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Walgreens Mafia - DRAW game - The mod ****ed up pretty bad...=/

Kantrip

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Saving his ***? Looking townie? Seriouy Gorf what are you even saying? You saying this now in an attempt to pretty much clear him is reason enough.

WL you're twisting my words. Your concern was that you didn't believe I could execute the gambit while frustrated. I was only telling you that I am capable. I never said that it makes me town, or that I couldn't have faked the frustration as scum. But that wasn't your concern.

FoS: Gorf
 

Kantrip

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To be honest I'm fine with being the lynch actually. I'm not an asset to town and I'll be a question mark until LyLo anyways. I think my lynch would actually be beneficial since there are a lot of interactions with me.

If you want reasoning it may be longer Asdioh but my scum leans are WashedLaundry, Gorf, and Gheb. Not as a team but more as separate scumpicks.
 

#HBC | Gorf

toastin walrus since 4/20 maaaan
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Saving his ***? Looking townie? Seriouy Gorf what are you even saying? You saying this now in an attempt to pretty much clear him is reason enough.

WL you're twisting my words. Your concern was that you didn't believe I could execute the gambit while frustrated. I was only telling you that I am capable. I never said that it makes me town, or that I couldn't have faked the frustration as scum. But that wasn't your concern.

FoS: Gorf
No, and no. If he was really looking to save his arse as scum (and assuming you're calling yourself town), he'd probz try his hardest to find something incriminating about one of his scumbuddies that have pressure but don't have said thing in the open, and roll with that... At least that's what I'd do in his position. But no, he went OUT OF HIS WAY to make it so that you'd bomb em, calling your bluff. I don't think, hell I'm sure, he wouldn't have the balls to do that as scum. And looking townie? He could've creatively sheeped to if he wanted to accomplish that. You have a massively unwarranted FoS on me if you're using THAT as your basis, swine.
 

#HBC | Laundry

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WL you're twisting my words. Your concern was that you didn't believe I could execute the gambit while frustrated. I was only telling you that I am capable. I never said that it makes me town, or that I couldn't have faked the frustration as scum. But that wasn't your concern.
Okay, so then what was the point of even saying it?

You have yet to come up with an appropriate response to any of my points against you and you're now giving up.
 

#HBC | Gorf

toastin walrus since 4/20 maaaan
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Kantrip you seem to use WIFOM in order to confuse yourself and the people around you, and demonstrate time and time again that YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND IT. I was kind of in a similar position a while back... If you really wanna be good, don't overanalyze this gogdamn game all the time, cuz all you do (and when I say you I mean you) is confuse and fluster the shiz out of yourself.
 

#HBC | Laundry

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Kantrip, if you were town, you'd be fighting your own bloody lynch or at least aiding town as best you could. The fact that you're shutting up now speaks loads.

Freeblock, get in here. I see you posting in Adventure Time mafia, but that's not the only mafia game you're in.

C'mon, give me someone to talk to. This game's stagnating and I'm curious why.
 

T-block

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why isn't he scum for not fighting his lynch?

it doesn't actually speak loads. he's done it before as town... thinking that his lynch will bring a lot of information to town (if he is town, i don't think it would, but it's not inconceivable that he would think so). he's taken a lot of flack for not only his play this game, but for his play in general, so a bit of a defeatist tone can be justified, and should not be immediately labelled as scum AtE.
 

Jim Morrison

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I am officially in favour of keeping WL alive and lynching Kantrip instead ToDay.

I am in agreement with WL's #930 and Kantrip's defense didn't suffice for me. Also, the fact that I like the way WL plays the game a lot more than Kantrip's way is not unimportant.
 

#HBC | Laundry

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why isn't he scum for not fighting his lynch?

it doesn't actually speak loads. he's done it before as town... thinking that his lynch will bring a lot of information to town (if he is town, i don't think it would, but it's not inconceivable that he would think so). he's taken a lot of flack for not only his play this game, but for his play in general, so a bit of a defeatist tone can be justified, and should not be immediately labelled as scum AtE.
Okay.

Why isn't he scum for the other **** he's done?
 

T-block

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you're going to have to summarize for me.

i DO have doubts about the motivation behind his claim. between how he said he thought getting a read on me was a better idea than executing the gambit on rajam, and the way he actually acted at the time, something doesn't quite line up. i wish i could pinpoint exactly why. i think it's that the timings of how his stance on me changes doesn't align... he says his read on me switched to town at a certain point, but if he was actually thinking what he claims to be thinking, his read should have switched earlier. in any case, this is the strongest point against him imo, and even you said his actions could have protown intent. moreover, your reasoning that he couldn't have thought up the gambit in a moment of frustration is flawed. i thought i vouched for his self-meta when you asked for it, but looking back, i guess i didn't. i'm doing it now. i even said when i explained why i thought it was a gambit - kantrip takes a lot of crap, but he takes this game quite seriously, and is able to control his frustration enough that he wouldn't jeopardize his own side out of frustration.

you mentioned being overdefensive against gheb, and i don't really see it to the same degree you're suggesting. in general, kantrip's reads are pretty bad. they are based off mechanical things like that. any attempt to label a situation as TvS, regardless of how solid the reasoning behind it is, would be called an attempt to line up mislynches by someone like him (not quite so bad, but you get the idea).

i feel terrible lynching you after your replacement, but i'm not going to let that get in the way of what needs to be done. i really wish mod would have just let us lynch sokr and have you replace some other slot as i asked. sokr gave off stronger newbscum vibes than i've ever seen in my life. he was non-commital and careful, and even contradicted himself several times in his reads. then you come in and take that BP bait. if you actually are BP, i'm going to feel really bad, and i'll probably find some way to blame kantrip in post-game, but it would be unwise to simply ignore that point on the chance that you actually are BP. it's not conclusive, but it's positive confirmation. and i know you understand why "why would i do this as scum?" is not going to sway me, so i'm not sure why you're even trying to use it (@gorf too... why are you actually buying into this). you see someone fakeclaiming (yeah it was obvious... i would expect you to see it just as clearly as i did) and see that it's easy to paint scum motivations onto that fakeclaim, so you expose it. people aren't likely to label it as pushing a town mislynch because solid reasoning is easy to procure, and you get to be seen as a force in town that gets **** done. you replace into a scummy slot that hasn't done anything worthwhile, so you need some way to defend yourself. the scum motivation is obvious. i know i don't have to explain this to you.

laundry, what are your thoughts on rajam? he's been pretty central, yet i never see you mention him? if i were to lynch someone else over you, it'd be rajam, not kantrip.
 

~ Gheb ~

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I have my last exam tomorrow so I will be around @ deadline but not read up. Somebody give me a good reason to keep Kantrip alive 'cuz I personally don't see any.

:059:
 

#HBC | Gorf

toastin walrus since 4/20 maaaan
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@Your first two paragraphs in your 973

It seems like so much of your reason to clear em and to let em live is meta dude. But the thing is, everything laundry's presented reigns true, and I've played with Kantrip like twice. When I look back at his scummy actions after he does them, it ends up becoming pretty clear that he isn't doing em with scummy intents... but this game just feels much more like scumKantrip. Everything is just too awkward and too convenient for me to believe otherwise.

As far as buying into the stuff Laundry's saying, take into account these two things: Kantrip KNOWS Sokr on a personal level and actually called Sokr's uninterest in the game prior to his replacing out (iirc, if I'm wrong oh well but the point still remains), and if you read back, you can kinda see a corrolation between the laziness of his posting + the scumminess + the time dwindling to his replacing out. Laundry came in with predetermined reads which, to me, were totally indistinguishable of alignment, which I still believe. But then, notice how there ARE a good amount of people that did buy into Kantrip's claim even after your whole calling Kantrip out on it. It just doesn't make sense for me to see scumWL just forcing Kantrip to blow em up if his claim was legit. AND, Laundry pointing out some of the flaws that he DID point out from the gambit is just totally something I just can't see him faking. I mean the possibility of S v S between them is still POSSIBLE (I'd bid unlikely but still POSSIBLE), but out of the two Laundry, with his play, just doesn't seem scum at all, while Kantrip really does so.
 

T-block

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i'm not clearing on meta. there's a difference between using meta to call someone town and using meta to call someone's scummy behaviour null. the former is a bad idea. the latter is what i'm doing.

elaborate for me, gorf. why doesn't it make sense that scumWL would call out kantrip? why can't you see him faking pointing out what he did? i think that's a pretty severe underestimation of WL's ability.

i agree that SvS is unlikely though.
 

#HBC | Gorf

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I'm not underestimating WL's ability, the scenario we're in just doesn't add up, and I'll try my best to elaborate for you either tonight or when I get home tomorrow so I can physically look back and whatnot.
 

#HBC | Laundry

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and i know you understand why "why would i do this as scum?" is not going to sway me, so i'm not sure why you're even trying to use it (@gorf too... why are you actually buying into this). you see someone fakeclaiming (yeah it was obvious... i would expect you to see it just as clearly as i did) and see that it's easy to paint scum motivations onto that fakeclaim, so you expose it. people aren't likely to label it as pushing a town mislynch because solid reasoning is easy to procure, and you get to be seen as a force in town that gets **** done. you replace into a scummy slot that hasn't done anything worthwhile, so you need some way to defend yourself. the scum motivation is obvious. i know i don't have to explain this to you.
I understand your logic and have no contests to it. There's nothing to be explained, you covered your bases well.

The problem is, you think it's easy enough to paint scum motivations on a fakeclaim yet aren't you painting scum motivations onto exposing a gambit I found scummy? You're falling victim to the same points you're making against me.

laundry, what are your thoughts on rajam? he's been pretty central, yet i never see you mention him? if i were to lynch someone else over you, it'd be rajam, not kantrip.
I thought he was somewhere between useless and scum when I replaced into the game. Since then he's posted a few things that have made me alter my read. I think I said as much during a stream of posts but I need to go back and rediscover why I thought that way.
 

#HBC | Laundry

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Rediscovered it. Yeh I think Rajam's okay for the moment. Much more willing to throw Mentos into the lynch pool than Rajam.
 

T-block

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I understand your logic and have no contests to it. There's nothing to be explained, you covered your bases well.

The problem is, you think it's easy enough to paint scum motivations on a fakeclaim yet aren't you painting scum motivations onto exposing a gambit I found scummy? You're falling victim to the same points you're making against me.



I thought he was somewhere between useless and scum when I replaced into the game. Since then he's posted a few things that have made me alter my read. I think I said as much during a stream of posts but I need to go back and rediscover why I thought that way.
I never said you were scum for exposing the gambit. I'm just showing why it doesn't make you town.

:phone:
 

Kantrip

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So Gorf and I completely swapped opinions coming in here.

Gorf, since WL KNEW I was maintaining a gambit, why did he call me out on it? That's not something town should have to do. Especially when he did it while I was calling him out on his super scummy fake claim. He was deflecting hardcore.
 

#HBC | Gorf

toastin walrus since 4/20 maaaan
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Umm, if he thought it was being held for bad reason, like survival, or deflection, or riding it out for longer than any reason that it would be protown, then yea I'd say that as town he should have called it, and he did. That's been explained multiple times throughout this thread actually, and many of which soon after you revealed your gambit. And besides, he wasn't deflecting, he was bringing something else onto the table WHILE being outspoken about the defense he needed to take for his slot... Notice how he's made zero attempt to draw attention away from Sokr's bad play... Your fake claim ended up becoming something you engulfed yourself in, and I'm sure you wouldn't have revealed that if you weren't basically forced to. You had SO many opportunities to come out with the fact that it wasn't a gambit (like, for example, when the conversation shifted from TB's miller gambit, or even when you did the whole trap card thingy. The possibilities were plentiful), but you chose to keep the facade until forced out of it.
 

Rockin

Juggies <3
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Day 1

Rajam (1) - July,

Washedlaundry (4) - Assianaussie , Rajam, Kantrip, T-block

Kantrip (4) - Washedlaundry, Gheb, Gorf, Jim Morrison

Asdioh (1) - Red Ryu

Not Voting - Mentosman,

With 12 players, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is in Jan. 30th

July is currently V/LA till further noticed
 

#HBC | Gorf

toastin walrus since 4/20 maaaan
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Probably cuz I wasn't even really in consideration for you scum at the time... I think at the time I was still headstrong about lynching Laundry.
 

Kantrip

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I already said why I held onto it. I wanted to draw scum Night Actions AND I was waiting to use a fake command on the already-claimed Rajam. I even asked to make sure Rajam had claimed when I was planning to execute it. This was all explained.

Gheb and JM had already expressed that they would find me scum if I was faking. By calling me out WL essentially swaps JM and Gheb from their suspicion on Sokr and puts it on me. Seeing as they are the only ones with a case on Sokr, this ALONE pretty much saves WL's ***. If you can't see how THAT helps scumWL than I don't know what to say to you.

I think you're scum with him though.

Lynch WL, look into Gorf and then maybe July. Also don't like that JM's been sheeping Gheb.
 

Kantrip

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So me holding onto the gambit is scummy? But you didn't realize this until the scummiest player in the game said it?
 

#HBC | Gorf

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I already said why I held onto it. I wanted to draw scum Night Actions AND I was waiting to use a fake command on the already-claimed Rajam. I even asked to make sure Rajam had claimed when I was planning to execute it. This was all explained.

Gheb and JM had already expressed that they would find me scum if I was faking. By calling me out WL essentially swaps JM and Gheb from their suspicion on Sokr and puts it on me. Seeing as they are the only ones with a case on Sokr, this ALONE pretty much saves WL's ***. If you can't see how THAT helps scumWL than I don't know what to say to you.

I think you're scum with him though.

Lynch WL, look into Gorf and then maybe July. Also don't like that JM's been sheeping Gheb.
YOU'RE SO CUTE, COMING UP WITH THAT OUT OF NOWHERE (and don't call that queermosexifag fos up as suspicion for me cuz that bullshiz).

I don't believe you would have all of that in mind when making that gambit, and using that as the reason to keep your gambit going @the first paragraph. Lemme see the quote where you said that if you can. And I don't see ANY WL try'na save his arse by calling your case out, cuz buddy, he has like four votes on him right now, zero of which being Doors OR GBizzle... You think that, first of all, those two are so much of puppets as to just sway their votes upon your being called out (that's what I'm getting and if that's the case then you need to get off your ego trip mang), and second of all, that EVERYBODY would just follow em off of Laundry's wagon and onto yours? I know that that didn't even cross my mind...

Oh and at your last post... Yea that's pretty much it. Problem?
 

Kantrip

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I've found you scummy a lot Gorf, and I feel like WL's pretty legit suspicion on you that he's doing nothing about is last-minute distancing (since he assumed he was getting lynched when he joined the game).

A WL/Gorf scumteam isn't some random thing I'm just saying now.
 

Kantrip

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Gorf...

Gheb and JM CLEARLY STATED they would find me scummy if I was faking. So WL essentially swaps both their votes over to me by forcing me to out. Pretty smart IMO, well played WL. The kind of scum play I respect. The bullying method I don't respect, Gorf. Less skill and more superimposed presence. But that's neither here nor there.

My point is that Gheb and JM are on my wagon because of my fake claim, WL for the same reason and to save himself, and you? Well, what's your reasoning, Gorf?
 

Kantrip

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I feel like at least one scum definitely lies in the RR/July/mentos pool.

WL and Gorf are my main FoS's.

If people ACTUALLY think I'm scum over WL for play-related reasons then I want to hear them.

Gheb, T-block, Asdioh are townreads.
Rajam, asianaussie town leans.
Mentos, RR, July, Jim Morrison null.
Gorf scummy.
WL scum.
 

#HBC | Gorf

toastin walrus since 4/20 maaaan
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Kantrip said:
I've found you scummy a lot Gorf, and I feel like WL's pretty legit suspicion on you that he's doing nothing about is last-minute distancing (since he assumed he was getting lynched when he joined the game).

A WL/Gorf scumteam isn't some random thing I'm just saying now.
Prove it swine... Besides hasn't it kinda been established that he couldn't have faked any of those reads that he put out since he did it so quick and from a 3rd person's perspective?

Kantrip said:
Gheb and JM CLEARLY STATED they would find me scummy if I was faking. So WL essentially swaps both their votes over to me by forcing me to out.
First off, I don't remember it but I'll take your word for it since it can probz be looked up... But if WL's hulabaloo behind making you come out with the fakeclaim is SO INDESCRIBABLY SCUMMY... Why didn't GBizzle or Doors catch it... and why didn't they just find you scummy... while keeping their vote on the supposedly still scummy WL?

Kantrip said:
Pretty smart IMO, well played WL. The kind of scum play I respect. The bullying method I don't respect, Gorf. Less skill and more superimposed presence. But that's neither here nor there.
Need some cheese with that whine?

Kantrip said:
My point is that Gheb and JM are on my wagon because of my fake claim, WL for the same reason and to save himself, and you? Well, what's your reasoning, Gorf?
Jesus stop being so closed minded, arrogant, and victimizing yourself dude...
 

Kantrip

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If I'm a swine then you're quite the pool of mud, scum. When I speculated that I don't have any lasting impression on you (on mobile quoting's a *****) that was me saying that you haven't done ****. Null slight lean scum at that point. Now WL has brought up good points that I agree with and you continue to do nothing USEFUL.

When did I say WL's initial readlist was faked? Not sure what this is called what you're doing but I find it scummy. I'll call it deflection. WL's reads can be as legit as they want, his REREAD WHEN HE QUOTED **** YOU DID is what I'm talking about. Lrn2read.

No thanks I'm good.

Insulting me instead of refuting me. Still don't know your reasoning for voting me.
 

#HBC | Laundry

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I already said why I held onto it. I wanted to draw scum Night Actions AND I was waiting to use a fake command on the already-claimed Rajam. I even asked to make sure Rajam had claimed when I was planning to execute it. This was all explained.
Like scum were going to target a role like that. Your best bet was actually hitting scum.

Gheb and JM had already expressed that they would find me scum if I was faking. By calling me out WL essentially swaps JM and Gheb from their suspicion on Sokr and puts it on me. Seeing as they are the only ones with a case on Sokr, this ALONE pretty much saves WL's ***. If you can't see how THAT helps scumWL than I don't know what to say to you.
Well gee that's a mighty convenient thing for you to bring up how about the fact that I just flat-out found you scummy in general and was calling your **** regardless of what Guus or Gheb said
 

#HBC | Gorf

toastin walrus since 4/20 maaaan
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WL said:
Well gee that's a mighty convenient thing for you to bring up how about the fact that I just flat-out found you scummy in general and was calling your **** regardless of what Guus or Gheb said
This. His first post in the game was a post calling you out as scum, which, iirc, at the time was not a popular opinion.
 

Kantrip

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Was I scummy in your initial reads list? I can't remember.

Whether or not what Guus and Gheb said affected your motives cannot be proven either way. Maybe it's JUST as convenient that you found me scummy and called my fake claim? Either way.
 

#HBC | Gorf

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Kantrip said:
When did I say WL's initial readlist was faked? Not sure what this is called what you're doing but I find it scummy. I'll call it deflection. WL's reads can be as legit as they want, his REREAD WHEN HE QUOTED **** YOU DID is what I'm talking about. Lrn2read.
You said that he's calling me out for shiz as a last minute deflection bit, but that was his opinion of me coming into the game.
 
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