Vectoring: The replacement to Directional Influence in Smash 4

[Jords2Good]

I'm pretty sure I won't recognize any of these changes when I play competitively. (Well I only played brawl so I'm not sure how melee handled)

And I'm pretty sure this shouldn't ruin the fun that is smash bros.

 

[Untouch]

Pretty sure there's already a mechanic to stop jab locks.

 

[bajisci]

VI (Vector Influence) is the best and most descriptive name

 

[Espy Rose]

I'm pretty sure I won't recognize any of these changes when I play competitively. (Well I only played brawl so I'm not sure how melee handled)

And I'm pretty sure this shouldn't ruin the fun that is smash bros.

If you're getting into Smash 4 competitively, you're going to have to recognize this change. It's pretty damn huge, and very different from Melee/Brawl survival techs.

 

[Strong Badam]

Thanks for describing this new technique so well, @ Strong Badam . I really like the name vectoring for it; I also prefer it over the suggested alternative “knockback influence” as knockback is influenced by other things as well.

I view this change as mostly neutral, although I’m more inclined towards negative as ±20% and thus a total range of 40% variation in knockback is, in my opinion, way too much. Half of that would be enough to break long and easy chainthrows and would not make some of the throws completely useless.

All in all, I think this technique will add to rewarding defense more than offense. Which, well, might be noble in real life, but in my opinion is mostly boring in Smash.

As I described in the OP, I have no idea what the actual potency of Vectoring is. I used 20% for explanation purposes.

 

[Bladeviper]

VI (Vector Influence) is the best and most descriptive name

but hitstun shuffle is what the game calls it and might be easier for people who just watch tournaments to understand

 

[Strong Badam]

but hitstun shuffle is what the game calls it and might be easier for people who just watch tournaments to understand

Hitstun shuffle describes SDI, not Vectoring.

 

[trash?]

alright, so who abuses this the most in such a way where any form of edgeguarding is useless and they live to unreasonable amounts?

this is a good time for any particularly rude player to get ahead of the curve, if they feel like being the next plank and hated en-masse

 

[ミスティック Speed]

"Hitstun Shuffling" is the correct thing to call it, imo. @ Strong Badam

xD Not bashing you- its just that we've already got an official name, and it would be easier for people to remember it since its in the game already. Think you could change the title to fit this?

 

[Bladeviper]

Hitstun shuffle describes SDI, not Vectoring.

ah i was unsure since you posted that picture before. on another not will it really increase lives as much as we think since i believe most people are already holding down when hit since the video that came out a few days ago?

 

[buzz-roll]

but hitstun shuffle is what the game calls it and might be easier for people who just watch tournaments to understand

"Hitstun shuffle" is unintuitive, and describing a different phenomenon. There is no real intuitive way to describe this, except for the use of the word vector. VI is close to an established name convention.

 

[vileguy]

People shouldn't overreact to this. This mechanic will prevent some combos at some percents and cause you to live longer, but that's exactly what DI does also. DI isn't just about mixups, it's also about moving you to a position where your opponent might not be able to reach you before hitstun expires. This effect may be more powerful than DI, and it may not, time will tell. It's definitely more intuitive though. I don't think it's good or bad, other than being intuitive is good. I'm a big fan of the DI mechanic and will find putting this to use interesting.

 

[eshu125]

'when holding either left or right, Jigglypuff still dies at 47%, even though she clearly is sent to the left or right and not straight up'

So with that said, basically DI is still in the game but it's not a survivability tool? In fact, if you are knocking her vertically, but she's 'vectoring' sideways, but it still results in her dying at the same percentage, doesn't that mean that the knockback is actually being increased? furthermore, just because adding a horizontal vector to a vertical launch didn't change the percentage that she is ko'd at, wouldn't that still have some uses (e.g. wanting to influence the direction you are sent at lower percents, where getting ko'd isn't even an option)?

 

[multigrain_cheerios]

So does the vector you input for whenever you get hit also scale for higher percents/depending on how hard you smash the stick? Because if the vector stays the same throughout any point in time, this makes it harder for combos to continue with good vectoring as well as surviving at higher percentages.

For simplicity's sake, let's say the vector you always output has a magnitude of ten in any direction.

At low percents that send you in any direction with a vector magnitude of let's say ten, you can go twice as far by inputting your vector in the same direction making it hard for a follow up to occur. Now let's say you get hit at 150% with a Fox up smash that does, say, a magnitude of 90 units. The vector you input, should it stay the same throughout the entire fight and not be affected by %, how hard you input it, etc. will only let you travel a maximum of ten units away from the line of action of Fox's up smash.

My point is, if this is true combos will be harder and surviving at higher percentages will be extremely hard. Hence my question of whether or not the input vector scales. You find anything on that StrongBad?

 

[[TSON]]

I think it'd be weird to drop the DI moniker when we use it for so much right now. Vector DI/VDI would be fine. Not having an abbreviation for Vectoring and having people yell "YO THAT SOUTH COAST VECTORING" would be weird and people would think we're weird math freaks or something so.

IMO, "Hitstun shuffling" sounds nice too.

That's what the game's tips call SDI tho. That's misleading

 

[Player-1]

1. If you were sent perfectly horizontally, you would probably want to hold up and towards the stage. The x-component will be the same as if you held just towards the stage, allowing for survivability, but you also gain a bit of vertical knockback which can make recovering easier. Same general logic as DI, but adapted to a new mechanic.
2. If you are sent straight up vertically, you can reduce your knockback without changing your direction whatsoever. You are vectoring to survive, but you are literally not influencing your direction whatsoever. This is why DI is an incorrect term.

1. Why would it be the same x-component? You're saying the that if I'm sent 180 degrees left and I hold 0 degrees right then that will be the same same as holding 30 degrees? If so, you mentioned that being sent up 90 degrees and holding directly horizontally (0 or 180 degrees) did nothing to help you survive, so taking that concept and applying it horizontally being sent 180 degrees and holding 90 degrees up doesn't do anything (except for the fall speed of the character like @ Strong Badam mentioned). So if 30 degrees and 0 degrees do the same thing does that many anything on the right side of y axis will do the same thing?

2. Lol, I always took it as direction of your control stick influencing your trajectory, not direction your character goes so that's what I meant when I said direction still influencing your trajectory. I suppose both would make sense, so I guess it doesn't really matter.

 

[slimjim]

I vouch for VI. It describes the phenomenon perfectly and also makes the most sense as a acronym-able phrase.

 

[lordvaati]

Hit stun Shuffling = HS.

There, now it's abbreviated and peeps can stop acting like it's convoluted. Vectoring seems like a boon to me, since now slow but powerful characters might finally have an edge in a way.

 

[buzz-roll]

I'd be down to shout about south coast vectoring, sounds hype to me

 

[PizzaWenisaur]

'when holding either left or right, Jigglypuff still dies at 47%, even though she clearly is sent to the left or right and not straight up'

So with that said, basically DI is still in the game but it's not a survivability tool? In fact, if you are knocking her vertically, but she's 'vectoring' sideways, but it still results in her dying at the same percentage, doesn't that mean that the knockback is actually being increased? furthermore, just because adding a horizontal vector to a vertical launch didn't change the percentage that she is ko'd at, wouldn't that still have some uses (e.g. wanting to influence the direction you are sent at lower percents, where getting ko'd isn't even an option)?

You can VDI in any direction though - so you can VDI down and survive longer.

Well - there goes some of this games combo potential. Along with making people survive even longer...

 

[Kosaki]

Can't wait to hear D1 shout "NO VEE EYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE".

 

[Muster]

Alright, I was mistaken in posting the downard DI in the mechanics thread, when it actually seems to be vectoring that all the streamers and such have discovered.

So does Vectoring down and left/right pretty much mimic how DI used to act inside the box?
(Really glad i sucked at DI)

 

[Meta_Ridley]

I'm liking it, as far as I can understand it. And of course, I won't be telling any of my Smash friends about it for a bit ;D

 

[Player-1]

ADAM! I KNOW WHAT TO CALL THIS MECHANIC/TECHNIQUE!

VI

Vector
Influence

Bahahahaha (k pay me monies for being totally legit)

That's just a mouthful. Vectoring is an excellent name.
DMG's name is the best though. VI too good.

Sorry, but I already beat you to it :3

Am I allowed to call this VI instead? lol.

 

[Untouch]

I still don't understand why people are thinking this'll ruin lower % combos.
The only thing that makes these combos work is the fact you have a low speed so you can follow up.

20% isn't nearly enough to do anything.
Again, the only thing it impacts on a meaningful way is higher % combos, which you really can't conveniently do anyways.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

From what I gather, neither DI nor SDI exists in Smash 4, replaced by this new mechanic, which (for simplicity's sake), probably works like Automatic Smash DI, but kicks in after hitlag freeze, much like traditional DI.

If this is correct (and I have no way to know for sure right now), this would mean that escaping multi-hit moves is limited to an input that is basically the same as ASDI (just hold the direction you want to move), and instead of "teleporting" in that direction, you just suffer a change in overal knockback amount/direction.

This seems to scale in some way, and that scaling might be a replacement for (or addition to, perhaps) the SDI multiplier seen on some moves in past Smash games. For example, Ivysaur N-Air in Brawl had a low SDI multiplier, so each SDI input had less effect than most other moves with similar damage/hitlag.

 

[RedCap-BlueSpikes]

This doesn't seem too bad. Combos are still a thing, we'll just have to do things a little differently from now on. Hopefully in a future patch they either reduce the effect this has on knockback or they increase hitstun slightly.

 

[T-block]

Great find... thanks for the thread.

I love the name "vectoring", but I'll also throw my support behind "VI".

Hitstun shuffling is pretty clearly SDI, imo.

 

[Xeylir]

I'm not going to lie, even if this proves bad for combos and the like, watching this game's meta start to evolve fascinates me.

 

[Shadow the Past]

Hit stun Shuffling = HS.

There, now it's abbreviated and peeps can stop acting like it's convoluted. Vectoring seems like a boon to me, since now slow but powerful characters might finally have an edge in a way.

That's SDI

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Something of note is that the optimal way to DI most combo throws in past Smash games is more-or-less the same way one would use this to get out of combos, so it is unlikely that we will see a significant difference in how hard it is to combo people with most setup stuff.

 

[Spelt]

I feel like this should be called Knockback Influence to differentiate it in peoples' minds from Directional Influence

I really hope this happens because the potential for terrible Killer Instinct jokes is enormous.

 

[kupo15]

People shouldn't overreact to this. This mechanic will prevent some combos at some percents and cause you to live longer, but that's exactly what DI does also. DI isn't just about mixups, it's also about moving you to a position where your opponent might not be able to reach you before hitstun expires. This effect may be more powerful than DI, and it may not, time will tell. It's definitely more intuitive though. I don't think it's good or bad, other than being intuitive is good. I'm a big fan of the DI mechanic and will find putting this to use interesting.

Yes and no at the same time. DI does allow you to live longer but through different means but the subtle difference between DI and VI are huge.

With DI you are still being sent the same amount of kb force no matter which way you DI, the only difference is the angle you are sent and how that force is distributed between the x and y axis.

With VI you are manipulating the base about of kb you receive effectively making moves more or less powerful at the core as if you had more or less damage when hit. This is why holding the same direction the move sends with DI does literally nothing while doing so with VI increases your distance in that direction.

I like the term Vectoring. It may not roll off the tongue the best but its a great description of the mechanic. So this is why people live until 200% and is going to be the reason why combo potential most likely won't be as good as it could be.

 

[Cook]

Guys.

There is no reason not to call it DI.

It's much simpler. It won't confuse people because DI is already different depending on the game.

Just... just call it DI.

And know that DI in this game works differently.

But great find!

 

[Bladeviper]

You can VDI in any direction though - so you can VDI down and survive longer.

Well - there goes some of this games combo potential. Along with making people survive even longer...

people were already holding down though since that video came out a few days ago

 

[buzz-roll]

I think what thereflexwonder is hinting at is that "sdi," at least in sm4sh, is just an application of this newfangled vectoring. I don't have any testing but it makes sense?! Is SDI still its own thing, or just a result of vectoring? (Since you're adding a knockback vector to a move...)

 

[Shadow the Past]

Sorry, but I already beat you to it :3

I had you both beat 8)

So what are we calling to call "Good DI" now? Good Vectoring? Good VI? (Vectorial Influence?)

These are the hard hitting questions man.

 

[Mythra]

Ok before I get confused: Hitstun Shuffling = Smash DI, still exists in Smash 4
DI = Replaced with Vectoring (If there's voting to name the new concept I go for this or Vectorial Influence)

 

[Espy Rose]

Just cosigning to T-Block and promoting VI as a new term. This thread moves too fast..

 

[Krynxe]

1. Why would it be the same x-component? You're saying the that if I'm sent 180 degrees left and I hold 0 degrees right then that will be the same same as holding 30 degrees? If so, you mentioned that being sent up 90 degrees and holding directly horizontally (0 or 180 degrees) did nothing to help you survive, so taking that concept and applying it horizontally being sent 180 degrees and holding 90 degrees up doesn't do anything (except for the fall speed of the character like @ Strong Badam mentioned). So if 30 degrees and 0 degrees do the same thing does that many anything on the right side of y axis will do the same thing?

I explained it here
http://smashboards.com/threads/vect...luence-in-smash-4.368780/page-2#post-17604020