VOTE: Team Real or Team Fake on the Grinch Leak

[Sudz]

Was leaning towards team real but this post in the discussion thread and some of nantengex's counter arguments do have me more suspicious of this being fake.

Thanks for sharing that bit of discussion. I'm pretty easy, but as far as I'm concerned it's debunked.

 

[Rethuic]

To be honest, I genuinely think this is a real leak. There's a boatload of thing going for it, but it would be better to address what people say goes against it.
"It's blurry"
It's a pic from snapchat and people had to rotate and zoom in on the banner. Of course it's gonna be blurry.
"Too many fighters. Sakurai said we won't get as many."
Smash 4 had 21 newcomers, if you count the miis and DLC. If this leak is true, we have 16, a whopping 6 of which are echoes and 1 as a semi-clone. So only 9 uniques. Excluding DLC and echoes, Smash 4 had 14. Still 12 without Miis.
"Incineroar isn't th-"
No. He is not. Why does that matter still? (I say this because I have seen people say it's fake because no Incineroar)
"Too good to be true"
Eh, suit yourself. This has amazing quality for what it is, though.
"Battlefield is a little different"
A lot of game devs touch up things between the test demo and launch. That's sorta the purpose of the demo, to see what should be fixed up or changed, including aesthetics. E3 was the "test demo" that we had.

It's sort of odd seeing people attacking this leak and saying Vergeben is right, though. As many things as Verge has gotten right, he'll get stuff wrong. Pretty much every person who said things and got some right and continued to speak have eventually gotten some stuff wrong, including what they say they 100% know

 

[Sonsa]

Has anyone figured out what's going on with Pichu's face in the leak? If it's real, then it looks like somethings covering it, but not something in real life on top of the promotional stuff, some sort of...little logo with little words around it maybe? I don't know! Any ideas? Whatever it is, not great to cover anyone's face in promotional material...! Sloppy, but, what we have currently on left, then on right is from the leak, and then middle is leak "enhanced".

 

[NessAtc.]

Has anyone figured out what's going on with Pichu's face in the leak? If it's real, then it looks like somethings covering it, but not something in real life on top of the promotional stuff, some sort of...little logo with little words around it maybe? I don't know! Any ideas? Whatever it is, not great to cover anyone's face in promotional material...! Sloppy, but, what we have currently on left, then on right is from the leak, and then middle is leak "enhanced".
View attachment 171822

I'm pretty sure you just didn't do a great enhance job, or that was literally the best you could do. In your "enhanced" image, Pikachu's eyes and cheeks bleed into each other.

 

[Deleted member 269706]

Just not feeling it. It's playing into everyone's hype. Banjo, Shadow, Isaac and Geno specifically is getting the most vocal/nostalgic groups hyping it up and the lack of Steve and Incineroar keeps people from being unhappy, disappointed, or otherwise uneasy about following it.

As a general rule during the time before Smash4's release: Text/Images are false until proven true, videos are true until proven false.

 

[Sonsa]

I'm pretty sure you just didn't do a great enhance job, or that was literally the best you could do. In your "enhanced" image, Pikachu's eyes and cheeks bleed into each other.

It's not my enhanced image, it's from Source Gaming, but alright... Any clue on what's over Pichu's face?

 

[NessAtc.]

It's not my enhanced image, it's from Source Gaming, but alright... Any clue on what's over Pichu's face?

I assume it's some sort of fold on the wristband. There's nothing I can see that would innately cause it, and his face isn't blocked.

 

[Hydrualic Hydra]

I have a firm belief 'too good to be true' is nowhere near a strong enough reason to just call it fake. The absurdity of the whole situation pushes it into real for me.

 

[DNeon]

I have a firm belief 'too good to be true' is nowhere near a strong enough reason to just call it fake. The absurdity of the whole situation pushes it into real for me.

"Too good to be true! After the E3 reveal was Ridley, and the direct was capped with K. Rool we reached our 'good' quota for Smash Ultimate."

 

[TheTrueBrawler]

There's going to be a s*** load of disappointed fans when Sakurai comes out and deconfirms this leak in the next Nintendo direct. That Rayman leak was better than this one. At least the quality wasn't shoddy as hell. This one looks like someone slapped together a remade fighter poster and added whatever models they can find. Look at those Chorus Kids. Even when blurry, that looks nothing like the art style of the poster.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

This isn't a debunk, this is saying "It could have been faked, so it must be faked."

B I A S
Get that out of here GameXplain is a load of garbage and I guess so is most people who believe their bull

Maybe you two don't understand.

As long as the evidence that it could have been faked trumps the evidence that it's real, it can't be believable. If someone were to do the same thing with Bandana Waddle Dee, Shantae, and Hollow Knight, just as many people could believe him. The choices of seven popular characters contradicts both of Sakurai's previous statements and makes it seem like it's more credible since they're logical choices. Sixteen newcomers doesn't sound like "not too many," and Sakurai said reveals would slow dow, We have less than 2 months until the game releases, and I don't think seven reveals in that time counts as "slow."

While I agree it's possible the leak could be real, there's no way to tell since the quality of the photo is so bad, which leads me to take it with a grain of salt and not believe it. If this person was truly trying to leak real information,
A: They would have spent more time getting better photo quality instead of a sideways blur
B: They most likely would have had in-game screenshots to prove it further
C: They wouldn't have accidentally revealed their real name in the process

All of these eyebrow raising facts make it more likely that the leak is fake, since a lot of leakers do this. You can't disprove it, it's all he-said she-said. The leaker was clearly trying to cover multiple things up which leads me to believe it's another fake leak. Minus the obvious editing and cropping to the photo, there's enough facts here to say the leaker was faking it the whole time.

 

[DNeon]

While I agree it's possible the leak could be real, there's no way to tell since the quality of the photo is so bad, which leads me to take it with a grain of salt and not believe it. If this person was truly trying to leak real information,
A: They would have spent more time getting better photo quality instead of a sideways blur
B: They most likely would have had in-game screenshots to prove it further
C: They wouldn't have accidentally revealed their real name in the process

Firstly, given it was sent in a random Snapchat, there's absolutely no evidence that the person taking the picture was doing it to try to leak information. The person who posted it? Sure, but the picture taker could just be giving Nintendo the proverbial finger to their friends. Assuming intention is immediately a faulty argument.

Secondly, their job is a ****ing printing place, where do they get gameplay?????

Thirdly, the last point is an argument for team Real, if they were trying to make a fake then why would they give themselves legal repurcussions???

 

[ProfPeanut]

It's a leak that disappoints almost nobody, and it is precisely because it disappoints almost nobody that it's fake.

Should've just posted Ken and Incineroar so that people would believe it even after the game comes out, because it's an impressive effort.

 

[Arcadenik]

Team Real? Or Team Fake?

Doesn’t matter. I’m Team Rocket!

But I think it’s real.

 

[Sharpshot64plus]

The whole olimars shadow thing feels like a stretch to me and is almost reminiscent of the shulk is an edited little mac theory from the smash 4 roster leak.Not to mention this company the guy works for is confirmed to work with bandi namco.This wasnt stated by the leaker but was found out through someone seeing some small poorly covered information in the picture.This is comfermed more by the fact that this was a post about dropping a picture frame that was posted on snapchat this was in no means meant to be a leak.

 

[Rethuic]

It's a leak that disappoints almost nobody, and it is precisely because it disappoints almost nobody that it's fake.

Should've just posted Ken and Incineroar so that people would believe it even after the game comes out, because it's an impressive effort.

There are people who are disappointed by it and I've seen them. Also, since when does "Disappoints nobody" been a valid reason for Sakurai not to add a character. Also, Ken was in the leak. Incineroar doesn't matter since Pokemon's reps already make up more than a tenth of the roster, even with this leak. Not all of Vergeben's word is true or we would've gotten info at Minecon for the Minecraft representation of some kind.

 

[Blu99]

I'm hoping it's true literally just for Shadow and Banjo, but either way I'm not too bothered.

We will be getting a direct soon I feel, so until then I'm just going to wait, as I reckon something exciting will be revealed regardless, and this leak won't make or break any of our decisions to buy Smash

It's a lot of effort for someone to go through to fake this, but if it is a fake, hats off to whoever did it because they've had our pants down.

 

[aarchak]

It's a lot of effort for someone to go through to fake this, but if it is a fake, hats off to whoever did it because they've had our pants down.

Remember the Rayman leak back in Smash 4? People will go to great lengths to make a fake leak.

 

[Blu99]

Remember the Rayman leak back in Smash 4? People will go to great lengths to make a fake leak.

I won't lie to you, I completely forgot about that leak. However, that was a quick Photoshop job, this has too much info attached to it, considering the fact people have pinpointed the employee and his company to the very photo that was put on Snapchat.

I am a bit more apprehensive now but I still mostly believe this is true. It's one of the most promising one's we've seen anyway.

 

[Rethuic]

Remember the Rayman leak back in Smash 4? People will go to great lengths to make a fake leak.

If this is fake, this is that times 20. It'll either be like Rayman leak or ESRB leak.

 

[Arthur97]

Why are you booing him? He's right. These as the newcomers would suck.

They might to you, but that is a matter of opinion.

 

[Deleted member]

Team Memes.

 

[Oddball]

If this is fake, this is that times 20. It'll either be like Rayman leak or ESRB leak.

The leaker may have done more research to make it credible, but it seems like far less work went into the actually visual. The thing is so blurry it's hard even telling who some of the characters are without people pointing it out.

 

[Rethuic]

The leaker may have done more research to make it credible, but it seems like far less work went into the actually visual. The thing is so blurry it's hard even telling who some of the characters are without people pointing it out.

Keep in mind that the picture had to be zoomed in from a Snapchat pic and rotated. It's gonna be blurry. Pretty much everything for each character seems like it'll be a new render/position than fans have made, the most arguable being Shadow, but even then, his legs are in a different position than what people are comparing it to.

 

[Oddball]

Keep in mind that the picture had to be zoomed in from a Snapchat pic and rotated. It's gonna be blurry.

Sounds like a perfect excuse to me. I know if I was going to take a questionable photo, I'd make sure I used the worst camera and settings avalible.

Pretty much everything for each character seems like it'll be a new render/position than fans have made, the most arguable being Shadow, but even then, his legs are in a different position than what people are comparing it to.

So the pictures are a little bit different than what somebody has made. Thast over looks the obvious that somebody else could have made different ones. Given the quality of the photo it wouldn't have even required as much work as these things normally do.

 

[Rethuic]

Sounds like a perfect excuse to me. I know if I was going to take a questionable photo, I'd make sure I used the worst camera and settings avalible.


So the pictures are a little bit different than what somebody has made. Thast over looks the obvious that somebody else could have made different ones. Given the quality of the photo it wouldn't have even required as much work as these things normally do.

I understand people will make new renders and such. In fact, that's what made the Rayman leak so big. It was one of the first times somebody did it so well. But in this case, you need at least 7 characters and it would be a crap ton of effort to do all of it, with moving the characters as well to accomodate for the space the new guys take.

 

[Uffe]

Keep in mind that the picture had to be zoomed in from a Snapchat pic and rotated. It's gonna be blurry. Pretty much everything for each character seems like it'll be a new render/position than fans have made, the most arguable being Shadow, but even then, his legs are in a different position than what people are comparing it to.

But why Snapchat? Couldn't he just take a photo of it like all smartphones can these days?

 

[Rethuic]

But why Snapchat? Couldn't he just take a photo of it like all smartphones can these days?

My guess is that he was talking to a friend of his, like some co-worker. Some people have been saying that the picture of the banner thing was an accident.

 

[Crystanium]

Yeah, how bizarre characters people actually wanted got in the game that started with Ridley, Belmont and Rool; I was really hoping they would just finish with Ken, Incineroar and maybe one more character that no one wanted.

Ridley has been a long requested character. I'm not sure about Simon Belmont, but even before SSB4, I thought adding Simon would be cool. I never expected it, though, given Konami's crappy direction. And King K. Rool? That just seems like a given. These other characters don't fit the bill. They've been characters people have been requesting since the announcement of SSBU, or more accurately, these are characters people have become vocal about since the announcement of SSBU. Isaac is the only character I'm aware of who people requested since SSBB. These other characters, not so much.

No one ever wanted Chorus Kids; that's a scrapped Smash 4 character. The only reason that ever got on people's minds is cause Sakurai forced it on people.

You assert Sakurai forced Chorus Kids onto people, but lack any evidence. This has got to be the most absurd claim, though, since people . . . Wait. Just seeing this thread, I can see how simple-minded people can be.

So who's interesting to you? These final seven hit a bit of everything; do you need more sword fighters or something?

The only character worth bothering with would be Mach Rider, and that's only because I had the game for the NES when I was a child. I don't like sword characters. I don't care about Shadow because I don't care about the Sonic series. I don't see the appeal with Geno and am opposed to additional Mario characters. I've never played Banjo-Kazooie, so I don't have any emotional investment in such character. I played Street Fighter, but preferred Ryu over Ken.

 

[Deleted member]

Team Memes.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

They might to you, but that is a matter of opinion.

The last part was ironic. The first part was to reference a meme.

 

[Uffe]

My guess is that he was talking to a friend of his, like some co-worker. Some people have been saying that the picture of the banner thing was an accident.

I still think it's fake, but at the same time I'm hoping it isn't, because I'd actually like to use Mach Rider. Maybe Nintendo would even consider making a new game of it after all these years.

 

[Dan]

Ridley has been a long requested character. I'm not sure about Simon Belmont, but even before SSB4, I thought adding Simon would be cool. I never expected it, though, given Konami's crappy direction. And King K. Rool? That just seems like a given. These other characters don't fit the bill. They've been characters people have been requesting since the announcement of SSBU, or more accurately, these are characters people have become vocal about since the announcement of SSBU. Isaac is the only character I'm aware of who people requested since SSBB. These other characters, not so much.

You assert Sakurai forced Chorus Kids onto people, but lack any evidence. This has got to be the most absurd claim, though, since people . . . Wait. Just seeing this thread, I can see how simple-minded people can be.

The only character worth bothering with would be Mach Rider, and that's only because I had the game for the NES when I was a child. I don't like sword characters. I don't care about Shadow because I don't care about the Sonic series. I don't see the appeal with Geno and am opposed to additional Mario characters. I've never played Banjo-Kazooie, so I don't have any emotional investment in such character. I played Street Fighter, but preferred Ryu over Ken.

Geno was right there alongside Isaac (and probably more popular) since Brawl; this is obscenely common knowledge:

Sakurai: Yes. He's incredibly popular. Even though he's an old character, we keep getting loads of votes and requests for us to put him in the game. Even though he still isn't in as a playable fighter, I made sure he'd be in as a Mii costume so his fans would at least feel that they got something.

K. Rool and Ridley were in the same playing field as Geno and Isaac, but the former were just more popular.

Sakurai: Geno was actually a character I wanted to include as a fighter. He has a gun for an arm, and just seems like he'd fit absolutely perfectly into Smash.

I was hoping I'd be able to put him in as far back as Super Smash Bros. Brawl, but unfortunately that never ended up materializing.

This is my theory on why he wasn't in Brawl: they didn't have the rights, and didn't obtain the rights until after Smash Wii U was released; once they reached DLC, they had to release a character that would be a bonafide seller (Cloud), so now with a full dev cycle, I'd like to think Geno is a shoe-in. He comes from an RPG and has obscene moveset potential beyond just having a gun for an arm; like they included a character who doesn't even fight (Isabelle), but Geno is a character with so many moves.

Banjo got popular with the announcement of the ballot (top 10 [Sakurai wanted to put him in Melee but the character was obtained by Microsoft]), Shadow was one of the most wanted Echo's for this game, no one really cared about Ken as far as I'm concerned (and still don't [we've just accepted him a la Chorus Kids]) and though I love him, Mach Rider was never that popular.

Who in God's name was asking for Chorus Kids before Gematsu? The same people that were begging for Wii Fit Trainer Brawl era?

And I'm saying what characters in general do you want who aren't part of the leak? Who would be your final seven?

 

[muznut]

This leak is just too convenient. It's just really hard in my opinion to fake the Isaac pose that he's doing unless you have knowledge on Golden Sun, which I believe that this would be a very Sakurai thing to do.

 

[MERPIS]

Maybe you two don't understand.

As long as the evidence that it could have been faked trumps the evidence that it's real, it can't be believable. If someone were to do the same thing with Bandana Waddle Dee, Shantae, and Hollow Knight, just as many people could believe him. The choices of seven popular characters contradicts both of Sakurai's previous statements and makes it seem like it's more credible since they're logical choices. Sixteen newcomers doesn't sound like "not too many," and Sakurai said reveals would slow dow, We have less than 2 months until the game releases, and I don't think seven reveals in that time counts as "slow."

While I agree it's possible the leak could be real, there's no way to tell since the quality of the photo is so bad, which leads me to take it with a grain of salt and not believe it. If this person was truly trying to leak real information,
A: They would have spent more time getting better photo quality instead of a sideways blur
B: They most likely would have had in-game screenshots to prove it further
C: They wouldn't have accidentally revealed their real name in the process

All of these eyebrow raising facts make it more likely that the leak is fake, since a lot of leakers do this. You can't disprove it, it's all he-said she-said. The leaker was clearly trying to cover multiple things up which leads me to believe it's another fake leak. Minus the obvious editing and cropping to the photo, there's enough facts here to say the leaker was faking it the whole time.

tldr bias oof

 

[aarchak]

tldr bias oof

You know, you could just actually engage with his points instead of going into ad hominem.

Anyways, the leak looks debunked:
https://smashboards.com/threads/sma...spoilers-leaks.434391/page-6119#post-22590713

 

[Blackwolf666]

I do have doubts, but going with team real. Why?

1. I want it to be real
2. Too much believable evidence vs inconsistencies
3. I can handle "disappointment" if it turns out to be fake.
4. If it's fake and I see another character I wanted then it's still a win.

 

[Izanagi97]

You know, you could just actually engage with his points instead of going into ad hominem.

Anyways, the leak looks debunked:
https://smashboards.com/threads/sma...spoilers-leaks.434391/page-6119#post-22590713

That was already countered by pointing out the leak came from ACP-PLV so the only part wrong is the printing company.

 

[AIM0001]

I feel there is some truth to this in terms of some of the characters that will be announced. However, I’m having a hard time believing we are getting this many new characters. 7 reveals in one Direct? I mean that would be quite the blow out. But it’s never happend and I’m not sure it will. This is a crazy time. We’re so close to launch and we’ll know soon enough what real and what’s fiction.

 

[Deoxys911]

My feelings about this leak: