VGBootCamp: Regarding Project M

[EpixAura]

It's this exact kind of negativity and closed-mindedness that no one even tries to tolerate other people's games for #OneUnit.

Depressing, really.

I never intended to insult Smash 4 in that post, but if I did, I'm sorry. However, I would like to make it known that the competitive community isn't as close minded as you think. In the early days of Smash 4, I was far and away on the best players in my state, and supported the scene. I tried as hard as could to like the game, but in the end simply couldn't do it. It has nothing to do with it "not being Melee." I don't know how many people there are who also tried to game and realized it's flaws, but I can guarantee there are a lot.
Second, the problems with the #OneUnit mindset are not so simple they can be solved by kindly tolerating the other games. I'd elaborate, but it should be pretty easy to see what I mean, and I don't feel like going on two rants back to back.

 

[Bladeviper]

According to this article http://www.forbes.com/sites/matthic...w-its-characters-in-other-media-license-free/
Nintendo now allows the use of its IP's in any non-commercial way...

So isn't PM kinda safe form a C&D now?

its still not safe. Are people really forgetting that sonic and snake are not nintendo characters. honestly im not even sure if nintendo cares about pm with how long the let it go on without a C&D but who knows if sega or konami are fine with it.

 

[Coonce]

I honestly don't get it. What is the harm of continuing to stream it until you get a cease and desist? If Nintendo sends you one then you drop it. I seriously doubt Nintendo would take legal action on the spot without a direct warning of some kind.

If PM got too big for Nintendo to ignore, I'd hope they'd be smart about it and just acknowledge it for the amazing piece of fan devotion it is. Hell, maybe even pull a Valve and try to work with the team.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I honestly don't get it. What is the harm of continuing to stream it until you get a cease and desist? If Nintendo sends you one then you drop it. I seriously doubt Nintendo would take legal action on the spot without a direct warning of some kind.

If PM got too big for Nintendo to ignore, I'd hope they'd be smart about it and just acknowledge it for the amazing piece of fan devotion it is. Hell, maybe even pull a Valve and try to work with the team.

a C&D IS without warning

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

How long till smash 4 dies as a competitive game, it just isn't designed as one in the slightest. It's a casual game which is fine, but it's not really fit for tournaments

 

[SuperFightingRobotMM]

wait soo.... pm is no more?

 

[EpixAura]

1. EVO 2013 wasn't an attempt to "kill Melee". It was simply two different departments of a corporations having conflicting goals. This happens when you run an international business. Look at the timetable for that controversy. The amount of time between the pulling and reinstating is too short for it to have been a "fan" saving. Corporations need days to respond to fan stuff, this was simply a misunderstanding between two departments in Nintendo and EVO.

2. "Stuff Smash 4 down your throats?" Because of the "prime time" of Smash 4? Are people going to ignore that Smash 4 ran two hours late because MELEE WAS GOING INTO OVERTIME? Smash 4 Top 8 was ready on time. Melee's Top 48 was taking too long. If you want the time of Smash 4's Top 8 and Melee's Top 8, they had a time difference of minutes. Plus, Smash 4 went on the same time as the bloody Super Bowl. The fact that Smash 4 had only 10,000 view count difference with Melee is a godamn miracle.

And another thing, Smash 4 being before Melee...that's how tournaments work. Your biggest event is always the last event. I looked and the same thing happens to every Apex and it usually ended very late.

And I'm floored with how hated Nintendo is and how hated Smash 4 is. You really hate the series so much that you sit up on your high horse and pretend that it will die because it's not Melee? You're right in that it will die, the amount of choking and scaring off anyone who want to play Smash 4 is a sure sign of that. I am now legitimately frightened to enter any Smash 4 tournament thanks to comments like you. I suppose that gives you a rise, huh? It allows you to feel good knowing that another potential Smash 4 fan is now turning away.

I just find it highly ironic that the very same insult other players threw at Melee are now being used to throw at Smash 4. You have become the very thing you hated and are too blind to realize it.

Never once did I mean to say this was the problem. The main culprit in this was actually Smash 4 teams (which I actually enjoy, may I add), and the main culprit of Smash 4 teams taking too long was coaching. As for why I think the game will die... We've already seen an overwhelming negative response to the game, beyond what happened with Brawl. A lot of people really do hate this game because it's not Melee, and that's unfair to the game, but most of those people would honestly have reached the same conclusion even if they had tried it with an open mind. The game's initial success is due to Nintendo's fantastic promotion of the game, as well as it being a new game, with all the hype that this implies. However, that also meant a lot of people weren't aware of it's flaws, and APEX made many of those flaws very clear. Once Nintendo's money is gone and the initial hype wear off, we'll see what happens.

I'm well aware I went a bit far, but this is really what the issue seems to be, and I didn't want to waste my time trying to sugarcoat things. I can't bring myself to say "Keep playing Smash 4," but at the very least, don't take this as a representation of the community of any of the games.

 

[Tino]

Please go away

I beg your pardon?

 

[Christopher Rodriguez]

Don't worry, the S@X PM stream is being taken over by a channel called umdsmash =]

YASSSS This is the best news ever! Thank you for informing me

 

[Inverted reflex]

I beg your pardon?

Every post I see, you always brag about your smash 4, I would respect that if you respect our game, which you don't, you don't even respect the competitive scene, you have no place here.

 

[Inverted reflex]

Let people have fun, this kind of attitude is dumb yes, but the way you act is basically why PM gets flack

The people who don't respect the competitive or pm scene SHOULD NOT be in a pm thread. If you respect either good to go. It just makes people like me mad.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

The people who don't respect the competitive or pm scene SHOULD NOT be in a pm thread. If you respect either good to go. It just makes people like me mad.

I get your point, but it happens the other way around more often

 

[lordvaati]

Everyone is quick to blame nintendo but I would like to point out that there are at least 2 other companies that could sue over PM, sega and konami both have rights to their characters and could do anything nintendo could do legally

3. ShoPro could go after them for adding stuff from the Pokémon Anime.

 

[Downdraft]

It is when you make a profit off of it, aka streaming uploading to youtube with ads.

How is that any different from uploading Nintendo's official games such as all the Let's Plays and WiFi matches that are recorded in many of Nintendo's games?

 

[Snipnigth]

Sakurai said he believes smash brothers as a franchise has no future if they focus on the competitive side, who's actually in the minority

Thats true, but i belive that ppl are still gonna play the game, because its smash so it woudent hurt to add a bit more of balance and technical advatages for the one that like to compete in this game, the once that play for fun are not gonna even notice them...but sakurai is the master of this project there is not much we can do but wish there will be more patches and dlc of neew characters to come

 

[Cutie Gwen]

more balance? I only see Diddy complaints for balance, and Sakurai thinks of 4 player matches for balance

Thats true, but i belive that ppl are still gonna play the game, because its smash so it woudent hurt to add a bit more of balance and technical advatages for the one that like to compete in this game, the once that play for fun are not gonna even notice them...but sakurai is the master of this project there is not much we can do but wish there will be more patches and dlc of neew characters to come

 

[Tino]

Every post I see, you always brag about your smash 4, I would respect that if you respect our game, which you don't, you don't even respect the competitive scene, you have no place here.

First of all, you're saying it's a crime that I like Smash 4 better than Project M, is that it?
Second of all, I never said I don't respect the competitive scene.
Third of all, the Smash community is also a place for casuals, not just competitive.
Fourth of all, why do you care so much anyways?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

How is that any different from uploading Nintendo's official games such as all the Let's Plays and WiFi matches that are recorded in many of Nintendo's games?

One supports nintendo directly.

The other does not.

 

[SevereScreamo]

I think we need a clearly defined law regarding the use of mods. Copyrights aren't being infringed, clearly, since Nintendo would have hopped on that real fast. Warranty breaks don't really mean anything for Nintendo, just the player. I read someone say profiting off of the mod is illegal, which I could understand, though I think what exactly profit means (specific means of acquiring said profit) needs to be explicitly defined as well. The stream is profiting from ads and subscribers, while it pictures content of PM among other Smash games. I've never seen a PM-exclusive partnered channel. Which game they're playing isn't necessarily an aspect of the revenue (it influences demographics but that's really as far as it goes). Twitch is the one shelling out the cash they get from the sub fees and ad companies. It's not PM itself that they're making money from.

So I guess this just lends more into it being an overall uncertainty, since we're not really sure where we stand.

Well i do understand where PM stands legally and i will try to clarify it sorry if most of my post last night were weird or unclear but it was like 1am here and I was on my Iphone (turns out smashboards sucks on mobile) cough cough "john" ahah but because PM uses Nintendo's copyright protected IP without permission Nintendo still has the right to remove videos of it copy right strike it anything really they want with it because Nintendo owns PM technically because it hosts their copyright protected IP and if Nintendo says hey i don't like the way PM portrays Mario I don't want fans to see this and think that we were involved in this and the way Mario appears in this game say if like one of his taunts was giving the finger or something it obviously is not but just pretend for a second Nintendo does not want people to think that Mario games will feature crude content like this and give consumers the wrong idea about their brand or IP that they own and that is why they have full control over PM content and even if its given out for free and no one is making money Nintendo can still put an end to it at anytime. hopefully that helps everyone understand the situation better

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

more balance? I only see Diddy complaints for balance, and Sakurai thinks of 4 player matches for balance

Diddy complaints are unfounded, mOstly.

Sakurai cares about 4 player FFA because smash is not just for 1v1 tournament mode.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Diddy complaints are unfounded, mOstly.

Sakurai cares about 4 player FFA because smash is not just for 1v1 tournament mode.

exactly, Sm4sh is balanced, that's what I meant

 

[Downdraft]

One supports nintendo directly.

The other does not.

Nintendo got their support when players purchased Wiis and Super Smash Bros. Brawl in order to be able to play Project M. I realize that not everyone obtained the game legally; however, the same can be said for other Nintendo games that are shared online. Furthermore, let's not forget the ways in which Nintendo does not support us.

For some reason, Nintendo supports and enhances competitive Pokémon but has a strong stance against competitive Smash Bros. Why should consumers support a company's decisions that adversely affects their beliefs and desires?

 

[SevereScreamo]

There's a difference between nintendrones and people who have a reasonable reason to defend nintendo.

But if you want to put yourself in to the more negative category so you can be offended, fine, be my guest.

I'm not offended by the use of "Nintendrone" I'm just pointing out that calling people names makes you look toxic and childish by isolating a group of people you are being toxic and that's not what people are on this website to do we are on this site to discuss Smash Brothers in a civil manner that is open to all different people's opinions and views you do not have to agree with them but you do have respect them and their opinion if you want people to respect yours and respect you. Calling people names is toxic and has no place here. If you would like to continue acting childishly you can do it on a different website or just keep your negative opinion of others to yourself.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Nintendo got their support when players purchased Wiis and Super Smash Bros. Brawl in order to be able to play Project M. I realize that not everyone obtained the game legally; however, the same can be said for other Nintendo games that are shared online. Furthermore, let's not forget the ways in which Nintendo does not support us.

For some reason, Nintendo supports and enhances competitive Pokémon but has a strong stance against competitive Smash Bros. Why should consumers support a company's decisions that adversely affects their beliefs and desires?

Uh...Pokemon isn't as focused as Smash, yeah, VGC and all, but Pokemon currently suffers power creep

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Uh...Pokemon isn't as focused as Smash, yeah, VGC and all, but Pokemon currently suffers power creep

True, true.... but still, the competitive support is well..... there as it is

 

[Cutie Gwen]

True, true.... but still, the competitive support is well..... there as it is

Smash has been getting support too, PM, not so much, but it's that Nintendo can't acknowledge it for law reasons or something

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Smash has been getting support too, PM, not so much, but it's that Nintendo can't acknowledge it for law reasons or something

Yeah I know, but the support seems more... obvious (for a lack of a better term ) for Pokemon rather than Smash Bros.

I suppose its better than nothing XD

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Yeah I know, but the support seems more... obvious (for a lack of a better term ) for Pokemon rather than Smash Bros.

I suppose its better than nothing XD

probably because people won't complain how competitive pokemon isn't like it was in 2001 amiright?

 

[HalcyonDays]

First of all, you're saying it's a crime that I like Smash 4 better than Project M, is that it?
Second of all, I never said I don't respect the competitive scene.
Third of all, the Smash community is also a place for casuals, not just competitive.
Fourth of all, why do you care so much anyways?

I think what he's getting at is that your initial post:

"I'm not surprised at all about this. I'm having too much fun with Smash 4 to care about the future of Project M."

Is worded in a way that, to someone who has just received some rather gloomy news, might seem as if you're merely fanning the flames of the situation. To someone with this viewpoint, you coming in and saying this all of a sudden isn't really helping. It's essentially going, "Haw haw, Smash 4 was a better game anyways. Too bad, PM players."

I know this isn't what you're saying, but it might be how others interpret it. Especially through the fog of negativity that's going on surrounding this news.

Statements like this can only make tensions rise. Exercising a little tact while someone else is going through a low point can help the situation by at least helping keep tensions to a minimum.

 

[Tmathh]

If the original content in PM was any good they probably would buy it. As it is, Melee HD would be a much better idea.

i highly disagree. melee was a beautiful accident. Nintendo wouldn't modify it anyway. some mite says that's a good thing but its not. a 14 year old fighting game with 6 playable tournament characters is quite dated. i love melee and its still good but PM just has more to offer as a competitive fighting game

 

[NotaSkeleton]

Has Nintendo even contacted VGBC(or any other mainstream Smash streamer) regarding streaming PM? If not, why worry about it?
Honestly, I think you're shooting yourselves in the foot here. I'm a big fan of PM. I mainly followed VGBC to watch Xanadu and I know I'm not alone. You guys lost yourselves a follower.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Nintendo got their support when players purchased Wiis and Super Smash Bros. Brawl in order to be able to play Project M. I realize that not everyone obtained the game legally; however, the same can be said for other Nintendo games that are shared online. Furthermore, let's not forget the ways in which Nintendo does not support us.

For some reason, Nintendo supports and enhances competitive Pokémon but has a strong stance against competitive Smash Bros. Why should consumers support a company's decisions that adversely affects their beliefs and desires?

There aren't getting support from Brawl at all. If anything the game supports not really being with Nintendo at all. Nintendo will support anything official like they did at APEX with set-ups. PM is not directly made by then Jesse the problem.

Also pokemon is run by the pokemon company, not nintendo directly.

 

[G-Rated]

When does tourney locater stream?

Thursdays

 

[hype machine]

Thursdays

But yesterday was Thursday ;(

 

[LeadRod]

This is kinda bull**** guys. You're reasons are legit but it doesn't change the fact that you are essentially alienating and abandoning a real part of the smash community. I'm disappointed in you guys.

 

[Pokechao]

I like how everyone overlooked the fact that the PMDT isn't the ones gaining money off PM streaming, its going to whoever is streaming it.
So in other words, the PMDT basically did this for free.

It falls under the same as flash games like SSF2 and Crusade, and yet both of those aren't being afraid of C@D

If anything it should be the streamer getting in trouble and not the PMDT for making money off that. The PMDT worked hard for us and yet now everybody who has some petty personal issue against PM wants to try paint them as targets.

Great ****ing community you guys got here.

 

[LimitCrown]

This is kinda bull**** guys. You're reasons are legit but it doesn't change the fact that you are essentially alienating and abandoning a real part of the smash community. I'm disappointed in you guys.

Would you rather have GimR risk facing legal action?

 

[Pokechao]

Oh yeah one more thing. To those who say mods shouldn't be given the spotlight over the original product. Well I guess we should trash Team Fortress 2, and while we're at it lets piss on CounterStrike.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

But yesterday was Thursday ;(

Melee milwaukee will mostly likely stream PM this Sunday.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

I like how everyone overlooked the fact that the PMDT isn't the ones gaining money off PM streaming, its going to whoever is streaming it.
So in other words, the PMDT basically did this for free.

It falls under the same as flash games like SSF2 and Crusade, and yet both of those aren't being afraid of C@D

If anything it should be the streamer getting in trouble and not the PMDT. The PMDT worked hard for us and yet now everybody who has some petty personal issue against PM wants to try paint them as targets.

Great ****ing community you guys got here.

They aren't afraid of a C@D because Nintendo allowed them to use their characters... lel