[v3.6] R.O.B. Community Matchup Chart + Discussion

[Dandizzle]

I always found Ike to be pretty easy but you can get killed really early if you mess up so it can go either way, I think we still have a slight advantage do to our ability to shut down QD and getting pretty free combos as well. Nair can hit the vulnerable part of Up-B without much effort and smacking him with fair or gyro works offstage.

 

[Rajikaru]

I've found that I have a lot of problems with good Foxes, moreso than any other character. He has the Shiek problem of good aerial game that all have priority over Fair for the most part and come out too fast to punish, a projectile game is almost nonexistent thanks to how fast Fox can move across the screen without being punished, and it's really easy to get combo'd because Rob's so big. Falco isn't as much of a problem because his blaster approach becomes useless, but he has similar problems either way.

 

[Dandizzle]

I really can't say much on Fox because I haven't played a good one in awhile, but I know people are really pushing for this whole R.O.B does good against Fox thing so Fox players can complain about something and people can use it to argue for P.M's balance or whatever. A character I haven't lost to recently but I'm just curious about is Ness, because on paper this seems easy but there is some nasty things they can pull out.

 

[Boiko]

A character I haven't lost to recently but I'm just curious about is Ness, because on paper this seems easy but there is some nasty things they can pull out.

Idk, The Flex Zone was pretty recent..

 

[Dandizzle]

Nice e-peen as always Boiko

 

[Boiko]

Against Ness you should just be trying to get him off stage and then just gimping his terrible recovery. ROB can outrange almost everything Ness can do, so playing the spacing game. If he does get in, he can't convert off of dthrow at lowish percentage, like 20% and up you can jump out. You have guaranteed DACUS, or just up smash out of down throw at low percentage, and uair out of mid percentage.

Really though, put him off stage and snipe his jump, then just edge guard him. Crouch cancel down smash or shield grab fair and dash attack.

I'd say it's in ROB's favor quite a bit. Probably like 60-40.

 

[Sneez]

I've found that I have a lot of problems with good Foxes, moreso than any other character. He has the Shiek problem of good aerial game that all have priority over Fair for the most part and come out too fast to punish, a projectile game is almost nonexistent thanks to how fast Fox can move across the screen without being punished, and it's really easy to get combo'd because Rob's so big. Falco isn't as much of a problem because his blaster approach becomes useless, but he has similar problems either way.

I actually think falco is tougher because falco's lasers are tougher to deal with in neutral. and rob's punish game on spacies is actually like super good, to do well against spacies you gotta have your punish game on point. heres a vid of my rob vs k9's fox (he went mk game 1) https://youtu.be/ntg0AyBDXKY?t=4m43s

 

[BlackMamba]

Strong Disadvantage:

Disadvantage:
Sheik

Spoiler

Charizard
Captain Falcon

Spoiler

This thread had some good posts about the Falcon match up http://smashboards.com/threads/captain-falcon-mu.393054/

Marth


Slight Disadvantage:
Meta Knight

Even:
Ivysaur
Link
Slight Advantage:
Ike
Advantage
Jigglypuff
Peach

Strong Advantage:

Unclear:
Zelda

I know I have a lot too add but I also don't like to add match ups with only one or in some cases two opinions. I also will only consider quotes that go into detail why it's a good/bad match up.

If you disagree please explain why! Your opinions are very much appreciated!

I say that the ROB/Zelda matchup is for sure in ROB's favor. I main Zelda and am developing ROB as a secondary. ROB's tilts outrange and outspeed hers (her fastest tilt is downtilt, which is terrible on shield). After that, it's frame nine or ten with Ftilt, which is not safe on shield either. Even if she lands an Ftilt, at low percents you can just crouch cancel it. She can't do the same to you really because Zelda's crouch cancel is pretty awful. Don't throw lasers out randomly in neutral unless you're in the air and angle them downward so Naryu's doesn't send them back at you. Projectile heavy characters are actually horrible for Zelda because she is too slow to maneuver around them. Her only answer is Naryu's, which is definitely punishable (especially if you bait out a grounded one). Use the laser offstage once she starts trying to recover (there is a TON of startup on Farore's Wind). She can't easily escape fair carries offstage. If the person using her panics while being carried off, just keep spacing Fairs; they'll beat out the initial hitbox on her upB. If you get her above you you can kill very easily with boosted Nair. Wait for her to commit to an option (she has very few ways of getting down; pretty much just drifting down, air dodging and teleporting) then boost over to and Nair. It can kill her as early as about 80 since she's light and floaty. For the same reason, up throw kills her pretty early. So at the end of the day, yeah she'll combo you if you allow her to get in, but overall you can shut down her mediocre options in neutral and get kills much more easily than she can.

 

[DrinkingFood]

On and on, the open parenthesis (goes. Where it stops, nobody knows



















)

 

[BlackMamba]

On and on, the open parenthesis (goes. Where it stops, nobody knows



















)

lol fixed

 

[Dandizzle]

So I am not mistaken, the reason I have the Zelda MU as "unclear" is because she can turn into Sheik so it's hard to put a number on the character as a whole, since the player can either switch to Sheik or stay Zelda. (Which I think we can all agree Sheik is a worse match up to whatever extent.) I may not have thrown in all the quotes so it may seem to lean to a certain direction which is not what I'm intending. Either way even without the Sheik factor I couldn't rate my own opinion important enough to put a number on it since there has been differing opinion with some logic to back either side. All the match ups currently on there are backed by someone saying something backed with some info relevant to the match up and the numbers were either listed in the blurb or my own interpretation of the info given, yet still not my own opinion.

Now if you wanted my opinion on Zelda vs R.O.B I couldn't tell you anything definite, I feel Zelda players often underrate their character while people who don't play Zelda overrate the character. She has undergone major changes with the patch and can be best summed up as A bad character with good moves that can make up for some of her flaws (Slow speed, easily pressured, light and floaty) against certain characters. That doesn't necessarily mean anything for the match up discussion, but I do agree with some struggles that have been listed from R.O.B's POV and Zelda's as well. I don't think the match up from either side has been played to the highest level and therefore I don't think it's really fair to judge it, not to mention both of them are largely misunderstood/underdeveloped so there is usually many mistakes made from the players of both sides whenever I have seen it played.

 

[Sneez]

aight im gonna take a whack at the matchup spread. just doing 4 categories: advantage, disadvantage, neutral, and not sure. this is based mostly off my my own experience so im not super sure about some of them.

advantage: wario, luigi, peach, yoshi, dk, ic's, zelda, toon link, jiggs, ivysaur, ike, olimar, snake, sonic

neutral: mario, bowser, fox, falco, link, ganon, lucario, samus, kirby, mk, roy

disadvantage: captain falcon, sheik, zss, ddd, marth, rob :]

not sure: diddy, wolf, mewtwo, pika, squirtle, zard, lucas, ness, pit, g&w

 

[Dandizzle]

Thank you very much Sneez, I really appreciate this kind of feedback because it can spark a lot of discussion. Maybe when I'm feeling more critical I'll go into detail on a match up I disagree with from the list.

 

[Sneez]

cool, and i'm a bit shaky on a lot of the mu's because my personal experience could be biased based on a skill level disparity

 

[Rajikaru]

A character doesn't have advantage over itself. It's always equal except for skill, which isn't factored in and is assumed to be equal.

 

[Sneez]

sounds like someone missed the joke lulz

 

[Rajikaru]

sounds like someone missed the joke lulz

Haha how hilarious XDDDD its so funny even though this is a thread for comp discussion and not jokes XDDDDDDD LMAO


Joking around is fine but at the very least acknowledge the fact that it's a joke when the post is made and put the actual statistic in the right spot.

 

[Dandizzle]

Calm down son it kinda went without saying and you play that ditto and tell me you having a fun time. We can have fun, my heart can only take so much ＤＩＧＩＴＡＬ ＳＰＯＲＴＳ anyways, just don't be one of those guys who explain a match up with dank memes or by repeating what you read on the P.M tier list thread or Reddit, because there are a lot of bozos around.

 

[Rajikaru]

Calm down son it kinda went without saying and you play that ditto and tell me you having a fun time.

What?

 

[Dandizzle]

I don't think anyone would agree that a character has an advantage on themselves in this game, and a lot of people don't like R.O.B dittos for various reasons. But Sneez you gotta watch ya banter I don't need more random **** talk on this thread one way or another lol.

 

[Rajikaru]

Alright, I got a question that is somewhat related to matchups because it helps some.

How the hell do you DACUS as ROB? I've been trying all day and even at 1/4 speed and pressing the buttons frame by frame I haven't been able to do it.

 

[Zaa]

Just like Rajikaru said, I also really have trouble with DACUS. i can do it maybe 40% of the time but unlike wavedashing o anything I cant find any way to see a visual queue or anything for when to press up and z

 

[Sneez]

just gotta learn the timing. in 3.5 you get a 2 frame window whether you use a or z. and i wouldn't recommend practicing with slow speed, that mode is super buggy.

 

[BlackMamba]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPGgDEgEP18
I just used this method and it worked for me

 

[Rajikaru]

Link definitely has an advantage over ROB, especially on small maps like Battlefield, and it's definitely ****ing annoying playing against one. Constant item bombardment that's hard to properly reflect on small maps, a giant grab range, and great reach. He's like Marth if you only ever played Marth on Yoshi's Story.

 

[Dandizzle]

My only real experience with Link is playing E2xd on netplay, who is probably one of the best Links yet I could still take a game off from time to time. He would do crazy moonwalks and pivots grabs and it just kinda showed me how much Link could actually do with that much effort. It could be annoying but Link just seems to fall off at the top level and a character with mobility can easily overwhelm him like R.O.B even though he has things that are usually bad for R.O.B like a sword. Excuse any bad writing here on mobile and kinda beat lol.

 

[Jams.]

aight im gonna take a whack at the matchup spread. just doing 4 categories: advantage, disadvantage, neutral, and not sure. this is based mostly off my my own experience so im not super sure about some of them.

advantage: wario, luigi, peach, yoshi, dk, ic's, zelda, toon link, jiggs, ivysaur, ike, olimar, snake, sonic

neutral: mario, bowser, fox, falco, link, ganon, lucario, samus, kirby, mk, roy

disadvantage: captain falcon, sheik, zss, ddd, marth, rob :]

not sure: diddy, wolf, mewtwo, pika, squirtle, zard, lucas, ness, pit, g&w

I curious why you think ZSS is disadvantageous for ROB. I don't have too much experience with this matchup, but it hasn't been too difficult the times I have played it. There aren't any good ZSS players locally though.

Also, I definitely think the Bowser matchup is in ROB's favour. ROB can combo Bowser and edgeguard him extremely well, and the opposite is not true if ROB DIs and recovers correctly. I play this matchup a lot with a very solid Bowser player (IMO), so I'm fairly certain it's ROB's advantage and can elaborate more on the matchup if people want.

 

[Sneez]

i'm confident that the link mu is neutral, i have a lot of experience playing link (guy named redx in norcal). their projectiles totally balance each other out, and they can combo each other fairly well. if anything it has gotten better for rob since link got nerfed. it's tough to play link on battlefield at first since the boomerang and platforms make it tough to make it back to center stage, i reccomend boosting around on the top platform until you see an opening and boost nairing into center stage or something. and against link, it's important to stay on the ground a lot in neutral so you don't get smacked by boomerangs.

zss beats rob because all her aerials are super fast, which rob has a tough time dealing with. rob also gets combo'd really well by her nair and aerials in general. i've played jason waterfalls and he agrees its good for zss.

bowser is one that i'm not super sure of, but since rob's grab is so good he has an easy time dealing with bowser's super armor which is good for him. i wouldn't doubt that it's good for rob.

 

[BlackMamba]

i'm confident that the link mu is neutral, i have a lot of experience playing link (guy named redx in norcal). their projectiles totally balance each other out, and they can combo each other fairly well. if anything it has gotten better for rob since link got nerfed. it's tough to play link on battlefield at first since the boomerang and platforms make it tough to make it back to center stage, i reccomend boosting around on the top platform until you see an opening and boost nairing into center stage or something. and against link, it's important to stay on the ground a lot in neutral so you don't get smacked by boomerangs.

zss beats rob because all her aerials are super fast, which rob has a tough time dealing with. rob also gets combo'd really well by her nair and aerials in general. i've played jason waterfalls and he agrees its good for zss.

bowser is one that i'm not super sure of, but since rob's grab is so good he has an easy time dealing with bowser's super armor which is good for him. i wouldn't doubt that it's good for rob.

Downthrow chains on Bowser for quite awhile and you can almost always get a boosted aerial as a followup. Plus edgeguarding him is even easier for ROB than other cast members. Also bowser is slightly floaty so up throw kills him relatively easily. I'd say ROB wins it.

 

[BlackMamba]

I curious why you think ZSS is disadvantageous for ROB. I don't have too much experience with this matchup, but it hasn't been too difficult the times I have played it. There aren't any good ZSS players locally though.

Also, I definitely think the Bowser matchup is in ROB's favour. ROB can combo Bowser and edgeguard him extremely well, and the opposite is not true if ROB DIs and recovers correctly. I play this matchup a lot with a very solid Bowser player (IMO), so I'm fairly certain it's ROB's advantage and can elaborate more on the matchup if people want.

So after playing against Shokio's ZSS at Aftershock I'm inclined to think that she beats ROB. He gets comboed extremely well by her and she has good mobility so getting in on him isn't overly difficulty.

 

[Taytertot]

from what i understand many of zss's combos rely on the DI of her opponent

 

[BlackMamba]

from what i understand many of zss's combos rely on the DI of her opponent

Ya that's true. But even with good DI they're a bit more difficult for (heavy) floaties to escape than other characters

 

[Taytertot]

fair enough. I cant really imagine a good way to fight her as ROB other then trying to lame it out with projectiles and try to keep her from getting in at all. Not that that would be very easy with the mobility that ZSS has

 

[Dandizzle]

If anyone has any opinions on Ivysaur from 3.5, I think we beat her and good Ivysaur players like Machiavelli say R.O.B wins. Even last patch me and Bubbaking said we win and Ivy is way worse off now. She's really floaty so UpSmash and Nair kills really early and we can get good tether punishes with the proper read. Only problem you could really argue is Ivy's edgeugard on R.O.B which could be a problem coming from low, but if you go high and dodge seed bombs you should be good. UpSmash UpAir and Solarbeam kill early but these moves either have small sweetspots or unreliable setups that can be avoided. I just want to have more positive match ups on here since discussion only really happens when someone complains about some character and from at least my knowledge of Ivysaur I find the old ranking of even to be incorrect.

 

[Taytertot]

If anyone has any opinions on Ivysaur from 3.5, I think we beat her and good Ivysaur players like Machiavelli say R.O.B wins. Even last patch me and Bubbaking said we win and Ivy is way worse off now. She's really floaty so UpSmash and Nair kills really early and we can get good tether punishes with the proper read. Only problem you could really argue is Ivy's edgeugard on R.O.B which could be a problem coming from low, but if you go high and dodge seed bombs you should be good. UpSmash UpAir and Solarbeam kill early but these moves either have small sweetspots or unreliable setups that can be avoided. I just want to have more positive match ups on here since discussion only really happens when someone complains about some character and from at least my knowledge of Ivysaur I find the old ranking of even to be incorrect.

thats good to know because i hate the roy vs ivy mu and theres a pretty damn good ivy here in bellingham

 

[DrinkingFood]

I'm kinda inclined to agree, ROB has the tools to punish aerial commitment at a decent distance and that's Ivy's main spacing tool, plus gyro>razor leaf and Ivy isn't fast enough to punish us or steal gyro as we get it out. She also can't really respond to boost fair pressure or boost aerial cross-ups, and her punish game isn't particularly spectacular on us while we have typical fair/uair juggles on her. She's also vulnerable to CC with her few spacing options which happens to be an area ROB shines in. You can use gyro to help cover her tether options but overall she's better at forcing low recoveries on us and executing successful edgeguards than we are on her, but not by a whole lot, and we have everything else on her.

Fun fact, Charizard, squirtle, and Ivy are all the same gravity/fall speed. ROB is also really close to them in terms of fall speed/gravity. Closer to them in fact than he is to Samus. ROB is really more of a semi-floaty than a floaty.

 

[Sneez]

good job at aftershock df! lots of people in socal is talking about the 4 stock on westballz lol. and ya im pretty sure the ivy matchup is real good for rob, ive played mach and he ended up switching to ddd after a couple games. really just gotta watch out for the bair offstage but overall ivy just doesn't seem very threatening to rob.

 

[DrinkingFood]

I'm actually not totally convinced DDD is a bad matchup for ROB. I wouldn't be surprised if it WAS, but I think really what needs to happen is people need to start understanding DDD's neutral before they can really address playing against him as ROB. It seems like DDD's neutral honestly ****s over a lot of people because there's no other character that plays neutral from so far above the stage in such a non-committal way lol. The closest thing is Jiggs but she doesn't hit like a truck, doesn't generally go as high or come down as quick, and can be CC'd or traded with, and doesn't have something to throw down at an angle, DDD's neutral is much more vertical and waaaaay out of line with the way other characters play in smash. He's a gigantic outlier so really I feel the matchup (or any matchup with DDD really) probably needs to be better explored.
I mean, if you want to put it down as advantage for DDD go ahead, but we should be prepared to adjust it because he's just another one of those confusing characters whose gameplan is hard to understand or theorycraft against

 

[BlackMamba]

I'm actually not totally convinced DDD is a bad matchup for ROB. I wouldn't be surprised if it WAS, but I think really what needs to happen is people need to start understanding DDD's neutral before they can really address playing against him as ROB. It seems like DDD's neutral honestly ****s over a lot of people because there's no other character that plays neutral from so far above the stage in such a non-committal way lol. The closest thing is Jiggs but she doesn't hit like a truck, doesn't generally go as high or come down as quick, and can be CC'd or traded with, and doesn't have something to throw down at an angle, DDD's neutral is much more vertical and waaaaay out of line with the way other characters play in smash. He's a gigantic outlier so really I feel the matchup (or any matchup with DDD really) probably needs to be better explored.
I mean, if you want to put it down as advantage for DDD go ahead, but we should be prepared to adjust it because he's just another one of those confusing characters whose gameplan is hard to understand or theorycraft against

Mm I agree, based on my experience with the matchup I actually really thought it favors ROB lol

 

[Sneez]

ya ddd is so wonky and i don't have enough experience against him to be confident. what do people think about the zard mu? i feel like it really could be bad for rob since zard does a lot of tech chasing from dthrow and dair, and rob has a tough time since his tech rolls are so bad. plus zard's aerial mobility is pretty good and he's able to keep up with rob and chase him high in the air.