VGBootCamp: Regarding Project M

[JayTheUnseen]

Personally, I believe the Project M developers possess the skill set required to make a stellar Smash inspired game that could be sold.

 

[Snipnigth]

Most characters are perfectly balanced, I don't play Falco or know anyone that does, but I do know he's supposed to play differently this time

I play him a lot and he is laking not much but he is laking, i men he is slow on grown in brawl and melee he used lasers to make up for that, in smash 4 since he has almost a useless laser he must play more defensively and go for punishes, but it really hard to punish with his speed and his not so reliable up smash and jabs. I agree the game is really balanced but some characters need a bit more. Samus is anothe case, her 2 jabs wont even combo with one another and her bomb dont even explode on contact anymore (well they do but only for like 1 sec before they actually explode on their own).

 

[yayjayyyy]

BUT pm.... CRIES 5EVER

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

Well, at least GimR finally had the courage to stand up and say the truth.

Yes, he can get in trouble and he considered that starting with a clean slate is the best option for his stream to get a full partnership with Nintendo instead of a lawsuit. It's understandable, really.

However, the backstabbing at the PM fans back and the fact that VGBC will not even keep the older PM videos and will instead purge them out is simply repulsive. This is not how someone should treat their fans and subscribers. That is not understandable.


More importantly, let's look at the real culprit. Nintendo. After all, GimR is not purging PM off his stream because he likes Smash 4 more, he's doing it because he's afraid of losing money via a lawsuit instead of getting it with partnerships.

Story time kids. Let's look at a earlier example of Nintendo's helping hand to one of their games competitive community. Let's look at Pokémon.

Now, as you might know, Competitive pokémon started with a grass roots community that wanted to sic their best mons at other people with mons to see who really was the very best.
That eventually led to PC simulators that could make a high level battle team ready in minutes for people to play online against other people all over the world.

Meanwhile, Nintendo along with Game Freak did their own tournaments, with different rules from the online community. Still, the games didn't leave much room for great deviations in rulesets, but the existing rules still were enough to give birth to a small strife in the community.

Cue Ruby and Sapphire. Nintendo announces that the official tournaments will be run in double battle format. The now solid Online community stayed focused in single battle modes.

Nintendo kept their format to this day, as did the Online community.

Currently, most players ignore the official tournaments. (Can't really blame 'em) While some players can't stand the standard online rulesets.

The moral of the story? Nintendo and Game Freak singlehandedly split a community for no discernible reason.

This is happening again. Sure, the Smash community was never known for being "One Unit". However, how far will people let Nintendo exert it's influence, especially after it tried to shut down Melee at EVO?

How far will people realize that this community survived for years without their support, rising to the level of other fighting games sponsored by their companies such as Street Fighter in the process?

Do I need to remind you that during the Apex 2015 Venue Crisis, Nintendo barely moved a finger to help? If they actually did anything to help.


If someone thinks that trading the countless hours of effort and dedication from the PM staff are worth less than an old Splatoon and some New 3DS Ads and some money for a few people, go ahead, cut PM from your streams.

If you don't think this is a fair exchange, let PM in as a side event.
Record the matches. Help someone stream them. Praise their work. Spread the word on which streams have PM so that the players can watch matches. Have an Youtube account to hold them. Find new tech. Play the game.


Warning: Wall of text above.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Confirmed people are blowing this out of proportion:
http://www.twitch.tv/meleeitonme/c/6053576?t=1h6m20s

 

[GrandHc]

Well, at least GimR finally had the courage to stand up and say the truth.

Yes, he can get in trouble and he considered that starting with a clean slate is the best option for his stream to get a full partnership with Nintendo instead of a lawsuit. It's understandable, really.

However, the backstabbing at the PM fans back and the fact that VGBC will not even keep the older PM videos and will instead purge them out is simply repulsive. This is not how someone should treat their fans and subscribers. That is not understandable.


More importantly, let's look at the real culprit. Nintendo. After all, GimR is not purging PM off his stream because he likes Smash 4 more, he's doing it because he's afraid of losing money via a lawsuit instead of getting it with partnerships.

Story time kids. Let's look at a earlier example of Nintendo's helping hand to one of their games competitive community. Let's look at Pokémon.

Now, as you might know, Competitive pokémon started with a grass roots community that wanted to sic their best mons at other people with mons to see who really was the very best.
That eventually led to PC simulators that could make a high level battle team ready in minutes for people to play online against other people all over the world.

Meanwhile, Nintendo did their own tournaments, with different rules from the online community. Still, the games didn't leave much room for great deviations in rulesets, but the existing rules still were enough to give birth to a small strife in the community.

Cue Ruby and Sapphire. Nintendo announces that the official tournaments will be run in double battle format. The now solid Online community stayed focused in single battle modes.

Nintendo kept their format to this day, as did the Online community.

Currently, most players ignore the official tournaments. (Can't really blame 'em) While some players can't stand the standard online rulesets.

The moral of the story? Nintendo singlehandedly split a community for no discernible reason.

This is happening again. Sure, the Smash community was never known for being "One Unit". However, how far will people let Nintendo exert it's influence, especially after it tried to shut down Melee at EVO?

How far will people realize that this community survived for years without their support, rising to the level of other fighting games sponsored by their companies such as Street Fighter in the process?

Do I need to remind you that during the Apex 2015 Venue Crisis, Nintendo barely moved a finger to help? If they actually did anything to help.


If someone thinks that trading the countless hours of effort and dedication from the PM staff are worth less than an old Splatoon and some New 3DS Ads and some money for a few people, go ahead, cut PM from your streams.

If you don't think this is a fair exchange, let PM in as a side event.
Record the matches. Help someone stream them. Praise their work. Spread the word on which streams have PM so that the players can watch matches. Have an Youtube account to hold them. Find new tech. Play the game.


Warning: Wall of text above.

Nintendo does not enforce this Gamefreak does and several Smogon players, to which you are referring to in the community split, plays and supports VGC. The only person to truly stir up this community split was Verlisify as no one else complained.

 

[Best Asura ARAD]

If nothing else, do we know yet where all the PM vids VGBC had will be archived?

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

Nintendo does not enforce this Gamefreak does and several Smogon players, to which you are referring to in the community split, plays and supports VGC. The only person to truly stir up this community split was Verlisify as no one else complained.

Fair point.
I know Smogon is mostly cool and more than accepting about VGC and it's players (a lot of VGC Winners are Smogon Members), despite their focus in Single battle rulesets, but I didn't know about the rest of the community's opinion about the VGC ruleset and I know there is a rift between both types of players.

 

[HalcyonDays]

It's a mod of a real game, but it's still loved which is cool (hell I think it's cool), but still.

This is my opinion, but I think the legitimacy of whether or not a game is a 'real' game is more complex than simply whether or not it carries the official seal from Nintendo.

It's true, P:M is a mod of an official smash game. It's one of the very first things they say on the P:M website.

At the same time, however, I feel that a game's true legitimacy lies behind whether or not it has fans that actively follow and enjoy it.

P:M has, despite its mod status, managed to create a community full of dedicated followers, and it garners almost the same type of enjoyment that people would get when playing, or even watching Melee.

The fanbase is what determines which games survive, and which ones fall into obscurity.

Ultimately, people play games to have fun. This is the ultimate reason for why games exist.

If P:M has managed to create an entire following of gamers who have fun, and even reach a level of attention to make it to Apex 2014 as one of the most hype events to watch, along with all the various things that come with it, such as a developing metagame, tourneys with an actual pot, and things of that nature, then I'd say that P:M has at least achieved the bare minimum prerequisites to call itself a 'game.'

Is it an 'official' game? No, until Nintendo decides to adopt it, it isn't.

Does it fulfill the requirements to be considered a game? Is it fun? Do people enjoy playing it? In the same way they might enjoy Melee, Sm4sh, etc?

In my opinion, yes, it is. And yes, people do. Mod or not, it's still a beloved game that has become it's own creature, with it's own ecosystem in a sense., unique to that of Melee, Brawl, 64 and Sm4sh.

 

[W.A.C.]

I've thought a lot about this and have come to the conclusion that this decision was the best decision they could've made for the future of the company, but a very bad decision for the Smash community. The Smash community is more divided than ever right now and most people here would rather see Project M stay relevant than to see an increase of Nintendo's involvement with the competitive scene. If VG Boot Camp could at least partially reconsider their stance to where the existing Project M videos are left alone, that would be great. There's a lot of great competitive videos for Project M and I would hate to see them get lost because of cowardice.

Project M is one of the main reasons why VG Boot Camp became as big as it is today and is a huge reason why GimR is able to do this for a living. Before ever covering that game to such an extent, you should've evaluated the risks involved and commit to your game plan unless your channel is receiving threats of some sort to where it's absolutely necessary to pull support for Project M. As of right now, it stands that Project M was used to grow the channel, but abandoned shortly after having the honor of being the primary channel to cover Apex 2015. Now that your channel is so huge, you don't really need Project M anymore. Not to mention the game's popularity is at a decline thanks to Smash 4 and the mixed reception of 3.5, so this seemed like a perfect time to abandon the community that made the channel so successful.

Any respect I previously had for GimR has been lost. I hope another channel with leaders who have a set of functional testicles eventually becomes more popular than VGBC, because I no longer want to see your channel do better than everyone else. My statement may be cruel, but nowhere near as devastating as the future fate of Project M if every major tournament and major competitive Smash channel abandons support. I do not want to see this game fade into irrelevance. Project M 4.0 could revitalize the general public's interest to the game, but the Project M ship won't have much of an opportunity to float again if the support beams are removed.

 

[Best Asura ARAD]

Personally, I believe the Project M developers possess the skill set required to make a stellar Smash inspired game that could be sold.

I do know that some of the devs have dipped their feet into Rivals of Aether a little bit, if that's anything.

 

[NinthWonder]

I can't believe they're actually taking down old videos.

 

[SmashBro99]

Any respect I previously had for GimR has been lost. I hope another channel with leaders who have a set of functional testicles eventually becomes more popular than VGBC, because I no longer want to see your channel do better than everyone else. My statement may be cruel, but nowhere near as devastating as the future fate of Project M if every major tournament and major competitive Smash channel abandons support. I do not want to see this game fade into irrelevance. Project M 4.0 could revitalize the general public's interest to the game, but the Project M ship won't have much of an opportunity to float again if the support beams are removed.

Lose the respect of a random on Smashboards or not get into legal **** with Nintendo...well it's their loss I guess xD

 

[cLUCK]

"Project M's uncertain legality has the potential to put the other goals of VGBC for the wider Smash community in jeopardy."

and

"it's too risky to invest a significant portion of our time and money into a game that could damage our business with a copyright strike at any time."

Is a crock of ****.

Any game that you post at any time could earn you a copyright strike. The entire process of uploaded gameplay on YouTube is considered a "legal gray are." There are multiple games that cannot be uploaded to YouTube because companies will immediately strike any of them. You are obviously wimping out or folding under some form of pressure because normally you would never make a move like this without any validity. Are you gamers or a company? Let me give you a hint to help you establish the difference between the two. One uploads for fun, and the other for money. You may consider yourself a "small business" but I consider you nothing more than a medium to view gameplay. If you are going to stop supporting a major part of the community it is at least our right as consumers of your product to be upfront as to the reason why you are actually folding. I don't need excuses.

 

[MegaMango]

Let's be totally honest people...We KNEW this was coming. Now I was a PM player myself, until 3.5 and then I moved onto smash 4. I totally understand where GimR is coming from and I respect his discussion to do so. The scene is going more rapidly than it every has and Nintendo supporting Melee and Smash 4 is big for us. We can't just be a closed community anymore. I do respect PM players....most of them at least....I don't support those who are whining at GimR and Nintendo for this...When the entire MOD is changing the game nintendo spent so much time into just because people thought it sucked...Nintendo isn't going to just take that lightly when the scene is getting this big...I know it sounds harsh, but we knew this going into project M in the first place. I hope PM finds a way to keep going in the future. But please don't put hate towards GimR, Nintendo, Or anyone. Use this moment to find something new, some way to keep the game going on your own. VGBC was able to get the PM community this far, now it's up the community to keep it going. Best of luck to you guys.

I respectfully disagree with one of your statements.

I don't see how this was supposed to be expected, I mean, how is supporting a game that is no longer being supported by the makers a bad thing? For example, right now with Smash 4, Sakurai has stated that there will be no more character patches from here on out. A couple of years from now, once the Smash 4 scene matures, players will find mechanics that can be easily exploited for the worse, and overpowered characters/moves that should've been patched/nerfed, but weren't because the company has decided to stop supporting the game. What's wrong if the players of said game tweak things on their own? They don't gain a profit, hell, the players need to buy from Nintendo a digital copy of the game to actually play the tweaked version. If anything, it brings more attention to the scene and more profit for Nintendo just like PM did.

 

[MegaMango]

I really do not understand how or why they allow Brawl to be featured at tourneys when PM has a much bigger player base hence bringing more profit and possibly even more attention for all parties involved, including the company of Nintendo.

I mean, just replace Brawl with PM for pete's sake.

 

[MegaMango]

Lol at the people taking sumps on GimR now. Give me a break. It's his stream and his decision. If you don'upport it don't watch it bit that's not a reason to act like spoiled brats. PM community's true colors.

You're failing to see the general reaction of the whole community here. many Melee players are also seeing this as preposterous.

 

[MegaMango]

Well, at least GimR finally had the courage to stand up and say the truth.

Yes, he can get in trouble and he considered that starting with a clean slate is the best option for his stream to get a full partnership with Nintendo instead of a lawsuit. It's understandable, really.

However, the backstabbing at the PM fans back and the fact that VGBC will not even keep the older PM videos and will instead purge them out is simply repulsive. This is not how someone should treat their fans and subscribers. That is not understandable.


More importantly, let's look at the real culprit. Nintendo. After all, GimR is not purging PM off his stream because he likes Smash 4 more, he's doing it because he's afraid of losing money via a lawsuit instead of getting it with partnerships.

Story time kids. Let's look at a earlier example of Nintendo's helping hand to one of their games competitive community. Let's look at Pokémon.

Now, as you might know, Competitive pokémon started with a grass roots community that wanted to sic their best mons at other people with mons to see who really was the very best.
That eventually led to PC simulators that could make a high level battle team ready in minutes for people to play online against other people all over the world.

Meanwhile, Nintendo along with Game Freak did their own tournaments, with different rules from the online community. Still, the games didn't leave much room for great deviations in rulesets, but the existing rules still were enough to give birth to a small strife in the community.

Cue Ruby and Sapphire. Nintendo announces that the official tournaments will be run in double battle format. The now solid Online community stayed focused in single battle modes.

Nintendo kept their format to this day, as did the Online community.

Currently, most players ignore the official tournaments. (Can't really blame 'em) While some players can't stand the standard online rulesets.

The moral of the story? Nintendo and Game Freak singlehandedly split a community for no discernible reason.

This is happening again. Sure, the Smash community was never known for being "One Unit". However, how far will people let Nintendo exert it's influence, especially after it tried to shut down Melee at EVO?

How far will people realize that this community survived for years without their support, rising to the level of other fighting games sponsored by their companies such as Street Fighter in the process?

Do I need to remind you that during the Apex 2015 Venue Crisis, Nintendo barely moved a finger to help? If they actually did anything to help.


If someone thinks that trading the countless hours of effort and dedication from the PM staff are worth less than an old Splatoon and some New 3DS Ads and some money for a few people, go ahead, cut PM from your streams.

If you don't think this is a fair exchange, let PM in as a side event.
Record the matches. Help someone stream them. Praise their work. Spread the word on which streams have PM so that the players can watch matches. Have an Youtube account to hold them. Find new tech. Play the game.


Warning: Wall of text above.

How are you going to file a lawsuit over something that is not illegal? PM benefits all parties involved bringing more players to the scene, and it requires all players to support Nintendo by buying their product. I fail to see how a lawsuit will ever happen, especially seeing how common mods are in the gaming world.

 

[LimitCrown]

How are you going to file a lawsuit over something that is not illegal? PM benefits all parties involved bringing more players to the scene, and it requires all players to support Nintendo by buying their product. I fail to see how a lawsuit will ever happen, especially seeing how common mods are in the gaming world.

Project M doesn't really follow the requirements for it being fair use and it is basically copyright infringement. Nintendo would be justified for filing a C&D order whenever they decide to do so.

Also, just because Brawl is required doesn't necessarily mean that Nintendo certainly benefits from it.

 

[Vavv]

I really think the community could pull off an official SSBM-styled game with donations from the community. Is a totally different franchise always going to be out of the question? FaZe is doing it.

 

[Best Asura ARAD]

one thing that's really bugging me about the discussion on this is how people talk about making a completely fresh game. I'm not gonna say it shouldn't happen at all, quite frankly it could be a really good way to experiment with and flesh out a sort of smash subgenre with melee mechanics/speed, and there already IS at least one project like that in the works (RoA); it's clearly doable.
some of you guys tho...the way you're talking about it..."oh why didn't they just make their own game in the first place? they should just make a game" like....making a game from scratch is really time and resource consuming???? how do some of you just be like "oh just make a game guys it's simple"

 

[CaliburChamp]

I'm a project M fan as well. It makes sense why VGBootCamp had to leave Project M alone. It's too risky, I would of done the same thing. Why sacrfice all Smash Bros. game funding just for one fan modified version?
Project M will have to live on in the "underground scene." It can't be a mainstream game anymore.

 

[drewilliam]

What is wrong with allowing Smash 4 to take over?

Smash 4 is like Project M, but with less game mechanics, less stages, less 'fan service'. Project M caters directly to the fans. IDK who Smash 4 caters to… Nintendo just wants to cash in on the Smash craze

 

[Baby_Sneak]

It wouldn't visually resemble a Super Smash Bros. game, and the mod would still be using Brawl's engine except modified.

Nintendo is more concerned about their IPs since that's what represent their company. You can't sue someone for modifying a engine that they bought for you.

 

[Boomhound]

To anyone who has a problem with PM let me just point this out-

PM is the closest embodiment of the Smash community there is.

Nintendo wasn't always supportive of our scene and PM is a fan made attempt at creating a balanced Melee spec'd to live a longer lifespan.

It is grassroots, community driven and frequently patched.

I hope someone takes the risks that Gimr (understandably) can't.

 

[LimitCrown]

Nintendo is more concerned about their IPs since that's what represent their company. You can't sue someone for modifying a engine that they bought for you.

Nobody buys the engine that the game uses when they buy the game. Also, because it wouldn't look like Super Smash Bros., much fewer people would buy the game. Making a game is more difficult than what people seem to imply.

 

[WiiDude83]

I respectfully disagree with one of your statements.

I don't see how this was supposed to be expected, I mean, how is supporting a game that is no longer being supported by the makers a bad thing? For example, right now with Smash 4, Sakurai has stated that there will be no more character patches from here on out. A couple of years from now, once the Smash 4 scene matures, players will find mechanics that can be easily exploited for the worse, and overpowered characters/moves that should've been patched/nerfed, but weren't because the company has decided to stop supporting the game. What's wrong if the players of said game tweak things on their own? They don't gain a profit, hell, the players need to buy from Nintendo a digital copy of the game to actually play the tweaked version. If anything, it brings more attention to the scene and more profit for Nintendo just like PM did.

What I mean by excepted was after smash 4 came out, interest in PM started to die down and I noticed PM wasn't be streamed as often, especially after the Apex situation. I figured it was for legal reasons and I kind of figured something like this would happen in the future. SO it came as no surprise to me personally. And I never said it wasn't being supported, I only said interest was started to fade. Plus for streams, it is in that legal grey area as stated before, so if Nintendo were to start pulling out CaD, it could end badly if we keep building the game up. Again, I don't hate PM and I hope the community can think of something to get their game to work out in tournaments. Also, I would like to mention I'm trying to respectful in my post while you are doing the exact opposite. I can tell your bias in your statement and fanboying like that will get you nothing but ignored. Also, your statement is flawed in another aspect. VGbootcamp reached over 100,000 viewers on stream for smash 4 and melee, a number PM has never achieved. So saying it attracted more attention is not as sound as you might think. I'm a supporter of all games, But I'm not a supporter of those who don't have their facts straight

 

[Baby_Sneak]

Nobody buys the engine that the game uses when they buy the game. Also, because it wouldn't look like Super Smash Bros., much fewer people would buy the game. Making a game is more difficult than what people seem to imply.

The engine comes with the game, hence indirectly buying it. Also, project m&m could just put the models and textures in a custom variety pack for people to use, then it wouldn't be their fault if people used it.

 

[TheWozny]

Ignorant, if I do say so myself. PM has done so much for the fans, much more than Nintendo could ever do with Smash.

Yea! F*** the guys that created Smash Brothers and inspired Project M! They're terrible!

 

[Morbi]

Yea! F*** the guys that created Smash Brothers and inspired Project M! They're terrible!

That is a straw-man fallacy if I have ever seen one.

 

[TheWozny]

That is a straw-man fallacy if I have ever seen one.

It's true though. Everytime someone says, "Nintendo is terrible with competitive", must we remember who created these games? Hell, they JUST sponsored APEX. People need to give em a break. I'm not saying Smash 4 is Godly, but they sure put some fan things in there as much as ignorant people would like to admit it.

 

[dharper7]

darn, that sucks

 

[Th3 Ice King]

This is just pretty sad. I understand why having a small business in esports myself. There are a ton of potential things that could create an instant closure of your business. My heart goes out to the PM community as I know VGBC was huge for them. I still have faith that their place will be filled by someone else who is truly dedicated to the needs and desires of the PM community. They don't call it grassroots for no reason.

 

[MegaMango]

What I mean by excepted was after smash 4 came out, interest in PM started to die down and I noticed PM wasn't be streamed as often, especially after the Apex situation. I figured it was for legal reasons and I kind of figured something like this would happen in the future. SO it came as no surprise to me personally. And I never said it wasn't being supported, I only said interest was started to fade. Plus for streams, it is in that legal grey area as stated before, so if Nintendo were to start pulling out CaD, it could end badly if we keep building the game up. Again, I don't hate PM and I hope the community can think of something to get their game to work out in tournaments. Also, I would like to mention I'm trying to respectful in my post while you are doing the exact opposite. I can tell your bias in your statement and fanboying like that will get you nothing but ignored. Also, your statement is flawed in another aspect. VGbootcamp reached over 100,000 viewers on stream for smash 4 and melee, a number PM has never achieved. So saying it attracted more attention is not as sound as you might think. I'm a supporter of all games, But I'm not a supporter of those who don't have their facts straight

Ah, I see what you were trying to say now, thanks for the clarification. Oh, and it seems you may have misunderstood my point. I said: "If anything, it brings more attention to the scene and more profit for Nintendo just like PM did." What I mean by that is this: before any news of Smash 4 was even revealed, there was a point in time where Melee HEAVILY overshadowed the Brawl crowd. People slowly lost interest in Brawl and shifted back over to Melee. PM helped bring brawl into the spotlight (in a way); PM was kind of like an incentive that convinced players to replay Brawl or even re-purchase it (I'm included in that; I sold Brawl, and then purchased it again at Gamestop for PM). Eventually, in tourneys, PM would bring more players in than traditional Brawl which would increase profit for the venues. It's only natural that Smash 4 would get huge numbers of players and cause PM players to decrease, I mean, c'mon; it's a brand new game made directly by Nintendo that is available on two platforms. For example, I dropped all the games I was playing for weeks just to play Smash 4. I hope Smash 4 can stand the test of time and not become like what Brawl has become now... I mean, look at the number of players playing it at Apex... :[

Oh, and by the way, please don't baselessly call people fanboys; it's usually a term used disrespectfully. It's true I enjoy PM a lot, but my main game is Melee. Currently though, I'm dedicating more time to Smash 4 because I want to get really good at it. I really like what they did with some characters (Zelda and Link specifically), and I'm trying to figure out all of their quirks >.<

 

[LimitCrown]

The engine comes with the game, hence indirectly buying it. Also, project m&m could just put the models and textures in a custom variety pack for people to use, then it wouldn't be their fault if people used it.

With that logic, consumers technically "indirectly buy" anything else that is in the game. You can't claim that anyone who buys the game is the owner of the coding of the game.

 

[Ura]

About the whole "PM is lucky that Nintendo didn't C&D them" topic...

http://www.ssbwiki.com/Project_M#Response_from_Nintendo

Nintendo hasn't C&D them for a very good reason.....because they can't.

 

[LimitCrown]

About the whole "PM is lucky that Nintendo didn't C&D them" topic...

http://www.ssbwiki.com/Project_M#Response_from_Nintendo

Nintendo hasn't C&D them for a very good reason.....because they can't.

I will say that this portion of the article is incorrect and people use that court case to say that Nintendo can't do anything about Project M without paying attention to what is being said. The Game Genie is dissimilar to a mod of a game, so I don't understand why people think that case means that Project M is fine.

 

[Ura]

I will say that this portion of the article is incorrect and people use that court case to say that Nintendo can't do anything about Project M without paying attention to what is being said. The Game Genie is dissimilar to a mod of a game, so I don't understand why people think that case means that Project M is fine.

Via Wikipedia (because it's the most trustworthy site on the web )

Smith wrote that "Having paid Nintendo a fair return, the consumer may experiment with the product and create new variations of play, for personal enjoyment, without creating a derivative work."

The wording "derivative work" wouldn't really apply to PM seeing as the game is still technically Brawl only with Melee's mechanics added in albeit the addition of Roy and Mewtwo along with the stages and alt costumes added in. "May experiment with the product and create new variations of play, for personal enjoyment" really is what PM is all about. Their not trying to make profit or anything and they basically created the mod for Melee players (even players all alike) to enjoy. Well, that's my whole take on the issue at least.

 

[LimitCrown]

Via Wikipedia (because it's the most trustworthy site on the web )



The wording "derivative work" wouldn't really apply to PM seeing as the game is still technically Brawl only with Melee's mechanics added in albeit the addition of Roy and Mewtwo along with the stages and alt costumes added in. "May experiment with the product and create new variations of play, for personal enjoyment" really is what PM is all about. Their not trying to make profit or anything and they basically created the mod for Melee players (even players all alike) to enjoy. Well, that's my whole take on the issue at least.

Why wouldn't Project M count as a derivative work? You've already given examples of Project M's copyright infringement and Project M does much more than a Game Genie could do.

The Micro Star v. FormGen Inc. court case is a much better comparison.

 

[drsusredfish]

tourney locator on youtube still does P:M. Sethalon, the roy player, frequents these guys check it in place of VGBC for P:M gameplay.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuBhMqosgW-ECZjJZ9pv0Dg