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Work In Progress Video Arkive & Critique Thread ~Updating in progress 45 chars done~

Blessed Spartan

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 18, 2015
Messages
10
Sup mandem and galdem,
on Friday 3rd of June i had the pleasure of being able to participate in counter pick thanks to DumbFire
i came up against S1 who was using fox. Now i know im pretty bad so ive actually picked up Ike so i can practice my fundamentals but ill still be using Link in bracket. I want to learn more so any help and feedback you can give me would be sick!

cheers
Counter Pick 14
03/06/2016
Blessed :4link:(Link) vs S1 (Fox)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpJE2GwbQrg
 

ZSaberLink

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 19, 2006
Messages
393

Dumbfire

Sex? Yes, I'm familiar with the theory
Joined
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Messages
2,397
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The Netherlands
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AncientSunlight
The update is in progress, and I've done the first 5 characters. Obviously for underused characters like Bowser Jr. and Charizard no high quality, modern footage is going to be available. Again these are presumably all the notable tournament matches worth watching for general skill on display or match-up specific utility since the start of the year.

:4bowser:Bowser
DG Sova Unknown :4link: vs. Shinbowser:4bowser:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YilDY4tpJCk
:4bowserjr:Bowser Jr.
:4falcon:Captain Falcon
:4charizard:Charizard
:4diddy:Diddy Kong
Hyrule Hero :4link: vs. LightningCam:4diddy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smoB_dDn7CI
 
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Dumbfire

Sex? Yes, I'm familiar with the theory
Joined
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Messages
2,397
Location
The Netherlands
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AncientSunlight
The next 5 are done. Notice how we have footage against one of the best Falcons, a near top contender Diddy, the best DK, a top Duck Hunt, a near top contender Fox &c. In other words, at least Link is making a splash and seen contending with very skilled players, instead of a local phenomenon never seen outside of pools round 1.

:4dk:Donkey Kong
Hyrule Hero :4link: vs. IQHQ | DKWill :4dk:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E72bke51KZ4
Sova Unknown :4link:vs. Average Joe :4dk:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xp3yLfDxnoc
:4drmario:Dr. Mario
:4duckhunt:Duck Hunt Duo
:4falco:Falco
:4fox:Fox
 

Dumbfire

Sex? Yes, I'm familiar with the theory
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Messages
2,397
Location
The Netherlands
NNID
AncientSunlight
Sup mandem and galdem,
on Friday 3rd of June i had the pleasure of being able to participate in counter pick thanks to DumbFire
i came up against S1 who was using fox. Now i know im pretty bad so ive actually picked up Ike so i can practice my fundamentals but ill still be using Link in bracket. I want to learn more so any help and feedback you can give me would be sick!

cheers
Counter Pick 14
03/06/2016
Blessed :4link:(Link) vs S1 (Fox)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpJE2GwbQrg
Hey I completely forgot but I recorded this once when I was horny, maybe it's actually helfpul
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z8A0hpbvC0
 

Nimious

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 6, 2014
Messages
148
Location
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
NNID
Nimious
I'll be reviewing matches pretty frequently for people on the Link Discord and then posting them here so people can reference them if they need help in the MU.

This one is a tourney match between Sandbag vs a PR Mega Man in his region

-Start the match by drawing a bomb, this is often the key to punishing Mega Man for lemon spam
-In particular you want him to waste his Metal Blade on your shield before Bombsliding through the lemons and comboing him
-If you establish the Mega Man jumps a lot during lemon spam try and get under him then Up-tilt or bait out an air dodge/grab him on landing
-You can up-smash him out of down-throw so it’s good damage
-If he does a lot of SH then FF lemon shots don’t bother with this and instead stick with trying to punish him with bombs
-There was no need to start with Hylian shield walking, this is the option you pick once you establish that you don’t have room to pull bombs and that he doesn’t like to jump a lot
-Do not dash and shield toward him, if you have room use it to get a bomb
-Remember you actually out range him as at a distance your projectiles can travel faster
-1:30 you should have retreated to the platform and once you got ledge you should have jumped to the platform
-Leaf shield is not a consistent hitbox
-Stop doing ASA past the ledge, there is no need to
-You’ve conditioned him to shield and so just Fair his shield instead
-You can down-throw Up-smash him till 60%
-Nair is a safe choice though and it doesn’t matter too much
-5:30 Careful for this setup, if the metal blade lands the Mega Man gets an up-tilt right after that can kill you very early
-Don’t roll in, rolling in is what Mega Man players look for so they can grab, up-tilt or up-smash you
-It doesn’t work unless they jump as the lemons would hit you anyways
-6:00 If someone is on the platform it is always better to Fair them
-24% of shield damage means you’re likely to poke through on the next Fair attempt or even break their shield
-If their shield is already weak you would poke through
-Not sure why you’d try to grab Bairs
-Even if you did get a grab you’d get an up-tilt max since you can’t up-smash with a moving platform
-Rolling back doesn’t help since you’d have to once again get all that ground again, if you’re moving back it has to be with purpose
-You should have noticed by now that rolling in doesn’t work in neutral as he’d hit you anyways
-Good job noticing your opponent was playing shaky and airdodging into the ground
 

link7

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
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1,081
Location
Steilacoom, Washington
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Kidlink77
3DS FC
2234-7140-8163
I'll be reviewing matches pretty frequently for people on the Link Discord and then posting them here so people can reference them if they need help in the MU.

This one is a tourney match between Sandbag vs a PR Mega Man in his region

-Start the match by drawing a bomb, this is often the key to punishing Mega Man for lemon spam
-In particular you want him to waste his Metal Blade on your shield before Bombsliding through the lemons and comboing him
-If you establish the Mega Man jumps a lot during lemon spam try and get under him then Up-tilt or bait out an air dodge/grab him on landing
-You can up-smash him out of down-throw so it’s good damage
-If he does a lot of SH then FF lemon shots don’t bother with this and instead stick with trying to punish him with bombs
-There was no need to start with Hylian shield walking, this is the option you pick once you establish that you don’t have room to pull bombs and that he doesn’t like to jump a lot
-Do not dash and shield toward him, if you have room use it to get a bomb
-Remember you actually out range him as at a distance your projectiles can travel faster
-1:30 you should have retreated to the platform and once you got ledge you should have jumped to the platform
-Leaf shield is not a consistent hitbox
-Stop doing ASA past the ledge, there is no need to
-You’ve conditioned him to shield and so just Fair his shield instead
-You can down-throw Up-smash him till 60%
-Nair is a safe choice though and it doesn’t matter too much
-5:30 Careful for this setup, if the metal blade lands the Mega Man gets an up-tilt right after that can kill you very early
-Don’t roll in, rolling in is what Mega Man players look for so they can grab, up-tilt or up-smash you
-It doesn’t work unless they jump as the lemons would hit you anyways
-6:00 If someone is on the platform it is always better to Fair them
-24% of shield damage means you’re likely to poke through on the next Fair attempt or even break their shield
-If their shield is already weak you would poke through
-Not sure why you’d try to grab Bairs
-Even if you did get a grab you’d get an up-tilt max since you can’t up-smash with a moving platform
-Rolling back doesn’t help since you’d have to once again get all that ground again, if you’re moving back it has to be with purpose
-You should have noticed by now that rolling in doesn’t work in neutral as he’d hit you anyways
-Good job noticing your opponent was playing shaky and airdodging into the ground
You should talk about the set he had against Kwaz.
 

Stryker95

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 11, 2015
Messages
252
Location
Texas
From Nimious Nimious for Alan vs GM Ike Vanguard (Nimious' internet acting up so I am posting it.)

- Down-throw -> Up-tilt, there's not much point to throwing him off stage since it's hard for you to stop an early Up-B
- If someone misses a grab on you because you spot dodged, typically you can land a free SA if you buffer it
- Nair less, these suck vs disjointed characters, especially ones who have disjoints that can match your Nair speed
- This guy has no idea how to approach but you should notice his tendency to jump and intercept with Fairs or try and grab him or bomb his landings
- Bomb throw down to Fair if you're landing behind him, Nair doesn't hit well in these instances
- Don't airdodge all the time, rely on AC Dair more since Ike's Up-air is hard for him to time well
- Grab less, you don't need to commit so hard with your stock on the line especially when he isn't even dash shielding to approach
- While recovering if you have the time after drawing bomb throw a boomerang, do NOT throw the original bomb as pulling a new one at that point is too late for anything and everything if you get hit
- You really wasted your percentage lead by trying to fight down the entire time, just grab ledge and reset - If he was a better player he would have disengaged earlier and ended up in a much better position
- Should space better vs Ike, retreating Zairs or RAR Zairs are good to cut him down if he's approaching but since this guy was pretty bad it wasn't necessary
- Retreating Fairs are also good if he's shown he likes to jump
- You also need to look into comboing him more with projectiles to aerials
 
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Nimious

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 6, 2014
Messages
148
Location
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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Nimious
@VuraLoL was kind of enough to do a review of a Bo5 I had versus the PR Sonic in my region. It went the distance to game 5. Further review will be appreciated.

Here is Vura's review:
u won lel i thought u loose haha. What i have to say is, that u played the MU quite well and abused our strengths in the MU such as Soft dropping bombs to deny approaches and fair spacing. They way u used your jab was also really good. A sonic knowing the MU could've punished u for a few of em but that's nitpicky. What lost u game 3 and 4 is pretty much your deviation from your playstyle in game 1 and 2. You started approaching in a few cases with Nair on shield and twice with fair. U also went for grabs and dashgrabs (!) Which u didn't in game 1 and 2. Also the situation in which u tried to grab was also not worth it even if u hit it, since sonic can up b out of it. U also chased sonic in a lot occasions so that u always had to flee afterwards in which sonic got spincharge combos. That's the way u lost game 3 afaik. Game 3 was also the Game in which u played stupidly the first stock (agressive etc.)

And the second stock u got ur **** together. But since u got impatient (?) Or played aggro the first stock u still had a few aggri hick ups and approached a few times which cost u the game. Game 4 was bad play by u. It was everything that got u punished in 1 game. Look st game 1 and 4 and u will understand. Game 5 was Nontheless your "Nim get ur **** right!" Moment because u won that on hard the first stock. Brilliant play right there. Game 5 was more similair to game 1 and 2 when it came down to playing the MU right. In game 5s 2nd stock u again had the mistakds mentioned above that brought u to 80% or so. The Sonic didn't adapt that well tbh since he went for a stronger "bait and punish " that didn't work game 5 and 2. Sonic punishes agressive play really hard so u got ur ass handed there. To close up: game 1 and 2 were solid play, game 3 1st stock was u being stupid & 2nd stock u adapting back to your playstyle but since u approached and tried to flee u got

caught by spindash that killed u, Game 4 was ****** mode, game 5 1st stock Bookwork and nice pressure into 2nd stock. Your impatience led to you getting

Combed so that u only got around 40% extra credit. Then again solid play but 2 offensive options got u punished hard. I think u understand the MU quite well but don't get frustrated when u get %. We get combed hard and offensive options are brutally punished by sonics. We pretty much have to play like that to win. FeelsBadMan.

Games + Analysis:
- Jab (a mix of double jab or triple jab), SH FF Fair, SH Fair and pivot F-tilt are my primary tools in neutral with some help from soft-throw bombs and Boomerangs
-- Goal with any one of these moves landing is to simply knock Sonic back and draw a bomb
- I wasn't responding correctly to Homing Attacks
-- Correct response is often to go for spotdodge -> Up-smash but that carries a fair amount of risk
-- Simply shielding is not always the best as Dabuz puts it, if it hits your shield consider them safe
-- Sonic has from frame 22 - 34 to release a Homing Attack so to simply wait 10 frames and spotdodge then punish should be the best option
- At low-mid percentages you want to constantly DI behind Sonic after he up-throws you as DI away leads into a guaranteed Fair
-- With DI behind you can airdodge the Bair for awhile but then it becomes a 50/50 where Sonic waits for airdodge then Bairs or Nairs and you can then jump out
- I'm landing a lot with AC Dair and if distance or space is lacking, FF Nair
-- I think this is the best option but I was considering Bomb Pull -> FF Zair to cover landing along with FF Fair
- My loss of first stock was because I over extended with Jab
-- Sonic's F-smash is longer than it appears
- Down-throw -> Up-air should work 90% over as if Sonic jumps it'll hit and if he airdodges Up-air should last past the airdodge however in this case it looks like airdodge cancelled just barely above the ground
-- Probably better at 90% damage on Sonic with tier 1 rage to wait for a potential airdodge as it's safer
--- I do play with this Sonic quite a bit so he knows not to simply jump all the time, it may be better to establish someone always jumps or airdodges before deciding whether to Up-air or airdodge bait
- Double Fair to Grab had slight hesitation so I ended up missing, need to be quicker on that to grab Sonic before he can jump or tech the ground
- 0:40 I misread the situation here, I thought he was going to go down with FF Bair but instead it was just a normal falling Bair
-- The early Up-B was meant to catch that
-- Tether would've been the correct option or simply waiting longer before recovering
-- As Vura said this was kind of stupid of me, I had a chance to retreat to center stage but decided to fight on the platform
- Reverse Up-B was a consideration as this happened but I decided to play it safe
-- Playing it safe didn't work out lol
-1:58 Down-throw to Up-smash is not guaranteed but I was betting on him to airdodge
- I don't throw many unsafe Boomerangs so this was a poor read on a retreating option from him
- 2:40 This falling Nair was unnecessarily dangerous
-- The idea here was to cut off his angle to prevent a Bair but because I did that I took a F-smash instead
-- He could grab me on landing or Up-smash my landing but I've established a heavy reliance on AC Dair to land so it's unlikely
- I lost the game over a misinput reverse Up-B and a dash to skid instead of dash to shield
- Slight hesitation on the bomb connection leads to the grab missing but it should work at 0% as you have 22 frames of hit stun on your opponent
- Misinput DA, was meant to be a Fair
- Now at 0:18 this is kind of tricky, I thought the bomb connected and was dashing for the Fair combo but his spin dash went through the bomb
-- Bomb needs one frame after contact with a hitbox to register so that on the next it can explode
-- Bomb also can pass through once it has been hit
-- This doesn't happen too often but it caught me off guard and I got comboed for it
- The grab on landing as a poor guess, uncharacteristic of me
- At 93% after Sonic's Up-air connects the instant Up-B to Up-air will kill if you do not airdodge when he's upon you
-- Rage doesn't seem to matter for Sonic in this case
-- I did DI in so it was easy for him to track me down like this and finish me once I did jump
-- Solution is likely to DI away and then jump as he shouldn't be able to touch you at that point
- As Vura mentioned it's not a good idea to drift onto Sonic's shield with Nair, it's easy for him to punish
- I played the remainder of this set way too frantic
-- If it comes down to time, it comes down to time, I shouldn't force a thing
- At 1:49 with Sonic at tier 2 rage and myself being at 68% it looks like I can just jump out of the Bair if I DI away
- Don't bother punishing F-smash in general, as it has a FAF of only 48 (28 frames after the hit-box)
-- I suppose if you PS or grab just as it lands you can punish it but in this case it wasn't worth it going for the grab (no follow-ups at this percentage and rage)

Closing:
As Vura said playing aggressively is definitely not the way to approach this MU. Sonic is simply too good up close and you won't hope to match him if you're the one pushing into him. Scizor has also mentioned this MU is impossible once we have to approach which also why I prefer to go Rosa in this MU. Frankly losing the first stock might as well be the same as losing the game if the Sonic is patient.

The key to the MU is really getting Sonic to run into your stuff otherwise it gets really ugly.

Also @Natmax to see how to play Sonic as my boy gets bopped by his local one.
 
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BaPTraPLaP

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BaPTraPLaP

Nimious

Smash Apprentice
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Dec 6, 2014
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148
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Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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Nimious

For @Natmax who got bopped by Craftis geez lol.

Refer to the vs Sonic break down Vura and I did earlier first.

Game 1:
- Jab start is not a good idea, you put yourself in a 50/50 situation where your reward at best is a jab combo or down-throw to possible read whereas he's probably going to grab you and gets a Fair or Bair
-- Which is what happened
- Arrow is not a good idea, at that range Sonic could rush you down and shield it then punish
-- Space is at a premium in this MU, you best use it wisely
- Work on AC Dair you clown
- You don't have time to do boomerang then standing bomb pull
-- Boomerangs value in this MU is so piss poor, reconsider its use and stick to bombs in general
- You got punished for Boomerang at 0:55
-- You won't get more than Zair off a retreating boomerang at mid percentages if Sonic DIs away
- Good call to Nair Sonic when he up-threw you at 1:00
-- If all you do is airdodge and jump you'll get abused by Sonic
-- Also keep in mind a Dair would kill him at later percentages if he's over aggressive with the spring jump
- 1:10 Out-played to the extreme
- 1:15 You realize you pull the bomb to use as a life line right? So why is it that you toss it instantly?
- 1:25 Quad grab? How badly do you want to lose?
-- Grab at this percentage won't get you more than Up-air and it won't kill either but you took 50% cause you went full ******
- 1:50 Craftis sensed your *********** and gave it to you, you should be tethering to stage even at extreme not always doing Up-B
-- Tether is safer and faster in general

Game 2:
- Arrow start is the worst possible start you can have since whether you hit or not you're going to get punished one way or another
-- Again keep in mind what you give up, which is a ton of stage control
- 2:28 stop jumping towards the stage, grab the ledge sometimes
-- Craftis has a clear read on your panic
- 2:34 why are you jabbing ledge in grab range?
- 2:40 it's Nair to grab, why are you jabbing?
- 2:45 Bombslides are useless if you have no control, you did a slide right into getting hit
- Whatever happens at 2:56, you don't need to approach, use the time to get bombs but because you're approaching and making it super easy for Sonic you're going to get beat
- Sonic is not a fast faller, I don't think the F-smash AD read would even connect
- 3:37 Dropping down with Nair is dangerous, if you've shown you'll do this you'll fall into grabs and F-smashes
- 3:50 Craftis has given you multiple indications of trying to F-smash your Fair landings so why is that you try it again?
-- Has Craftis shown to do trump Bairs? Either way you need to mix things up
- 3:57 Another immediately FF Nair, you need to mix things up or it's easy for Craftis
- 4:15 When will you realize you've landed zero Boomerang combos and possibly zero Boomerangs overall and that it's a terrible idea?
- Boomerang, Boomerang, Boomerang
-- When will you notice you're getting nothing off of these but punishes?
--- Turn brain on please
- Oh god. Why? Did you give up? Why would you do Dair?

Summary:
- You're playing the MU wrong.
- Boomerangs are bad
- Learn F-slide and learn AC Dair
- Approaching sucks
- Main tools in MU are double jab, pivot F-tilt and FF Fair
 
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Nimious

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Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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Nimious

By request of @GhettoNinja.

Game 1:
- 0:43 don't do advancing boomerang against a Samus with full charged shot since once shot it'll go through the rang and into you
- 0:51 do a F-slide not Up-slide
- Why are you advancing and advancing poorly at that?
-- If you're going to advance on a Samus you need to F-slide, you need the cover
- 1:07 work on the FH on Down-throw -> Up-air
- Why are you standing still at 1:40?
-- You deserved to get only 5% on him
--- What you should've done was look for a chance to draw bomb and then look to toss it through soft missiles or when he SHs
- 2:04 Don't bother with in place bomb pulls as you're completely vulnerable
-- Vs projectile characters you want to rely on FH bomb pulls
- Poor grab attempt lets you die for game 1, the risk and reward here was terrible

Game 3:
- Don't bother with Zair unless he's shielding
-- Neutral Zair leads to nothing (at most grab which leads to nothing true on Samus)
-- Zair only when you've forced shield to condition him
--- i.e F-slide to Zair to condition him to stay in shield longer so that you can just tomahawk grab or just straight up grab out of F-slide
--- Still not great given grab gets you nothing
- Dash attack is Samus' combo starter you want to respect this and if you feel it coming shield
-- Better to force a Samus to grab over getting dash attacked
- 6:30 that landing was too aggro
-- I would've shielded or rolled
-- Point of landing is to land not to hit them, maybe it would've worked out but if Samus DA or grabs your jab is likely not going to lead to more than 7%
- Samus OoS is bad
-- Find out as soon as you can whether this Samus does Up-B OoS or not
-- If not abuse that fact
- 6:44 is a terrible sequence
-- After the jab I'd draw bomb and use that to cover any advance
-- As you did not you got hit and lost neutral for it
- This is one of the match ups where you don't want to bother with grab OoS and use SA or Up-Smash OoS more due to grab leading to basically nothing
- 7:12 Get used to soft-nair grab, jab won't connect at this percentage
- 7:20 I noticed this through two games but you're generally tech rolling in all the time
-- Mix it up, this Samus isn't punishing you as hard as he could for it
- F-slide to Boomerang isn't a legitiment combo
-- This is something you don't need to do at all as if Bomb hits Boomerang won't
-- If Bomb does not hit Boomerang isn't likely to either
- Super randy DA
-- I get it, you're behind it could kill but you deserved to die for it
- If you do Down-throw Samus be sure to chase DI with Up-air
-- Even if nothing is true he still has to land and Up-air beats airdodges
- 8:04 You didn't account for him being floaty
-- Jab 3 is delayed in order to hit floaties
- 8:08 Advancing without a bomb is asking for trouble
-- And you lose this exchange, get sent to the air and he's now charging
- Good finish but like that's hardly planned and on purpose
-- Try and win through the neutral not desperation
--- Had that not worked and you got grabbed, it's you who loses

Summary:
- Try and keep a bomb in hand at all times
-- This is the safest way to approach and engage
- There's more stuff but I give up :)
 

ronniem3

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 15, 2015
Messages
17
Location
Vancouver, BC
Looks like a whole bunch of annotations were added to the video already. Only thing I can add is at 4:25 you could usmash out of dthrow rather than nair for more damage since Cloud had limit.
 
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