Usmash kill percents

[-Mars-]

Did some testing yesterday on Zeldas utilt vs. Snakes. It's almost as powerful as Snakes utilt....but Snakes beats it by just a few percent. We should probably stop telling people that Zelda's is stronger.

Anyways, someone requested usmash killing percents or whatever so I got a few done yesterday, i'll have all of them in a little while.

Mario 106%
Luigi 105%
Peach 98%
Bowser 119%
DK 120%
Diddy 103%
Yoshi 109%
Wario 110%
Link 112%
Zelda 96%
Sheik 94%
Ganon 119%
Toon Link 99%
Samus 109%

This is with no DI. If you have any sort of imagination or reasoning skills i'm sure you can just tack on 8-10% to come up with your realistic percentages.

I am now completely convinced that Sheiks usmash is far stronger.

 

[Kataefi]

I saw on another thread on the tactical forums that said Zelda's uptilt beats his out by like 2% or something :/

Just how broken can snake's utilt get?

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Did some testing yesterday on Zeldas utilt vs. Snakes. It's almost as powerful as Snakes utilt....but Snakes beats it by just a few percent. We should probably stop telling people that Zelda's is stronger.

Anyways, someone requested usmash killing percents or whatever so I got a few done yesterday, i'll have all of them in a little while.

Mario 106%
Luigi 105%
Peach 98%
Bowser 119%
DK 120%
Diddy 103%
Yoshi 109%
Wario 110%
Link 112%
Zelda 96%
Sheik 94%
Ganon 119%
Toon Link 99%
Samus 109%

This is with no DI. If you have any sort of imagination or reasoning skills i'm sure you can just tack on 8-10% to come up with your realistic percentages.

I am now completely convinced that Sheiks usmash is far stronger.

well, if you don't hit with the top of utilt, it sends at an angle, which is more survivable than snake's which sends straight up no matter where you hit with it.

I never did any testing though, Inui just said that when I killed him with it. I didn't have any reason not to believe him

 

[Villi]

I never did any testing though, Inui just said that when I killed him with it. I didn't have any reason not to believe him

Scientific doubt. What does Inui know except that it killed him.

Edit: Implying that the top of uptilt doesn't launch at an angle like the rest of the hitbox sounds like more random misinformation, too.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

well, if you don't hit with the top of utilt, it sends at an angle, which is more survivable than snake's which sends straight up no matter where you hit with it.

I never did any testing though, Inui just said that when I killed him with it. I didn't have any reason not to believe him

False. Utilt always sends at an angle naturally.

Also, taking Inui's word for anything is just asking to be misinformed.

 

[Iris]

U-tilt allows for a lot of DI. Is has the capacity to kill significantly earlier than U-smash, but it's impractical against some one who can DI effectively.

Just save your U-smash. It's easy enough to hit with and doesn't allow significant DI, except for opponents who have escaped it. Sheik's U-smash is incredibly difficult to kill with once you've lost the ability to f-tilt lock, so Zelda's is still more practical.

 

[Bandit]

So you are suggesting save one of Zelda's best damage rackers for a kill when she has 9 total kill moves? Not necessary if you ask me.

 

[Iris]

U-smash is one of he most reliable however. Also, it's not hard to refresh the queue with d-tilt locks, d-smashes, n-airs, and earlier kill attempts with f-airs and b-airs, all which are frequent damage builders and are more likely to be used just prior to when U-smash will be able to send them over the top.

I'm not saying you have to save it, but when you have opponents who can avoid Zelda's aerial sweetspots, there's not much else that's reliable and low risk. It's a great fallback option for earlier kills.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

hmm odd... well since it sends at an angle, it probably has more TOTAL knockback than snake's utilt, but it isn't as useful because it doesn't kill at as low of percentages. oh well... does it really matter? they are about the same strength, that much is true for certain.

 

[Iris]

Strength and kill power are two very different things though. Spiking is a good example.

Zelda's u-tilt allows too much lenience in DI, and though it may have good knockback, the trajectory keeps people alive for far longer than her U-smash.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Strength and kill power are two very different things though. Spiking is a good example.

Zelda's u-tilt allows too much lenience in DI, and though it may have good knockback, the trajectory keeps people alive for far longer than her U-smash.

far longer? hardly. especially considering it's impossible to DI out of utilt and that it's normally much fresher

 

[SwastikaPyle]

What stage did you do this testing on?

 

[Rykoshet]

Assuming you have a reasonable way to replenish a moveset (and zelda does), saving a move that sets itself up at low percents, follows up rather nicely all around, and builds up quite a large amount of damage when it's used seems kind of unnecessary, when you get to around the high 60's and upwards, just abuse your down tilt upon ocnnection and follow it up with a grab with 2-3 pummels if necessary. Your up smash will be replenished. Granted this isnt as easy as, say, fox just blasting someone with lasers to get his amazing up smash back in play but the setup is essentially not that much different from jabbing/grabbing to do the same thing.

 

[Villi]

^^^ Yus.

Btw, you can't really expect someone to not DI it correctly. If the move didn't take 2 minutes to complete, maybe someone might forget, but prolly not.

Some characters DI it better than others, e.g., Falco survives longer than Diddy with good DI despite lighter weight. Plus, if you mess up and don't get the kill, you just rather severely reduced Up smash's knockback by decaying it.

Zelda's u-tilt allows too much lenience in DI, and though it may have good knockback, the trajectory keeps people alive for far longer than her U-smash.

It's like a ~12% difference if both are DI'd well.

 

[Iris]

Yeah, that's pretty significant.

U-tilt's saving grace is simply that your opponent will have less time to plan for optimal DI.

 

[Bandit]

If you know what you are doing, then this isn't even a problem. Utilt is usually setup and used in a combo. Usmash stands alone. We all know Usmash is a better move and debating it being better than Utilt in any fashion is useless. I know Utilt will get me a reliable kill if I set it up at the right percents, and I know Usmash will damage rack the hell out of my opponents unless it is fresh than I kill with it. It's not hard and debating this, again, is something we all kinda know anyway.

 

[DarkThundah]

Anyways, someone requested usmash killing percents or whatever so I got a few done yesterday, i'll have all of them in a little while.

Thank you so much (that was me). Like I said I would have done it myself but my roomie took the wii.

Sheiks upsmash may be stronger, but dont you have to sweet spot it?

 

[sniperworm]

Thank you so much (that was me). Like I said I would have done it myself but my roomie took the wii.

Sheiks upsmash may be stronger, but dont you have to sweet spot it?

Indeed, in order to get the vertical kill power you need to tip with it. However, the power difference seems fairly substantial. That and they still have Zelda's Usmash to fall back on if there Usmash fails to tip (or double hits).

Has anyone tried using Sheik to kill when Zelda's kill moves are heavily decayed? I've been toying with the idea since at those percentages any decent hit from Sheik will at least send them far enough where you can transform back to a fresh Zelda...

 

[-Mars-]

What stage did you do this testing on?

FD

Thank you so much (that was me). Like I said I would have done it myself but my roomie took the wii.

Sheiks upsmash may be stronger, but dont you have to sweet spot it?

Yes, but if you spam your ftilt enough, ftilt will lead into a tipper at kill percentages on every character. It's guaranteed and really not all that hard to do. If any of you are into Sheik at all, I suggest you check out Ankoku's thread on the ftilt information Ryoko shared with him.

Indeed, in order to get the vertical kill power you need to tip with it. However, the power difference seems fairly substantial. That and they still have Zelda's Usmash to fall back on if there Usmash fails to tip (or double hits).

Has anyone tried using Sheik to kill when Zelda's kill moves are heavily decayed? I've been toying with the idea since at those percentages any decent hit from Sheik will at least send them far enough where you can transform back to a fresh Zelda...

Your correct, Tristans thread has Sheiks tipper killing characters at like Fox-usmash percentages.

Actually sometimes it's easier getting inside of someone for the KO as Sheik, so occasionally I have switched to Sheik at high percentages for the kill.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Hit utilt in places where DI'ing out results in a side KO anyway and it's win win. You'll want to use ftilt in a similar manner when you can be arsed to KO with it.