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Walgreens Mafia - DRAW game - The mod ****ed up pretty bad...=/

~ Gheb ~

Life is just a party
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SDO:

#726, #731, #736 I kind of like these but they have no back-up. They're just easy stances to look townie with.
#921, #939 considerate posts in a rather heated, pivotal point of the game.

If somebody could summarize SDO's meta as town and as scum that'd be nice [I don't think I've ever seen ScumDO]. Right now I'm leaning town on him and unless the behavior I pointed out contradicts his town-meta I'll move him onto my townie list.

#813, you are unsure about Gorf @Day 1. Does him killing WL clear him for you?
#859, WL vouches for SDO town
#1030, interesting stances on Gorf / RR. How do you feel about them now?

Atm I like SDO more than freeblock.

:059:
 

~ Gheb ~

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Gorf:

#750, very strong stance on WashedSokr slot
#764, why were you OK with him alive if you can shoot him? At that point he claimed BP, right?
#765, kind of contradicts 764

A lot of fluffy post or just opinions more than facts ... a lot of that doesn't matter anymore imo.

#935, 963, after that I wonder why you chose to shoot WL?

Overall, you didn't take a lot of stances on people other than WashedSokr slot and Kantrip. All your reads from toDay seem to be based on nothing ... or nothing we could possibly be aware of. Your push toDay has been JM only ...

You're tunneling hard this game and I still have you as a contender for SK. People shouldn't trust him as much as they do atm.

:059:
 

Rockin

Juggies <3
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Day 2​

Jim Morrison (2) - Gorf, J

J (3) - Rajam, Adsioh, Gheb

Adsioh (1) - Jim Morrison

Not Voting - Asianaussie,, T-block, Red Ryu,

With 9 players, it takes 5 to lynch. Deadline is on Feb. 16 2012

Rajam as been prodded

Very sorry for lack of updates. I've been legitimately lazy as well as been focused on finishing this special project. x.x
 

Rajam

Smash Champion
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Prod-responding

Pretty sure that's BS ... I'm gonna read into that stuff again but I think you're a decent play toDay.

Vote Jim Morrison

:059:
I think it was a pressure vote. It was still early in the game and he got easily convinced, just putting his vote a minute later after your case against Sokr, as Gorf pointed out. I still have that moment sorta fresh in my memory and the sheeping didn't strike me as scummy

Not really fully convinced of going against JM toDay. I need to do some rereads but just from the point of my head I think the best play for toDay is July/J
 

Rajam

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V/LA today because I have a few projects I have to work on, may be on later but maybe not

I also don't get why Rajam is voting me though to be fair I do recall him having a case on July but I thought she responded to it fully and then Rajam didn't really go back at it afterwards. *shrug*
I did. My case was on #690, July replied to it in #771, and I responded back in #800. July has no posts after #800. Now that I went back to search these stuff, I keep my points from both 690 and 800 against July/J. My main points can be resumed in lack of "risking her throat" plus reaching, passing null tells as scum tells.
 

#HBC | J

Prince of DGamesia
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Alright so tonight I'm going to try and get back into this game now that I have some free-time a bit. Sorry for the delay, this week has just been really uppity but I'm gonna try and put more time into the game.

*sees Sang viewing*

What world? o.O
 

#HBC | J

Prince of DGamesia
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Alright since it seems I has some explainings to do, I'll start there with my reads.

I'll go into my scum-reads first because those are more important.

I dislike JM alot due to the fact of his utter sheepness this game. Whenever a popular wagon emerged during D1, he would hop onto it. A point that I liked by Gheb was the point that he was subtly buddying Gheb and it was also pointed out by my slot, July, that he was doing as such which was spot on. I don't get why he was doing as such and when called out, he doesn't stop doing as such. His intentions between the WL and Kanty wagons were hop-on reasonings that didn't even seem to have much thought/care behind them. That's a thing that has annoyed me with JM, he really doesn't seem to care who dies whatsoever as long as it is himself. I don't see the town motive nor do I see any scum-hunting that isn't provoked by someone else this game. He needs that kick in the rear to do something which is just =/ overall.

That's why I feel my vote belongs on him.

The reason I dislike Rajam is he is giving me the same vibe he did in F&L mafia where he is always playing that damn catch-up game. Throughout the game his reads have been back and forth and not really the biggest influence this game. He is in the background and skating by watching this JM/J stuff go along with doing the bare minimum to not be called out on it. I really do not understand why Asdioh has a reason to believe he is town so adamantly and the same with Gorf on his push on me based on something null like my apathy so far. That's the major reason I don't like Rajam this game since it's primarily gut moreso than actually factual content.

FoS: Rajam

With regards to my town reads, I'm not going to go into a bellicose degree explaining it out since it is mostly likes towards it.

Gheb is my strongest town-read by far this game. He is actively trying to move this game forward and being extremely open with his mind. He is also calling people out for the right reasons like his jump-on onto me is based on me not responding to things and being inactive which is the right call-out unlike Rajam who is trying to indict me with points that he had against July. Tbh, when I was reading his Sokr case I was like "Oh snap, good call-out cuz I remember seeing that." or like "Wow...gheb is like me on the wavelength" xD it sounds silly but yeah. I haven't seen much to really call Gheb scum. Something though that is buggying me a bit about him is his insistence that there could be a indy in Gorf but not really doing much to say Gorf is scum and moreso saying that he could be indy if that makes sense.

Asdioh is a pretty good town read as well. The only thing that he bugs me is his vote on me is really weird with the way he came about and the way he justified it with saying that I wasn't being firm in what I was doing which couldn't have been true because I wasn't doing anything concrete yet. I liked though throughout the day how complacent he was because it reads really well, to me, as TownAsdioh. Another point that made me think Asdioh was town was when he voted Kanty over WL in the end of the day because he could have just gone the easy way out and ended the day and kept his hands clean but he decided to risk his name and switch the lynch to Kanty when it seemed like WL. Although it turned up wrong, I don't really see the scum intent in his position, especially, considering that WL flipped town as well. I could see a scumAsdioh doing as such to help a scum-buddy but it wasn't the case.

A combined point for both Gheb/Asdioh for me is that they both are trying to scum-hunt and move this game forward when in reality this game could just sink further and further and closer and closer to deadline. This also has to deal with me being scum with both Gheb/Asdioh before and knowing a little of their mindset if they still play similiary since I don't really thinkg Asdioh has been scum since DGamesia (though to be fair, he didn't do ANYTHING that game so I don't know if I can consider that meta) and then Gheb I can't recall as mafia since like Mafia Royal Sleepover where we did plan to wait out the deadline when we were both up for lynch.

Questions:

Rajam, you said you think in your head my slot is the best lynch. Why? My slot is entirely null for the most part because July didn't get to do that much due to her sickness and my general lack of inactivity due to busyness. I need to see a better case as to why I am scum for you because it doesn't seem real your suspicion if you are just trying to dig up old points against July to incriminate me.

Asdioh, why do I deserve your vote than JM. Your read on JM is non-commital and I don't like that so give a legit stance on him please. What is JM? Town or Scum? You've danced around this topic.

That's all I can think of off the top of my head but I need to re-read the last few pages a bit more in detail but there's something for now. ^^
 

#HBC | J

Prince of DGamesia
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@J, Rajam

Let's discuss the possibility of Tblock / Ryu being scum together. Why / Why not?

:059:
TB/Ryu scum-team eh? Well, I'm not thinking why not because of their argument earlier in the game with the miller situation. It is a bit of shallow logic but I don't see a scum-team consisting of TB/Ryu as scum doing that. However, both TB and Ryu have been playing a nullish game throughout with doing nothing toDay. Let me go into each seperately.

T-Block:
  • YesterDay he was a front-runner in the conversation and doing things actively.
  • I believed his gambit to look more towny than scummy, personally, but toDay he hasn't really provided anything new or relevant. He basically threw his vote on JM but then unvoted him when Asdioh began giving me flak for it.
  • I liked the content TB was providing yesterDay though. When he did talk, it seemed like scum-hunting especially when he was going against Kanty and trying to figure him out even up until deadline.

Those are the main points for T-B so I will say that I am leaning towards: Null-Town TB

Red Ryu:
  • Hasn't really been an influence on the game at all since the first couple of pages in the game.
  • I have this really bad gut feeling that all RR is doing this game is riding out that pass he has somehow acquired w.r.t. the Miller dilemna.
  • I can't recall any individual scum-hunting from him, but it is also grouped in with the fact that he isn't here or even doing anything.
  • He has been pushing Asdioh this game, but not really at the same time. He voted Gorf saying he was the scummier version of Asdioh but when Gorf claimed vig and he unvoted Gorf he didn't move his vote back onto Asdioh nor does he try and go back to wanting Asdioh dead.
  • In his most recent post of saying who could die, he doesn't mention Asdioh at all and says AA/JM can die. I'm curious why I can't die and I am also wondering why AA now because that is the first I've heard of it. In fact, I don't really recall him saying anything on JM too.

So it seems my points on RR are forming up a bit more than I actually thought when I listed them out. xD I am leaning scum on him now and actually a bit more heavily than I was on Rajam because Rajam is more gut and RR seems to have more substantial things against him.

FoS: Red Ryu

This reminds me: Is it me or is J uncomfortably not doing much toDay?
Just wanted to chime in here and say that is really wasn't because I was alright with doing much is just time is a mother ducker ya know?

I change my mind at the current time. I'd like to see one of JM/RR go to die toDay. Though I don't know when the deadline is so I don't know if I have the amount of time to push RR some more.
 

#HBC | J

Prince of DGamesia
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Wait just saw the deadline and we have 6 days to go.

Unvote
Vote: Red Ryu


Major concern: DO something please. ^^
 

Jim Morrison

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So you think his miller counterclaim was faked?

Also, your change in votes seems very iffy and a good way to start watering down your suspicion on me as soon as others are also not as willing to lynch me. Why are you voting RR now? Has he not done enough or should he just die?
 

asianaussie

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k im done


Wait, there's something that doesn't fit in this whole Kantrip vs WL regarding the BP crumb/claim/fake crumb/etc... if Sokr crumbed his role at some point, and if WL is now lying (which would mean WL is scum and probably the crumb Sokr did was a fake crumb), wouldn't then WL's scummates told them what was the fake crumb Sokr did?¿?
not much here, crumb was fake, WL lied but he was town, BIG WHOOP and a pile of wifom


ok if there wasn't actually an in-game crumb, then what are the odds of Kantrip guessing WL's role is a BP???

answer: super low.

Lynch WL
fair enough, appears to be following up on the liar = scum thing (even though this game has already seen one gambit which not much came out of)

answering myself: could be indy too


yeah whatever just lynch him
bit too casual for my liking, he is responding to his own post rather uselessly as well, not a helpful post

@bolded: WL voiced suspicion on Kantrip when Kantrip still had a town read on Sokr's slot, and when Kantrip wasn't willing to bomb him. If Kantrip would've gotten in real danger of being lynched, he would've bombed whoever he believed was scum; probably me.

thing is, if WL is town, then how the hell did Kantrip guessed his role... that's highly unlikely
good analysis, though it still assumes that kantrip has bomber ability...doesn't say much town or otherwise, but do note that his sudden flurry of activity (replying to stuff on the same page too) is probably an attempt to look better, so good for him

NOTE: I missed a post here, but it is directly below the above one:
I don't. If anything this whole exchange has just strenghtened even more my town read on Kantrip.
in relation to kantrip using his terrorist bomb on WL

fair enough, solidified townread

I'm still in catch up status but at the same time I'm also aware of late events since I've skimmed/read them. Basically I'm switching between addressing issues from my catch up and addressing some recent issues. I wanted to see WL insights and then Kantrip's gambit called my attention.

Gorf answer my previous questions


Why do we have to use the ability ¿?

Personally I'd just never use it, unless as I've been saying we have something more solid than a strong scumpick D1, for example, a cop guilty, and Kantrip starts to get scummy which won't happen

Why do we have to kill WL via Kantrip? I'd just lynch WL and move on. Also my read on Kantrip town is stronger than WL scum (although at this time with the gambit they're pretty close) so that's another reason of why I don't support Kantrip comitting suicide.
this is pretty good, i like how he prefers lynching over needing to sacrifice who he believes to be town, though he is oddly conservative

Hey Red Ryu move your vote to WL, your vote is currently on a useless place and also it's friday and it's fun fun fun



Offer a 20% discount on all of Walgreens' tuna cans: Asdioh
getting people to vote WL and some other dumbness, pushing asdioh to do stuff, looks like he wants to move the game along, good on him (ignoring the fact he's still behind)

Following this reasoning we must kill everyone because they're not confirmed town until they flip...

Tblock why do you insist on using Kantrip's ability instead of following a normal course? Isn't Kantrip a town read to you? if not explain why
Follow-up from above, he's looking more and more towny tbh

ah nvm, but I still think you're pushing it a little too far in not believing Kantrip's claim when he basically claimed a super-easy-to-check-at-any-time role, which I don't see scum doing. Still my question of why you want to use the ability now Day 1 / Night 1 remains, instead of waiting some more when more solid info regarding night actions/flips is on the table. You seem to want to use the ability now desperately just because
still good stuff, ok reasoning, towny

Even if somehow Kantrip is scum and didn't see the claim, he still should have scummates and the probability of all of them missing the claim is.... zero

The only other scenario of scum-Kantrip is Kantrip being indy but if that's the case why did he claim a suicide role then


Just no and no. All this just sums towards Kantrip town
still very good

although i still dont know where he claimed, lol

This is not an explanation. Regardless of it's scummy or anti-town, you're not specifying why me considering scummy Asdioh in the T-block vs RR exchange (when Tblock's miller claim was still up) is/was weird
Hrm.

The difference is that I read carefully what I read, and I wasn't retracting in the next post saying "I don't think Tblock is scummy though!"
Still good.

Why do you suggest yourself? If you're town you wouldn't want the cop to waste an opportunity to find scum right?

Also why so few people (only two)?
Yup. Although the second question is filler.

TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY POSTS LATER

Prod-doging ¿?

Been sick during weekend, still not fully recovered. I'll see if I can post something later.
Oh. Kay.

This is not a solid reason for considering Kantrip scum. All of these points could easily go on a town member; most if not all of these points are null. In a 12-man players with a miller, it's very likely that there are only 2 mafia. A town terrorist role isn't unlikely at all.

Also for the record, I think this is the point where all looks shift towards Kantrip (not really aware of what happens after page ~ 21 - 40ppp - but if Kantrip got lynched I'd say this post is the starting point), and I consider these weak reasons for shifting. By the time WL did this post, Kantrip wasn't willing to bomb WL so it was a safe accusation, since probably Kantrip would've bombed someone else under pressure, like me.

Without further reading what has happened in the last ~8 pages other than Kantrip dying and bombing Gorf, I still consider Sokr/WL my main scumpick
This would be good, but sadly he still does not consider the possibility Kantrip is lying about the role *despite* his insistence that Kantrip would have detonated on someone else by this point due to a WL townread...? I dunno, I'm getting confused. BUT THE MAIN POINT IS THAT KANTRIP ADMITTED HIS ROLE WAS FALSE JUST TEN POSTS PRIOR, GOD. I cannot take this post seriously, it might as well be a troll post, as somebody immediately points out.

Also talking very earnestly about a scumpick without reading EIGHT PAGES OF 40PPP, this is not good play. Meh.

Kantrip, if you haven't, could you clarify the BP crumb issue? If it wasn't something in-game / never existed, then why didn't you bomb WL instead?
See above.

Gorf, this is the 1st time I mentioned suspicion on Sokr
answering a question

Wait, I can understand Red Ryu being "cleared" due to claim shenanigans, but why T-block? One thing is having a town read on him, and something completely different is saying he is clear due to claims
Good question. WL might've had his reasons though, but that doesn't take the merit away from the question.

HE IS NOW TWO HUNDRED POSTS BEHIND SO YOU WILL EXCUSE ME FOR NOT REALLY ANALYSING THESE TWO POSTS

Considering Kantrip "guessed" WL's role, I think the second scenario (underlined) is unlikely, and my bet is that WL voiced a "safe" suspicion on Kantrip since at that time Kantrip had Sokr's slot as town and wasn't willing to bomb him
this is fair enough

I don't understand the urge to use Kantrip's ability, instead of following the normal course of Days, Nights, lynches, Night Kills. Even if Kantrip bombing WL produces 1 town and 1 scum down (with WL being scum, and 1 scum - 1 town being a good exchange), we'd have only a few days left for deciding who to lynch, instead of a full Day for deciding the same. Even with a 1-1 exchange, if we would've mislynch then, and plus Night Kills, we'd just lose the initial advantage of the 1-1 exchange. Using a full Day (next Day) + 1 scum down via lynch + Night Kill(s) seems a lot wiser to me than deciding who to lynch using only a full rl days + 1 scum down + 1 town down + yet someone to lynch + Night Kill(s).
math, math glorious insidious math

IT IS NOW DAY TWO, HURRAY

vote: J

Gorf's claim and actions make a lot of sense now tbh. For example, why he chose to believe WL over Kantrip when Kantrip "guessed" WL's role (which I was ready to criticize toDay but after seeing the claim it makes a lot of sense). Gorf town unless someone cclaims him. That action doesn't even make sense as indy so Gorf is town

There's some players though that don't make sense regarding the same thing: why they chose to believe WL instead of Kantrip when Kantrip "guessed" WL's role?... from the top of my head, both Gheb and JM followed that route

I'm still willing to let Gheb aside for now

scum is between J/July, aa and JM, imo

Asdioh, RR, Gorf are strong town reads. then T-block, then Gheb
t-block addresses this, SK would want maf gone just as much as town does, he explains it below rather well

still really casually throwing out strong town reads and strong scum reads and stuff, i am never one to agree with doing that

Unlikely. Indy Gorf would've chosen to go against Sokr/WL, since he would've either flipped scum or BP. Saving him D1 for testing his BP claim N1 is a very town-vig action.

@Gheb and Jim Morrison: your reads on July/J?
This absolutely ignores Kantrip "guessing" WL's role
Stubborn adherence. He sort of has a point, but Kantrip wasn't playing too great either, especially with the freaking unclaim. You know what, this absolutely ignores Kantrip revealing he lied about bomber role.

Ditto to my previous post.
Ditto to my previous post.

The play makes no sense since Gorf couldn't know for sure if WL was lying or not about the BP. Saving him for Night to NKill him was a risky thing to do as SK since it could've just wasted him a Night phase. SK would've wanted to just lynch WL since it was a safer thing to do taking into account the uncertainty between scum and BP. Same goes for Mafia. Hence Gorf is town
Really good reasoning, I like this. Still too absolute in his decisions, but it's good.

JM what did you meant by this? Could you go into detail?
Hrm.

JM don't forget to address my 1179
More Hrm.

Explain these reads. You haven't yet iirc
I personally like this question.

Prod-responding



I think it was a pressure vote. It was still early in the game and he got easily convinced, just putting his vote a minute later after your case against Sokr, as Gorf pointed out. I still have that moment sorta fresh in my memory and the sheeping didn't strike me as scummy

Not really fully convinced of going against JM toDay. I need to do some rereads but just from the point of my head I think the best play for toDay is July/J
this is not bad but makes a bunch of assumptions

and i didn't find this particular instance of 'sheeping' scummy either

The points from my #690 still remain, specially the overall impressions I mention at the end.
i guess t's good he's keeping track of his scumreads now but they're obviously not very current

I did. My case was on #690, July replied to it in #771, and I responded back in #800. July has no posts after #800. Now that I went back to search these stuff, I keep my points from both 690 and 800 against July/J. My main points can be resumed in lack of "risking her throat" plus reaching, passing null tells as scum tells.
Seems he's doing stuff. Good for him.

I like these reads :3

Asdioh what do you think of aa
Nothing much. Chasing a scumread.


rajam's reading pretty solidly town atm, i hope he keeps it up

i don't like how he picks solid townreads and then scumreads by what is probably deduction (that is what likely he is doing (if unconsciously), i just iso'd the guy) and how he defends swinging reads wildly from scum to town/vice versa, but i would be against lynching him for now

ill do actual relevant stuff soon
 

~ Gheb ~

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I ... don't like J's #1331 =/

Is there anybody not suspicious of JM? If so he should speak up asap.

Reading through AAs post on Rajam ...

:059:
 

~ Gheb ~

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Bah, I don't like that summary, AA. You're going way too much for the "good point = pro-town" route, which is huge fallacy. All of the "good points" Rajam made could've been made by scum, easily.

:059:
 

~ Gheb ~

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I don't think he's scum either.

AA, do you think JM is scum or not. Please answer this.

:059:
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

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I'll read up on the walla so texts later, but right now I need to rethink this of AA and Rajam, if I think both are scum, I really don't think AA is working this hard on a bus, need to rethink my reads.
 

#HBC | J

Prince of DGamesia
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Well Gheb, could you explain what you don't like about my read's post? Could you also explain your JMtown read?

JM, his miller CC could be faked and it could not, regardless, it's WIFOM. I also don't like how you just completely bypass what I said w.r.t. why I wanted RR dead. ;_; I explained why and also said that I still have you as a scum-read.
 

Jim Morrison

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JM, his miller CC could be faked and it could not, regardless, it's WIFOM. I also don't like how you just completely bypass what I said w.r.t. why I wanted RR dead. ;_; I explained why and also said that I still have you as a scum-read.
Of course it's WIFOM, but you can't just disregard it because it is. You have to look at odds and at what someone would do.

The risk of counterclaiming a miller claim would be pretty high. The odds of your counterclaim being succesful, in that T-block was only doing a gambit, seem even so much more smaller to me. The fact that RR has counterclaimed T-block, who has later unclaimed miller, has already semi-cleared RR to me. I agree with some of your points, but also some of them don't seem very legit. The main thing that bugs me of RR, which I would see as a scumread if he weren't miller, is the fact that he so often comes in, posts his reads w.r.t. the latest post, then disappears, never following up on ANYTHING he says. This combined with his sporadic posting times makes me dislike his play A LOT.

Also, I don't think Gheb has a town read on me at all, how did you come to this conclusion?
 

#HBC | J

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He keeps saying that you aren't scum which is why I came to the conclusion of him having you as town. If you aren't scum to him, what are you? =P

So you agree with me based on a few of my points w.r.t. RR but the thing that is stopping you is the fact that you are taking his Miller CC as true due to delving into the WIFOM of it all? I'm sorry but I like to stick to more concrete things myself. =p

*Live-update*

TB vote? Where did that come from? I thought you were on AA. o_O
 

Jim Morrison

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Yes but a night's sleep made me put it in perspective, and T-block just didn't make sense. I'll come back to him later, look back at his posts in the meantime.
 

#HBC | J

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Well I'm going to need some explanation/reasoning to go after TBscum. =P The only person who showed something against TB was Gheb. So if you feel TB is scum, do you agree with what Gheb posted?
 

Jim Morrison

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Gonna be honest, I read the post but didn't look back at the posts of T-block, because I was lazy, so I have no idea what his points actually were. I do know his points were more around the latter part of the day, which I also still have to look into.

But his early game was just STINKY.
 

#HBC | J

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Well can you explain what about his early play was stinky? ;P Walk me through the mind of JM for a bit.
 

Jim Morrison

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How about tomorrow?

I have nothing to go by now, I didn't prepare this lol, I just have a gut read on T-block which I'll look into and explain more tomorrow, gonna study now, haven't done a thing all day ;x
 

~ Gheb ~

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Well Gheb, could you explain what you don't like about my read's post?
Most stances in that post seem conformistic. Not that can actually make a case based on this, nor do I think it's straigth-up scummy ... I just don't like it, it looks unlike you and for the amount of what you posted it does very little to actually move this game forwards.

Could you also explain your JMtown read?
I have no town read on JM.

I want those who have a town read on him - or at least a not-scum read - to speak up asap.

:059:
 

~ Gheb ~

Life is just a party
Joined
Jun 27, 2008
Messages
16,916
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This game is way too inactive. I think he should just lynch any inactive player at this point. We're not getting anywhere at this rate.

:059:
 

Asdioh

Not Asidoh
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
16,200
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Back from weekend stuff and I see I didn't miss much.
Gheb, who are the inactive players we should maybe lynch?
 

#HBC | J

Prince of DGamesia
Joined
Feb 14, 2010
Messages
7,591
Location
Colorado
The inactive pile-up leads to these sort of people:

Gorf/TB/RR

to a lesser extant:

AA/Rajam

Active to a point:

J/Asdioh/Gheb/JM

We already know my opinion on the inactive list if we choose somewhere. =3
 

#HBC | J

Prince of DGamesia
Joined
Feb 14, 2010
Messages
7,591
Location
Colorado
I keep trying to re-read AA's post but I am like getting nothing indicative of alignment from his posts and smacks him in the middle of my null list with like nothing to go off of. Grrr infuriating.

AA, who should we lynch in your opinion? Let's say you have Gorf's gun, who would you shoot in this very second?
 
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