using Lucario to beat Marth (or is there anyway to beat a Marth)

[Dark Paladin X]

I did manage to beat a level 9 CPU Marth (and it was really hardm but I did manage to beat Marth) and it seems that Marth is a bit overpowered. For some reason, Marth's attacks have higher priority than Lucario's and the so called "tippers" have very high damage and knockback and are pulled off quickly (In fact, I kinda see Marth [as well as Solid Snake] as being overpowered, more overpowered than Meta Knight and it appears that it is difficult to approach Marth without being hit by his tipper). but one of my main concerns is avoiding his down aerial spike and fear that if I get hit by it, then it is impossible for me to recover. Don't tell me that Marth is better tha Lucario (with 40:60 disadvantage crap or in Marth's perspective, 60:40) and don't tell me Lucario is in a lower tier than Marth (again I don't follow tiers, as I believe it is a form hiearchy where players who choose lower tier characters such as Captain Falcon in tournaments are frowned upon. Remember, all characters are created equal, each have some advantages and disadvantages).

I was asking this because my cousin likes to play as Marth in SSBB (although he mostly spam Dancing Blade, neutral/forward tilt attack, and Forward Smash, but he does use other attacks depending in situations) and in case if I come across a Marth while playing a SSBB tournament in my college/community, I want rip Marth into smithereens. I feel that Marth is so overpowered that nearly nothing can beat Marth.

Note that Lucario, like Marth, is a popular option in tournament play and like Marth, Lucario have good combo and juggling skills. And Lucario gives more pain the more pain Lucario takes.

P.S. Lucario= Pokemon version of Chuck Norris.

 

[phi1ny3]

I did manage to beat a level 9 CPU Marth (and it was really hardm but I did manage to beat Marth) and it seems that Marth is a bit overpowered. For some reason, Marth's attacks have higher priority than Lucario's and the so called "tippers" have very high damage and knockback and are pulled off quickly (In fact, I kinda see Marth [as well as Solid Snake] as being overpowered, more overpowered than Meta Knight and it appears that it is difficult to approach Marth without being hit by his tipper). but one of my main concerns is avoiding his down aerial spike and fear that if I get hit by it, then it is impossible for me to recover. Don't tell me that Marth is better tha Lucario (with 40:60 disadvantage crap or in Marth's perspective, 60:40) and don't tell me Lucario is in a lower tier than Marth (again I don't follow tiers, as I believe it is a form hiearchy where players who choose lower tier characters such as Captain Falcon in tournaments are frowned upon. Remember, all characters are created equal, each have some advantages and disadvantages).

I was asking this because my cousin likes to play as Marth in SSBB (although he mostly spam Dancing Blade, neutral/forward tilt attack, and Forward Smash, but he does use other attacks depending in situations) and in case if I come across a Marth while playing a SSBB tournament in my college/community, I want rip Marth into smithereens. I feel that Marth is so overpowered that nearly nothing can beat Marth.

Note that Lucario, like Marth, is a popular option in tournament play and like Marth, Lucario have good combo and juggling skills. And Lucario gives more pain the more pain Lucario takes.

P.S. Lucario= Pokemon version of Chuck Norris.

1: Hi again Dark Paladin
2: Don't judge by a lvl 9 CPU.
3: Yes, Lucario has the disadvantage, if it is something like 60:40 though, it means that you can control more aspects to win (like stage pick).
4: Playing against marth is a bit tricky. Unlike most of our opponents, I feel that you do NOT want to space far away from marth, since your attacks stay relatively static in gain from afar, while Marth's get nasty. Get in close, shield DB fsmash, and fair. Jab, utilt, and fair will have need of use in this close up game for lucario, unfortunately though, you will need to learn to follow up with attacks, otherwise punishing can occur. Dair is good but watch out for utilt, which will hurt a lot of your approaches. AS is good for getting him to get to you, but know that he can fan and has ways of dealing with it. Lastly, remember shieldgrabbing, it will help if they mess up their spacing, and your fsmash > marths in range and fighting against shields.
Marth certainly isn't an overkill match, the matchup is going to rely almost as much on skill as the characters themselves.

 

[Pr0phetic]

Marth is surely not overpowered, and Lucario is a beast. I would know, I main him aswell.

Refer to the match-up guide on the Lucario boards, last time I been there I remember information on the Marth match-up. You can also check ours for input from Marth's and Lucario's on SWF aswell.

As we rack damage on Lucario, he gains power, and can become a powerhouse. His projectile is tricky and can camp, however not too efficiently. Never let the Marth catch too much momentum, its easy to get gimped. Umm for more check where I refered you X.x

 

[takeurlife2]

lucario outranges marth on land, and he also has a tipper... his moves dont stay "static" at a distance.

also, marth has trouble safely killing while lucario can simply ***** fsmash.

this matchup has more things in your favor than you think.

marth is overpowered? that's a laugh.

 

[phi1ny3]

lucario outranges marth on land, and he also has a tipper... his moves dont stay "static" at a distance.

also, marth has trouble safely killing while lucario can simply ***** fsmash.

this matchup has more things in your favor than you think.

marth is overpowered? that's a laugh.

Sure they do. Only fsmash/usmash increases in knockback from tipping, everything else has the same amount of damage and knockback from the body to the tip of the aura burst.

But yes, Marth has a hard time using safe kill moves.

 

[magikguy]

Only thing that bothers me from lucario , is his dammn f-smash it lingers right? In my opinion all you have to do is have a close range battle vs marth .

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

There is a way to beat Marth, pick MetaKnight.

 

[phi1ny3]

Only thing that bothers me from lucario , is his dammn f-smash it lingers right? In my opinion all you have to do is have a close range battle vs marth .

Yup, it lingers. The fact that lucario's attacks do as much damage from minimum as maximum in range means that putting space in between only allows marth to do more damage and knockback.

 

[Pr0phetic]

Lucario's Fsmash and Usmash hitboxes linger. Lucario is also pretty fast, especially his aerials.

 

[Noraa]

Rukkiko for top tier?

 

[phi1ny3]

Lucario's Fsmash and Usmash hitboxes linger. Lucario is also pretty fast, especially his aerials.

fsmash also has slight tipper properties (not in damage, but knockback). Besides, you want to smash with the tip, otherwise, they can shield grab you sometimes (especially DDD).

 

[magikguy]

wow dedede can grab your fmash , i thought it was the longest ranged move ;s

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

There is a way to beat Marth, pick MetaKnight.

Not an instant solution..

 

[phi1ny3]

wow dedede can grab your fmash , i thought it was the longest ranged move ;s

That's if you don't tip it, he can shield grab before he gets pushed too far. Tipped though, it doesn't happen. Its actually ok if you get it about in the middle, but it is always safer to tip the fsmash (I've been ***** by MKs and DDDs who patiently wait after, then ftilt (for MK) and grab (D3) while I was expecting a rush to grab by jabbing after.

Lol Emmy, I'm going to use one of your videos as an example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=it7umTNSFJw&feature=channel_page
at 00:48, notice that he shields it, doesn't even need to spotdodge or Perfect Shield -> grab.

 

[Pr0phetic]

Rukkiko for top tier?

Id **** MK. Oh, and Me and Marth will be the best team combination in the game.

 

[phi1ny3]

Id **** MK. Oh, and Me and Marth will be the best team combination in the game.

But ur final smash would be horribad, lol, for compensation.

 

[Pr0phetic]

My final smash would be an earthquake generated from the Harlem Shake (NY dance right there man.)

Umm has this guy been checking up on the thread? I think we helped him witht this matchup now.

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

Not an instant solution..

MetaKnight is the solution to everything.

When I get the question "What is the volume of the solid acquired by rotating the area bounded by the graphs arctanh x, sinh x, and y=9 about the line x= -3?" on my Math 150 final on Wednesday, I'll just answer: MetaKnight.

 

[Alterhalo]

Id **** MK. Oh, and Me and Marth will be the best team combination in the game.

Shh i'll find you second period and hump you making an explosion instant death right there feel my manlyness YES!

 

[Pr0phetic]

Shh i'll find you second period and hump you making an explosion instant death right there feel my manlyness YES!

Too much jail manlyness. Eh i wanna play someone with Marth and Lucario now -_-

 

[Alterhalo]

If I had my wii with me we could practice marth vs Lucario

 

[Emblem Lord]

I did manage to beat a level 9 CPU Marth (and it was really hardm but I did manage to beat Marth) and it seems that Marth is a bit overpowered. For some reason, Marth's attacks have higher priority than Lucario's and the so called "tippers" have very high damage and knockback and are pulled off quickly (In fact, I kinda see Marth [as well as Solid Snake] as being overpowered, more overpowered than Meta Knight and it appears that it is difficult to approach Marth without being hit by his tipper). but one of my main concerns is avoiding his down aerial spike and fear that if I get hit by it, then it is impossible for me to recover. Don't tell me that Marth is better tha Lucario (with 40:60 disadvantage crap or in Marth's perspective, 60:40) and don't tell me Lucario is in a lower tier than Marth (again I don't follow tiers, as I believe it is a form hiearchy where players who choose lower tier characters such as Captain Falcon in tournaments are frowned upon. Remember, all characters are created equal, each have some advantages and disadvantages).

I was asking this because my cousin likes to play as Marth in SSBB (although he mostly spam Dancing Blade, neutral/forward tilt attack, and Forward Smash, but he does use other attacks depending in situations) and in case if I come across a Marth while playing a SSBB tournament in my college/community, I want rip Marth into smithereens. I feel that Marth is so overpowered that nearly nothing can beat Marth.

Note that Lucario, like Marth, is a popular option in tournament play and like Marth, Lucario have good combo and juggling skills. And Lucario gives more pain the more pain Lucario takes.

P.S. Lucario= Pokemon version of Chuck Norris.

IT BURNS!!!!!!

IT BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURNS!!!!!

ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGH!!!!

*clutches eyes in agony.

 

[feardragon64]

^EL not everyone can be a good gamer.

You have the face the fact that there are more scrubs in the world then there are non-scrubs....

 

[Alterhalo]

He will get better hopefully...or maybe his CPU's are really beasty?

 

[Shaya]

My CPUs are pretty beastly.

Id seriously send out my CPUs in a tournament. I wish you could do that or something. (Lol carry around my wiiiiiiiiii).

Over 50 billion hours of tournament play on it makes CPUs generally interesting. But I doubt everyone gets that.

 

[Alterhalo]

My Mario CPU is super beasty and my olimar I guess it's because they copy people I played against. My marth Cpu is okay, My Diddy kong keeps trying to glide toss and my MK CPU walks into walls...

 

[Mazaloth]

The thing about Marth is that he has horrible air game if he is about you.
That gives you an exellent advantage because of you godly throws, and good Fair and Uair.
Keep him in the air above you.

Another thing is that if you get behind Marth, he has very little options, and Lucario has an fast precise strife. Use this to get around Marth.

 

[Alterhalo]

I also hate that jab jab side b grab it's a pain in the ***
You should try it against marth it gives good damage and you can do it at high percents on wifi atleast Idk about no wifi

 

[Timbers]

lucario outranges marth on land, and he also has a tipper... his moves dont stay "static" at a distance.

The only thing Luc has on ground that outranges Marth is fsmash, and it's like 2x slower than anything Marth has. Still a great move for this match but you can't exactly parade around about it.

fsmash also has slight tipper properties (not in damage, but knockback). Besides, you want to smash with the tip, otherwise, they can shield grab you sometimes (especially DDD).

tipper adds damage. At 0% no tip is 9%, tip is 11%...iirc

IT BURNS!!!!!!

IT BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURNS!!!!!

ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGH!!!!

*clutches eyes in agony.

i love you

 

[phi1ny3]

The only thing Luc has on ground that outranges Marth is fsmash, and it's like 2x slower than anything Marth has. Still a great move for this match but you can't exactly parade around about it.

tipper adds damage. At 0% no tip is 9%, tip is 11%...iirc

i love you

My bad, didn't get that clear (too bad the damage isn't as pronounced as the knockback).

Oh, and about AA FP, only works sometimes (I would say for Timbers "use A FP/A grab", but I've found with characters like MK, Bowser, and Marth who have nasty upB punishers, that it doesn't always pay to do so). There's actually a moment where you can DI out of it for most characters (especially DDD, as seen in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oECew6wDH98)
don't worry, Azen does better later in the set, but it's pretty bad for this match.

 

[takeurlife2]

The only thing Luc has on ground that outranges Marth is fsmash, and it's like 2x slower than anything Marth has. Still a great move for this match but you can't exactly parade around about it.

tipper adds damage. At 0% no tip is 9%, tip is 11%...iirc

i love you

cario's fsmash has a few start up frames ill give it that, but it takes like no frames to finish. i cant tell you how many times i tried to run in after a cario fsmash to punish and just ate another one or got grabbed.

It is also pretty beastly in this matchup as far as shut down goes, seeing as it can hit you during a short hop.

it would be nice to have a kill move you can do over and over...