Vier's video thread: gg. I quit

[St. Viers]

*mini-bump*
added the new vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ph7eoHhl8FI
to the the first post.

I've improved a lot since then...can't wait til September when I can get my hands on capture card stuffs again.

 

[Bullet Bill]

I struggle with uair shffles as well. I think the fact that flips over makes it difficult to judge the l cancel.

 

[St. Viers]

*bump*

St.Viers (Doc) vs BDawgPhd (Marth)

on FD.

friendly, and I mess up alot. Things I noticed:

@0:18--epic fail on my part...

I down smash too much still, especially here.

I rolled too much...some of it was just laziness, part of it was me stalling while rubbing my nose <_<

edge-guarding was failure. I had gotten used to sheik (I had gone through beating people with sheik, then doc, then fox), and this was my first doc match.

I didn't really jab/u-air much. Believe me I jab...just never in recorded matches for some reason...:/


^^reads above post^^
actually this vid sucks, but advice would be useful. I'll try and get BDawg to get better matches up. I'll be looking through the ones we recorded tomorrow.

things I liked. My DI was in general better than before...especially that f0smash that got me up to 165%...

more confident in my tech skills, even if I messed them up in this match.

 

[Cinder]

Yeah, I only saw vid 2...loved it:bigthumbu
I could learn a thing or two from you

 

[St. Viers]

^_^
*embarressed*

thanks, but I still have way to much to incorporate before people should even think of learning from me. Unless you want to learn how to D-smash. I can do that.

also, a general question--I've grabbed marth, and up-tilted. How do I start up-airs. Whenever I try, I don't knock him in a way that lets me continue. Do I have to short hop and drift back some, or go for an u-tilt that knocks him forward. Because if so, that doesn't seem to work for me. And the marth's I play can jump out of my throw before I can get a d-air off...I need to be faster with that.

 

[Yomi-no-Kuni]

nice video
just watched it, and i noticed, you didnt use alot of uairs, compared to when i play marth...

but i liked your nair work, i suck at it....

to your uair question...
i think you have to hit him with the tip of your foot, so he´ll fly as far up as possible, and to your front, then you can either do a FJ double uair (that works wonders against my opponents... might be wrong DI thought..) or try shffld uair....

but, i dont know anything about doc, so w8 till someone else says something, just meant to write somthing and bump this thread

yomi

 

[St. Viers]

^^thanks...but pretty much anything I type dies, so valient effort nonetheless <_<

anywho, just got back from MM5, and yeah. I did better against the marths in my pool with doc than with sheik. Doc is TOO GOOD. caping upBs for the win...<_<


yeah so peoples...could you critique my vid...:/? or does it just suck too bad?

 

[Bullet Bill]

well I'd like to give you some advice but last time you flamed it cos you are arrogant. Try not to let your ego get in the way of getting you better cos it will slow you down

 

[St. Viers]

...
...
you have never answered how my respectful and thoughtful disagreement=a flame.

you also know that I did thank you for the advice I thought was useful, and I thought that maybe after the conversation via PM you would realize I'm not so much an *** as you seem to think I am.

ALL OF THAT ASIDE, why the hell are you taking a cheap shot at me months after this whole thing started and was blown out of proportion. If you have advice for me, tell me. Just don't expect me to blindly follow your advice if I question it. And if the advice is u-air more, don't bother as I know it...I just can't seem to u-air peopel from throws and chain from it, and trying to hit marth with an u-air as an approach is really hard for me.

 

[SPAWN]

St. V. You going to Vivalasmashtaclysm Nov 10-11? http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=117692

Gonna be ****ing amazing. Bob$ is going! Maybe we can get some friendlies in too!

 

[St. Viers]

lol that would rock. I'll see if I can I really want to go! If I am able, I'll actually be training my *** off (I didn't fail at MM5, and I hadn't improved except for paying more attention--"mindgames". If I step up my comboing, and learn to use u-air... <_<)

 

[SPAWN]

Starting to use uair is hard. <_> Also, you don't really want to approach with it from my experiences. People will usually just cc it and you'll be like, . It's all pretty much from grabs or so I can think of.

 

[St. Viers]

yeah, but i can't seem to start anything from a grab with it....yet. I needs to experiment, obviously<_<

 

[ye25]

Approaching with a uair IS stupid xD.

 

[Yomi-no-Kuni]

not if you hit his shield :D
( cause thats somehow the only move i manage to l-cancel when playing doc O.o)

 

[Dogysamich]

St. V. You going to Vivalasmashtaclysm Nov 10-11? http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=117692

Gonna be ****ing amazing. Bob$ is going! Maybe we can get some friendlies in too!

i have to see what's going on around that time; but i actually might be going, too. >.>

___

as for the u.air approach.

It works aight at higher percents, but yeah, it's not that great in the beginning, imo.

I dunno. I dont have great test subjects in my area, i always find out "what really works and what doesnt" when it's too late. :/

 

[St. Viers]

thanks for the clarification, Dogy!

anywho couple vids of me from MM5. Only one is a real match, the rest are friendlies (but all are with doc), and I don't do too badly. comments and crits welcome.]/b] Some more should be uploaded sometime soon--though not quite sure against who.

I edited the links into the TOP of the first post. I realized that the most recent ones should be higher on the list...

 

[Dogysamich]

i watched 1 minute of the first match and i only have 1 thing to say.

STOP CCING VS PEACH OMG >.>

and on that note i have to go to class.

 

[Yomi-no-Kuni]

ffs, i wanna go to that tourney too :D
the only good doc here where i live isnt coming to the next tournament

O.o

jealousy wins

 

[Dogysamich]

aight.

For some comments.

vs marth.

1) stop rolling behind him so much. It's hard to tell you not to when you dont get punished, but it's actually a pretty bad to try to roll behind him when he's not doing anything. Normally he'd just turn around and grab you (like i tried a few times, but he messed up his turnaround)

... ah 2:10, that's what im talkin about. You keep trying to roll behind marth, and he's not moving. And you got hit like, 2 or 3 times. Ya didnt get punished bad for it, but it could have been much much worse.

2) you flinch alot when you recovery. As in, you do something before marth plans on doing anything. Although the intent is good; it's really bad to flinch like that because you're actually setting yourself up to get punished (because you are in a set animation for a set amount of time).

I'm not saying dont EVER do that, because it throws peoples' timing off sometimes. But you looked like you were getting scared of a tipper; when what you are doing is actually setting yourself up to get tipped.


3) [insert dogy's obligitary rant of marth's range]
I dunno how many times he popped you up and you tried to d.air to him while he was neutral (not in an animation). And then you got up.tilted. And then one time you even got a mini ken combo for your troubles. >.>

___

Sure this might sound like alot of bad, but there is some good to this.

In general (more specifically in the beginning) you did a very good job staying out of marth's range. Ya did a good job using some pills and keeping him away from him. As the match went on however, you started to get a little scared (with all of the airdodging for no reason) and then a little headstrong (trying to roll behind him too much, and trying to approach his u.tilt). Work that out of your system and you'll see even more improvement.


Overall, you did ok edgeguarding too. There were a few times where he was floating near the edge and you coulda threw out a f.tilt. And then there were a few times when he airdodged and you were free to do something but didnt. The big thing i would say about edge guarding is hop out some more and b.air. (But always make sure not to go too low; or be ready to walltech the stage).

**Last comment
... Nelly is hot garbage. One of the worst commercial rappers ever.

******************************************

vs luigi.

Luigi's a matchup i dont konw much about; you outta ask kasha about this (since he says luigis are easy >.>) Another person who would be good to ask is greenmario. (I dunno about $mac, i dunno if he sees good Luigis down in FL).

The only thing i can really tell from watching this video (Which skips more than the national jumprope team, mind you. >.>) is that you shouldnt try to get near luigi in the air.

That means, when you hit him in the air, let him go at lower percents. And if he jumps at you in the air, just move away (or slide in an u.tilt/u.smash if you can) Luigi is beast in the air, and you get comboed BAD if you get caught by his sex.

-watches some-

Oh actually, i do have something else i can say. Ya know you can b.air luigi's misfire right? So a good thing to do is edgehog, and if he tries to misfire you off the ledge, ledgehop b.air him. But becareful if he's falling towards you, he might try to f.air you off the ledge.

*Sidenote 1*
Out of these videos, this is the 3rd time you did ledgehop f.air. And for the 3rd time you missed. (Im thinkin of the other ledgeohp discussion thread)

*sidenote 2*
-laughs sarcastically-
Ya know you have A.D.D. when you play on Yoshi's story? Fly Guys come by, and you go u.air them rather htan edgeguard luigi.

The cloud comes by and you stop and try to land on it, even though luigi is giving you the ledge?

I'm not trying to be harsh when i say this, but i litterally chuckled a little bit. Cause that cloud is a *********. >.>
********************************

Vs Peach.

(im gunna do this one as im watching)

ah yes, and now we get to see why rolling behind people is so bad. (hopefully).

On your first stock, ya know it mighta been better to stay backwards and try to b.air peach. It might not have worked, but it (imo) would have been better than trying to cape.

Hey, good job edgehogging peach on her first stock. It was pretty simple; but i would have been dumb enough to ledgehop b.air. --pat on the back-- Good job, buddy!

Ah yes, CCing against peach. >.>

... ya know. I dunno how that 2nd stock worked out. You landed one cape, and then went cape crazy. Ate some CCd d.smashes, and then landed a f.smash, and it looked like peach was trying to run away. Eh, i dunno. lets see where this goes.

ooooohhhh way to keep your composure after that and... AW WTF F.TILT THAT. She was floating down after eatting your pill, and you coulda f.tilted here away nooooooooooo.

But again, way to keep your composure and get the finish. Keep that stock.

--Peach is standing still--
Lets think about something. You're on final d. You're playing peach. Peach is not approaching you, nor is she pulling turnips. Why not throw some pills and make her move a bit rather than run into her defense?

*sidenote*
rofl emmy's trying peach bomber. --2 tries later-- AND HITS IT LOL that proved nothing. >.>

**
So here we are on the last stock, and there are the pills. Good stuff. Eatting some turnips. D.smashed off the stage and you're back, good good.

Grab and.... wtf? Peach has no di.. . . .

--shrug-- Ah well, her loss is your gain. Good job.

2 things i have to say at the end of this (Well, one to say and one to ask).

What i have to say is, you tend to do alot of your aerials and land in front of your opponent, which is why you get grabbed sometimes. You do a good job of spotdodging after you land infront, and it saved you a few times, but you'd be better off if you worked to land behind them.

Now what i have to ask is, do you know what float canceling is? And the reason why i ask that is because you got jacked by it. ALOT. >.>

********************

vs Ness.

Now this is what i wanted to see. I need to play my ness more often myself (YYG > up+b cancels 4 lyfe. )

*im gunna do this one again while watching*

Ok, soo here we are. You've been hit with PKT once.. and there, ya got hit with it again. I wonder if you're getting trained for PKT2 trixies. >.>

Ya got ness off the stage and... why is he pkt2ing back? Punish that! (It has terrible landing lag)

Aight, now you're getting edgeguarded and... PK FLASH WATCHOUT! ... aight ya good... cept ya rolled into the bat. PK FLASH AGAIN LOO.. ah ya good.

Now you're on the otherside, and.......... WATCH THE PKT... and.... wait. Punish ness! (Bad recovery frames for PKT fizzling out)

Ok, you punished the next one. Good stuff.

You're doing a good job not falling for these DjCs (as wide as they are >.>) and now you're running and... how the hell did that b.air sweetspot you? That was some BS.

You're back.. ness is off the stage and..... ok way to keep him off (i woulda used f.smash, but d.smash works fine) he's coming back and.... where'd you go? (Rolled up too early)

Eh, ya took %3, but that's fine.

*sidenote*
Aw, you coulda did the ultimate ness edgeguard there. But it wasnt worth it

Now you're gettin beat down with the bat (rolling into it) and OMG LOOK OUT PKFLASH..... --sighs--. Way to get around that.

Now you're up in there air and .... you d.air. Ness b.air's.... and you're falling......... you d.air, ness b.airs. Sweetspot.
You're falling back falling back and OMG PKFLASH..... EULKSDNLKJAFIO WEH IOVWTVIOWE NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. lol (You would have bee perfectly fine if you'da landed on the ledge)

Running around... running around... and pk fire! >.> And you're out, good job.

Ness is off the stage, coming back.. and ledgehop b.air, ye... WAIT ZOMGS TAILWHIPPED!!?! :/ THAT WAS BOGUS. (Other than up+bing earlier, there was nothing you really coulda did about that)

and... stuff happens, blah blah blah, the end.

____

So what i have to say about this one is

1) punish more (and punish better). There were alot of times when you had a free hit, and you would take u.air, b.air, and n.air rather than f.smash, d.smash, grab, or u.air -> (some combo). You're generally doing a good job PUNISHING mistakes, but i think you should do MORE with the punishing.

2) when you're coming back to the stage, ya dont always have to land in the same spot. You tend to do that, and you get punished for it.

..... that's all i have. >.>

 

[St. Viers]

wow thanks for the advice/running commentary.

re: v. Marth.

--So pretty much I should wait for them to act, then make my decision...

--yeah, I don't use f-tilt near enough. I'll add that to my list of things to work on.

--Also, I usually do b-air people, but I guess I was being too cautious (tournie nervousness ftj (for the john? <_<)

re: v Luigi:

--yeah, not used to good luigis.

--also, i need to practice what I preach--I know that I shouldn't lh f-airs, but I do anyways...<_<

re: v peach.

--yeah, no johns, I messed up bad--thanks for pointing out the reasons why.

--lol. I know what it is, but I never get to play people who use it...and I can use peach, but I'm not used to how it works.

--and regarding emmy's mistakes--she admits she sucks with peach-which is another reason this match was horrible

vs. Ness.
--yeah...I need to use opportunities. I never f-smash, but watching Velocity later made me think I should use it more.

--yeah, me going for platforms began as a mindgame, and worked, but now I do it too much.

Thanks for the advice. It gives me alot to work on!!

 

[Dogysamich]

it's not specifically that you have to wait for them to do something. That puts you in a defensive stance and doesnt allow you to pressure them.

It's just that you dont want to ALWAYS (or often) airdodge over them or roll over them.

The problem is that it's a pattern, and people (usually) pick up on patterns. There's absolutely nothing you can do after after you airdodge, and it's not like you're dodging his attack.

All he had to do was wait for you to airdodge (which you were going to probably continue doing until you got punished), and then f.smash.

____

as for emmy "sucking" with peach.

Ya know, i've seen emmy's name alot of places, and never figured out who she mained (really is a chick, eh?). So i travel down to the zelda boards and look at some videos.

It think it's hilarious how aggressive her zelda is, and how defensive her peach is. XD

 

[Bullet Bill]

...
...
you have never answered how my respectful and thoughtful disagreement=a flame.

you also know that I did thank you for the advice I thought was useful, and I thought that maybe after the conversation via PM you would realize I'm not so much an *** as you seem to think I am.

ALL OF THAT ASIDE, why the hell are you taking a cheap shot at me months after this whole thing started and was blown out of proportion. If you have advice for me, tell me. Just don't expect me to blindly follow your advice if I question it. And if the advice is u-air more, don't bother as I know it...I just can't seem to u-air peopel from throws and chain from it, and trying to hit marth with an u-air as an approach is really hard for me.

I have advice for you but I why should I tell it to you when you'll 'respectfully and thoughtfully disagree'. Look mate, call it what you want but you flamed my advice. If you can't handle constructive criticism then don't ask for it. Blown out of proportion? Well sorry if I started an arguement but do you expect me to just take that? Err no. Why are you refusing to accept that you were being a prick when you posted that? I know how to play Doc as well as anybody but now I here some egotistical player telling me HOW TO GIVE ADVICE on his own 'My vids advice please' thread.

Oh and btw to help with the uair's: try hitting up on the C stick as soon as you can after the short hop (if you don't already do this). It will help with the timing of the L cancel. And don't say I'm wrong cos I know I'm right. As I can uair shffl very well now.

______________________________________________________________


IMO approaching with uair is fine. If it hits you can even start a combo with it. It can be punished but no more thanh the nair approach

 

[St. Viers]

Lol if someone asked for advice, and I said "use down-tilt. Spam it." Its obvious that even if I'm giving advice I'm not giving good advice. Should the person I tell this too not question me?

If you post something that helps, I won't disagree with it. I won't know whether I can use it or not unless you post it. Again, you avoid answering how what I said was a flame. I wasn't being a prick. I just didn't agree with your advice, (and you were saying things based on like "punish f-smashes" when in the vid it is obvious I'm trying to WD out of shield when I shield an F-smash. How is that good advice?)

Anyways. if you have advice, give it I'll try not to offend you when responding this time

 

[Bullet Bill]

here goes nothing.

Vs Marth BDawgphD on FD

very good in general and a lot better than the last vids I say of you vs marth. Uair's of course is good. Don't forget if you get a grab you should be dthrowing to uairs or dthrow to utilt to uairs. In fact I think you need to grab a lot more. When you see an opportunity you tend to dsmash when you could have grabbed. I also think you should nair to jabs more and not just to dsmash as you have options: you can jab to dsmash or jab to grab. You need to wavedash out of your sheild more instead of rolling like dodgy sandwich said. Your pillspam vs the marth was good. It works well esp on FD.

 

[St. Viers]

Thanks! Spamming is what I've worked most on...<_<

Yeah, so I need to jab more. Or sometime I saw other docs do in vids is just n-air to dash away. But yeah, I need to stop n-air to downsmash...I'll work on that.

:/ I don't know when I got into this rolling habit. I guess I'll have to rebreak that one.

 

[Dogysamich]

hYou need to wavedash out of your sheild more instead of rolling like dodgy sandwich said.

**** my name just got jacked up beyond repair. >.>

 

[SPAWN]

Dogy, remember when you introduced me to everyone. Bwahaha, now it'll be the opposite. Go to Vivalasmashtaclysm!!!!

Link= in previous post

 

[azianraven]

OT: LOL at Dogy. "dodgy sandwich" lol

ANYWAYS, your doc is good viers. you have decent tactics against each individual character overall

However, i thought that your doc wasnt as fluid as it could be. It was, for lack of a better word, choppy i thought like at times you could have followed through with another attack. For example i saw a perfect opening for a F-Smash in your 7th vid on the last stock when marth was 72-79%. At least i think it was an opening.

Also moving fast is essential to docs game. You move fast, but i definitely think that you can move faster. your shffls seemed kinda of slow to me.

Overall decent doc, kinda reminds me of mine.

 

[Dogysamich]

im tryin spawn, im tryin. >.>

and viers. you never answered my question that was embedded in that wall of text.

And this is an honest question, not trying to insult you in any way.

Do you know what float cancelling is? Cause you got jacked by it vs peach. >.>

 

[St. Viers]

^

--lol. I know what it is, but I never get to play people who use it...and I can use peach, but I'm not used to how it works.

that was in reference to your question about float cancelling. I use it when I'm peach, but not well, and I don't get to play peaches that use it. So it takes me awhile to remember/ think of what to do.

 

[Dogysamich]

oh.

Well for reference, for anybody who anybody else who might read this.

Float cancelling is when peach floats, does an aerial, and lands during the aerial animation.

This causes float cancelling, which takes place of l-canceling. L canceling normally causes 7 frames of landing lag, where as float cancelling causes the normal landing lag, 4.

Meaning, peach gets real gay when it comes to aerials. >.>

 

[Bullet Bill]

**** my name just got jacked up beyond repair. >.>

but it's such a cool name

 

[St. Viers]

*kinda bump*

I have access to a capture card, so when I'm done fixing the things I've noticed wrong with my game, I'll be posting more vids. You can look here to see I think 2 recent matches of my doc. Feel free to comment, but I already have a huge list of problems.

Something I will upload is me beating two ganons with team attack off...

I actually kinda combo, which surprises me. I don't do well, but I win.

 

[Gea]

The hell Viers. YOU HAVE UPTILT. USE! That alone would have probably let you win against Falcon. :<

 

[St. Viers]

[whine]but uptilt always sends them at some angle that is impossible to do anything with...[/ whine] jk

When would it have been useful? after throws, or to interrupt his attacks?

>_>learning to use more than like 3 moves is on my list of things to work on <_<

 

[Kashakunaki]

Dude!

UP TILT IS GOD! I always thought I was the only one who abused it, but I guess it is more popular than I thought. Up tilt is pimp.

I'll load some videos of me vs. Falcon and you will see when to use up tilt... mainly use mindgamez, though.

 

[Gea]

Because he wasn't dairing high enough to avoid utilt. It would have eaten through it and started a COMBOOOOOO

 

[St. Viers]

that would be cool---thanks Kash, Gea.

But yeah--this is the list of important things I need to work on:

1. I have to stop myself from doing laggy things when I don't need to (WDing instead of running, throwing out attacks and hoping I hit)

2. Spend less time in my shield, and use other means of avoiding attack (DD, jab,CC if applicable)

3. Not be content with the level of tech skill I've sunk into. (I can't even SHFFL really--its more like a SHed aerial now)

4. Use the right moves at the right times (not throwing out n-airs all the time)

5. React from throws quicker (this, +1,3,&4 should let me actually combo <_<)

6. React instead of act sometimes (when someone is one the ledge, when I've 'lost sente*' so to speak)

7. Pressure people (more so with my fox, but I'm too content to do something, and then retreat, when I don't need to)

*in the boardgame go, there is a concept called sente. If you go through a series of moves, and then are forced to use a move that doesn't force the opponent to respond (or if you make a move that you think will force him to react, but turns out to not actually do so), he is able to now choose where to play, and you have lost sente. It's kinda equivilent to "pressure," but I think pressure isn't quite the same


If anyone has more advice, please add it to my list. I don't mean character specific advice, but rather overarching flaws in how I play the game.

 

[Gea]

I actually spend tons of time in my sheild these days, you just gotta know when to, and also lightshield.