stance. Even more, you tell the others to take the stance, in a biased way with the sentence previous to the "It's up to you guys to interpret that as a scummy or townie mindset". Me don't like
i might just be tired, but neither this nor what he is referring to makes much sense at all

he's criticising asdioh saying something can go either way by calling his phrasing biased...im not sure how this even works

I think scum-Asdioh doesn't go with scum-Gorf. I don't think this could be distancing despite Gorf wasn't receiving much pressure by this time. The way Asdioh accuses Gorf at the start of the second paragraph (underlined) is what seals the deal for me, since it's more striking than concealable. Asdioh scum, then this analysis on Gorf would mean to me that Asdioh was trying to put Gorf high among the scum possibilities and increasing the lynch-pool for scum, instead of trying to create distancing.

Since this is a 12-players game, with a miller, my personal take on the setup is that there are at most two mafia members, although I think they have good abilities, like Godfather / Roleblocker / Tracker, for example. Regarding indies, my bet is that there is either one, or a team of two. We should be looking more at just scum-pairings. Given this probable setup configuration of only pairing(s) of scum, I think they haven't followed a strategy of distancing so far since this is a closed setup and losing a member this early it's too risky.

Three mafia + a miller in a 12-players game would be too ridiculous imo -_-
STILL on the same post as last quote, and a whole page of posts has passed. God. The post itself is just some stuff on scum pairings, which matches with the setup speculation he talks about below. I'm inclined to believe this is just how he plays.

setup speculation is meh, no scumslips etc

also he is WAY too focused on the term distancing/disconnecting/whatever, i think he takes it too seriously since it's all WIFOM in the end

^ Oh and here when I say scum isn't using a distancing strategy, I'm referring more in the sense of scum not going hard between themselves. Weak distancing is still acceptable
I don't even know anymore, this whole distancing thing is stupid and it irritating me that he thinks you can solidly work things out just by saying 'oh he's distanced himself from him here and here', since the most effective distancing is not talking about a person at all, etc

What? If my main concern is someone trying to gain points by disconnecting, why is it different if the person being disconnected is me or someone else? Not understanding how you conclude from this that I'm scum... which is your thought process again?
Right back at you -_-" this ISO is taking a huge toll on me

July's post here says that distancing only matters when scum is involved, and Rajam fails to explain this properly, or even comprehend it for that matter.

Gheb what do you think of how firm Kantrip defends Sokr in this post? He even bolded the statement and changed the color...

mentos, same question
nothing interesting here, just him chasing up reasons as to why people don't think like he does

Despite he says there is plenty of time, he casts a vote against me, and previous to that I had already several votes + other two votes in the previous ~ 10 posts before this one, but nonetheless he still casts the vote when he said he didn't read carefully



After casting the vote, he says this; very non-committal

unvote
vote: asianaussie


By far the scummiest vote against me. July had her reasons, so had Kantrip. These are not reasons to almost lynch me when that wagon formed.
I will be the bigger man here and decline to comment extensively on the hypocritical nature of the first part.

second part im ok with, i was voting because i had nowhere else to put my vote

Sokr, I want to know why you have RR only as a "PaleGreen" read instead of a full "Green" read




Also, stop not taking any stances... :mad088:

Your recent inactivity isn't helping you either
first part is meh, second bit i can feel towny vibes from

Then why you had your vote on me??

Do you have any scum read?
atrocious english aside, it's good questioning

Sure, I agree with most of your post, regardless of your alignment. Vote in #144 seems more a pressure vote to me though. Not sure what arguments that Gorf had against T-block do you refer to. I agree with your overall impression and how it seems Gorf was avoiding responsibility upon a town flip of me, although I wouldn't go as far as "top" scumpick, but Gorf is so null-not-particularly-leaning-town atm that that's enough for being high at least, just by discard.
meh, probably something to talk about here but im hella tired

Sokr should claim imo

and please no replacements yet
even less for one of the lynch candidates -_-
Gheb what do you think of Kantrip not even knowing I have already claimed VT? I think scum would pay a lot more attention to that kind of stuff, and keep track of all claims

T-block why do you want Kantrip to use his ability, instead of following a normal course? Wouldn't it be more beneficial to use (if we want him to use) the ability on a cop result?

unvote
vote: Sokr
ignoring the circumstances under which he claimed VT (i mean, im doing a ****ing iso and i missed the claim), this is pretty decent questioning. Jumps to a plausible lynch candidate.

I was referring to towntells and scumtells in general, not applied to July's meta which I'm not really familiar. Anyways, I went and did a reread on July:

This quote reminds me of Sokr, not taking any stance really. She starts the post by agreeing with "really good points" of Gheb, to finish her post in a skeptical posture, so the purpose of quoting Gheb in the first place ends void. This quote gives me scummy vibes.
HMM. This refers to #212. In his #561 he went and said July was null-towny by saying that there were 'more towny things than scummy things' or something like that. T-Block, I am inclined to believe he did fake a catch-up at one point based on this.

This is a reach. RR barely got any pressure for counterclaiming.

The whole quote seems reach-ish imo; gives me scummy vibes too


I somewhat agree with this, but I don't think it's that scummy.

This quote gives me town vibes, since I think she is being clear and honest with their stances on these players

---

Overall my previous impression of July being null-leaning-town has changed now to null-leaning-scum. I think the towny impressions I got before were due to July being contingent and posting "correct" stuff, but now after a reread I think July has evaded risking her throat and be a more prominent voice in scumhunting by taking more firm stances; her pressure game is lackluster, and I also consider her reasons for being on T-block first mainly because of the not-really-being-miller gambit, and then on me mainly because she didn't like my clear on Asdioh and mentos (which can only be troublesome if I flip scum, so by now it's null because she isn't seeing the counterpart of me having town intent), are weak reasons.
[/QUOTE]

This would be an ok explanation if the previous reasoning for July null-town wasn't so general and abstract. I'm ok if it's an updated read, but the point that he likely faked the catch-up is definite.

Actually July is leaning a little worse to me; slightly scum (not as null as "null"
)
Stance clarification. Nothing special.

Seriously Gheb, T-block... why is it convenient that Kantrip blows up himself and me/Sokr toNight instead of waiting and using it on a cop guilty (whoever it be)?
mm

the word convenient is used pretty stupidly here (given that rajam himself isn't being convenient to town at all), but nothing comes of it

Legit and town
What the... explain how/why that's scummy
This is a legitimate question, though it isn't that helpful.

Just to be clear, your point that you think my catch up is fake, is it yours, or something you took from Tblock?

And also, if my points on Sokr aren't clear, they are:

1.- I agree with Tblock's initial impressions of him being noobscum, specially due to how non-comittal the guy has been, not taking any clear stance when he explains himself

2.- I also agree with Gheb's case

3.- I also has added other points, in my #553, and also some other stuff scattered around my posts

I also want to add now that him getting inactive is bothersome. Sokr needs to be lynched toDay
Summary and meh. Not very much in this post says much to me, even with context.

Try again. Elaborate and detail why was that paragraph and the FoS scummy
mmm hard choice between asianaussie, Gorf and July... I'd probably go with asianaussie, then July, then Gorf

oh and also I'm severely dropping Jim Morrison from my scumpicks after reading pages 15~16. I think him against me was an outburst of paranoia after seeing that I also was catching up in F&L were I was scum. He's now null leaning town.
I really don't like that he suddenly drops a major scumspect, who he has spent a long time questioning and bickering with, based on the reasoning 'oh he must be meta-paranoid'. Ick.

no, I have just that horrible case on me + overall low activity and presence. As I said it's a hard choice between him/July/Gorf and I'd prefer to get rid of newer players earlier if it becomes a hard call
mm

ehrm I meant horrible as scummy, as I presented it in my original case.
this is a legitimate correction

Gord while you're addressing my previous questions, could you elaborate on this read?:
pushing me, probably in preparation for the next day

WL has just subbed in, btw

this is also where i ask somebody to cop me/july because im bad at mafia

July I'll address your post by part:



Let's see; I still sustain that T-block =/= Sokr/WL. Both aren't scummates.

That post was shortly after I read that T-block revoked his miller claim so I was still dubious about it, and I was coming from considering T-block my main scum pick; at the same time I was already considering Sokr scum for being newbscum, so, I considered that one of them has to be scum, but also I already was decided in Tblock =/= Sokr, hence the "it's TvS". Now, as I said I still think Tblock =/= Sokr, and I think Tblock is town and Sokr scum, but it's not TvS in the sense that if Sokr somehow flips town, I wouldn't consider Tblock scum; I'd look elsewhere.
This whole paragraph is dedicated to explanation, but it explains almost nothing at all through confusing wording and a general lack of actual content or evidence - you have to take the assumption Sokr and T-Block are different factions before this begins to make sense, invalidating the whole point of the explanation. Next please.

Yeah I think I did a poor selection of words with that general FoS; it was more of a thing that bothered me of Gheb, Tblock and others iirc, that after deciding it was wiser to wait to use Kantrip's ability, they changed their minds and wanted to use now in D1/N1. My reads on Gheb and Tblock were unaffected; I think the change of plans was just something stupid and it bothered me. Basically I thought Kantrip was town even before the claim, and the claim just strengthens that. I can't see scum claiming that sort of thing when it can easily be pressured to be proven at any time; I just think using the ability this early is not really the moment. It can be used later with more info on the table and if Kantrip begins to act scummy
This is ok.

My main concern with that was that T-block posted something absolutely irrelevant, so when looking at intent it seemed to me that he just wanted to send the message that he isn't scum with me (hence there is a disconnection between us); as I said earlier a player with more disconnections is unconsciously given slightly less probabilities of being scum; I thought that's what T-block aimed for


I want to note again that this paragraph only makes sense if you are Rajam, who believes he is a good player and that being 200 posts behind is fine. It is abundantly clear that Rajam was not going to be very helpful to town if he was that far behind, and T-Block, having experienced that, decided to vote and 'disconnect' himself. There is no other real benefit to the 'disconnecting' he keeps mentioning.

Regarding the rest, idk how being everywhere and constantly changing my reads is scummy; that's a null tell since town and scum do that equally. Changing my opinion on how and whether Kantrip should use his ability isn't a contradiction, is just me changing my oppinion.

I think those two last paragraphs of yours are particularly reach-ish and scummy; you pass a null tell as a scum one in the first; being everywhere isn't a mainly-scum attribute, and saying that I'm being contradictory is disguising what I'm really doing: I'm just changing my reads as every player does.
This bit is null. It's very irritating that Rajam just flops about and says it's fine, but to be honest he's not entirely wrong. He changes a lot of reads and provides (imo insufficient) justification for them, but it works out because the justification on his initial reads was not very strong (barring the sokr read, which he maintained iirc).


you will excuse me for not completing the ISO today, just this much of slogging through rajam's posts, putting it all in context and summarising it in post form was very tiring and I have things to do.
The only really intriguing part I got from this is

July: null leaning slightly town. Having a hard time reading her intent, and doesn't have much content. I have seen more town tells than scum tells though, although minimal of both.
I was referring to towntells and scumtells in general, not applied to July's meta which I'm not really familiar. Anyways, I went and did a reread on July:

This quote reminds me of Sokr, not taking any stance really. She starts the post by agreeing with "really good points" of Gheb, to finish her post in a skeptical posture, so the purpose of quoting Gheb in the first place ends void. This quote gives me scummy vibes.
Basically evidence for faking catch-up early-ish on.

mmm hard choice between asianaussie, Gorf and July... I'd probably go with asianaussie, then July, then Gorf

oh and also I'm severely dropping Jim Morrison from my scumpicks after reading pages 15~16. I think him against me was an outburst of paranoia after seeing that I also was catching up in F&L were I was scum. He's now null leaning town.
I really don't like that he suddenly drops a major scumspect, who he has spent a long time questioning and bickering with, based on the reasoning 'oh he must be meta-paranoid'. Ick.
 

Asdioh

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AA, what are your scumpicks? My highly developed brain already decided Rajam was town an entire Day ago.
 

asianaussie

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AA, what are your scumpicks? My highly developed brain already decided Rajam was town an entire Day ago.
honestly do not know right now, ill just say the only person im willing to lynch atm is probably JM

after this stupid long ISO i will probably look at july or gheb

gheb has just been unquestioned this whole damn game, people giving him a free pass as town when i specifically recall somebody saying gheb was capable of playing a town game as scum
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

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Considering a Rajam lynch for liability issues.

1. No, unless absolutely necessary. Of course I'd rather not claim.
2. Well, the thing is, Gheb hasn't done ANYTHING wrong in my eyes, so I can't suspect him, but it almost seems like he's playing too perfect. But man, I'll keep suspicious of anyone, just Gheb, I've not seen anything terrible of him.
1. Ok, I'll leave it here, I think your looking better right now from that wall so I think I'll look elsewhere.

2. I'm getting a similar feel, but he's been stuck in my null for the entire game, that does displease me. So Gheb thinks J and Asdioh are scum, what are your thoughts on these reads here from him?

1.) Why would it be better to lynch him and shoot "elsewhere"? You don't think shooting mafia N1 could be a credibility boost that an SK would go for? You say "it would be better" but have no logical reason to back that up. No matter what WL was to flip, the outcome would always be in Gorf's "favor".

2.) I already explained why SK doesn't mind hitting a BP on N1. Have you even read my arguments?

3.) Scumbags often randomly side with townies to gain credibility upon their flip. Siding with a townie is never "bad" for scum. As scum he'd have good reason to side with Kantrip.
1. Admitting he shot a townie actually looks more townie to me, I don't think a SK would out themselves as a vig for those kinds of shots. If they remain hidden they can still shoot where they want now Gorf has to listen to us on where he shoots, which as a SK is less optimal.

2. I did but considering the player behind the slot and how awkward lylo could turn out for him I doubt he would take that chance. He could aim for the town cred, but the fact remains him outing himself right when the say starts doesn't seem to favor his position since mafia knows who shot him if he is a SK. Trying to see this from his shoes more or less.

3. They do, but remember, they also need to push lynches that benefit them as well while still looking townie. WL lynch was more ideal to him from a SK standpoint.
 

Asdioh

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honestly do not know right now, ill just say the only person im willing to lynch atm is probably JM

after this stupid long ISO i will probably look at july or gheb

gheb has just been unquestioned this whole damn game, people giving him a free pass as town when i specifically recall somebody saying gheb was capable of playing a town game as scum
I approve of this post. The best part is that you'll probably follow through on those ISOs
unlike me so far... v_v
 

Asdioh

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Not really fond of it. He's been playing with the apparent mindset of "why don't you all have solid townreads on me?" and it's kind of weird. He's done very little toDay, though I do like his vote on J, but that's about it. I'd have to reread D1 to remember exactly what he did, but I do remember him putting him making a case on Sokr and doing some other stuff... overall, I'd be willing to lynch him, but others take priority. I'm definitely not about to call him town, though.
 

Jim Morrison

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What if I were to tell you I think you're using Asianaussie as an out, since he's a noob and inactive which, from any scum player's perspective, can make things easy to misconstrue? I feel that there are some things which are antitown that you had pointed out, but seriously it all boils down to the fact that I'm looking at his possible intentions and seeing him doing this as inactive town moreso than scum.
But also
Ya know you do a lot of this... And from your first post of the Day (a.k.a before anybody really started digging up stuff against you) it really seems like you had zero intention of really try'na step it up and help town but hey one man's opinion right?
So literally, there's nothing I can do. I either have to be suspicious of you, T-block or Gheb (the stronger players) or it'd be a an out. I told you I'd change my game. You were on my *** because I wasn't taking much own initiative, so to change I'd have to go my own way. My read was on asianaussie, okay, I show you his case, but then it's still not good? Uh, no thanks, now you're just looking at everything I do from a scumJim, so there's no chance to interpret anything I do as town...
Honestly, I think this is pretty telling in and of itself:


It's a small thing, yea, but this is eerily similar to what I'm trying to fix about my scum game. In the past, I've been called straight up stanceless as scum because I was afraid that committing to a faulty read will get my anus lynched. Now obv no flips from you have come up, but the fact that you're kinda taking away from SCUM by using the word "leaning" makes me think of me as scum. Of course, that's kinda iffy, but still.
Because your scum game would be similar to mine. :teeth:.
No, in all seriousness, my read on AA isn't actually full-blown scum. The main point of my post on AA was to actually get him involved. It's why I asked him to do the iso on Rajam.
I don't like how you're going around saying "Why am I being blamed for this when he's doing the same thing?!" The fact of the matter is, Doors, the situation presented around his actions are totally different than the situation presented around yours, and I'm sure you don't think that we, as town, are dumb enough to fall for the idea that he's doing some of the same shiz as you, therefore he deserves similar/equal attention. That ain't gonna fly homeboy.
Okay, his situation is different, doesn't take away he was stanceless yesterDay and was willing to lynch me 24 hours into the next Day.
Also, can you tell exactly why his case of shifting to me after you posted your suspicions is different from my case in switching to Sokr after Gheb's post, I don't see it. I hope you can show me!

Red Ruy said:
2. I'm getting a similar feel, but he's been stuck in my null for the entire game, that does displease me. So Gheb thinks J and Asdioh are scum, what are your thoughts on these reads here from him?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the last thing I read on J from Gheb was that J was null, which I understand.
His Asdioh scum... I don't know, he's never substantiated it yet, I believe. He can have the read, but it does nothing to me until he shows us why.
 

~ Gheb ~

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Yeah, I have been slacking a bit recently but I'll change that once I've posted in my other games.

Gorf, take a chill pill man. Like, since when are you being such an *** about me disagreeing with your reads? All I ever specifically said that I have no idea how people conclude SDO / Gorf town and I still don't understand why. I see no particular pro-town intent in anything these two have offered so I'd like to have somebody point it out to me, since I'm apparently not capable of figuring it out myself 0_0

:059:
 

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OK, so I'm reading stuff from about p. 19 onwards [when Laundry replaced in] and look at the lynch scenario in particular and sum up what players were thinking at that time ...

T-Block:

Advocated a Rajam / WLSokr team. Looks bad in restrospect for that and for his confirmed fake claim but I need to put that in context with other players' thoughts. And I should also check his reads on others to see what he's doing. Not much coming from @D2, definitely somebody I'd investigate if he hasn't been yet. Potentially a D2 lynch as well.

#798
#805
#818
#821 pushing for Kantrip bombing WL

He only actually votes WL @865 though

#862 contains quite a horrible response to Rajam
#973 this post smells =/

#1011
#1060
#1090
#1098
#1099 Generally supporting Kantrip staying alive over WL [sometimes straight up desperately so]. Overall a lot of scummy behavior in all of this imo

-> I don't like T-Block. More later.

:059:
 

Jim Morrison

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Warning: this game is becoming stagnant. I see no reason not to end this 14-day-long Day within the next few days with a Doors lynch if nobody has anything really worth giving (maybe, Gheb, you can do something about your god-almighty reads).
I guess we can agree on this now, this game is stagnating. I'd like to know what direction this is taking, is everyone still as willing as before to lynch me and do I get ready to claim or do we look in other directions?
The suspense of not knowing what other people are thinking of is killing me more than your votes.
 

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Well it's just some notes on players and I'm starting with the ones that haven't been talked about very much. Not all my notes on the post #s are to be taken at face value but I find them worth noting anyway because they all reflect a rather clear stance.

Also I'm not going to deliver all content for everybody to get the whole game spoonfed by me. It's not like I'm alone responsible for the slow-down of this game. I mean most of the people aren't doing **** right now.

:059:
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

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1. Red_Ryu
2. Rajam
5. Jim Morrison
6. adisoh
7. T-block
8. Gheb_01
9. Gorf
10. AsianAussie
12. J

~

Of these only Rajam an AA come up as goo lynches to me atm.

@Gheb, what do you feel T-Block's intent with claiming Miller at the start of the game was? I already made up my mind on this issue but I am interested in your thoughts on this.
 

~ Gheb ~

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Eh, I have my theories on that but I don't think talking about it will help the town. I try to treat it as null.

:059:
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

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you seem oblivious to the fact that very few people actually trust kantrip at the moment. nobody cares that you happen to have a town read on him tbh. have you considered the possibility that it's scum claiming an ability that's so anti-town to use that they'll never be asked to use it?
I can agree with this one being a poor response back to Rajam.

It doesn't offer much outside of confusion to others reading this with what Rajam was doing.

you're going to have to summarize for me.

i DO have doubts about the motivation behind his claim. between how he said he thought getting a read on me was a better idea than executing the gambit on rajam, and the way he actually acted at the time, something doesn't quite line up. i wish i could pinpoint exactly why. i think it's that the timings of how his stance on me changes doesn't align... he says his read on me switched to town at a certain point, but if he was actually thinking what he claims to be thinking, his read should have switched earlier. in any case, this is the strongest point against him imo, and even you said his actions could have protown intent. moreover, your reasoning that he couldn't have thought up the gambit in a moment of frustration is flawed. i thought i vouched for his self-meta when you asked for it, but looking back, i guess i didn't. i'm doing it now. i even said when i explained why i thought it was a gambit - kantrip takes a lot of crap, but he takes this game quite seriously, and is able to control his frustration enough that he wouldn't jeopardize his own side out of frustration.

you mentioned being overdefensive against gheb, and i don't really see it to the same degree you're suggesting. in general, kantrip's reads are pretty bad. they are based off mechanical things like that. any attempt to label a situation as TvS, regardless of how solid the reasoning behind it is, would be called an attempt to line up mislynches by someone like him (not quite so bad, but you get the idea).

i feel terrible lynching you after your replacement, but i'm not going to let that get in the way of what needs to be done. i really wish mod would have just let us lynch sokr and have you replace some other slot as i asked. sokr gave off stronger newbscum vibes than i've ever seen in my life. he was non-commital and careful, and even contradicted himself several times in his reads. then you come in and take that BP bait. if you actually are BP, i'm going to feel really bad, and i'll probably find some way to blame kantrip in post-game, but it would be unwise to simply ignore that point on the chance that you actually are BP. it's not conclusive, but it's positive confirmation. and i know you understand why "why would i do this as scum?" is not going to sway me, so i'm not sure why you're even trying to use it (@gorf too... why are you actually buying into this). you see someone fakeclaiming (yeah it was obvious... i would expect you to see it just as clearly as i did) and see that it's easy to paint scum motivations onto that fakeclaim, so you expose it. people aren't likely to label it as pushing a town mislynch because solid reasoning is easy to procure, and you get to be seen as a force in town that gets **** done. you replace into a scummy slot that hasn't done anything worthwhile, so you need some way to defend yourself. the scum motivation is obvious. i know i don't have to explain this to you.

laundry, what are your thoughts on rajam? he's been pretty central, yet i never see you mention him? if i were to lynch someone else over you, it'd be rajam, not kantrip.
This doesn't seem bad to be actually.

I don't see why this post smells like the quote above this one.
 

Asdioh

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Ok, sorry but I can't seem to motivate myself to read D1 right now.

I've been here for all of D2 though, and I don't see any potential lynches besides J, JM, and AA. If anybody has a different preference, they should speak out NOW and put their votes there, before it's too late.


My vote's on J, mostly for his D2 play. I just don't see townJ apathetically putting someone to L-1 after just joining the game and it only being ~24 hours into the second Day, it's that simple.

AA... I honestly don't remember his D1 stuff at all, and his D2 has been... eh. He's looked into Rajam and calls him town, which is cool and all, but he still lacks scumpicks. I'd be fine with his lynch if not J.

JM, I'm still not quite sure why people are calling him scum. I should be rereading his posts to justify a townread (or change it if I find I'm mistaken) but too lazy. I just have a feel.
 
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