W00t Were Low Tier Guys!

[imdavid]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=183918

Ladies and gentlemen, and M2K, Travis and I have compiled the most accurate tier list in the history of man. There are 7 tiers, and characters are ordered within tiers. (Note that when it gets down to like low tier and sh*t, that sh*t's like a tossup. is lucas sh*ttier than ganon? who the **** knows)

The H2YL Tier List
July 2008

God Tier
Metaknight

Top Tier
Snake
King Dedede
Falco

Upper Tier
Mr. Game&Watch
Marth
R.O.B.

High Tier
Kirby
Pit
Wario
Donkey Kong
Lucario
Ice Climbers
Wolf
Peach

Mid Tier
Olimar
Luigi
Diddy Kong
Zero Suit Samus
Zelda
Ike
Pikachu
Fox
Toon Link

Low Tier
Samus
Ness
Bowser
Sheik
Lucas
Mario
Ganondorf
Pokemon Trainer
Sonic

Bottom Tier
Link
Yoshi
Jigglypuff
Captain Falcon

Doesn't it make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside to know that at least we're higher up than Captain Falcon?

 

[SuSa]

Mains Jiggly as well.... HELL YAH, BOTTOM TIER and low tier!

 

[imdavid]

now we can rub it in their faces!

"HAHA, you got owned by LOW TIER"

 

[TigerWoods]

High, Upper, Top?? What imaginative names of tiers =D

I don't really believe this chart, but the lower shiek is the better...Its an excuse when you loose, and a trump card when you win =D

 

[SinkingHigher]

I have never lost to a metaknight.

Maybe it's just some coincidence.

He's not really that great. I don't see what the hype is.

Also, Snake has the worst recovery in the game, and if you know how to space yourself, DeDeDe can't do ****.

 

[Tristan_win]

What the ****, since when is Boswer better then Sheik?

Clearly they need to fight some better Sheiks if they think that.

By all means I think this chart is unaccurate and shouldn't be taken seriously by the sheik community.

For crying out loud sheik by herself is at least mid tier!

edit: WTF IKE is in mid tier and sheik isn't...bullll ****.

 

[KRDsonic]

lol, that's funny, samus is almost all the way up to middle tier. Looks like Xyro won't be able to john when I beat him with my sheik, since he always uses the excuse of "he lost because he used samus" xD.

 

[Cobra]

Tier lists are SOMEWHAT accurate, but then again, speak nothing to matchups. Sheik can beat a lot of the people who are "higher tier" then her, but that's not the issue...the issue is, who has the strongest movesets / does the best in tournaments.

...just becasue Sheik can stand up to Snake, doesn't change the fact that she has to change into Zelda to reliably kill him...and that's the difference. Snake doesn't really need to try...we do. In fact, Snake doesn't really need to try vs. a Lot of characters.

General theory denotes, when playing an aggressive Character : Shield Drop Grenades and bait into FTilts until they are over 100%, then kill with an UTilt.

...when playing defensive characters, projectile launch into Mortarslides, look for FTilt opportunities and such. Once above 100%, hit with a KO move, a.k.a. UTilt, BAIr, DAir, NAir, or catch them with C4 or a grenade...ALL OF THOSE ARE KILL MOVES.

When we want to kill with Sheik, what are our options? USmash maybe? Tipper BAir? Change to Zelda then pray you can actually land a hit?

That's why hes top tier...and why tiers exist. Not becasue he will always win, but in terms of moveset, survivability, and ease of play...he's better then most of the cast.

Bowser can much more reliably kill then Sheik can, and has better priorities with fortress and grabs...don't take it personally...it's just numbers.

(Plus, wtf does anyone besides us even know about Sheik? I still meet people who are surprised at the boost Smash and that she can do it...or that Vanish is a kill move...)

 

[Tristan_win]

Tier lists are SOMEWHAT accurate, but then again, speak nothing to matchups. Sheik can beat a lot of the people who are "higher tier" then her, but that's not the issue...the issue is, who has the strongest movesets / does the best in tournaments.

...just becasue Sheik can stand up to Snake, doesn't change the fact that she has to change into Zelda to reliably kill him...and that's the difference. Snake doesn't really need to try...we do. In fact, Snake doesn't really need to try vs. a Lot of characters.

General theory denotes, when playing an aggressive Character : Shield Drop Grenades and bait into FTilts until they are over 100%, then kill with an UTilt.

...when playing defensive characters, projectile launch into Mortarslides, look for FTilt opportunities and such. Once above 100%, hit with a KO move, a.k.a. UTilt, BAIr, DAir, NAir, or catch them with C4 or a grenade...ALL OF THOSE ARE KILL MOVES.

When we want to kill with Sheik, what are our options? USmash maybe? Tipper BAir? Change to Zelda then pray you can actually land a hit?

That's why hes top tier...and why tiers exist. Not becasue he will always win, but in terms of moveset, survivability, and ease of play...he's better then most of the cast.

Bowser can much more reliably kill then Sheik can, and has better priorities with fortress and grabs...don't take it personally...it's just numbers.

(Plus, wtf does anyone besides us even know about Sheik? I still meet people who are surprised at the boost Smash and that she can do it...or that Vanish is a kill move...)

I know!

Worst yet because of this early tier list that you know everyone going to treat as if it's the fricken bible until the real list comes out is that sheik is only going to be look down upon from here.

People are going to see her as a "low tier character" which is complete bull ****. Although the number might be against sheik in killing power her ability to rack up damage is better then anyone else and her gimping game is fantastic.

I mean seriously how many bad match up does a sheik/zelda combo have? ...2?

So we have a character who counter a good number of the cast including the top to high and has like two bad match ups.....That sounds pretty high to me with that alone.

God! If I thought sheik was low tier or sheik/zelda was only mid I would of stop using her a long time ago.

 

[ADHD]

Don't fret you guys this isn't true. This is half true, since when is peach high tier? Not right. Lol, and there is no way, luigi is higher than diddy kong. Luigi is the most underrated **** ever.

 

[popsofctown]

Sheik/Zelda loses to two i think, Meta Knight and Game & Watch.

I was at a brawl party (of competitive players, mind you) last night, and i used Sheik against a Snake. No one said anything until after two stocks, which was when the state-top-20 Kirby main said: "Sheik for Snake counter". I think some of the really really good players are more tuned in to her potential than other players are. M2K? I suspect he judges Sheik's abilities based on the Sheik vs. MK matchup. And that's not a very fair way, since, i agree, MK is god tier. (I think if he was out of the game, Brawl would be, by far, the most balance in its series.)

 

[Cobra]

Worst yet because of this early tier list that you know everyone going to treat as if it's the fricken bible until the real list comes out is that sheik is only going to be look down upon from here. People are going to see her as a "low tier character" which is complete bull ****.

Lol...I dunno why this is bad. I actually think it's a good thing. The more people think Sheik sucks, the less prepared they will be for her and the less they will know. How many people know how to properly DI after needles to capitalize on the lagg of the throw afterwords? Who knows how to escape tilt-lock? the lower tier they think she is, the less likely they will care to find out, becasue after all, "She's Low tier right? I'll beat her..."

Although the number might be against sheik in killing power her ability to rack up damage is better then anyone else and her gimping game is fantastic.

...I dunno about "better" then anyone else. Metaknight, Lugi, Diddy Kong...there are a lot of characters that excel in quick, fast, strings that rack up damage.

I mean seriously how many bad match up does a sheik/zelda combo have? ...2?So we have a character who counter a good number of the cast including the top to high and has like two bad match ups.....That sounds pretty high to me with that alone.

...I don't like this argument. Zelda being > Wario , does not make Sheik/Zelda better then Wario, unless you have a sick Zelda to accompany your Sheik. And even so, you aren't Zelda for most of the match if you consider yourself a Sheik/Zelda main...you change to get the kill, which means over 300% of damage needs to be done by the Sheik, and 5-6 moves need to hit with the Zelda.

You still need to rack up all of that damage, and believe me, agaisnt good Warios, who know his priorities and movement, it's not always that easy, and then after you change it's not always that simple to hit with the KO move.

God! If I thought sheik was low tier or sheik/zelda was only mid I would of stop using her a long time ago.

....Meh, I'd main her even if she was bottom of the barrel. She's a Ninja, therefore, I haev no choice.

Ninja.

 

[imdavid]

well if sheik is placed low tier, less people will want to main her, making less people use her in tourney, meaning we get less reps, meaning we don't move higher on the tier list

 

[Cobra]

well if sheik is placed low tier, less people will want to main her, making less people use her in tourney, meaning we get less reps, meaning we don't move higher on the tier list

...Bah, reps are overrated. You win reps by winning tournies. If you win enough tournies, Sheik will naturally begin to be seen as better then how people first perceived her. So eventually, good performance in itself will move her up the tier list, which will incite more people to play as well.

...there's a drawback to that though, I mean look at Chillin's list.

God Tier - MK

Top tier - Snake, DeDeDe, Flaco


, Snake + Falco...the same tier? Snake was seen as God Tier for the past 9 months. What happened? He got played to death and people finally figured out ways past his attacks, grab his cipher, and otherwise forceably gimp him. (Personally, I dont agree with Chillin's list, but ti proves a point, jsut as happened in Melee.)

...the more a character is played, the faster their game is developed, and their tricks are found...but also, the faster they are COUNTERED, when everyone learns their ins and outs, jsut so they know how to beat them.

I'd rather live in the Low Tier Shadows, where people consider your character worthless until you **** their face with them. Then you get the shock value and the utter confusion. (Don't beleive me?... Read Tristan's AiB profile comments from competitors :-p )

...personally, I like maining a Mid-low to Low tier character...even if it is INSANELY frustrating at times.

 

[homicidalrapist]

shiek is the ****, i don't care what anybody says. she's low because she doesn't have any moves that stand out like high tiers but, she has alot of good moves that can be strung together nicely and does insane damage.

 

[Lore]

Agreed, Cobra.

Low tier sheik= pwnage due to counters not being discovered soon.

 

[KirbyandSonicrock14]

What the ****, since when is Boswer better then Sheik?

Clearly they need to fight some better Sheiks if they think that.

By all means I think this chart is unaccurate and shouldn't be taken seriously by the sheik community.

For crying out loud sheik by herself is at least mid tier!

edit: WTF IKE is in mid tier and sheik isn't...bullll ****.

Hey, I know how you feel about Sonic being at the very bottom of the low tier spot? It suck monkey ballz!!! But shiek isn't OMG THAT CHARACTER SUCKS!!!!! Shiek is pretty decent, and I have seen some good shiek that are a beast with her to. And sonic 4 mid tier!!! There's a lot things about the blue man that a lot of so call 'pros' don't unnderstand like Sonic main does. But the lower the better. We won't have to worry about a lot noobs meesign with are character. So, tha tgood point for us. But stilll that list is bull****. And people actucally think that the right tier list. Yeah fuking right ppl.

edit
WTF ike mid tier!!! Tha tman is fuking low tier for god sake!!! Sometime I ask myself why tiers for most fighting games are mostly bull**** most of the times. The only "good" tier lists I have s

 

[JackieRabbit5]

i'm not concerned about tier lists (especially inaccurate ones like this)
so it doesn't bother me...it should just empower us to prove them wrong

 

[KirbyandSonicrock14]

i'm not concerned about tier lists (especially inaccurate ones like this)
so it doesn't bother me...it should just empower us to prove them wrong

Now that something I can agree on. The more peopel who think Sonic sucks or shiek and etc. The less noobs and more victroies for us.

 

[SinkingHigher]

I think some people are forgetting the chainlock.

Helloooo.

 

[KirbyandSonicrock14]

I think some people are forgetting the chainlock.

Helloooo.

Well, can you tell that to the pros of smash then man? Also, tell them about Sonic ASC combo for us Sonic players to.

 

[25%Cotton]

wow. i just realized almost all my most-used characters are generally girls (or considered by the majority to be so). i also realized that all of them are mid-tier are lower... which i actually kinda like .

mid: zero suit samus, zelda
low: samus, sheik
bottom: jiggs, link

(though now jiggs is just for kicks and no longer serious in the least)

 

[Drephen]

lol guys this is the H2YL Tier list.............which means chillin's opinion lol

wait for the official tier list before making comments

 

[ADHD]

lol guys this is the H2YL Tier list.............which means chillin's opinion lol

wait for the official tier list before making comments

Her downsmash is top tier, do you agree?

 

[imdavid]

... no offense but i do think sonic sucks XD

 

[Falconv1.0]

Sonic is garbage. ^_^

Sheik should at least be mid god ****it. >.<

I are angry.

 

[choknater]

brawl is balanced and almost any matchup can be figured out

sheik vs mk is very hard ill give it that

but sheik has ways to beat any char so i don't care

 

[KirbyandSonicrock14]

... no offense but i do think sonic sucks XD

Man no love for the blue man? You guys are whack. But I respect your skills as Shiek player.

RESPECT

 

[popsofctown]

Sheik has a way around every character in the game, i'd say, except Meta Knight. You have to play much, much, better than Meta Knight to win. Everyone else, Sheik can take them.

 

[S2]

Don't look too far into this, that tier list is the opinion of a couple of players.

Ask the top players in other regions, you might get some different responses. I'm not talking the low tier placement, I'm talking about the top quarter of the tier list. The whole "God/Top/Upper" characters are all highly debated, there's probably a lot of players who would disagree on how they got placed.


As far as our characters go....
Zelda should be a tier higher and so should Sheik. Honestly, besides getting tournament play, Zelda is easily a contender with the rest of the high tier characters. It makes basically no sense that Zelda is "mid tier" here and Peach is a whole tier higher.

As for Sheik, tilt locks, adaptable playstyle, chainlock, the ability to switch to Zelda for bad matchups... and the fact that you can swap to Zelda for kills (with all your moves fresh)... Sheiks higher than low tier.

I've been seeing a lot more sheik players lately.

 

[Falconv1.0]

brawl is balanced and almost any matchup can be figured out

I...uh...wow. Do you play Brawl seriously? DeDeDe's chaingrab in itself beats Ike into oblivion.

There are matchups listed as 80/20, that's not really what one should call balanced, me thinks.

 

[Nitrix]

If you can become good with both Sheik and Zelda then you will be awesome, because together they have almost no bad matchups.

 

[imdavid]

although we almost have no bad matchups, a good g&w gives us a good run for our money :D although the match up is 80/20, its still do-able. if a DK spaces well enough and gets past D3's grab game, it is possible to win, and it usually does. ike though? why the hell is higher than sheik... *grumble grumble*

 

[demodemo]

low tier FTW

dammit it pisses me off how my friend who plays snake says sheik is way easier to use because she is "fast"

he can't get it into his head that snake is near god tier

 

[SinkingHigher]

I don't think it's 80/20. Come on....

You have to find their weaknesses and expose the f*cking h*ll out of them.

DeDeDe: Wideload: Easy to lightning kick, very limited projectile use. No real range. Easily spiked recovery. Easy to f-tilt lock, Slow - easy to counter.

You probably need to go Zelda on his *** to get anywhere at all.

GW: No real range. Not the best recovery.

I again advise Zelda, but stay away from the little b*stard unless you know you can beat his 2D face in.

GW, yeah, he's difficult to get around, but come on... DeDeDe? You guys need to learn how to dodge better.

 

[-Mars-]

GW's camping game can be a pain in the a** sometimes and i think he's the character that sheik has the most problems with.

I found this list amusing to me.......the characters i use are:Sheik,Zelda,Lucas,Fox, and Sonic........... this is only going to make it that much sweeter when i'm destroying mk's and snakes online

I don't feel that sheik is low tier but i also don't personally care......us sheik mains were living easy in melee and i hope most of you will actually look forward to this challenge, and who knows the game is still only half a year old....there is so much we still have to discover.

 

[ADHD]

My only real fear is a good luigi, falco, ice climbers, and snake. The rest are just... fine I guess. Mk ain't so bad anymore.


I have dibs on saying luigi is sheik's worst matchup. That utilt lock on sheik is ridiculous especially because she has such bad horizontal DI and can't escape till the 8th or 9th and then it goes straight to an nair. Then he has the option of Fsmash or up b to kill you That Fsmash is pretty ridiculous too.

 

[popsofctown]

i've never played a luigi
No one was saying that we have 20/80 against Dedede. Ike has 20/80 against Dedede, matchup favors Dedede.

Ness does not have a way around Marth, it's too dang hard of a match. He's supposed to beat an all round better character without getting grabbed?

I really want to know where anyone gets their ideas of how good Sheik is. Because most people have not seen one play. And if you see one play you know she's good. Are there some horrible Sheik players running around, drumming up matches? Even when I I I I (i can't capitalize I for emphasis, lol) play, people say woah Sheik is good.

I suspect some people of fully forming an opinion about a character without seeing it in action. That's bad. I have not fully formed an opinion about Peach, Luigi, Mario, Yoshi, (poor unpopular Mushroom Kingdom), Jiggs, Ike, Sonic, or Marth. (yeah Marth's on there too. I live in an odd region don't I?) Because i've not played one. Many people need to follow my lead, and not put Sheik in low tier, because clearly they haven't witnessed a metagame Sheik player.
Sheik<Bowser makes my training buddy lol so hard. My Bowser is a toy to him, my Sheik is way tougher.

 

[-Mars-]

I don't even see why bowser is even being discussed, if you have proper spacing during the match this matchup a lot of times isn't even close.

 

[popsofctown]

who's talking about Bowser? Sheik totally destroys Bowser.