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Work In Progress Video Arkive & Critique Thread ~Updating in progress 45 chars done~

ZSaberLink

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 19, 2006
Messages
393
Rate my scubby Link so I know what to work on please.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NH1jDlmeOc8
The obvious one would be don't throw boomerangs when you're trying to recover and then die due to lack of height? Honestly you mostly were doing fine, except I felt like you used USmash randomly sometimes and went for those DAir kills offstage too often. There was at least one instance you could've accidentally saved him although the Ganondorf was clearly already dead. I didn't see you use FTilt I guess in terms of tools. Maybe post a match in which you were having trouble to give a better idea of how you play under pressure.
 

Aciduous

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 7, 2015
Messages
3
My biggest note would be to use your projectiles more. Even though Rosa can deflect them, she can't deflect them all at once. Place some more bombs around the stage and fire off your boomerang a bit more, especially when she's recovering with her up-b since it has no hitbox. I also only saw, I think, one f-tilt. It's one of our fastest moves so use it in place of up sometime (a few times you rolled behind her and could have hit).

I didn't know how to space Rosalina. Critiques are welcome.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l58nOGdo3_8

Here's one vs Marth (not for critiques)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tF5aLM4Scz8
 

ZSaberLink

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 19, 2006
Messages
393
I knew I can always count on you.
Cat's right though. You had a lot of YOLO attacks lol. I watched your match against the Fox, and he pretty much played a defensive game against you. You threw out of a lot of attacks/hitboxes, and he generally patiently shielded you and then moved in with something quick (the whole beginning was just dash attacks, which I think you caught onto with your FTilts).

Not sure if you already noticed, but he didn't ONCE grab you (or even try from what I could tell?). Thus you could have sat in your shield a lot more and perhaps baited attacks. He was generally throwing fast moves (mostly dash attack/Utilt on the ground and his Nair/Fair) and caught you when you messed up something (USmash after shielding your Ftilt, etc.). I don't think Fox has very good grab combos anymore anyways? Also, your jab was pretty effective against him and went unpunished (as long you rolled away if he was shielding your 2nd jab). Just my thoughts.
 
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DJTHED

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 25, 2015
Messages
102
Location
Oregon
NNID
djthed
3DS FC
1805-3499-5905
Switch FC
SW-1721-8556-4217
DJTHED :4link: vs CR Ninja Asashin :rosalina:
November 21, 2015. Swiss R3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KKqUi70Roc

It's been a while since I've seen myself on stream, so I might as well post this. Conveniently on this day I attended they were having framerate problems with the stream again, so that's nice...
 

MintyGuy700

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 15, 2014
Messages
198
Location
Minnesota
NNID
MintyGuy700
3DS FC
0044-4078-1187
I finally got to play on stream again today, and I didn't get stream nerves this time! :D Expect to see a match soon.

UMN December Monthly

MintyGuy700 :4link: Vs. P105 | DOLF :4pacman:/:4pit:

http://youtu.be/BXDTValo964

Hit me.
 
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Dumbfire

Sex? Yes, I'm familiar with the theory
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Messages
2,397
Location
The Netherlands
NNID
AncientSunlight
UMN December Monthly

MintyGuy700 :4link: Vs. P105 | DOLF :4pacman:/:4pit:

http://youtu.be/BXDTValo964

Hit me.
When you ledgetrap all you do is spam Ftilt... poorly. It beats roll, ledgehop and attack from the distance you do it from, sometimes normal get-up but depends on timing (and is hard to do). Basically you gave him a free ledge get-up every time. There's way more options. Add trumping to your game at least, then try some other options (baiting out something, rolling into the ledge, &c., you know the drill). Meanwhile you are getting ledgetrapped hard yourself, since you were never trumped either you could have comfortably taken your time on the ledge, but instead you usually rushed into a normal get-up, which he habitually punished with grabs.

He kept getting your landings on BF, work on your landings. Rarely double jump back in, consider retreating to the ledge more, Nair isn't a free landing. On platforms too, be smarter: roll on them sometimes, find space, jump away. You're open to hardcore juggling (don't drop shield too fast either, you dropped shield while on a platform against Pits usmash and nair).

Pit's difficult because of great dash grab and dash attack, you really need to watch out with bombpulls -- check those at 7:36, 8:06, 8:30, 12:18, 15:!8 &c. He can also dash attack under Zair, such as at 11:33. His entire game in neutral was waiting for an opening then dash attacking or dash grabbing, and because of troubles mentioned before he got a lot out of every one he got.

You shieldgrab his SH aerials too much, and this is a rule with you. Many SH aerials are not shieldgrabbable by Link, especially since the patch. People can spotdodge or even roll (as he did) and punish you hard for your shieldgrab. You missed more grabs than you landed -- big issue.

The biggest thing I see though, central to your game, is that you spam Ftilt to the point it becomes comical, it's really overrated in that capacity. What your game relies on is for the opponent to be dumb enough to run into it. This is basically a gimmick and can trick people when they expect you to shield or something, but it's not something to center your game around. When you're doing your zoning game at for instance 9:57 what he did was wait for an opening, but he could honestly have just walked away and shot arrows and it would have broken your game. I noticed this too when I played you, I got hit by Ftilts a few times because I was being very aggressive but it was more of a minor nuisance, if anybody takes their time and calls them out you're done. Stop relying on it so hard, because

1. It is sluggish, so when it is so major a part of your game people will find openings, like the Pit did.
2. There are characters that will force you to play more of their game, and I predict your game falls apart when that will happen (Sheik needles, even Pit arrows, fireballs &c.)
3. It is still punishable on some distance, and on powershield, and for some characters (like Fox).

If you're going to do it, don't make it a pattern what you do afterwards. You'll find you sometimes SH bomb pull after you hit it on shield, which is very punishable (see the unsafe bomb pull timestamps from before).

Things like 15:32 where it works should not happen against players who understand Link. Now I will give you this isn't often, and that sometimes it can catch off-guard, but it is not something to rely on.

I advise you to go into some matches (this can be even FG, anywhere) and try not to use Ftilt at all. You'll probably discover, then, that it is a habit too -- that you will automatically mash it after certain things.

The same thing counts for Nair. I personally think SH Nair is overrated too because the hitbox is only Link's body, meaning any disjoint will beat it out. It's very stationary and not very dynamic (try rising full hop Nair too perhaps once in a while, you can double jump after and it will hit people standing or jumping in as well). On landing it is easily powershielded too. See how Pit can freely run in and dash attack when you SH Nair at 7:11.

You get punished way too much for throwing out Fsmashes. You keep zoning and then at some point grow bored and decide to throw out a random fsmash. Don't do it; he shielded all of them.

You jab way too little. Jab more. Best close range tool by far (yes, better than damn Ftilt).
 

Catana

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 6, 2014
Messages
432
NNID
Catanaa
Can I get a critique vs Wario?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVBwh_em4SU
I didn't know what to do.
You tried to approach him a lot and didnt play enough of a zoning game here. Wario doesnt really have much range nor very great approach options that cause a lot of trouble for us so we can camp him pretty well, which Link can be very good at on BF if you make correct use of the platforms. All he really has is his bike but he has to make a read or predict something in order for that to work.
I also saw you going for a lot of unsafe moves like Fsmashes, dash attacks, grabs etc., now going for this type of commitment isnt that big of a deal against Wario as it is against other chars as his range and punish game arent that devastating (unless he has waft of course), but I could tell it was all pretty much out of habit especially since you kept doing it anyway when he had it. He actually dropped a lot of oppertunities to land the waft on you. Also use more jabs and tilts.
This MU is actually really boring if you want to play it correctly because it makes us camp really hard, predict a bike here and there while converting off our projectiles and backing off again.

http://www.twitch.tv/showdownsmash/v/30514666

match I had on stream today. couldn't get myself situated in game 3. all critique welcomed.
Twitch is pretty laggy for me so Im not really gonna bother going into depth on this one but I could tell that this Falco caught up on your bomb pulls from a distance quite a bit so watch out for that. Also roll a little less and dont commit to risky things like smashes too much, you have to be sure they'll hit, otherwise use tilts.
 
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CaliforniaSoul

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 26, 2015
Messages
23
Twitch is pretty laggy for me so Im not really gonna bother going into depth on this one but I could tell that this Falco caught up on your bomb pulls from a distance quite a bit so watch out for that. Also roll a little less and dont commit to risky things like smashes too much, you have to be sure they'll hit, otherwise use tilts.
I'll look out for that, thanks.
 

kxiong92

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
207
Location
St. Paul, Minnesota
NNID
kxiong
Good set with Link (me) vs Cloud (Void)

http://www.twitch.tv...ming/v/31194349

Start at 1:31:45
I like your ground game. I thought you grabbed a little too much though. It really showed in the match vs that Pikachu. I was smiling at the your match against Void's Cloud because there were times where you picked the worst options and they ended up working. LOL. I'm really liking your Link though.

Also. does the mid/back hit of utilt combo into usmash? I know that it can combos into uair.
 
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Knife8193

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 1, 2012
Messages
465
Location
Houston, TX
NNID
omar8193
Yeah utilt combos into uair pretty well. Sometime they can airdodge out of the uair followup, but you can read this and usmash.
 

Catana

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 6, 2014
Messages
432
NNID
Catanaa
Good set with Link (me) vs Cloud (Void)

http://www.twitch.tv...ming/v/31194349

Start at 1:31:45
You rely way too much on jab cancels and idk why the cloud just let that happen all the time. You seem to mash a lot of **** all the time which and can lead to a very habit-based style of play which is also extremely risky and easy to expose especially as link and will get punished by actual good players, so you should watch out for that.
Also where are the bombs?
 

Dumbfire

Sex? Yes, I'm familiar with the theory
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AncientSunlight
VoiD just kept shielding after jab2 but if they have that habit yes sure abuse the hell out of it LMAO
 

Knife8193

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 1, 2012
Messages
465
Location
Houston, TX
NNID
omar8193
You rely way too much on jab cancels and idk why the cloud just let that happen all the time. You seem to mash a lot of **** all the time which and can lead to a very habit-based style of play which is also extremely risky and easy to expose especially as link and will get punished by actual good players, so you should watch out for that.
Also where are the bombs?
Yeah, my projectile game sucks but you're right I could have definitely pulled more bombs. I keep jab cancelling because it works on him though. What do you mean by mash? Do you have any specific examples? I'm guessing you're referring to the dairs and the up Bs, but I don't want to assume. Thanks
 

Zane the pure

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
519
Location
The Hyperbolic "Do Work" chamber
Here's the match where I got bopped by Sethlon that I promised. I don't really need a critique though, I know exactly what went wrong. (I may have stayed up an extra hour or two vigorously reviewing the matches.)

Zanethepure (Link) FX| Sethlon (Roy)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUuBcwzeEtI

On the upside though, Hyrule Hero cleaned up hard. Hope he doesn't mind me posting them.

Hyrule Hero (Link) vs OneManJam (Pikachu)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuYvdJ9ieSM

Hyrule Hero (Link) vs CosmicCosmos (Pikachu)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJjjbuPAiak

Hyrule Hero (Link) vs FX| Sethlon (Roy)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQgdPKD7tos

Hyrule Hero (Link) vs P2P w/ Gibus (Greninja)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTV_WmiHsA8

Hyrule Hero (Link) vs ATX| HaKii (Lucas)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftheDBNwJHU
 

GhettoNinja

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 22, 2014
Messages
548
Location
Iowa
NNID
DaGhettoNinja
3DS FC
2724-1629-7971
Here's the match where I got bopped by Sethlon that I promised. I don't really need a critique though, I know exactly what went wrong. (I may have stayed up an extra hour or two vigorously reviewing the matches.)

Zanethepure (Link) FX| Sethlon (Roy)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUuBcwzeEtI

On the upside though, Hyrule Hero cleaned up hard. Hope he doesn't mind me posting them.

Hyrule Hero (Link) vs OneManJam (Pikachu)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuYvdJ9ieSM

Hyrule Hero (Link) vs CosmicCosmos (Pikachu)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJjjbuPAiak

Hyrule Hero (Link) vs FX| Sethlon (Roy)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQgdPKD7tos

Hyrule Hero (Link) vs P2P w/ Gibus (Greninja)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTV_WmiHsA8

Hyrule Hero (Link) vs ATX| HaKii (Lucas)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftheDBNwJHU
"Ya link can't do much out of bombs," except you know...combo into every aerial and some tilts and smash attacks smh. Good stuff btw! Hyrule was definitely putting in work and same to you sir .
 

Kelby Trace

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 1, 2014
Messages
4
Location
Clay City, Kentucky
NNID
kelby4740
I'm super new at this and I'd like to know the best way to upload videos to this thread. After I save a video to my wii u what do I do to get it here, I apologize for being so incompetent.
 

GhettoNinja

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 22, 2014
Messages
548
Location
Iowa
NNID
DaGhettoNinja
3DS FC
2724-1629-7971
I'm super new at this and I'd like to know the best way to upload videos to this thread. After I save a video to my wii u what do I do to get it here, I apologize for being so incompetent.
First off having a set is ideal but not required. As for uploading them, just upload them using the built in uploader if possible then posting the link here. If you can't do that there's a upload room where you can probably get your matches uploaded via them.
 

Ffamran

The Smooth Devil Mod
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
14,629
Good set with Link (me) vs Cloud (Void)

http://www.twitch.tv...ming/v/31194349

Start at 1:31:45
Kila? Your matches are up on YouTube which I find easier to review since it's just select videos you can watch over and over and over and over and over and... vs. VoiD's Cloud: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LuwRZ8LiwY.

And your set vs. scourgemom's Pikachu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPWpyzPa4rw.

Yeah, my projectile game sucks but you're right I could have definitely pulled more bombs. I keep jab cancelling because it works on him though. What do you mean by mash? Do you have any specific examples? I'm guessing you're referring to the dairs and the up Bs, but I don't want to assume. Thanks
Outside of Cloud being a new character, with jab mixups, Cloud doesn't have anything to interrupt them move-wise. Nair is his fastest move, but it hits from behind first and Uair and Dair could work if he could leave hit stun fast enough to input frame 11 moves which by that time, you should have done something to him. He could try for Climhazzard, a frame 7 move, but if he misses... and Cross Slash, frame 10, only confirms into rest of the hits, so if he misses... With full meter, Cloud has access to invincible Limit Breaks, so be careful in the future with jab mixups. This comes from a Falco main where jab mixups will not work on mash-happy players; I and other Falco players died to hard punishes like Jigglypuff's Rest, Luigi's Nair, Super Jump Punch, and even grab to kills, and Ryu's Shoryuken all because Falco's jab is apparently some abomination that needed to be gutted from Brawl. Anyway, Cloud being a fast faller could let him fast fall down to the ground? Not sure, but if he can, especially with full meter increasing his fall speed and gravity, Cloud could fast fall down, shield, and punish your jab mixup. Just some general tips.
 
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Knife8193

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 1, 2012
Messages
465
Location
Houston, TX
NNID
omar8193
Kila? Your matches are up on YouTube which I find easier to review since it's just select videos you can watch over and over and over and over and over and... vs. VoiD's Cloud: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LuwRZ8LiwY.

And your set vs. scourgemom's Pikachu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPWpyzPa4rw.


Outside of Cloud being a new character, with jab mixups, Cloud doesn't have anything to interrupt them move-wise. Nair is his fastest move, but it hits from behind first and Uair and Dair could work if he could leave hit stun fast enough to input frame 11 moves which by that time, you should have done something to him. He could try for Climhazzard, a frame 7 move, but if he misses... and Cross Slash, frame 10, only confirms into rest of the hits, so if he misses... With full meter, Cloud has access to invincible Limit Breaks, so be careful in the future with jab mixups. This comes from a Falco main where jab mixups will not work on mash-happy players; I and other Falco players died to hard punishes like Jigglypuff's Rest, Luigi's Nair, Super Jump Punch, and even grab to kills, and Ryu's Shoryuken all because Falco's jab is apparently some abomination that needed to be gutted from Brawl. Anyway, Cloud being a fast faller could let him fast fall down to the ground? Not sure, but if he can, especially with full meter increasing his fall speed and gravity, Cloud could fast fall down, shield, and punish your jab mixup. Just some general tips.
I haven't labbed it on Cloud, but shouldn't he be able to get out by DIing up and DJ? I also tend to get jab jab grab very easily on Little Mac, Diddy, and Pikachu for some reason. I probably need to look into this more, thanks for bringing it up.
 

Ffamran

The Smooth Devil Mod
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
14,629
I haven't labbed it on Cloud, but shouldn't he be able to get out by DIing up and DJ? I also tend to get jab jab grab very easily on Little Mac, Diddy, and Pikachu for some reason. I probably need to look into this more, thanks for bringing it up.
I dunno. Some characters have jabs that you can DI down at low percents to shield like Fox's if I recall correctly... That or the Pits's rapid jab.... Eh. For some, you can DI up and out to get out. And then there's Falco's where it'll naturally push you out for each part of his jab, so it'll actually help you... -__-
 

ZSaberLink

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 19, 2006
Messages
393
Kila? Your matches are up on YouTube which I find easier to review since it's just select videos you can watch over and over and over and over and over and... vs. VoiD's Cloud: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LuwRZ8LiwY.

And your set vs. scourgemom's Pikachu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPWpyzPa4rw.


Outside of Cloud being a new character, with jab mixups, Cloud doesn't have anything to interrupt them move-wise. Nair is his fastest move, but it hits from behind first and Uair and Dair could work if he could leave hit stun fast enough to input frame 11 moves which by that time, you should have done something to him. He could try for Climhazzard, a frame 7 move, but if he misses... and Cross Slash, frame 10, only confirms into rest of the hits, so if he misses... With full meter, Cloud has access to invincible Limit Breaks, so be careful in the future with jab mixups. This comes from a Falco main where jab mixups will not work on mash-happy players; I and other Falco players died to hard punishes like Jigglypuff's Rest, Luigi's Nair, Super Jump Punch, and even grab to kills, and Ryu's Shoryuken all because Falco's jab is apparently some abomination that needed to be gutted from Brawl. Anyway, Cloud being a fast faller could let him fast fall down to the ground? Not sure, but if he can, especially with full meter increasing his fall speed and gravity, Cloud could fast fall down, shield, and punish your jab mixup. Just some general tips.
Aren't you missing Cloud's Uair? Isn't that his aerial combo tool actually? It looks to be frame 7, although I don't know the hit boxes.
 

DarkDeity15

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 16, 2013
Messages
1,662
Location
Edison, New Jersey
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DarkDeityLink015
I lost both of these for pretty bs reasons but whatever. I wasn't able to send Link7 all of my replays. What do you guys think?
 
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