Official Veterans Discussion

[The Smash Nerd II.0.]

Wolf can be replaced with Andross with a body. Enough laser-shooting, reflecting animals.

What, I mean why. We have him as a Assist Trophy. (the Star Fox for SNES one)

 

[KingCloud]

I would really like to see return

 

[Sid-cada]

We all know that Samus is returning, but what I want to know is what are everyone's thoughts on updating her to match her Samus Returns abilities?

Samus really could use a bit of an update, and this seems like as good of an excuse as any to update her majorly. The more action-orientated and speed focused game play seems to perfectly make her at least more viable, or at least interesting...

 

[Luminario]

We all know that Samus is returning, but what I want to know is what are everyone's thoughts on updating her to match her Samus Returns abilities?

Samus really could use a bit of an update, and this seems like as good of an excuse as any to update her majorly. The more action-orientated and speed focused game play seems to perfectly make her at least more viable, or at least interesting...

If anything, it gives her a good new Ftilt. It could have like super priority and a great combo starter. Was there anything else besides that and those new special meter burning weapons? What if they finally let her aim her cannon in Smash as well by holding B during side B?

 

[Wanderer from Roseyard]

I can understand why Pichu didn't return. A gag character that is intentionally inferior to the rest of the cast worked for a couch multiplayer game like Melee, where you only play against a pal or a sibling. But once the series went online in Brawl, opening up millions of potential player matchups that didn't exist before, it was a good idea to endeavor to make every character perform equally.

Young Link is redundant, Squirtle and Ivysaur threatened to over-saturate the game with Pokémon, and Kojima no longer has a hand in Snake appearing in Smash. I think the most likely two to appear in the future are Ice Climbers (if handhelds or 8P Smash don't cause issues) and Wolf—but by the time we see them again in Smash 5, there will have been several other cut characters to lament instead.

 

[Sid-cada]

If anything, it gives her a good new Ftilt. It could have like super priority and a great combo starter. Was there anything else besides that and those new special meter burning weapons? What if they finally let her aim her cannon in Smash as well by holding B during side B?

I think the input and use would be better on the NSpecial, with the same ability to hold your fire for more damage. Pressing the attack button while holding will allow you to fire it off, or you can go for rapid fire.

The Omega Metroid fight allows Samus to use her grapple-beam to bring the beast down. Maybe they might be able to include that in, seeing how similar the missile and charge shot might be otherwise?

It also wouldn't be to do bad if she got some more... actiony (for lack of a better word) melee attacks like the cut scenes for the Gamma and Omega Metroids when countering.

If they go that far, they might as well giver her a complete overhaul.

 

[Luminario]

I think the input and use would be better on the NSpecial, with the same ability to hold your fire for more damage. Pressing the attack button while holding will allow you to fire it off, or you can go for rapid fire.

The Omega Metroid fight allows Samus to use her grapple-beam to bring the beast down. Maybe they might be able to include that in, seeing how similar the missile and charge shot might be otherwise?

It also wouldn't be to do bad if she got some more... actiony (for lack of a better word) melee attacks like the cut scenes for the Gamma and Omega Metroids when countering.

If they go that far, they might as well giver her a complete overhaul.

I was going to say neutral B to begin with but i felt the angle change would suit the missiles better and would require much less changes to her moveset foundation. Maybe they could change her Utilt to function similarly to ZSS' old Up B that brings the opponent down with the grapple beam as a way to reference such grapple mechanics in Samus Returns without actually having it function as a grab? Samus does desperately need something other than what she's got right now, as her moveset feels so N64.

 

[FunAtParties]

I mentioned this in the Social thread already, but SG released some translations of Sakurai's development notes, and it mentions that DDD's Gordo Toss replaced his old side b to "lessen the load" on the 3DS'.

I prefer the Gordo Toss myself, but for those who want the old attack back, you all may have a chance.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Frankly, the Gordo Toss actually felt more reliable. The only thing that needs fixing is the amount of damage that the Gordo can take before it gets reflected.

 

[fogbadge]

i think mario needs some new victory animations they feel know kind of stale now

they don't need to be anything spectacular just a dance from when he grabs a power star or a flag goal

 

[FunAtParties]

i think mario needs some new victory animations they feel know kind of stale now

they don't need to be anything spectacular just a dance from when he grabs a power star or a flag goal

Wouldn't mind him striking some pose as he comes out of a pipe or something. He could use some personality in Smash.

Frankly, the Gordo Toss actually felt more reliable. The only thing that needs fixing is the amount of damage that the Gordo can take before it gets reflected.

I'd like for Top-spin Gordo to replace one of the inputs as well.

 

[Arthur97]

We all know that Samus is returning, but what I want to know is what are everyone's thoughts on updating her to match her Samus Returns abilities?

Samus really could use a bit of an update, and this seems like as good of an excuse as any to update her majorly. The more action-orientated and speed focused game play seems to perfectly make her at least more viable, or at least interesting...

I doubt she'll change too much. Complete overhauls are rare, but I could see her getting a new move or two. Maybe a new throw based off of the melee combat.

 

[Ben Holt]

I would like to see Mario's Up Special replaced with Rocket Nozzle and his Down Special replaced with Cappy.

 

[ryuu seika]

Cappy makes far more sense as a forward special, move the cape to down.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

This reminds me of people saying Mario should get his Galaxy spin.

Not even Rosalina got the Galaxy spin.

Complete overhauls are stupid rare and only happen when the move set has problems. As he is now, Mario has a functional and very effective move set.

It isn't changing.

 

[Ben Holt]

The reason I added Cappy as a Down Special is because I think Rocket Nozzle makes too much sense as an Up Special, and F.L.U.D.D. doesn't need to be two moves.

 

[AlphaSSB]

I think Mario's moveset it fine as is, to be honest. However, assuming they return, I'd love to see moves like the Galaxy Spin and Cappy Throw become custom moves for Mario.

 

[Metalex]

I was going to say neutral B to begin with but i felt the angle change would suit the missiles better and would require much less changes to her moveset foundation. Maybe they could change her Utilt to function similarly to ZSS' old Up B that brings the opponent down with the grapple beam as a way to reference such grapple mechanics in Samus Returns without actually having it function as a grab? Samus does desperately need something other than what she's got right now, as her moveset feels so N64.

I agree Samus moveset feels kinda outdated/uninspired, would be cool to see her play more like in Metroid games.

Personally i would change Neutral B to her charge beam which would function like it does in for example Super Metroid.

Could be rapid fired similiar to Falco's lasers if B button is tapped and if you hold B you could charge it to different levels before releasing while being able to move as well as aim in different directions at the same time.
(Maybe also stored like in it's current form if charged fully but would probably be unbalanced with the aiming)

Down B could be changed to go in and out of Morphball mode where you could lay bombs with maybe neutral or down B and use Boost Ball using Side B. Could keep the high aerial acceleration like in it's current form. Alternatively you could make her crawl the morphball mode and leave Down B for something else.


idk haven't played the Prime games but it feels like there's lot's of untapped moveset potential for Samus as she has used so many gadgets throughout the years since Smash 64 was made

 

[Luminario]

I agree Samus moveset feels kinda outdated/uninspired, would be cool to see her play more like in Metroid games.

Personally i would change Neutral B to her charge beam which would function like it does in for example Super Metroid.

Could be rapid fired similiar to Falco's lasers if B button is tapped and if you hold B you could charge it to different levels before releasing while being able to move as well as aim in different directions at the same time.
(Maybe also stored like in it's current form if charged fully but would probably be unbalanced with the aiming)

Down B could be changed to go in and out of Morphball mode where you could lay bombs with maybe neutral or down B and use Boost Ball using Side B. Could keep the high aerial acceleration like in it's current form. Alternatively you could make her crawl the morphball mode and leave Down B for something else.


idk haven't played the Prime games but it feels like there's lot's of untapped moveset potential for Samus as she has used so many gadgets throughout the years since Smash 64 was made

It's a shame veterans are unlikely to get changed too much. With characters like Samus or Zelda you can really feel the limitations of the Smash they debuted on.
Making morphball down B or crouch are both good ideas that lead to more options, though I'm not sure how Samus mains would feel about not being able to do bomb shenanigans while recovering if it's purely crouch.

 

[lordvaati]

I would really like to see return

I was lukewarm to Yink coming back at first, but upon further reflection I actually saw a legitimate reason to bring him back: by that method we now have 3 Links repping the 3 branches of the timeline. I posted a reason on GFAQS once upon a time, which I guess I'll quote here:

Due to the events of Ocarina of Time, an entropy happened that created 3 parallel universes.

The is generally treated like the original, so he could represent The timeline where the hero dies. which has all the classic series games starting with Lttp up to Zelda 2.

could return(possibly with a rebooted moveset), representing The timeline where the hero stays and goes on adventures, consisting of the games from Majora's Mask up to Four Swords Adventures.

And obviously would represent The Timeline of the New Age with the hero gone, Consisting of the games Wind Waker through Spirit Tracks.

 

[fogbadge]

I was lukewarm to Yink coming back at first, but upon further reflection I actually saw a legitimate reason to bring him back: by that method we now have 3 Links repping the 3 branches of the timeline. I posted a reason on GFAQS once upon a time, which I guess I'll quote here:

only there arent any adult links in the downfall timeline (unless botw is) so that doesn't really make sense

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Just a refresher.

Sakurai said...

is just Link.

is the younger Link.

That's all. He wants but also feels a younger is important.

Those two are all we're getting.

 

[ryuu seika]

It's a shame veterans are unlikely to get changed too much. With characters like Samus or Zelda you can really feel the limitations of the Smash they debuted on.
Making morphball down B or crouch are both good ideas that lead to more options, though I'm not sure how Samus mains would feel about not being able to do bomb shenanigans while recovering if it's purely crouch.

What if it was crouch and fast fall?

 

[Luminario]

What if it was crouch and fast fall?

Wouldn't it need to be dair instead? She'd still need a way to use the bombs in the air, but then she'd lose her spike.

 

[FunAtParties]

So one thing that kind of bugs me is the lack of personality the Pokemon characters have. The choices seem to be influenced by the anime, but the characters themselves don't bring much to the table from it (outside of the obvious ones and , but even they are knd of lacking).

Seeing that Jigglypuff is my current main, I got some ideas specifically for her.

When she loses:

Spoiler

A victory screen idea

Spoiler

More specifically for the last one- she sings, camera falls sideways, Jigglypuff draws a mustache or something on the screen and giggles.

 

[Arthur97]

So one thing that kind of bugs me is the lack of personality the Pokemon characters have. The choices seem to be influenced by the anime, but the characters themselves don't bring much to the table from it (outside of the obvious ones and , but even they are knd of lacking).

Seeing that Jigglypuff is my current main, I got some ideas specifically for her.

When she loses:

Spoiler

A victory screen idea

Spoiler

More specifically for the last one- she sings, camera falls sideways, Jigglypuff draws a mustache or something on the screen and giggles.

Of course they don't take much from the anime, because this is about video games. The anime serves as little more than something to help pick one character out of over 700.

 

[fogbadge]

Of course they don't take much from the anime, because this is about video games. The anime serves as little more than something to help pick one character out of over 700.

over 800 now, also its game freak themselves who do a lot of the influencing

 

[Swamp Sensei]

It's less that the Pokemon are based directly from the anime and more that the anime is the best way to promote a character.

So if they're popular in the anime, they're popular everywhere else.

 

[FunAtParties]

Of course they don't take much from the anime, because this is about video games. The anime serves as little more than something to help pick one character out of over 700.

All I'm saying is that even if the anime is really only used to help pick a few characters out of 800, it'd still be nice to see the team use it in the future to flesh the characters out a little bit. Like I said before, Mewtwo and Lucario's appearances are based off of their movies, I don't see why others can't follow suit.

It's less that the Pokemon are based directly from the anime and more that the anime is the best way to promote a character.

So if they're popular in the anime, they're popular everywhere else.

Yeah but there's a reason they get popular in the anime.

 

[lordvaati]

It's less that the Pokemon are based directly from the anime and more that the anime is the best way to promote a character.

So if they're popular in the anime, they're popular everywhere else.

the exception being , who became more popular in the anime because he was in Smash.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

the exception being , who became more popular in the anime because he was in Smash.

Eh kinda.

Ash was set to get a Froakie from the start.

 

[ryuu seika]

Isn't this a little beside the point? It doesn't matter what gets people interested in a pokemon.

If the VAST majority have zero personality outside the anime then of course we should use the anime to give them personality in Smash.

 

[fogbadge]

If the VAST majority have zero personality outside the anime then of course we should use the anime to give them personality in Smash.

somebody's never heard of natures

 

[ryuu seika]

Lol.
No pokemon have canon natures, though, and they rarely affect behaviour.

 

[Diddy Kong]

We all know that Samus is returning, but what I want to know is what are everyone's thoughts on updating her to match her Samus Returns abilities?

Samus really could use a bit of an update, and this seems like as good of an excuse as any to update her majorly. The more action-orientated and speed focused game play seems to perfectly make her at least more viable, or at least interesting...

I too want a complete overhaul for Samus. Just cannot deal with the lack of love she's been getting for so long. She should be able to charge her beam while moving for example, switch between missile types more effectively, carry more fire power, have more actual projectiles in her moveset like Megaman, move around more effectively with her Morph Ball, and just represent her character and franchise better. Was really hoping for a moveset overhaul when I saw the changes done to Bowser, Pit, Sheik, Yoshi and even Zero Suit Samus, but nothing... Hope that with all the extra attention to the Metroid series lately, this might finally happen.

 

[FunAtParties]

I like Samus how she is. She can use some serious buffs, but really outside of letting her roll around in her morph ball for crawl, I don't see the need for any other big changes.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I like Samus how she is. She can use some serious buffs, but really outside of letting her roll around in her morph ball for crawl, I don't see the need for any other big changes.

You don't want more projectiles? Cause I sure do... I do like how she plays now, but she indeed can use some major powerup buffs. If they just made her beam and missiles more powerful and more damaging. Maybe give her a jab comparable to Megaman's...

 

[FunAtParties]

You don't want more projectiles? Cause I sure do... I do like how she plays now, but she indeed can use some major powerup buffs. If they just made her beam and missiles more powerful and more damaging. Maybe give her a jab comparable to Megaman's...

Not really, I like the projectiles she has, I don't really need an Ice beam or anything, just buff the existing Charge Shot and Missiles (Charge in air, autocancel missiles with kb/damage buff).

If anything I'd like her grapple beam to be able to be angled so she can tether across the stage. That along with the crawl changes and I'd be really happy with her. I really don't want all characters to become super complex with ability changes and stuff, nor do I want characters to be changed to be more like another.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

If anything I'd like her grapple beam to be able to be angled so she can tether across the stage.

Um...

How would this one work exactly?

Is it like Spiderman or Spencer in UMvC3?

 

[FunAtParties]

Um...

How would this one work exactly?

Is it like Spiderman or Spencer in UMvC3?

Yeah