@VuraLoL was kind of enough to do a review of a Bo5 I had versus the PR Sonic in my region. It went the distance to game 5. Further review will be appreciated.
Here is Vura's review:
u won lel i thought u loose haha. What i have to say is, that u played the MU quite well and abused our strengths in the MU such as Soft dropping bombs to deny approaches and fair spacing. They way u used your jab was also really good. A sonic knowing the MU could've punished u for a few of em but that's nitpicky. What lost u game 3 and 4 is pretty much your deviation from your playstyle in game 1 and 2. You started approaching in a few cases with Nair on shield and twice with fair. U also went for grabs and dashgrabs (!) Which u didn't in game 1 and 2. Also the situation in which u tried to grab was also not worth it even if u hit it, since sonic can up b out of it. U also chased sonic in a lot occasions so that u always had to flee afterwards in which sonic got spincharge combos. That's the way u lost game 3 afaik. Game 3 was also the Game in which u played stupidly the first stock (agressive etc.)
And the second stock u got ur **** together. But since u got impatient (?) Or played aggro the first stock u still had a few aggri hick ups and approached a few times which cost u the game. Game 4 was bad play by u. It was everything that got u punished in 1 game. Look st game 1 and 4 and u will understand. Game 5 was Nontheless your "Nim get ur **** right!" Moment because u won that on hard the first stock. Brilliant play right there. Game 5 was more similair to game 1 and 2 when it came down to playing the MU right. In game 5s 2nd stock u again had the mistakds mentioned above that brought u to 80% or so. The Sonic didn't adapt that well tbh since he went for a stronger "bait and punish " that didn't work game 5 and 2. Sonic punishes agressive play really hard so u got ur ass handed there. To close up: game 1 and 2 were solid play, game 3 1st stock was u being stupid & 2nd stock u adapting back to your playstyle but since u approached and tried to flee u got
caught by spindash that killed u, Game 4 was ****** mode, game 5 1st stock Bookwork and nice pressure into 2nd stock. Your impatience led to you getting
Combed so that u only got around 40% extra credit. Then again solid play but 2 offensive options got u punished hard. I think u understand the MU quite well but don't get frustrated when u get %. We get combed hard and offensive options are brutally punished by sonics. We pretty much have to play like that to win. FeelsBadMan.
Games + Analysis:
- Jab (a mix of double jab or triple jab), SH FF Fair, SH Fair and pivot F-tilt are my primary tools in neutral with some help from soft-throw bombs and Boomerangs
-- Goal with any one of these moves landing is to simply knock Sonic back and draw a bomb
- I wasn't responding correctly to Homing Attacks
-- Correct response is often to go for spotdodge -> Up-smash but that carries a fair amount of risk
-- Simply shielding is not always the best as Dabuz puts it, if it hits your shield consider them safe
-- Sonic has from frame 22 - 34 to release a Homing Attack so to simply wait 10 frames and spotdodge then punish should be the best option
- At low-mid percentages you want to constantly DI behind Sonic after he up-throws you as DI away leads into a guaranteed Fair
-- With DI behind you can airdodge the Bair for awhile but then it becomes a 50/50 where Sonic waits for airdodge then Bairs or Nairs and you can then jump out
- I'm landing a lot with AC Dair and if distance or space is lacking, FF Nair
-- I think this is the best option but I was considering Bomb Pull -> FF Zair to cover landing along with FF Fair
- My loss of first stock was because I over extended with Jab
-- Sonic's F-smash is longer than it appears
- Down-throw -> Up-air should work 90% over as if Sonic jumps it'll hit and if he airdodges Up-air should last past the airdodge however in this case it looks like airdodge cancelled just barely above the ground
-- Probably better at 90% damage on Sonic with tier 1 rage to wait for a potential airdodge as it's safer
--- I do play with this Sonic quite a bit so he knows not to simply jump all the time, it may be better to establish someone always jumps or airdodges before deciding whether to Up-air or airdodge bait
- Double Fair to Grab had slight hesitation so I ended up missing, need to be quicker on that to grab Sonic before he can jump or tech the ground
- 0:40 I misread the situation here, I thought he was going to go down with FF Bair but instead it was just a normal falling Bair
-- The early Up-B was meant to catch that
-- Tether would've been the correct option or simply waiting longer before recovering
-- As Vura said this was kind of stupid of me, I had a chance to retreat to center stage but decided to fight on the platform
- Reverse Up-B was a consideration as this happened but I decided to play it safe
-- Playing it safe didn't work out lol
-1:58 Down-throw to Up-smash is not guaranteed but I was betting on him to airdodge
- I don't throw many unsafe Boomerangs so this was a poor read on a retreating option from him
- 2:40 This falling Nair was unnecessarily dangerous
-- The idea here was to cut off his angle to prevent a Bair but because I did that I took a F-smash instead
-- He could grab me on landing or Up-smash my landing but I've established a heavy reliance on AC Dair to land so it's unlikely
- I lost the game over a misinput reverse Up-B and a dash to skid instead of dash to shield
- Slight hesitation on the bomb connection leads to the grab missing but it should work at 0% as you have 22 frames of hit stun on your opponent
- Misinput DA, was meant to be a Fair
- Now at 0:18 this is kind of tricky, I thought the bomb connected and was dashing for the Fair combo but his spin dash went through the bomb
-- Bomb needs one frame after contact with a hitbox to register so that on the next it can explode
-- Bomb also can pass through once it has been hit
-- This doesn't happen too often but it caught me off guard and I got comboed for it
- The grab on landing as a poor guess, uncharacteristic of me
- At 93% after Sonic's Up-air connects the instant Up-B to Up-air will kill if you do not airdodge when he's upon you
-- Rage doesn't seem to matter for Sonic in this case
-- I did DI in so it was easy for him to track me down like this and finish me once I did jump
-- Solution is likely to DI away and then jump as he shouldn't be able to touch you at that point
- As Vura mentioned it's not a good idea to drift onto Sonic's shield with Nair, it's easy for him to punish
- I played the remainder of this set way too frantic
-- If it comes down to time, it comes down to time, I shouldn't force a thing
- At 1:49 with Sonic at tier 2 rage and myself being at 68% it looks like I can just jump out of the Bair if I DI away
- Don't bother punishing F-smash in general, as it has a FAF of only 48 (28 frames after the hit-box)
-- I suppose if you PS or grab just as it lands you can punish it but in this case it wasn't worth it going for the grab (no follow-ups at this percentage and rage)
Closing:
As Vura said playing aggressively is definitely not the way to approach this MU. Sonic is simply too good up close and you won't hope to match him if you're the one pushing into him. Scizor has also mentioned this MU is impossible once we have to approach which also why I prefer to go Rosa in this MU. Frankly losing the first stock might as well be the same as losing the game if the Sonic is patient.
The key to the MU is really getting Sonic to run into your stuff otherwise it gets really ugly.
Also
@Natmax to see how to play Sonic as my boy gets bopped by his local one.
(Link) vs S1 (Fox)
Nimious
for Alan vs GM Ike Vanguard (Nimious' internet acting up so I am posting it.)
