[v3.6] R.O.B. Community Matchup Chart + Discussion

[DrinkingFood]

CP falco with ROB, learn the matchup better. CP tink with idk who

 

[Frost | Odds]

That was the exact opposite of what I asked, but -

OSHI- HE'S READING THE THREAD HIDE

 

[bubbaking]

I know very little about the ROB:TL MU, but I think the ROB:Falco MU is actually pretty decent for ROB. Reflecting his lasers really does a lot and it can be done on reaction to Falco leaving the ground if you're fast enough. He's also gimp city, so one good throw near the edge + one good follow-up = dead bird. FFers are incredibly easy to TC, too, so if you knock him down, you could very easily push him towards the edge. Also, Falco's pressure is vertical and does not cover horizontal movement very well, so even though his pressure is tight and our rolls are bad, you can roll out of his pressure once he's started (or even before) as long as he didn't completely read it. We get combo'd super hard, though. The one annoying part about this MU is recovery. Lasers are obviously annoying when they are knocking us out of jumps and boosts, but ROBs have to avoid that urge to repeatedly recover high over the ledge because Falco can easily reach up there very quickly with a strong instant spike or bair. Another thing going for us in that MU is that we can act as pseudo-Peaches. Peach approaches the Falco MU by floating above SH laser and aerial height but below FH laser height (about the height of a BF plat). She can also throw a turnip beforehand to make her approach easier. We can do almost exactly the same albeit with our boosts and gyro instead of a float and turnips. We have the added benefit of having a very good glidetoss, so in addition to the option of throwing the gyro before approaching, we can boost aerial in with the gyro in our hands and then glidetoss to follow up, retreat, or even mix up our pressure. Still, we get combo'd really hard.

IMO, I'd say the MU is about even.

If you're really trying to CP against ROB, surely there are better options than Falco and TL? Link would be a much better CP, imho.

 

[Frost | Odds]

I'm not desperate or needing a hard CP - just wondering who's best among the characters I play. Playing 2 characters each in melee and PM is already stretching it quite a bit. Bowser would be a helluva stretch considering how godawful his item game is and how hard he gets camped and gimped by ROB, so it's pretty much between Tink and Falco.

I mean, Jiggs might be a possibility if she wasn't easily one of the 3 worst characters in PM :/

 

[Dandizzle]

Lmao thanks _Odds you got people to talk about one of the matchups I wanted people to talk about. Just try to abuse R.O.B's tiny shield and any tech chase should lead into a punish if you set one up. And don't get grabbed!

EDIT: If anyone cares someone is making another matchup thread and if you make a post on reddit saying advantages and disadvantages it should be put in the chart. We can see how dumb people are!
http://www.reddit.com/r/SSBPM/comments/2h2db3/simpler_mu_chart/

 

[Dandizzle]

I know there's not much to talk about because most characters including R.O.B will most likely be changed next patch but I would like to reach a conclusion on Falco and start Falcon or Fox discussion. I think people will be interested to play R.O.B if they learn all the good stuff he can do to spacies and I think the Falcon match up is pretty interesting plus he probably won't be changed much. I'll write something about the two soon, just my scene has a surprisingly low amount of Melee characters so I am far from the best person to talk about it.

 

[bubbaking]

There are actually quite a few decent Melee char players in our scene, but you may not have played them. For Falcon, we have Eli M and Clueless Link/Rvlvr Bobcat. We have a truckload of Foxes (Animal, Codi, Rolex, etc.), and we have at least one PM Falco (Venti3HM). Now that I think more about it, I believe the ROB:Falco MU is slightly in Falco's favor but definitely not far from even.

 

[Dandizzle]

My scene is sorta different than yours because I don't really travel off LI or to the city unless it's big. I was away for Zenith and I was going to go to KTAR X this weekend,but Nebulous sounds good next weekend. Around here there are some Falco's but I've only played like one Fox.

I don't think I'm too good against Falco but if you do anything right Falco gets destroyed which makes it a pretty interesting fight. Falco has a huge advantage in neutral but if you can get past it he's either chaingrabbed or offstage. Outta the starters I like FD and if that's banned I guess PS2, and your counterpicking GHZ is good and Skyloft is good too if that stage is legal for some reason. I wouldn't want small blastzones, it's better to have the bottom blastzone down low so you don't die from the spike at a low percent as well. Platforms ruin chaingrabs, even though you can get above lasers with them being above Falco in this matchup isn't that good. They can mess up pillaring sometimes so they are alright I guess.

 

[DrinkingFood]

Falco's advantage in neutral isn't that big. There are serveral ways to deal with lasers without powershielding them (since ROB's PS is so bad facing forward):
-Boost towards him at a height where only his uair can hit. At that point he would have to hard read you to hit with the uair, and laser or his other aerials can't hit. If he commits to something you nair or fair and that leads into a heavy punishment.
-Crouch behind a grounded gyro. He can only hit with you mid height lasers like that.
-Obviously side-b is good. You only want to use it far away or very close though. If he chooses not to laser (empty SH), and you don't hit him with the side-b, the move is laggy and punishable unless you are a good distance away. Also if he lasers high, the same thing applies because the laser will go over his head after it reflects, but his punishment on you would be weaker since he can't start it off with an SH aerial since that would be stuffed by the return laser.
-Glide toss OoS is probably the best though. If he doesn't laser he has to deal with an incoming gyro which can hit him out of his SH. If he lasers, it hits the gyro and its hitbox is still active so if he tries to hit you, he gets hit. The lowest laser heights can probably under it but he will still probably get hit by the gyro unless he was close enough for his dash to under it.

 

[Dandizzle]

I've never really thought of doing more of a full hop boost from ground instead of a short hopped one. That actually seems pretty clever. I would also like to mention how landing nair and up smashes isn't that good for killing because he is a really fast faller and won't die off the top easy. Up air can kill crazy early and a fair is great to gimp or in some cases outright kill. Pretty much applies to all fast fallers. So any ideas what section I should put it under? I can see both slight disadvantage and neutral.

 

[bubbaking]

Lolz, don't we both live on LI? We should have the same Smash scene. All of those players I named are LI or SBU players.

Also, I mentioned the boost thing earlier:

Another thing going for us in that MU is that we can act as pseudo-Peaches. Peach approaches the Falco MU by floating above SH laser and aerial height but below FH laser height (about the height of a BF plat). She can also throw a turnip beforehand to make her approach easier. We can do almost exactly the same albeit with our boosts and gyro instead of a float and turnips. We have the added benefit of having a very good glidetoss, so in addition to the option of throwing the gyro before approaching, we can boost aerial in with the gyro in our hands and then glidetoss to follow up, retreat, or even mix up our pressure.

No vertically killing move will kill ultra FFers, especially ROB's nerfed nair, but they're still great against FFers because they lead into combos and can often chain into themselves for a buttload of real damage.

Falco doesn't have a huge advantage at neutral. In fact, it's the opposite. ROB can easily sideB on reaction to Falco jumping and reflect the laser for a free approach. The reason I think this MU favors Falco slightly is that Falco pressure completely destroys ROB. Most chars can roll out of it because Falco pressure is bad at chasing things laterally, but ROB's roll is so bad that he can just adjust on-reaction and still be able to punish ROB fully. ROB's tech-roll is also atrocious, allowing for easy tech-chases out of a knockdown. Bad shield? Well I'm sure Falco doesn't mind killing our floaty pieces of junk with his dtilt. Trying to blitz in with a high recovery? Falco will up there in a flash with a spike or bair. Trying to play it smart and recover low? Falco can easily dropzone into DJ dair, shine > dair, or shine-turnaround bair (or he can RAR SH or WD off for that same option), and he can do all of these options from the ledge to add invincibility to the mix. There's also the fact that lasers can eat up Robo boosts. Our CCs do nothing agaisnt a good Falco, and if he catches us CCing, he can even tack on a bunch of extra damage with that stupid new jab of his. Our saving grace is that we win neutral, we can tech-chase and combo Falco extremely hard, and we can gimp him like nobody's business.

All in all, I'd say the MU is 45:55 in Falco's favor. Slight advantage for him, but close enough that I would be fine with it being labelled as even.

 

[Dandizzle]

Here's some R.O.B talk that happened on other boards, just scroll to it because copying it took way too much space and it's better to give credit to the writers I suppose.
http://smashboards.com/threads/link-match-up-thread.339397/ Huge write up vs Link from early 3.0
http://smashboards.com/threads/pit-general-match-up-thread.331827/ Pit talk from early 2013, not too useful IMO but whatever.
http://smashboards.com/threads/the-mewtwo-mu-thread-that-kinda-rhymes.343572/page I wrote this like two weeks ago to help a M2 player and I stand by most of it.
There's little things here and there like a couple ZSS mains calling R.O.B annoying but yea this should be it, at least on Smashboards.

 

[Jams.]

I'm curious about your final assessment of a 45-55 matchup in favour of Mewtwo, since I personally feel like this is one of ROB's worst matchups where he gets outclassed in almost every single way. Even in your evaluation, I don't really see any upsides for ROB in this matchup that warrants your final verdict.

At long range, neither character really wins due to gyro clanking with shadowball, reflectors on both characters, and Mewtwo powershielding laser on reaction, etc. Note that if you sideb to reflect his shadow ball at a long enough range, he can actually powershield it back at you and hit you during the sideb recovery frames. However, I feel that the optimum zoning for ROB in most matchups, where ROB can threaten either a boost aerial approach or retreat with a projectile, is also the optimum range for teleport approaches. In this case however, teleport is a faster and safer approach. Mewtwo also can threaten space at that range with his tilts that lead to juggles, something ROB can't do nearly as well. In terms of the punish game, Mewtwo's aerial mobility with DJC and teleport, as well as his amazing uair allow him to juggle ROB in many situations even if ROB tries to escape by boosting away. On the other hand, ROB can't juggle Mewtwo as effectively as he is floaty, and has fair and teleport. Mewtwo's recovery distance also challenges that of ROB's, meaning he can go very deep for edgeguards with bair that ROB has difficulty responding to. On the other hand, Mewtwo's recovery is almost completely safe. Finally, Mewtwo has two very strong vertical kill moves, fair and uthrow, that take advantage of ROB's floatiness and are also fairly easy to land. ROB can kill Mewtwo early with boost nair or usmash, but both moves are very risky in that they're fairly telegraphed and easy to punish.

I would actually be pretty happy to be proven incorrect in my matchup analysis, because I hate playing my local Mewtwo. However, I honestly feel like ROB gets outclassed in almost every way and that this matchup is either 35-65 or 30-70.

 

[Dandizzle]

I said I mostly stand by it, I just didn't want to seem like an asshole where that guy was asking for help and I'd be like "heh that's 70-30 in your favor you baddie." I'll write more later on (mobile) but I think R.O.B's character isn't hard countered by Mewtwo's archetype of a character, it's just Mewtwo's bull**** that makes it bad. Next patch it should be good if it turns out right, I'll try to explain myself. If I am going to throw out numbers I guess it's around your suggestion of 65-35 this patch, just I personally haven't had too much trouble compared to other characters. BTW is this a somewhat well known Mewtwo I would know?

 

[DrinkingFood]

Lolz, don't we both live on LI? We should have the same Smash scene. All of those players I named are LI or SBU players.

Also, I mentioned the boost thing earlier:


No vertically killing move will kill ultra FFers, especially ROB's nerfed nair, but they're still great against FFers because they lead into combos and can often chain into themselves for a buttload of real damage.

Falco doesn't have a huge advantage at neutral. In fact, it's the opposite. ROB can easily sideB on reaction to Falco jumping and reflect the laser for a free approach. The reason I think this MU favors Falco slightly is that Falco pressure completely destroys ROB. Most chars can roll out of it because Falco pressure is bad at chasing things laterally, but ROB's roll is so bad that he can just adjust on-reaction and still be able to punish ROB fully. ROB's tech-roll is also atrocious, allowing for easy tech-chases out of a knockdown. Bad shield? Well I'm sure Falco doesn't mind killing our floaty pieces of junk with his dtilt. Trying to blitz in with a high recovery? Falco will up there in a flash with a spike or bair. Trying to play it smart and recover low? Falco can easily dropzone into DJ dair, shine > dair, or shine-turnaround bair (or he can RAR SH or WD off for that same option), and he can do all of these options from the ledge to add invincibility to the mix. There's also the fact that lasers can eat up Robo boosts. Our CCs do nothing agaisnt a good Falco, and if he catches us CCing, he can even tack on a bunch of extra damage with that stupid new jab of his. Our saving grace is that we win neutral, we can tech-chase and combo Falco extremely hard, and we can gimp him like nobody's business.

All in all, I'd say the MU is 45:55 in Falco's favor. Slight advantage for him, but close enough that I would be fine with it being labelled as even.

Being able to reflect lasers with side-b isn't a strength to the extent of outclassing falco's neutral. You can't reflect the lasers on reaction to the laser, only on reaction to the jump. Which means he can SH to bait out a side-b if you try to reflect every time. Or he can just shoot them high which will lock you down on the griund, and if you reflect it, it will go over his head. So long as keeps space outside the range of grounded side-b hitboxes he can punish it if relied on.
Also you are wrong about killing vertically. Dthrow chaingrab can lead directly into an upsmash kill, dthrow can lead into upsmash all the way up until like 130 even though it only needs 115 to kill given they were above ROBs head when hit. Granted it depends on the ceiling height. Boost nair can also still kill well, not sure on the percent but I'll grant that it's a more opportunistic thing than a reliable one, since it probably doesn't kill til like 130 on falco.
All that said I do not think the difference is that tremendous in neutral, the presence of lasers basically requires that the ROB know how to utilize all their defense against them, the real issue is that his approaches are fairly safe against our CC and shield, and he makes it difficult to get a gyro out which is what will allow us to convert his lasers effectively into space control by throwing the gyro at the lasers to prevent him from approaching. The punishment game is certainly extreme on both ends as falco has never had a hard time dealing huge damage or taking stocks from a single dair or shine and ROB has ridiculously good CGs and gimps on super FFers.
But I can agree it's probably like 45:55 ROB:Falco.

 

[Jams.]

I said I mostly stand by it, I just didn't want to seem like an ******* where that guy was asking for help and I'd be like "heh that's 70-30 in your favor you baddie." I'll write more later on (mobile) but I think R.O.B's character isn't hard countered by Mewtwo's archetype of a character, it's just Mewtwo's bull**** that makes it bad. Next patch it should be good if it turns out right, I'll try to explain myself. If I am going to throw out numbers I guess it's around your suggestion of 65-35 this patch, just I personally haven't had too much trouble compared to other characters. BTW is this a somewhat well known Mewtwo I would know?

I see. Sorry if I came across as aggressive, I tried to articulate my thoughts neutrally, but it came off kind of like a rant in the end. I agree that Mewtwo's type of character doesn't specifically counter ROB. I think they have similar strengths and attributes in some areas; I think the matchup is lopsided mostly because Mewtwo is just better than ROB as a character. It should definitely be better next patch, it might even swing heavily in ROB's favour if they overnerf Mewtwo.
Also, my region (Alberta) is a basically unknown region that is most likely bad, so you definitely won't know the Mewtwo player. If you're curious though, my region's videos are posted on https://www.youtube.com/user/SSBUniversity

The most recent video of the Mewtwo player is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpr6BzSpHjI (hope you don't mind the shirtless thing, I promise we're not a bunch of weirdos that have shirtless GFs all the time >.>). He has played more recently, and my most recent set against him was early September, but the videos aren't uploaded because people are too lazy to export to Youtube.

 

[Dandizzle]

I asked on the Falco matchup thread if they have any experience with R.O.B i'll see if that gives us anything, I'll add Falco sooner or later regardless though. I also asked the DK boards what they think of R.O.B and noticed Jitty was in a video on there and was wondering if he would or anyone else, has any thoughts on it. I have fought a really good local DK and Poob awhile back so I can be of some help.

EDIT: http://smashboards.com/threads/donkey-kongs-matchup-thread.348382/page-4#post-17738211 Poob already responded and I wrote about a bit about how I feel vs. DK over on the DK matchup thread.

 

[Dandizzle]

I just had a really good set against a Charizard player that we could use to talk about the matchup more in depth, I'll record a game with L_Pag later to add 2 it as well. Hopefully I'll upload it soon. I'll try to add characters we've talked about a bit in the OP but its kidna a shot in the dark to put someone there with only 1 or 2 reponses.

 

[bubbaking]

You can't reflect the lasers on reaction to the laser, only on reaction to the jump.

That's what I said...

ROB can easily sideB on reaction to Falco jumping and reflect the laser for a free approach.

I agree with this sentiment, but we should mix-up how we approach between our boost approaches, sideB, and simply not approaching at all.

On the subject of Mew2, ROB definitely loses pretty badly. 65:35 is accurate, I'd say. About reflectors, though, ROB's is better, IMO. If Mewtwo tries to use shadow ball from the optimal teleport distance (not long-range), ROB can reflect it and Mewtwo can't reflect it back in time nor will he get anything out of the teleport behind the ball. ROB shouldn't be trying to reflect things from long-range because the sideB can actually be punished in that case. Aside from that, though, ROB has nothing on Mewtwo outside off CCing random tilts, bairs, and nairs that M2 uses badly.

 

[Dandizzle]

I'm glad you agree with yourself Bubbaking. (Typo? lol) Anywho yea Mewtwo is pretty bad I just wanted to fight one before I did a write up, If I do I'll write something. Imma try to at least add 1 character 2 the OP today. And I'll plug my netplay videos I've been uploading because some of the videos there might back up what I'm saying but I'll summarize what I've gathered from all the matches I played over the weekend.
A lot of the characters I talk about I should have some footage on my youtube of them: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLYEUVzBNWLBYY3MaFSCXVQkc_jmytKg7e I still have stuff on my hard drive to upload and I'll probably play some more today
-Lucas still isn't really a problem, I don't think I've lost one game in a set to a Lucas IIRC. If the Lucas is really good then yea good character with good players are hard but I wouldn't switch from R.O.B or anything. I should play Kip on netplay to get a better idea.
-Falcon is everywhere on netplay, he's not bad 2 verse but it's not fun for me to play. Him getting a early conversion off of throw into a early kill can lose you the game right there, but it's not hard to exploit Falcon's shortcomings.
-I feel we beat Lucario a bit. http://www.twitch.tv/waffru/b/577901626 23:52 for the ****tier game and 1:09:20 for the game with an actual Lucario player and an awesome ending. We can CC some stuff, reflect even the super aura spheres, destroy him in neutral, and edgeguard him decently. Obviously if he does something on shield it's bad but that's with pretty much any character anyway.
-Samus R.O.B is just silly like wow the way these two characters interact. I wanna put this as 60-40 for R.O.B but this is just first impressions really. I'm not sure If I have a Samus game recorded though, I just played one but I didn't save it for some reason.
-Charizard is still crazy hard. I have this ranked set against this pretty good Zard on my youtube. That character makes me work harder then any other character in the game so far.
-Zelda isn't that bad but she can switch to Shiek so it's hard to give it a number. I played a Shielda in the last match of a ranked game and I did really well, but I can still see how a good Shiek would destroy. Still think a good Zard is worse for multiple reasons.
- A lot of Mario's don't know how to beat someone without camping so most of them are super easy, if they know how play neutral without fireballs and get good followups it can be annoying. 55-45? Next patch we should destroy him like crazy.
- I played with TomboCombo for hours and I could only take like 3 games off of him out of 20+. Egg roll is really annoying for R.O.B but I heard it's being nerfed next patch, but Yoshi might get parrying or the like. Luckily there's maybe like 3 good Yoshi's in P.M anyway, R.O.B can destroy bad ones easily.
-Wolf can surprise you but if you can handle the other spacies you can handle Wolf, just need to learn how to deal with his quirks, like adapting to his side-B going diagonally instead of horizontally when edgeguarding. Easier then Fox and Falco but not super easy.
- I still hate Marth a whooollllle bunch, not much changed there.
-GnW is weird because Bacon is very troublesome and he can kill you pretty early, but he dies so easily off the top it can't be awful. He also has a throw that puts you directly in a techchase which is pretty dangerous with R.O.B's tech rolls. I can see him being a small problem.
- I had some trouble fighting this one Ness, but I was just playing bad, not a problem.
-Ike is easy, maybe 60-40 easy
-Bowser is easy, maybe 60-40 easy. I'm pretty sure he can crawl right through a gyro throw at times so that's pretty spooky.
-Jiggs is easy, you just have to remember you are fighting a puff so don't go crazy with followups. A good rest can be bad but nair can kill really early to punish it.

That's all I really got, I actually have been doing really well on netplay and to gloat a bit I am still undefeated in ranked and got into the top 50 just this weekend. If you can set it up it's fantastic and I'd love to play you.

 

[bubbaking]

I don't think you should base most of your experience on Netplay matches, even if they're ranked. You should really try to make a greater effort to travel out to fests and tourneys and the like. A lot of the high-level players prefer to only play the game in person and not online, and you've already shown that you don't know who the best players of each character in our scene are.

-Which Lucas players have you played? Volvulus is pretty much the only good Lucas player on LI. Lucas can do some nasty stuff to ROB between early uthrow kills, ridiculous shield pokes into huge combos, and safe zoning. It's pretty hard to actually get in on him too. He kinda feels like another Fox (but with a projectile he can convert off of).

-I feel Falcon can be pretty bad, but there are no good Falcon players. If you get a hit on him, though, he's the easiest character to combo, tech-chase, and gimp.

-Yoshi can already parry, lolz.

 

[Dandizzle]

Yoshi can parry grabs, regular move parries are pretty janky and I think it'll be polished a bit next patch so it's more like Melee.

I've played good players on netplay (Got knocked out instantly in a invitational tourney thing that had the best of netplay like Anther) that are better than most at the local tourneys, I'll go to the Play N' Trade things if I can anyway. The reason I don't those these players in "our" scene because I never go 2 the city and probably never will ever for a weekly. It's not me just being ignorant, I went to Beast Mode once months ago, that's it, I haven't played majority of the people there. And you know how that place isn't exactly inviting. I went to Play N' trade once before and they didn't put me in the damn bracket, and one weekend it didn't happen so I thought it ended. I've been to smash league a couple times but no one that good shows up and I don't think it even happens anymore. I've sure tried to get to tourneys lmao. Besides I used the netplay examples because I actually have video on it, I usually get to some local like every other week. Every matchup I talked about there I played in person, and netplay is not really laggy because there's so many players in tristate. I'm improving much more now then when I did without netplay because I can play whenever I want and then review my matches, which I never had to chance to before.

I like to look at the positive side when talking about matchups with the really good P.M chars because while they are getting worse we can only get better from what I've picked up. Lucas is stupid but R.O.B can deal with the stupid better than some other characters. Lucas doesn't really have a quick sex kick kidna move so if you space yourself right in an aerial combo it's pretty safe. Nair has good range compared to his stuff, we can reflect Side-B and gyro is pretty good for edgeguarding current and future tethers. I hope they make Upthrow less dumb because if you are grabbed that can kill really early.

 

[Crome]

I have mixed feelings on the R.O.B v Marth/Roy matchup. It sucks recovering low with R.O.B against those two. Marth can spike you, and Roy can use his neutral special. However, on the ground I feel R.O.B can hold his own, if you can space the other player properly. They can fair your top, which sucks, but the laser is always there. I agree with the "slight disadvantage" rating.

Edited this post, if you could update the OP that'd be awesome.

I'd love to contribute further, but I haven't played pm in a bit. I need to get a wii so I can play it with wired controllers. I'll be sure to lurk though.

 

[Dandizzle]

The kind of Marth really matters, I have some really good games against Frolk that I could use as a reference if I choose to upload them. It feels worse than it is because it's incredibly boring to play. I'll add your quote and maybe some other characters if I can find anything.

My first impressions don't hold up in some matchups, like Samus is just werid but the Samus has 2 be really good for it 2 be a challenge. I played Chevy and I saw how some things could be annoying, but it's probably just me being ass anyway. And I feel a lot better playing Bowsers as Ganon, just our shield gets destroyed and I'll die from an up air at like 80% lol.

 

[berto]

how do you guys feel about metaknight?

 

[Dandizzle]

I see some problems similar to Marth, like him ducking under projectiles and of course range. Meta Knight is more directly aggro. smaller, has more jumps, deeper offstage edgeguards, and quick aerials. He would have a much harder time killing and can't really keep you out with ranged pokes with his butter knife. Honestly it probably can be a pain in the ass but there's stuff we can do like CC and living for years with good DI and spacing. Bubbaking has a Metaknight so he should probably say something.

 

[(1UP)]

we get a ton of profit off of grabs, i believe we can CG him to a reasonable %.
MK's fall speed and weight also mean nair > boost uair works and can kill him at the same time.
this matchup never seems to feel too uncomfortable, since we have stuff to fall back on. just make sure not to get killed early by anything and it's relatively good for us

 

[Dandizzle]

3.5 is coming! I'm hoping this will revitalize the thread and get people all excited for R.O.B again! If you want me to add a new match up with info to back it up or maybe add something you said to an existing match up let me know.

 

[bubbaking]

Not like it matters much, now that 3.5 is out, but yeah, I mained MK. I believe he solidly beat ROB. MK can CG ROB too from low to high-mid %'s if ROB DIs dthrow away, and if he doesn't, easy combos for MK. What really made this MU bad, though, is what makes ROB a bad character, in 3.02, before 3.02, and even after 3.02. He has no OoS options. MK's frame-trap pressure works really well on ROB because his options are roll, which is easily punished, fair OoS, which goes right over MK's head and simply doesn't work on anyone who's behind ROB, or just stay in shield and let himself get grabbed. ROB's strengths in this MU are his ability to CC, since MK is pretty easy to CC, and his ability to CG and combo MK very hard. After that, MK has a pretty easy time against ROB. Didn't help that ROB is floaty and somewhat easy to juggle and MK is the juggle master and has SL.

Have you guys seen the change-log (read: nerf-list) for ROB? It's horrific! He's been consistently nerfed in some major way from patch to patch ever since 2.1, but this is one of the worst cases of destruction I have ever witnessed. ROB got hit harder than probably any other character in P:M, and I surmise that he may just very well be a bottom-tier char now.

 

[Dandizzle]

Yea I don't really have the motivation to push with this character anymore, despite my attachment to him. It really boggles my mind that all the effort we put in to revitalize this board seems to have had no effect on the development of the character. The forum is pretty alive considering the amount of R.O.B players. Who are you running with now though Bubbaking? They nerfed Zard pretty bad too and from what you are saying doesn't seem your going back to R.O.B anytime soon.

EDIT: The entire cast besides Peach puts me 2 sleep zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[R00]

I think a few of R.O.B's changes are somewhat understandable considering the revised approach to recoveries. With Dair now stalling less and the option of airdodging after his last boost taken away (this one pained me the most), R.O.B players simply have to adapt and be more intentional about mixups and alternate paths of recovery, which is of course easier said than done. The reduced damage for boosted up air and added endlag to grounded side-B are both unnecessary, IMO.

HOWEVER, we do have one buff: 10% larger shield. This is actually pretty great, since I believe R.O.B had one of the most poke-able shields in 3.02.

I don't know about you guys, but I will soldier on with this character. I enjoy his play style and kit too much to drop him, and I think many of his changes will be easily adapted to.

 

[DrinkingFood]

The only thing that really bothers me at all is the revised collision detection for aerial side-b. It's still not in the change log, I don't know what causes it, and it's an unnecessary change to a niche tool (perfect boost->wavelands) that was really fun to use.

 

[Dandizzle]

Despite the nerfs any characters you think R.O.B does better against this patch? Or worse? I'm just as if not madder than you but I've let this thread derail too many times :/. I could write essays about my frustrations with the current situation, just I wouldn't write them in this thread or at all because it's not like anything we write here gets notice from the dev team .

From what I have played Marth and Roy (a bit more) are worse to the point where they are equally bad and possibly can be buffed to straight 60:40 even though it probably wont sit pretty with most of you for them 2 be as bad as Sheik. (which could be even worse this patch, I wouldn't know.) Just that edgeguarding us is so, so much easier with the airdodge change and wavelanding from booster being dumb. Up air not killing makes our punishes lead to death not as easily too . I haven't really experimented with this but it's also possible Side-B isn't as good to get grabs with the lag, which I think I used quite often against the two. Really all I got at the moment though.

 

[Dandizzle]

Yo @ DrinkingFood I saw you switched to Roy against Oracle Zard even after his nerfs in 3.5. Can you speak about why you hate that matchup just like me? Btw your games against Lunchables were very entertaining.

I also fixed thread stuff, sorry I didn't notice.

 

[DrinkingFood]

I switched to Roy for practice. Going all ROB would have limited my practice against another good player to only one character. Where I live, I have to take every chance and make the most of out playing against good players. I figured I would probably lose since ROB is my best character and he beat that, so I decided to cut my losses and get in some good practice/matchup EXP with Roy and MewTwo, my secondaries. Don't actually know if I hate the ROB matchup vs Charizard tho.

 

[Dandizzle]

Damn it validate me . Just imagine he has needles or something.

 

[Dandizzle]

Bump? I thought people would have stuff to say with the new patch, but I guess there is a very small playerbase.

 

[jjvirus]

So, I rarely get to go out to tournaments due to location johns, but yesterday my crew and I got to go to Xanadu. After beating Reslived, Boss' Fox and Falco, Fortune, and Plank in Winner's bracket and making it to grand finals, I got to play Boss again on stream. This time he used Mario and I didn't know what to do. I've played against other Marios and beaten them pretty solidly (double 3 stocked Updog in a MM and forced Gallo to switch to Pit after JV 2 stocking his Mario), so I felt like I understood the matchup. But when I played Boss' Mario I realized I'm only good against Marios who spam fireballs/pills as an approach (because grounded side-b is too goodz). If anyone could give me advice on how to handle the matchup, it'd be appreciated.

The match starts at 4:40:00.

http://www.twitch.tv/vgbootcamp/v/3596202

Bracket from tourney: http://vgbootcamp.challonge.com/SatX12092014SSBM

 

[Rubba Prime]

And word on the Puff MU in 3.5? Both @ Dandizzle and I lost to a Puff in tournament last week. I have footage of me playing said match in tournament, but the commentary is really bad and I wouldn't want to subject you all to Dandizzles voice.

 

[DrinkingFood]

Puff matchup should be almost identical as 3.0, which is good for us