Official Viability Ratings v2 | Competitive Impressions

[juddy96]

Which is cool, except we don't actually know if that tournament will really happen or not tbh or if it will even be a thing. I'd personally much rather see him at something like Genesis 3.

I have a different idea. Why don't we crowdfund a few Americans to go to the largest upcoming Japanese tournament. The unique thing about Japan, is with all their diversity, there are so many guys that can beat top guys and lose to others, and it really depends who is playing best on the day and the bracket. So instead of sending a few Japanese, why not send a few Americans to Japan, and see how they like facing the likes of lets say: Brood (Duck Hunt), Songun (G&W), Komorikiri (Sonic), Earth (Pit), Edge (Sheik), Ranai (Villager) all in a row in bracket. That would be what I personally would like to see.

 

[Teshie U]

Very interesting that Villager is considered to beat Rosa and Sonic considered to beat ZSS

opposite the opinions of NA

 

[Pazx]

I think MK is likely at the very bottom of "Top Tier" but I do wonder how well he deals with characters that are prone to escaping combos that DI properly.

See, the issue isn't that Pac-Man is that hard to play - he isn't.
The issue also isn't that it's hard to grasp how his options can work out for him.
It's also not hard to execute stuff with him or make it up on the spot.

You simply overrate this character and your opinions of his matchups are proof of that. Pac-Man does not go even with Fox, Sonic, ZSS or Yoshi and I really, really don't trust you when you say he beats Falcon, Diddy or Ness.

The truth is that you're deluding yourself over your favorite video game character. That's the real issue.



Brood was by all means considered a top level player at that time, even though Nietono had just taken the spot as best japanese Olimar. Most people just hadn't heard of him because most people were very ignorant towards what's happening in Japan ... they still are for the most part.

(Former? idk) Diddy main, I think Diddyac is evenish. Definitely not one of Diddy's good matchups, not anymore anyway. Between his frame 3 nair that kills, trampoline, and hydrant this character isn't easy to juggle. Bananas aren't super great in this matchup because Pac-Man controls the stage so well (and if you pull a peel out he's going to set up as well) so it changes the way you have to play a little bit. His biggest weakness on paper is his grab but in practice it's not that bad, dash to shield with banana in hand looks like it should be stupidly good but it's just not because this character has other ways of dealing with a shielding opponent. I haven't played Nessac nearly as much so I won't comment but I can say that a trampoline on the ledge covers every single one of Ness's getup options which is pretty significant for the matchup. Pac-Man is a legitimately good character.

Roy and Pikachu seem too low, but it doesn't seem too off other than that. I mean come on, Captain Falcon above Pikachu? No way.

Roy is above all other FE reps so I don't think we can consider that "too low". It just looks questionable because of Mewtwo's placement.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Very interesting that Villager is considered to beat Rosa and Sonic considered to beat ZSS

opposite the opinions of NA

Idk if my opinions matters too much but I only had that MU as a slight advantage for Rosalina I also had her losing the MU in customs. It can be a pretty difficult MU for Rosalina.

 

[LancerStaff]

That's not really true. I remember when i was young and melee too. For me and my friends Fox, sheik and falcon was the best characters. We were running and smashing, shield and grab was something we weren't aware of, item was on. And in these condition, being able to get in and hit, even if it didn't lead to anything else, or able to avoid some pokemon was necessary.
Do anyone tried to play ganondorf, bowser or DDD in free for all with item?
There is a permanent misconception that heavies are balanced with items, and therefore can't be buffed. Heavies are even worse with item. If someone get a hammer, heavies will die. If a AOE pokemon or assist trophy appear on the stage heavies will die. Heavies can't breathe in a free for all, they can't replace themselves to get out. They eat every single projectiles.
The best character in free for all are the best characters period: sheik, ZSS, yoshi, falcon, pikachu... Add items, and then you will understand what brawl MK would have been if he was OP.

That's just not true. Back in Brawl everybody was obsessed with Ike, Zelda, Pit, and Link. Now it's Little Mac (who, yaknow, can't take a hit), Link, the DLC characters besides Ryu, Megaman and Robin from what I've seen.

Roy is above all other FE reps so I don't think we can consider that "too low". It just looks questionable because of Mewtwo's placement.

Didn't we just discuss the other day that Roy wasn't as good as Marth even before last patch?

 

[Greward]

That's not really true. I remember when i was young and melee too. For me and my friends Fox, sheik and falcon was the best characters. We were running and smashing, shield and grab was something we weren't aware of, item was on. And in these condition, being able to get in and hit, even if it didn't lead to anything else, or able to avoid some pokemon was necessary.
Do anyone tried to play ganondorf, bowser or DDD in free for all with item?
There is a permanent misconception that heavies are balanced with items, and therefore can't be buffed. Heavies are even worse with item. If someone get a hammer, heavies will die. If a AOE pokemon or assist trophy appear on the stage heavies will die. Heavies can't breathe in a free for all, they can't replace themselves to get out. They eat every single projectiles.
The best character in free for all are the best characters period: sheik, ZSS, yoshi, falcon, pikachu... Add items, and then you will understand what brawl MK would have been if he was OP.

Melee is a bad example because it's a game where Fox is more hard hitter than Bowser lol
Sheik, Fox, Falcon all are fast and hit super hard and kill out of most moves at ridiculous % in melee.

Heavies get worse in items FFA, but in time mode FFA they are the best since they can get the most kills, and each kill gives a point.

From Brawl days, I remember casuals saying Ike was the best character.

 

[Nobie]

According to Abadango, Mewtwo has a rough time against the top tiers but beats the lower tiers. Also he praises Mewtwo's ability to turn a match around with one good opportunity.

 

[Gawain]

So is Robin still considered bad? Because, with these latest patches he seems pretty braindead but really good. Every time he gets a throw he gets good percentage off of it now. All he has to do is land an Arcfire at around 100 and he kills you with up air. He may be limited in how many kill setups he has but that's a really good one, Arcfire is one of his most used moves. His jab is stupid now too, its like, even a raw jab nets around 16 percent. I was playing against some mook online earlier and struggling WAY more than I've ever struggled vs a Robin. He just seems better now.

 

[Planty]

So is Robin still considered bad? Because, with these latest patches he seems pretty braindead but really good. Every time he gets a throw he gets good percentage off of it now. All he has to do is land an Arcfire at around 100 and he kills you with up air. He may be limited in how many kill setups he has but that's a really good one, Arcfire is one of his most used moves. His jab is stupid now too, its like, even a raw jab nets around 16 percent. I was playing against some mook online earlier and struggling WAY more than I've ever struggled vs a Robin. He just seems better now.

Robin still has that fundamental weakness: She's REALLY REALLY slow. Her matchups spread is still bad too. She loses to zoners because she can't approach and she loses to rushdown because her zoning isn't that great. I don't think she has ANY good matchups vs top tiers (Luigi?) and overall she just struggles a lot. Arcfire still isn'tt good. You could roll into her on reaction to avoid it and it kinda sucks against shorties. Her recovery is also extremely gimpable and she has trouble landing.

 

[Gawain]

That's just not true. Back in Brawl everybody was obsessed with Ike, Zelda, Pit, and Link. Now it's Little Mac (who, yaknow, can't take a hit), Link, the DLC characters besides Ryu, Megaman and Robin from what I've seen.



Didn't we just discuss the other day that Roy wasn't as good as Marth even before last patch?

Maybe a handful of people decided that. But I don't think that's true at all. Marth BEATS Roy as in he wins the matchup, but I definitely don't think he's overall better. Roy fares much, much better vs more of the high and top tier characters than Marth does.

 

[RayNoire]

According to Abadango, Mewtwo has a rough time against the top tiers but beats the lower tiers. Also he praises Mewtwo's ability to turn a match around with one good opportunity.

Mewtwo actually has some problems with Zelda and Robin, and isn't really comfortable against most of the low tier. That seems like it would fit someone like Falco more than Mewtwo.

One reason Japan might overrate Mewtwo is Ranai, since Mewtwo has a good MU against Villager. I think ROB is also more popular in Japan, and Mewtwo beats him.

 

[Teshie U]

Whats wrong with Mewtwo vs Zelda/Robin that isnt also wrong half the other matchups in the game?

 

[Jucchan]

I have a different idea. Why don't we crowdfund a few Americans to go to the largest upcoming Japanese tournament. The unique thing about Japan, is with all their diversity, there are so many guys that can beat top guys and lose to others, and it really depends who is playing best on the day and the bracket. So instead of sending a few Japanese, why not send a few Americans to Japan, and see how they like facing the likes of lets say: Brood (Duck Hunt), Songun (G&W), Komorikiri (Sonic), Earth (Pit), Edge (Sheik), Ranai (Villager) all in a row in bracket. That would be what I personally would like to see.

We're a little too late for that though since the 300 player national is next month and registration is closed :/ I'm sure they would let American players in the bracket if they asked but we would need to get the funds very quickly and it would a bit of a short notice. It might be worth a shot though since I can't imagine a tournament of this caliber happening in Japan for another half-year, maybe longer.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Maybe a handful of people decided that. But I don't think that's true at all. Marth BEATS Roy as in he wins the matchup, but I definitely don't think he's overall better. Roy fares much, much better vs more of the high and top tier characters than Marth does.

I think Roy being considered better than Marth was DLC hype. Then there's the fact that Marth gg as received significant buffs. I also don't think Roy does better than Marth vs top tiers.

Also which top tiers do Roy do better vs than Marth? Sheik? Rosa? Luigi? Ness? Pikachu? ZSS? Sonic? MK? Mario? Fox? Diddy?

The way I see it Roy is combo food. Being a fast faller such as he is. Which hurts him a lot vs the others. While he has a better grab game than Marth I don't think that help vs the tops.

 

[juddy96]

We're a little too late for that though since the 300 player national is next month and registration is closed :/ I'm sure they would let American players in the bracket if they asked but we would need to get the funds very quickly and it would a bit of a short notice. It might be worth a shot though since I can't imagine a tournament of this caliber happening in Japan for another half-year, maybe longer.

Gotta be worth a shot. Someone that speaks both languages should ask the organizers and if they say yes then contact players (ESAM maybe?)

 

[Gawain]

I think Roy being considered better than Marth was DLC hype. Then there's the fact that Marth gg as received significant buffs. I also don't think Roy does better than Marth vs top tiers.

Also which top tiers do Roy do better vs than Marth? Sheik? Rosa? Luigi? Ness? Pikachu? ZSS? Sonic? MK? Mario? Fox?

The way I see it Roy is combo food. Being a fast faller such as he is. Which hurts him a lot vs the others. While he has a better grab game than Marth I don't think that help vs the tops.

Are you kidding? Having a good grab game is part of what MAKES the top tiers the top. Roy has safe aerial approaches and can beat shields much harder than marth can due to his grabs. Roys fast falling also makes empty hops viable whereas they just don't work as well for Marth. Fast falling also lets Roy return to the ground easier. It makes him vulnerable to some combos, but characters like Falcon actually combo Marth much easier. You can confirm into footstools off aerials on floats and you can't on fastfallers. Roy also has more and faster kill moves and setups for them.

 

[LancerStaff]

Are you kidding? Having a good grab game is part of what MAKES the top tiers the top. Roy has safe aerial approaches and can beat shields much harder than marth can due to his grabs. Roys fast falling also makes empty hops viable whereas they just don't work as well for Marth. Fast falling also lets Roy return to the ground easier. It makes him vulnerable to some combos, but characters like Falcon actually combo Marth much easier. You can confirm into footstools off aerials on floats and you can't on fastfallers. Roy also has more and faster kill moves and setups for them.

I'm not really seeing it. Most characters combo better on fast fallers, and most of the top tiers can easily exploit his recovery. Falling fast also means it's harder to autocancel when recovering from a combo.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Are you kidding? Having a good grab game is part of what MAKES the top tiers the top. Roy has safe aerial approaches and can beat shields much harder than marth can due to his grabs. Roys fast falling also makes empty hops viable whereas they just don't work as well for Marth. Fast falling also lets Roy return to the ground easier. It makes him vulnerable to some combos, but characters like Falcon actually combo Marth much easier. You can confirm into footstools off aerials on floats and you can't on fastfallers. Roy also has more and faster kill moves and setups for them.

And all of those tops have 2 frame jabs or faster....What's your point? With the exception of Ness Sonic Diddy mk and Rosalina. You still haven't named the MUs where roy shines over Marth

 

[Dabuz]

from Ranai just being good, but thinking that even if that's true, the character has to be good to in order to get such good results, I decided to re-evaluate the character. His ability to rack up damage increased since he has f-air and n-air from down-throw now. His slingshot is no different from Sheik's f-air. He recovery and recovery denial are both amazing. He dies later than most due to being able to stop he aerial momentum with side-b, and with rage he can kill with triple turnip and sweet spot b-air. He can also escape Sheik's options from down-throw. He can also get guaranteed kills with his axe which comes out fast. I think he's at an advantage against Rosalina, but I'm not so sure about any other characters.

He is out of his mind.

 

[NachoOfCheese]

"Grab combos and kill throws are sooooo important in this meta. That's why Fox isn't like top 5"
*Marth vs Roy discussion comes up*
"Marth is way better. Roy's grab combos have got nothing on Marth"

What. Can someone please explain why a good grab/throw game is extremely important UNLESS it's Roy? Where exactly is the logic in this.

 

[Kaladin]

"Grab combos and kill throws are sooooo important in this meta. That's why Fox isn't like top 5"
*Marth vs Roy discussion comes up*
"Marth is way better. Roy's grab combos have got nothing on Marth"

What. Can someone please explain why a good grab/throw game is extremely important UNLESS it's Roy? What exactly is the logic in this.

There is none. However, there is a point where a better non-grab game outweighs a grab game. Personally, I still think Roy is better, but that is the argument for Marth's superiority.

 

[Ffamran]

According to Abadango, Mewtwo has a rough time against the top tiers but beats the lower tiers. Also he praises Mewtwo's ability to turn a match around with one good opportunity.

That last sentence could be applied to Ganondorf, Zelda, Roy, Marth, Ryu, Bowser, Charizard, Ike, Samus, Dr. Mario, and a bunch of other characters if not the entire cast.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

"Grab combos and kill throws are sooooo important in this meta. That's why Fox isn't like top 5"
*Marth vs Roy discussion comes up*
"Marth is way better. Roy's grab combos have got nothing on Marth"

What. Can someone please explain why a good grab/throw game is extremely important UNLESS it's Roy? Where exactly is the logic in this.

For me it's because his up close game isn't as good. So even once he's in you can still just jab and it's probably faster than his options.

 

[Nobie]

That last sentence could be applied to Ganondorf, Zelda, Roy, Marth, Ryu, Bowser, Charizard, Ike, Samus, Dr. Mario, and a bunch of other characters if not the entire cast.

In thinking about this, though, how many characters actually have as complete a KO package as Mewtwo?

Ganondorf is filled to the brim with KO moves, but lacks a real kill throw, and doesn't have a projectile.
Zelda has a lot of strong attacks (especially if sweetspotted), but lacks a truly powerful deadly projectile.
Roy can combo off of throws for a kill, but doesn't really have a kill throw. Also the issue of sweet spots is much more pronounced of course.
Marth is somewhat similar, but that early tipper isn't to be underestimated.
Ryu has THE Kill move in True Shoryuken, and a ton of nice powerful smash attacks, but his most frightening KO power is concentrated on that one kill move.
Bowser, Charizard can kill off of a lot, including off of grabs, smashes (of course) and even tilts, but lacks a killing projectile.
Ike has power of course and sort of has a kill throw.
Samus has the projectile and some decent kill power, but her kill options aren't that diverse.
Dr. Mario's back throw is a bit weak, has no killing projectile, and range of course is an issue.

None of these things the characters lack make them bad or good characters inherently, but then you look at just the ways Mewtwo can land an early or medium-damage kill or turn things around from a certain position, he kind of has a lot.

Forward and Down Smash kill at reasonable percents. Up Smash is among the strongest in the game.
TWO Kill throws, including the strongest up throw.
A deadly projectile that also creates opportunities for followups.
A fairly quick and powerful spike, combined with a strong recovery.
The only thing Mewtwo lacks when it comes to kill power is strong tilts.

 

[Djent]

Big Boss is in WSF at The Break, beating Blue and Max Ketchum to get there. That's kind of nifty I guess. Also in local news, Xanadu is freaking huge this week, holy crap.

@ Jucchan On what day(s) is the 300+ national occurring?

 

[RayNoire]

Whats wrong with Mewtwo vs Zelda/Robin that isnt also wrong half the other matchups in the game?

With Zelda it's just easy to land **** on Mewtwo due to his oversized hurtbox. With Robin we have trouble with the range and power of his air game. There's more to it obviously but that's the gist.

Both characters enjoy heavies, which Mewtwo basically is. Except that he's light.

In thinking about this, though, how many characters actually have as complete a KO package as Mewtwo?

Ganondorf is filled to the brim with KO moves, but lacks a real kill throw, and doesn't have a projectile.
Zelda has a lot of strong attacks (especially if sweetspotted), but lacks a truly powerful deadly projectile.
Roy can combo off of throws for a kill, but doesn't really have a kill throw. Also the issue of sweet spots is much more pronounced of course.
Marth is somewhat similar, but that early tipper isn't to be underestimated.
Ryu has THE Kill move in True Shoryuken, and a ton of nice powerful smash attacks, but his most frightening KO power is concentrated on that one kill move.
Bowser, Charizard can kill off of a lot, including off of grabs, smashes (of course) and even tilts, but lacks a killing projectile.
Ike has power of course and sort of has a kill throw.
Samus has the projectile and some decent kill power, but her kill options aren't that diverse.
Dr. Mario's back throw is a bit weak, has no killing projectile, and range of course is an issue.

None of these things the characters lack make them bad or good characters inherently, but then you look at just the ways Mewtwo can land an early or medium-damage kill or turn things around from a certain position, he kind of has a lot.

Forward and Down Smash kill at reasonable percents. Up Smash is among the strongest in the game.
TWO Kill throws, including the strongest up throw.
A deadly projectile that also creates opportunities for followups.
A fairly quick and powerful spike, combined with a strong recovery.
The only thing Mewtwo lacks when it comes to kill power is strong tilts.

Mewtwo's similar to Robin in that he has a lot of okay kill options but none are super great. His throws are held back by his miserable grab, his jab setups are finicky and unreliable, Shadow Ball is slow, Usmash is one of the laggiest moves in the game, Dsmash is slow, Disable requires opponents to be grounded and facing you, etc.

Living to 150% against Mewtwo is not incredibly rare.

 

[NachoOfCheese]

Big Boss is in WSF at The Break, beating Blue and Max Ketchum to get there. That's kind of nifty I guess. Also in local news, Xanadu is freaking huge this week, holy crap.

@ Jucchan On what day(s) is the 300+ national occurring?

This gives merit to the "Ike beats sonic" idea. I like this.

 

[Djent]

Maybe, but both players are pretty mid-level. I just thought the Ike enthusiasts here would be interested.
Though I'm sorry to say False destroyed BB...'twas brutal, I tell ye!

 

[Antonykun]

"Grab combos and kill throws are sooooo important in this meta. That's why Fox isn't like top 5"
*Marth vs Roy discussion comes up*
"Marth is way better. Roy's grab combos have got nothing on Marth"

What. Can someone please explain why a good grab/throw game is extremely important UNLESS it's Roy? Where exactly is the logic in this.

Same reason why Swordfighter is not good despite having similar throw games their throws do not confirm into kills. Fox's throws are about pressuring and getting you to not block

 

[Jucchan]

He is out of his mind.

LOL I meant "disadvantage" not advantage my b

@ Jucchan On what day(s) is the 300+ national occurring?

It's September 21-22 Japan time.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Big Boss is in WSF at The Break, beating Blue and Max Ketchum to get there. That's kind of nifty I guess. Also in local news, Xanadu is freaking huge this week, holy crap.

@ Jucchan On what day(s) is the 300+ national occurring?

The first link goes to itunes.

But yay more Ikes beating up Sonic!

 

[juddy96]

Big Boss is in WSF at The Break, beating Blue and Max Ketchum to get there. That's kind of nifty I guess. Also in local news, Xanadu is freaking huge this week, holy crap.

Some rather hefty weeklies today.

http://challonge.com/smash4gu81815
http://austinsmash4.challonge.com/atxfiles14

 

[NachoOfCheese]

Same reason why Swordfighter is not good despite having similar throw games their throws do not confirm into kills. Fox's throws are about pressuring and getting you to not block

I thought it was agreed upon that Swordfighter is good? (I wouldn't know my local scene is all 1111 default)

 

[Djent]

The first link goes to itunes.

I...don't even own that album. WTF (correct bracket link)

Anyway, I'll try to do live updates for the 300+ tourney.

 

[juddy96]

I...don't even own that album. WTF (correct bracket link)

Anyway, I'll try to do live updates for the 300+ tourney.

Maybe if I'm insane I will do another translated bracket

But first, Umebura 19 before the 300+ tourney

 

[Nobie]

I think the other factor in Abadango's list is that it seems to be almost more "matchup charty" than how a lot of people here perceive tiers.

Consider the idea that Abadango first says that there are a lot of high tiers that Mewtwo struggles against, but that he doesn't lose to any of the lower tiers. From the perspective commonly seen in this thread, that would make Mewtwo an automatic low tier even assuming everything Abadango says is true. If your losing matchups are the most frequently used characters, why would you say he's any good? But if you look at it from the idea that all characters in a game have equal representation, that can change a lot.

 

[Ffamran]

In thinking about this, though, how many characters actually have as complete a KO package as Mewtwo?

Ganondorf is filled to the brim with KO moves, but lacks a real kill throw, and doesn't have a projectile.
Zelda has a lot of strong attacks (especially if sweetspotted), but lacks a truly powerful deadly projectile.
Roy can combo off of throws for a kill, but doesn't really have a kill throw. Also the issue of sweet spots is much more pronounced of course.
Marth is somewhat similar, but that early tipper isn't to be underestimated.
Ryu has THE Kill move in True Shoryuken, and a ton of nice powerful smash attacks, but his most frightening KO power is concentrated on that one kill move.
Bowser, Charizard can kill off of a lot, including off of grabs, smashes (of course) and even tilts, but lacks a killing projectile.
Ike has power of course and sort of has a kill throw.
Samus has the projectile and some decent kill power, but her kill options aren't that diverse.
Dr. Mario's back throw is a bit weak, has no killing projectile, and range of course is an issue.

None of these things the characters lack make them bad or good characters inherently, but then you look at just the ways Mewtwo can land an early or medium-damage kill or turn things around from a certain position, he kind of has a lot.

Forward and Down Smash kill at reasonable percents. Up Smash is among the strongest in the game.
TWO Kill throws, including the strongest up throw.
A deadly projectile that also creates opportunities for followups.
A fairly quick and powerful spike, combined with a strong recovery.
The only thing Mewtwo lacks when it comes to kill power is strong tilts.

That way I read it, what Abadango said, the sentence was like: "If Mewtwo can get a read, he can take a stock and turn the match to his favor." Every character can make a read and take a stock. Whether that's landing a strong kill move like a tipper Side Smash from Marth, landing a shield break with Collarbone Breaker and killing them with an input Shoryuken (if they're not a Jigglypuff who would just die before that) as Ryu , somehow landing a Warlock Punch in neutral as Ganondorf, or capitalizing off a read and setting up a kill like what Sheik, ZSS, Greninja, and plenty more can do. It's a really vague sentence to me.

If it was something like, Mewtwo has safe and reliable options to turn a match around, that might be better. Take Ganondorf, he has quick aerials that do a lot of damage and a ton of knockback. His tilts are pretty fast for a character of his weight class. Those are examples of Ganondorf being able to quickly turn a match to his favor if he's able to land them. So, what's Mewtwo got? I dunno; I don't play him. I know his Fair is fast and strong and you can set it up from a Nair, but that's just 1 move.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I think the other factor in Abadango's list is that it seems to be almost more "matchup charty" than how a lot of people here perceive tiers.

Consider the idea that Abadango first says that there are a lot of high tiers that Mewtwo struggles against, but that he doesn't lose to any of the lower tiers. From the perspective commonly seen in this thread, that would make Mewtwo an automatic low tier even assuming everything Abadango says is true. If your losing matchups are the most frequently used characters, why would you say he's any good? But if you look at it from the idea that all characters in a game have equal representation, that can change a lot.

So basically an unweighted average of a character's entire matchup spread? I can see that a bit.

Although while I'm thinking about tiers, I have to admit I don't particularly care about...precision, I guess is the best word? Like, as of right now Sheik is almost certainly in a tier by herself. Let's call it S tier. Then below her is a fairly large blob of characters with varying degrees of results, representation, theory, etc. that all have some sort of claim to being A tier. And that's frankly good enough for me, I'm not fussed over picking out exactly who is top 5 or top 10 or whatever. Rinse and repeat for successive tiers until there aren't any characters left. (Is there honestly any meaningful distinction between being 5th and 6th on a tier list? Why the hullabaloo over picking out a top 5? Serious question.)

That was slightly ranty, sorry.

 

[Antonykun]

I thought it was agreed upon that Swordfighter is good? (I wouldn't know my local scene is all 1111 default)

In that context good meant not be pooped on by shiek

 

[Illuminose]

Big Boss is in WSF at The Break, beating Blue and Max Ketchum to get there. That's kind of nifty I guess. Also in local news, Xanadu is freaking huge this week, holy crap.

@ Jucchan On what day(s) is the 300+ national occurring?

aaaaaand Blue just beat Big Boss in losers. Played Mega Man g1 and lost, switched to Sonic for g2 and won, 2 stocked g3.