VGBootCamp: Regarding Project M

[xpnet]

It's not Toxic, it's the correct thing to do.

He has concerns of legal issues. Create a new channel, he is popular enough on his own to create a 100% legal following.

I believe he can stand on his own feet, he did lots of work and people will follow him.. but he needs to make the divide.

The Brand he created was based on something he now believes to illegal. Start new and stop generating revenue from grey areas. It's the right thing to do

Thinking anything otherwise is just excuses.

#stepupsmashon

 

[Berble]

He does have the choice to give them a refund, but again, not going to happen. It is clear that this is being treated as a business first and foremost. I am not suggesting that that is a bad thing, to be clear. I am just stating the obvious.

If people subscribed for the implicit obligation of Vgbootcamp to continue streaming the game that they subscribed for, they are going to accuse Gimr of taking their money and running.

when you sub to vgbc you're supporting the whole channel not just pm. pm players should know that their game was becoming increasingly more risky to stream with nintendo getting involved with smash and in general because its a mod.

 

[Biocola]

This is sad, but i can see why.

 

[Ace55]

EDIT: Oh, and in case you forgot, PM is a MOD, not an official game.

This sentiment always hurts me. Realistically, melee is the competitive gem in the smash bros. franchise. Even if you don't agree with that than at least it has the most loyal and fanatical following, there is a reason for that.

Now we finally have a game build on the foundation of melee, made for competitive smash by competitive smashers. And you're dismissing it because it wasn't developed by an official game company. I just really don't understand the appeal to authority. Competitively Brawl and Smash4 are a joke to PM, who cares if Nintendo was directly involved?

 

[SmashBro99]

Yay, more focus on actual Smash games!

 

[DavemanCozy]

It saddens me to hear that Project M will be cut. I'm not even an avid PM player, so I can not imagine how the fans must feel.

It's a shame that legal complications are involved in Project M. The community came very far and made it a popular success despite its status as a mod. It sucks to see all that hard work now being forced back to grassroots.

I hope that, in the foresee-able future, Project M and the dev team can reach some agreement with Nintendo. If these fanmade flash games get their booth at Apex, why can't Project M have their moment too?

 

[Joe73191]

Honestly, you can be like every fighting game community in existence an still play the game you like. Every fighting game series drastically changes between games. People who like older games...play the older games. There's nothing wrong with that. But to demand that another mode be created just for you, which would take a lot of time and effort seems really greedy to me. A man worked to almost literal death for a game and your response is "you haven't worked hard enough?" I'm even shocked that such a opinion can exist.

Then why can't nintendo leave PM alone. Either they should make something like or they should leave it alone. They shouldn't however say "Well we don't care that you like this, we are going to prevent you from watching it or having tournaments oh and we're not going to make anything like it either." If nintendo doesn't want to make a mode for the PM crowd then they shouldn't be hurting the PM community.

In your world I'm driven away with nothing to compensate me. In your world the PM people are basically told "go shove off, we don't want you here." Is that what you want, for the PM people to have nothing? To be forced to play something else, to be driven from the community. What if someone said smash4 shouldn't exist? It is the same thing for the PM people when you say PM shouldn't exist. I am deeply hurt that such opinions can be real.

 

[Malkasaur]

This sentiment always hurts me. Realistically, melee is the competitive gem in the smash bros. franchise. Even if you don't agree with that than at least it has the most loyal and fanatical following, there is a reason for that.

Now we finally have a game build on the foundation of melee, made for competitive smash by competitive smashers. And you're dismissing it because it wasn't developed by an official game company. I just really don't understand the appeal to authority. Competitively Brawl and Smash4 are a joke to PM, who cares if Nintendo was directly involved?

What the hell does Melee being "competitive gem in the smash bros. franchise" have to do with what I said. While I agree with this, it has NOTHING TO DO with what I said. My point in saying that PM is a mod and not an official game is that I want people to stop and realize how stupid they're acting.

 

[Ggjeed]

Ignorant, if I do say so myself. PM has done so much for the fans, much more than Nintendo could ever do with Smash.

It's not necessarily what they could do FOR smash. It's what they could do to KILL VGBC if they saw fit. This is not to gain nintendo's approval, it's to avoid their wrath. Any legal action could mean folding.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Then why can't nintendo leave PM alone

They aren't doing anything you dimwit! If you really think this is Nintendo's doing, can I have whatever you're smoking? As to why Smash isn't made with the competitive scene in mind, it's because as much as we all hate to admit it, the casual fans outnumber the competitive fans. By a lot.

 

[Hellrazor]

What the hell does Melee being "competitive gem in the smash bros. franchise" have to do with what I said. While I agree with this, it has NOTHING TO DO with what I said. My point in saying that PM is a mod and not an official game is that I want people to stop and realize how stupid they're acting.

PM being a mod doesn't really mean a whole lot. The content it contains does, however.

PM has its own avid community. It combines the best of Melee and Brawl mechanics. The fans want to see PM thrive just like Nintendo wants to see Sm4sh thrive, and also just like the Melee fans who enjoy seeing Melee thrive. "Mod" is just a title. It carries no weight. PM is its own entity and should be respected as such. The question we've all actually cared about is whether or not there are actually companies who want PM to be stifled lest they take legal action for whatever they think they can against it.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Urrgh. I ****ing despise Smash 4 for this. I despise it on principle. Nintendo/Sakurai have a perfect, pristine fighting game legacy IN THE PALM OF THEIR HANDS and they choose to spit on it in favour of casuals. Hell - Technical depth didn't stop people playing Melee. Hell - Just take Smash 4. Re-release it in a while with an "Advanced Edition" option that lets you fix the dumb ledge mechanics, put wave-motion back in and generally un**** the game. I'd concede the loss of L-Cancelling as frankly it's false depth. But the movement and recovery stuff is absolutely key and their point blank refusal is naught but betrayal of the only portion of their fan base that cares.

Man, and here I thought the Smash fanbase couldn't keep popping up such toxic players, and here we get an example that represents the spoiled, self-pitying consumer archetype in one package. Ugh.
You don't even know why you are blaming Sakurai and Nintendo since they had nothing to do with this decision. And the general consensus is that Smash 4 is a fine game as it is, it doesn't need to be "fixed" (read: tailored towards your personal needs). So please, spare us the drama and don't tell us that you poor, orphaned fans have been "betrayed" just because they have adjusted the game mechanics over time and they don't meet your Highness's expectations. They haven't wronged you as far as we know but people like you simply want to pretend that they always owe you something and can't resist the temptation to victimize yourself. But hey, if you were fishing for pity, you got mine:

Spoiler

 

[Eionio]

This is some Grade A sellout bull**** man. I really didn't expect this from someone people looked up to in the community like GimR. Way to stomp on your most dedicated fans.

 

[Alternative]

Why is Melee still getting backed so much and PM is getting turned away? Melee is a static game. It will never be updated. It will never be balanced. It will never be changed. PM is constantly trying to balance characters, balance stages, and provide an overall competitive game that works. If the Nintendo plan for Smash is not competitive play, and we are competitive players, why are some of us turning down something that has to potential to be the best competitive smash game ever conceived? If they don't want to make a competitive game, we should. Realize that I'm not saying that I don't think that there is room for every smash game to shine, I'm just saying that PM might be our only chance for a truly balanced Smash game.

 

[Joe73191]

If nintendo couldn't threaten to sue than none of this would be happening so no matter how you look at it, it IS 100% nintendo's fault. If Apex was not scared of nintendo and if VGBC was not scared of nintendo PM would not have been driven from us the way it has. Nintendo is at fault no matter how you slice it, even if they said nothing to anybody it is still the fear of nintendo that is doing it so they are absolutely to blame.

If nintendo doesn't like PM they should make something like to show support for the PM fans, but the fact that they don't shows their true colors. I'm sad that VGBC has to do this but I don't blame GimR, nor will I criticize him for the decision. I don't like the decision, but that doesn't mean I don't like GimR. GimR is great and I am still going to support VGBC's Melee content. Nintendo is who I blame and who I will criticize for this type of action, it isn't GimR's fault, it's nintendo's.

 

[N00B64]

"I feel likd its a slap i. The face to sakurai"

Sakurai butcher his game for ghe sole purpose of nutering people and you are worried about a slap in the face?
Do you suffere from stockholm syndrom or somethig?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

If nintendo couldn't threaten to sue than none of this would be happening so no matter how you look at it, it IS 100% nintendo's fault. If Apex was not scared of nintendo and if VGBC was not scared of nintendo PM would not have been driven from us the way it has. Nintendo is at fault no matter how you slice it, even if they said nothing to anybody it is still the fear of nintendo that is doing it so they are absolutely to blame.

If nintendo doesn't like PM they should make something like to show support for the PM fans, but the fact that they don't shows their true colors. I'm sad that VGBC has to do this but I don't blame GimR, nor will I criticize him for the decision. I don't like the decision, but that doesn't mean I don't like GimR. GimR is great and I am still going to support VGBC's Melee content. Nintendo is who I blame and who I will criticize for this type of action, it isn't GimR's fault, it's nintendo's.

Nintendo wants to appeal to the casual crowd who outnumber the competitive, again, Nintendo can take PM down in an instant, so if they hate it, why scare streamers instead of getting rid of it?

 

[Inquirer]

Too many lawyers and public relations experts in here.

 

[Angel of death patrick]

Really a shame, That what i most enyojed out of vgbc and now that its gone.... BibleThump

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

If nintendo couldn't threaten to sue than none of this would be happening so no matter how you look at it, it IS 100% nintendo's fault. If Apex was not scared of nintendo and if VGBC was not scared of nintendo PM would not have been driven from us the way it has. Nintendo is at fault no matter how you slice it, even if they said nothing to anybody it is still the fear of nintendo that is doing it so they are absolutely to blame.

If nintendo doesn't like PM they should make something like to show support for the PM fans, but the fact that they don't shows their true colors. I'm sad that VGBC has to do this but I don't blame GimR, nor will I criticize him for the decision. I don't like the decision, but that doesn't mean I don't like GimR. GimR is great and I am still going to support VGBC's Melee content. Nintendo is who I blame and who I will criticize for this type of action, it isn't GimR's fault, it's nintendo's.

So you succumbed to the mob mentality and decided to (mis)blame Nintendo on this one based on absolutely no evidence at all despite having no hand in this? Man, are you thick, how do you even function?

You don't have nothing to base this claim of so what you are basically doing is creating your own lies because they fit with your version of the story. Making up slander for the sake of supporting your argument is just wrong. Hell, what you are saying is that it's 100% their fault for people fearing them, may as well blame them for existing in the first place.
I don't know what's even sadder, the misplaced anger in your confusion or you believing the lie you just fabricated and preaching it as the truth.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

So you succumbed to the mob mentality and decided to (mis)blame Nintendo on this one based on absolutely no evidence at all despite having no hand in this? Man, are you thick, how do you even function?

You don't have nothing to base this claim of so what you are basically doing is creating your own lies because they fit with your version of the story. Making up slander for the sake of supporting your argument is just wrong. Hell, what you are saying is that it's 100% their fault for people fearing them, may as well blame them for existing in the first place.

The problem I personally had with PM was the toxic and ungrateful community, this guy only helps my argument, not caring about facts and saying the alternative games suck as they don't cater to them

 

[Hellrazor]

So you succumbed to the mob mentality and decided to (mis)blame Nintendo on this one based on absolutely no evidence at all despite having no hand in this? Man, are you thick, how do you even function?

You don't have nothing to base this claim of so what you are basically doing is creating your own lies because they fit with your version of the story. Making up slander for the sake of supporting your argument is just wrong. Hell, what you are saying is that it's 100% their fault for people fearing them, may as well blame them for existing in the first place.

I like how your posts quickly degenerate into mindless flaming. Keep cultivating that bloody edge, bro.

I'd honestly like to know who the **** else has the ****s to give about PM. I seriously don't know who else would care enough to take someone to court over it.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

I like how your posts quickly degenerate into mindless flaming. Keep cultivating that bloody edge, bro.

I'd honestly like to know who the **** else has the ****s to give about PM. I seriously don't know who else would care enough to take someone to court over it.

Zero tolerance for fools today has me on edge, bro.

 

[Designs]

Yay, more focus on actual Smash games!

The whole counter that PM isn't a real game is absurd. It has its own custom engine, follows community lead updates, and addresses balance issues better than Nintendo. Being not for profit they have more creative expression. This is the best version of cumulitave SSB IMO.

 

[Hellrazor]

Zero tolerance for fools today, bro.

Tends to happen by the end of the week.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Tends to happen by the end of the week.

Sundays are days for relaxation though. Wait, wasn't that something in the bible

 

[Joe73191]

I'm sorry should I just bow down and claim "I love whatever game nintendo makes because they are all-knowing and my preferences mean nothing.... all hail nintendo." Sorry, I'm not that guy. I don't have to like a game if I prefer another. If I don't like a game I don't have to be grateful that it was made. Gratuity comes from joy not sorrow. I support the games I have a preference for.

Do I wish nintendo would make a PM styled smash4? You bet I do! No shame! Do I wish that there were no legal hazards that could stop people from enjoying PM? You bet I do. I have no shame in the things I want. Will it happen? Probably not, but I can wish and dream all I want. No one can stop that and no one has a right to.

 

[mimgrim]

I don't know what's worse. The people ****ting on GimR for his business decision. The people ****ting on Project M because of some stupid personal gripe with the game being a mod. The people ****ting on Smash 4 because it is "worse" and is "stealing" streams. Or the people propagating this one unit bull****. If you are unhappy with GimR's business decision then unsub, there done. If you are unhappy with a game then don't play the ****ing game, there done. If you believe in this one unit bull**** then you are delusional.

Good grief.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I'm sorry should I just bow down and claim "I love whatever game nintendo makes because they are all-knowing and my preferences mean nothing.... all hail nintendo." Sorry, I'm not that guy. I don't have to like a game if I prefer another. If I don't like a game I don't have to be grateful that it was made. Gratuity comes from joy not sorrow. I support the games I have a preference for.

Do I wish nintendo would make a PM styled smash4? You bet I do! No shame! Do I wish that there were no legal hazards that could stop people from enjoying PM? You bet I do. I have no shame in the things I want. Will it happen? Probably not, but I can wish and dream all I want. No one can stop that and no one has a right to.

You are basically doing this "NINTENDO DIDN'T DO WHAT I WANT, THEREFORE, EVERYTHING WRONG WITH THE WORLD IS THERE FAULT!" Sm4sh's roster is immensely disappointing to me, didn't want much characters, got none I wanted, however, I can still enjoy the game because even though it didn't cater to me, it's still enjoyable. Get my point? And you need to learn to use this nifty thing called 'quoting' as people will know who the **** you're talking to!

 

[LimitCrown]

The whole counter that PM isn't a real game is absurd. It has its own custom engine, follows community lead updates, and addresses balance issues better than Nintendo. Being not for profit they have more creative expression. This is the best version of cumulitave SSB IMO.

It doesn't have its own custom engine. It's a modification of Brawl's engine created for the purpose of making the game more similar to Melee.

 

[Lord Horatio]

The **** does Nintendo got to do with this? LOL

It's Nintendo's policy that puts PM in the murky legal territory which causes VGBC to want to distance themselves from it. If PM was considered a legitimate mod by Nintendo, VGBC wouldn't be doing this.

 

[Snipnigth]

Its true that the game is has illegal issues but its product of nintendo not hearing what their fans whant, brawl was a total fail for a lot of people, they felt really disapointed, smash 4 been a new game still has a lot to discover, but i bet ppl where waiting for something more in the lines of melee (awsome combos epic comeback fast gameplay), but nintendo dosent hear their fans they just laugh and do whatever they whant.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Its true that the game is has illegal issues but its product of nintendo not hearing what their fans whant, brawl was a total fail for a lot of people, they felt really disapointed, smash 4 been a new game still has a lot to discover, but i bet ppl where waiting for something more in the lines of melee (awsome combos epic comeback fast gameplay), but nintendo dosent hear their fans they just laugh and do whatever they whant.

Sakurai said he believes smash brothers as a franchise has no future if they focus on the competitive side, who's actually in the minority

 

[memk]

Ignorant, if I do say so myself. PM has done so much for the fans, much more than Nintendo could ever do with Smash.

I'm sorry. Who made Melee? Oh yea Nintendo. Now lets see what's PM based off of? Oh yea Melee. Who made Smash a series? Oh yea Nintendo.

I'm sorry Nintendo has done more than you think. You wish everything was like melee but look at other fighters. None of them have the same engine. They all operate differently. It's called smart business practices.

As a developer you'd want every game to feel new and fresh. Not the same old thing while just adding some characters and changing up the balance here and there.

 

[memk]

The competitive scene may be strong, but it's not exactly entitled to dictating the developers.

That's like saying Street fighter 3rd strike should be the way to play Street Fighter forever. Yea except developers make things different for a reason.

Also Why would you hate on Sakurai/Nintendo (the people who gave us Melee) when PM wouldn't even exist if Smash/Melee weren't created?

 

[Designs]

It doesn't have its own custom engine. It's a modification of Brawl's engine created for the purpose of making the game more similar to Melee.

....thus making it a Custom engine. Custom doesn't mean from scratch, merely meaning developed from a draw of pre-existing components.

 

[memk]

Played Melee for 10 years and counting. Not supporting VGBC until PM is back.

Ok be a baby about it.

 

[Heefe]

Overreaction much?
A community that revolves around a game series comprised of several Nintendo properties, who happens to be developed by people who work with Nintendo. Since you are here, I assume you like or liked Smash at a certain point yet adopt an anti-Nintendo attitude whilst still wanting to play with their characters and games. Go figure.
And it's not like they have done anything "evil" to us as of late, but you probably simply wanted to fancy yourself a martyr standing against the evil company known as Nintendo and Sakurai, a guy who is as bad as Hitler and probably hates puppies too. But you want to play their games. Huh.

Nintendo doesn't care about the competitive community... they just want their share of money just like with all the let's player stuff.

Most people have absolutely no benefits from Nintendo's support except the streamers. That's why I say the Smash scene was better off before Nintendo got involved. At least nobody had to think about PM being legal or not.

 

[memk]

I'm sorry should I just bow down and claim "I love whatever game nintendo makes because they are all-knowing and my preferences mean nothing.... all hail nintendo." Sorry, I'm not that guy. I don't have to like a game if I prefer another. If I don't like a game I don't have to be grateful that it was made. Gratuity comes from joy not sorrow. I support the games I have a preference for.

Do I wish nintendo would make a PM styled smash4? You bet I do! No shame! Do I wish that there were no legal hazards that could stop people from enjoying PM? You bet I do. I have no shame in the things I want. Will it happen? Probably not, but I can wish and dream all I want. No one can stop that and no one has a right to.

You support those games huh? But who made the games they were based off of? Oh right nintendo. If you don't like something don't complain just don't play it. Do the whole world a favor.

 

[Boardwalk]

everyone in here complaining about about nintendo or gimr are just ignorant children who do not know how the world works.
instead of calling it pm think about it as brawl 2.
its not fair to nintendo for an outside party to take their ideas, modify them a little bit and call it a different game and make money off of it. it is copyrighted material. pm gets away with it for now because they do not directly profit off the selling the files to modify the game. if nintendo starts to think that pm is pulling away potential profit from sm4sh, they will not hesitate to shut it down. if there was some way for nintendo to endorse/ purchase pm that could benefit both parties. gimr is making a heads up play by avoiding a potential train wreck. we want nintendo on our side even if they do not want to design games based off of competitive merit.