[v3.6] R.O.B. Community Matchup Chart + Discussion

[Oracle]

my point was that you can play vs falcon aggressively. i put him in positions where he needed to shield, but didn't, so he got hit. the only times i got shieldgrabbed were when i spaced or timed my fair poorly

 

[bubbaking]

I don't think that should work against a good Falcon. He's faster than us and can punish most of the stuff we do. When they start using Falcon Kick (something I noticed Strawhat never used), things get even harder, since that move combos, kills, and is fairly safe to just throw out now. Also, Falcon may have bad OoS options, but so do we...

 

[Oracle]

strawhat would smash you so I don't think you have any business calling him a bad falcon...we've played a lot before so he definitely knows what to do vs rob.

 

[Yung Mei]

ill try and get some matches up for matchup discussion with my bud's rob


need videos, not theorycrafting u nerds >

 

[JCaesar]

I wanna see Sethlon vs Wizzrobe's Sonic. Wizzy's gotten a lot better since Apex.

 

[bubbaking]

Wth? I never called Strawhat a "bad Falcon". I've played against Falcons better than Strawhat and this region might just have the greatest density of ROBs anywhere, so most people here are quite familiar with what ROB can do. I've met Strawhat, and IIRC, he's a Marth player at heart. Off the top of my head, Hat, Boss, and especially Wenbo can all play Falcon better than him, and I've played all three of them. Don't know how well CTL compares to all of them, but I've played him a bunch as well. I know Falcon and he's too fast for ROB to be pinning him in his shield. If we could, I'd think that the Fox MU would be a whole lot easier as well.

@Calvo: I'm definitely not theorycrafting, since I've played the MU a crapload of times, but it's hard to get videos when there are rarely recording setups during the times I'm playing a noteworthy MU.

 

[JCaesar]

I find that "especially" kind of funny, since Wenbo easily has the worst P:M Falcon of the players you just named.

 

[Oracle]

This is not the marth player strawhat, its someone else. All of those players are pretty bad compared to him lol. Strawhat is top five in dfw right now, which is probably the strongest pm region in the country, so...yeah. idk how well those players do in your region but pretty sure they're not good enough to be taking games off of me or sethlon. i've seen most of them play and its pretty unimpressive, no offense to those players

 

[bubbaking]

Played some more ROB:Falcon versus Darkflame, another pretty good P:M Falcon, in a MM. He won 2-0, after which I beat him in several more MMs with Zard. To be quite honest, I really feel like Falcon solidly beats ROB. He's just too fast, definitely faster than ROB and fast enough to avoid having to be put into his shield. Not only that, but whenever ROB enters the air for something, Falcon can either just out-prioritize it, trade knee with it, or just bait it out, dash away, and then come back in with some ****. Every time, you think you have pinned him down or that you're taking away stage control from him, he just rushes through/over everything and proceeds to be broken with DD games.

Perhaps I'm just bad at the Falcon MU, but I personally find that pretty odd, considering that I'm really darn good at it in Melee, I have literally no trouble with it in P:M when I go other characters, and my ROB even has less trouble against spacees then it does against Falcon. To reiterate the beliefs I have on this MU, I believe ROB solidly loses, but I don't think it's a super-terrible MU. That belongs to Sheik (and probably just Sheik; maybe a spacee or two as well). Also, I still feel that what I said before still applies:

He's faster than us and can punish most of the stuff we do. When they start using Falcon Kick (something I noticed Strawhat never used), things get even harder, since that move combos, kills, and is fairly safe to just throw out now. Also, Falcon may have bad OoS options, but so do we...

To expand on that, Falcon also has pretty good shield pressure when he hits a shield (multiple frame 3 jabs, great DD for cross-ups, etc).

 

[Bstuk]

I'm having trouble against squritle's side b. I cant seem to stop it with any of my attacks (ftilt, dtilt, dsmash). The only thing I have found that works is a fully charged laser, but that isn't an option every time and is kinda unreliable. Seems like the only way to beat it is to run away and catch him after its done, but alot of times there isn't enough stage to run away. Anyone find anything else that works?

 

[dettadeus]

Stay behind your Gyro. If it hits the gyro he pops out of it.
Or he'll jump over it at which point his movement is severely limited and you can punish with Fsmash or something.

 

[Oracle]

Nair gets squirtle out of side b, or maybe a retreating boost bair.

After nerd rage notes
-ivysaur is basically unwinnable if they knkw what theyre doing, since you cant challenge her in the air or shield anything.
-even with the nerfs robs gimp game is still good vs characters with bad recoveries, so spacies and the like arent too bad
- somehow mk is the only character you can murder with dthrow upsmash lol

 

[Bstuk]

Alright, thanks guys I'll try that out next time I get to play against squritle. Got any new rob vids oracle?

 

[Juushichi]

MK is a really weird combination of factors for ROB. I know for GnW, he feels like he should be able to be CGd, but he can't be. :<

 

[Oracle]

you can watch me get destroyed by reflex's ivysaur i guess. didn't get anything else recorded

 

[dettadeus]

Oracle I think the problem is that you're trying to approach against an inherently defensive character when ROB's approach options are lackluster at best compared to most characters.

Also you forgot how to recover in one stock.

 

[Oracle]

uh...robs camping game straight up doesn't work. no competent player will get hit with laser or gyro in neutral, and if i try to run from ivysaur i get razor leafed. gyro is just too slow to be able to throw out and have enough time to pick up without my opponent getting in. also ivy can heal off of the gyro, so if it gets left on stage then ivy heals/gets solarbeam for free. his approach options are pretty good, idk why you guys think that having an airdash should lead to defensive play lol

 

[bubbaking]

You can just reflector the Razor Leaves and also use that as an approaching tool, IMO. Works really well against Wolf..... Tbh, I don't see Ivy's camping really working too well against ROB either. You don't have to pick up the gyro immediately after it's laid out. I mean, your opponent can't just go through it while it's laying on the ground. I usually just throw it out and then play around it if the opponent tries to close in. If I happen to pass through it with a little bit of space, I WD and pick it up and now I have a free glide toss approach/escape. Just leave it on the ground and tilt over it, dash through it and grab or something, etc. It does just as much work left on the stage (with you close enough to utilize it) as it does in your hands. Also, having great approach options leads to having the ability to play defensively REALLY well, IMO. Look at almost any char who has incredible approaching tools and you'll see that said tools also aid a defensive playstyle (note: defensive =/= campy). Meanwhile, not all defensive tools can be used well offensively.

From watching just a bit of your matches, I think that part of your problem may be that you're always trying to boost fair everywhere. Fundamentally, I guess we just come from totally different playstyles, but I think it may do you a bit of good to try to stay grounded a bit more and see what you can do there. Your boost gameplay was really good (from the small portion of the video that I watched), but trying to literally boost everywhere doesn't cut it IMO. Also, I personally think you gotta jab more. Will have more to say later.

I'm having trouble against squritle's side b. I cant seem to stop it with any of my attacks (ftilt, dtilt, dsmash). The only thing I have found that works is a fully charged laser, but that isn't an option every time and is kinda unreliable. Seems like the only way to beat it is to run away and catch him after its done, but alot of times there isn't enough stage to run away. Anyone find anything else that works?

Lolz, I almost gave you the noob rundown...but then I looked at your tag and remembered that you're possibly a better ROB than me. It's TKO, isn't it? Yeah, he beat my ROB too! Had to go Zard against him. Seeing the trouble that you had with him, too, makes me think that Squirtle might actually have an advantage against ROB. Yeah, that new light armor on Squirt's Withdraw makes it a ton harder to stop. However, I think you can still beat it out with a dangled fsmash, on top of what dettadeus said about staying behind a gyro. I think literally every other grounded option (other than laser and gyro) we have will lose out to that move, and that includes spot-dodges and rolls. In all honesty, you might as well just shield it. I never really got punished for doing that against TKO because Squirtle can't really follow up. He hits your shield and pops over you, he hits the back of your shield, and that's it; you're back to neutral. Make SURE you don't drop your shield till he aerials afterwards or lands, though. I can't even begin to tell you how many times he tagged me in the back with bair because I tried to punish his sideB on my shield. I don't think we have anything that we can do OoS that's fast enough to punish his sideB on our shield. Maybe we could roll away, but our roll is kinda slow and I'd rather not... If you figure out anything else about this MU, please share, because as it stands, I am NOT going back to that MU with ROB.

Btw, you may not have played him but Evan's brother was at Thanks for Playing 2 and he also mains a pretty decent Squirt.

Edit: I guess running away would be more effective than shielding in some cases, but my gripe with this is that you may not be able to react to a Withdraw with a dash away in time. That and he could just turn around, jump, and cancel his WD in the air to get away chock-free (after pushing you to the ledge to gain control of the entire stage). If you're out of stage, just shielding the sideB would.....send him offstage I guess. That's good isn't it? Gimping Squirt is hard, though...

Nair gets squirtle out of side b, or maybe a retreating boost bair

I don't think any good Squirtle will just run into nair or bair, though. They can just weave in and out with Withdraw and punish the nair. That and they usually do sideB from a close-ish distance where no one would feel comfortable just throwing out aerials. They aren't marathoning across with these sideB's. I think if we try that, they can just jump up and stuff us.

ivysaur is basically unwinnable if they knkw what theyre doing, since you cant challenge her in the air or shield anything.

I disagree. I think we solidly beat Ivysaur if we play the MU right. We're faster and more mobile, and Ivy can't do anything about jab pressure if we get in. It stuffs jumps and Ivy's shieldgrab is too slow to try to punish it. We don't really have to challenge Ivy in the air. We can beat her on the ground and we can close in on her quickly from a distance, so we actually get to punish her jumps. We can also gimp her pretty badly if she doesn't recover really high. I really don't mean any offense to you because I realize you're a great ROB, but don't you think that maybe you had a really hard time because it was Reflex behind the reins?

MK is a really weird combination of factors for ROB. I know for GnW, he feels like he should be able to be CGd, but he can't be. :<

Played against my fair share of MK over here and I think dthrow CGs him. After the CG, he falls so fast that he can still be usmashed but he's so light that it can kill him on small stages. XD

 

[dettadeus]

If a Squirtle SideB'd your shield and you had a gyro you could punish it with a glide toss either away, throwing the gyro at Squirtle, or back and down, going towards Squirtle and trying to hit his landing or stuff an aerial.

Other than that just jumping OoS and boosting away wouldn't be a bad option I think.

 

[bubbaking]

OK, that's good to know. That also confirms that just shielding the sideB is probably a good option.

Edit: Actually, are you sure? Thinking back on what happened, it seemed like Squirtle could act very quickly after popping up from hitting my shield. Are you certain that he doesn't have frame advantage on our actions OoS?

 

[Bstuk]

Alright, new move i'm having difficulty getting around is sonic's neutral b (homing attack). It covers so much space that I always feel threatened by it. Is there any way to punish it on reaction? Shielding it doesn't really work because robs shield is so small.

 

[JCaesar]

Fair wholly outprioritizes it if you just throw it out. But I also find it very difficult to react to. You pretty much have to watch your opponent's patterns and predict when he's gonna use it in order to stop it.

 

[DrinkingFood]

THE SILENCE HAS BEEN BROKEN

 

[batistabus]

Oh my god. This is so ****ing good. I can't stop jizzing. Help.

 

[bubbaking]

New version's out and Sonic's HA doesn't seem to be a problem. Just fair it or shield it and punish it OoS.

 

[Bstuk]

New matchup I'm having trouble with is Kirby. It's usually his dash attack that gets me, it covers alot of space and has almost no endlag, plus you cant crouch cancel it or do anything oos about it. Anyone got any tips on beating this? It's mainly the neutral game that I struggle with in this matchup, I put myself in alot of bad positions trying to expect stuff.

 

[G13_Flux]

WD OOS to ftilt or grab or something. Trust me it works lol. just takes an extra step and more technical finesse. you also have two amazing projectiles that should aid you immensely in simply preventing him from approaching. throw a gyro out on the ground more in front of you.

 

[bubbaking]

Dang, first Squirt's Withdraw, then Sonic's HA, and now this. It seems like you generally have a lot of trouble with high-mobility options that combo into other things. Yeah, I remember we were talking about this; the move is pretty good. I don't think WD OoS ftilt will work; the move's not laggy enough. Also, grab won't work sometimes because Kirbies space the move to end up behind ROB. On top of THAT, Kirby's DA goes through ROB's gyro, but the gryo does slow him down. That could potentially be of use. Perhaps the move can be clanked with ftilt or dtilt? If anything, a laser should pierce through it. Also, have you tried out-right challenging it with your own grounded sideB?

Heaven forbid Kirby actually Inhales us, because then he doesn't even have to approach.

 

[Bstuk]

Yeahh lol maybe its cuz I get hit by these moves a couple of times and spend the rest of the match worrying about them. Yeah I could probably try dtilt, I always forget how much range that move actually has. Against characters with multiple jumps I just feel like you gotta be super patient and just wait for them to use their jumps before going in. I'll figure out this matchup soon.

 

[bubbaking]

Actually, while that would probably work against a char like Jiggs, I think Kirby should remain grounded a lot more because that is where most of his mobility lies. I like this MU a lot as Kirby. ROB generally has a hard time hitting him because he's so small and fast, and Kirby can kinda rush him down and style on his shield. Kirby's grab game is really good, and if ROB shields too much, it's a free Inhale which means Kirby doesn't even have to approach, and I feel that Kirby's small size lets him use the laser even better than ROB can. Kirby's throws also set ROB up for serious damage. Kirby's dthrow combos into usmash at death %'s and fthrow sets up for fair/re-grab mix-ups at low %'s. (Woah, that run-on sentence...). Also, ROB has to be careful when recovering because Kirby has so many tools to gimp, and a laser would just add on to that.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

I would like to talk about the Link mu first. I personally feel this is one of R.O.B's worst mu. We get out camped, our air approach is shut down by boomerang and bombs, we can't stay is shield for long vs link's projectiles since we have a small shield and we cant try to roll through his stuff since our rolls are bad. Link also has a strong up close game so even when we get in things are not easy.

What we do have is an ability to gimp link, but with links improved recovery this is easier said then donebut I do believe with some practice R.O.B can either get the gimps or rack up good dmg while link tries to recover. We also have decent combos on him thanks to his weight and fall speed. edit: forgot to mention our side b is ok in this match, but does not do enough to be an answer to link's spam.

So from what I can tell this is a bad and very hard mu, but if anyone has any thoughts on how to fight link or why I might be wrong about this being so bad please post your thoughts

(also is it ok to revive this thread? b/c if not I can make a new mu thread for 3.0. but i felt reviving made more sense)

 

[Oracle]

shoutouts to DF for beating sethlon last weekend! brb about to commit sudoku

 

[DrinkingFood]

shoutouts to DF for beating sethlon last weekend! brb about to commit sudoku

thanks homie
#ROBsuxbutROYsuxmore

 

[S P O N G E]

Is it just me or does anyone else have the problem that the match-up chart doesnt show any characters on it?

 

[DrinkingFood]

that's because nobody plays ROB, literally figuratively

 

[PillsBuryDopeBoy]

K guys so sapphire and I are the process of making a project M file where each character is there best version, what version of Project M was R.o.B the best in?

 

[jjvirus]

Anyone have any tips for ROB vs. Sheik? Just a general outline of how to approach the matchup because Sheik (among Peach, Squirtle, and Charizard) is one of ROB's hardest matchups. So if anyone can throw some advice my way it'd be appreciated.

 

[DrinkingFood]

Try to not boost in for fairs too much because her ftilt will stuff that pretty often. Grounded gyro will block grounded needles, so if you can toss one out and protect it, you can outcamp sheik with lasers. Sheik doesn't have any grounded glide tosses so if she grabs your gyro, pressuring her is relatively safe and at worst, you take a gyro to the face with no follow-up if you pressure unsafely. It also means you can boost in and fair a lot more if she grabs a gyro since she can't ftilt. Gyro on the ground will also make it difficult for her to grab you, and you can CC Dsmash, CC dtilt, CC grab, CC usmash, etc most of her other approaches to mid-high percents. Try to keep space with retreating fairs, ftilts, jabs, and dtilts if she gets close.

 

[Dandizzle]

Should I or someone else make a new matchup thread? I think its safe to say that this thread is out of date and dead and I'd really like to talk about R.O.B's matchups.

 

[jjvirus]

So am I wrong for thinking Zelda counters R.O.B. like crazy? Well, at the least 60:40? Reflector that lasts forever > camp game, she can combo R.O.B. easily at low-mid percents, any of her sweetspotted aerials OoS do good dmg/can kill, and when you do manage to hit her, she's so floaty that you can't get a good string going.

I have no idea how to approach this matchup seeing as how Zelda seemingly has an answer for most of R.O.B.'s strats. JCaesar beat Zhime back in May, so I know it's possible, but I can't wrap my head around it.

Halp?