USB Gecko is the new Action Replay! (added potential goals)

[Taymond]

Well I didn't really say anything about your sentence structure. I meant logically ill-formed. I did mention your unnecessary attitude, yes, because you claimed you didn't have one.

I will agree that in many ways, Gimpyfish has had a negative impact on a large portion of the masses here. But not everybody needed him to point out the problems that Brawl genuinely does have. He has an inexplicable flock of devotees, yes, but he didn't say anything in the thread I assume you're referring to that wasn't true, as far as his descriptions of Brawl. Conjecture about the future is merely conjecture, yes, but his premises were all legitimate.

Gecko's other uses, like frame data acquisition, are in fact just in time. There's no too early to be learning everything we can about the game, and that data would be incredibly helpful to start cataloguing. Even this use isn't really as preemptive as you want to believe. Even if some people do this, it doesn't even come close to spelling the end of Brawl. The majority of people who decide to give this a try will probably still play normal Brawl plenty. A few small communities might develop that are truly devoted to this, and sure, the occasional single player who decides to, with his 3 friends, only ever play this again, but those people don't impact the larger community any substantial amount. The kid and his 3 friends probably weren't going to play much competitive Brawl or give much back to the community to begin with. The loss of a thousand players really won't hurt Brawl or SWF in the slightest.

And we really don't need Gimpyfish to tell us what's wrong with Brawl. Some stuff, like tripping, is plain as day. What's the real harm in a few people modding the game to lose it? It's hardly defensible in the first place. Regardless, this competitive standard will absolutely be the minority by far, so you need to stop acting like this thread is the harbinger of death for the Brawl you love. I'll still happily play the same game as you, hell I'll happily play it with you, even if I decide to pick up a Gecko in a few months or something, and the majority of people interested in this will too.

Most people seriously interested in the community and competitive Brawl won't limit themselves solely to a minority choice like this.

 

[mangodurban]

thanks for no flames, i agree with the tripping, I could see it go, but not the hitstun. not yet. Hopefully your right about the small circles, however, Ive been to modded tournys for other games, and its not fun to play on a new engine against someone whose used it many times. I dont know, it may be preference but ive seen too much potential in the time ive spent, but do what you will, and/but if i end up having to play a modded tourny im going to **** a brick.

 

[R i p]

I don't have any problems against Brawl's physics really. I actually don't care about combos. But, I am interested in the possibility of nerfing projectiles, nerf/buffing some attack damage, and maybe, if possible, fix the whole any attack out of shield business. I really hate the camping element. I could see hit-stun being useful, but honestly I don't care nearly as much as camping / retardly weak moves. Oh yeah, no tripping either.

 

[SSJ4Kazuki]

No one would go to tournaments if you had to play an entirely different game.

"Hey, cool looking Halo 2 tournament!"
"Wait WHAT? You're playing Smash Bros.!? I'm out of here!"

EDIT: I hope nobody closes this thread, the argument is pretty entertaining to read

 

[PwnyRide]

"Hey, cool looking Halo 2 tournament!"
"Wait WHAT? You're playing Smash Bros.!? I'm out of here!"

EDIT: I hope nobody closes this thread, the argument is pretty entertaining to read

But i get the gist of why he's completely wrong.

This will be a good thing if it allows access to the debug menu, since the Melee debug menu was so much fun

 

[Kraxil]

Trying to turn the game back into melee I see? Sorry, I don't like it. I don't see it being used in trounaments and used ony to gain advantages in wifi play.
I'd be happy with if it was only localized and couldn't be used to gain an advantage on players who don't have it.

 

[bluebolt]

tiers hacking is for queers

 

[DragonBlade]

I find it amusing that all the negative responses come from people who have joined post Brawl hype.

 

[SSJ4Kazuki]

I find it amusing that all the negative responses come from people who have joined post Brawl hype.

Now there's a man who knows what's what.
*Salutes person who's name coincides with a song by Kozo Nakamura which I quite like*

So, has there been any actaul progress in the "rndtripfix" direction? Or was this thread created to "build up hype" (Cause arguments)?

This sounds really interesting and all, but if they aren't actually making any progress then this pile of arguments wouldn't have been for any reason at all...

 

[Mann]

I don't see how this will affect online gameplay.

As for the Melee/Brawl arguments, it doesn't matter. People will continue to play brawl, and people will still continue to play Melee.

 

[Loyal2NES]

Well, this is certainly interesting.

While I agree that Brawl needs a LOT of retooling to be worthwhile competitively (serious bonehead move with the tripping), I just hope you guys don't go overboard with the editing.

I am HOPING that L-cancelling does not manage to find its way back - One thing Brawl did right is make the slow, heavy characters viable, and I can only imagine that giving them L-cancelling would seriously disrupt whatever balance this game has managed to achieve.

That said, whatever you do... be careful about it, eh?

[EDIT] While we're on the subject of editing, what else is being planned? Obviously fixes to thigns like tripping and hitlag, but would there be any plans on balancing the characters - As in, using the device for something not unlike patching?

 

[Percon]

I agree with Loyal2Ness said about changing things. All we need is no tripping and a little hitstun... then I think the game can flourish.

Though, the chances of this happening aren't as good as some may think. There'll have to be a couple really devoted hackers doing this. Unless it's easier than I think.

Anyway... I'd like to see there this goes. I like brawl as-is but those two small tweaks are hard to forgo...

 

[mangodurban]

dragon blade, ive been playing religiously since 64 you douche.

 

[flyinfilipino]

dragon blade, ive been playing religiously since 64 you douche.

Can you do anything besides call people names?

*expects a name-calling retort

 

[NDUDE]

I approve of this device!...for "****s and giggles" purposes only. Don't go screwing around online, etc. with this, and don't get too used to your..."customizations" in case you'll enter a tourney later.

Hm...I wonder if I can make Captain Falcon a god again...

 

[mangodurban]

yes, only if there not being a douche to me, if the are, then.....****.

 

[Kraxil]

I find it amusing that all the negative responses come from people who have joined post Brawl hype.

I also find your assumption amusing since I've been playing Super Smash Bros since the 64 and I have been lurking in this forum for months reading up on guides etc.


@Mann

Maybe I'm misunderstanding something, but if a person uses this USB plugin they can effectively change physics and gameplay mechanics. Would this not also include online play?

 

[Fugue]

A FEW WAKEUP CALLS FOR EVERYONE ABOUT GAME HAXXORIFYING:
(From a Computer Programmer)

1: L-Cancelling is not something that can just be 'added in.' Much too complicated for a simple hacking device like this without insane amounts of work. What we want for this is for there to be a debug menu left in the game, with an option to turn it on/off. Since there was indeed a time with L-Cancelling (E for All, wasn't it?), this option is still a hope, but not certain.

2: Random tripping should be possible to eliminate. No clue how you'd start searching for the value controlling it... probably using Ice and the Ice Climbers and Tingle or something. Still, entirely doable.

3: Hitstun... unless there's a global in-game hitstun modifier, don't expect this to change. Otherwise you'd need to do this on a move-by-move basis... way too many codes. Actually, there might be a per-character modifier or something, based on some of the item effects I've seen. This could go either way, I think.

4: Gravity should have a global modifier somewhere, since there are low/high grav modes. Doable.

5: Same with overall game speed. Doable.

6: This device would probably be able to modify online play, but it could do that regardless of whether or not it was used for modifying Smash tourneys. This isn't a valid argument. We're just finding an alternate, less damaging use for a device that already exists.

7: Price isn't much of an issue, unfortunately. Most serious fighting game players will own a "Stick," a fighting game pad set up like in the arcades (with the ball-on-a-stick joystick, you know what I mean). The good ones can easily cost $30-$100, but they're still used because they just make the game better.

8: Most importantly, this probably won't become a mainstream tournament standard. It's just too far out. I can certainly see small or indie tournies using it, but the major tournaments absolutely hate stuff like this, for various reasons.

 

[kamekasu]

It's not a breakthrough or anything. It'll be nice to use to collect framedata or for other information gathering tests, but don't fool yourself into believing that tournaments will actually modify the game.

 

[DarkShadowRage]

You people are still making a big ****ing deal out of tripping and all the "this game isn't Melee" bull****. Play the ****ing game, don't mod it. I'd rather lose all you **** idiots as players if you don't like the game than have you all **** it up by making it something it's not.

Cake is my hero

 

[Rebel581]

I'd give a little more time on tripping. While greatly annoyed at it personally, I can't figure out if it's doing the game good or bad. Think, Dedede's chain grab. Tripping prevents him from doing it consistently.

Also, you people are idiots. You know NOTHING about game balance. Messing around with the physics of the game that someone else who has seen and tested every single value, is extremely risky. Adding 1 frame more hitstun COULD break a game. I don't suggest changing hit stun or damage values at all. The only issue should be tripping.

 

[DragonBlade]

Ok, I would rather convince people with results, so I will focus on working towards them from now and remove myself from the debate of whether or not this is ok or how well it will work.

While we're on the subject of editing, what else is being planned? Obviously fixes to thigns like tripping and hitlag, but would there be any plans on balancing the characters - As in, using the device for something not unlike patching?

As Fugue said, we can't just go in and say "L-canceling on" with the gecko alone. A debug menu would be great and would make it a bit easier. If they really did leave all the e4all physics in (dash dancing, crouch canceling, lag canceling, etc.)in there somewhere, it would be very convenient. There will still be a lot of simple things to do that would help Brawl greatly, even if there was no debug menu.

As for patching for balance, I think it could have potential once we get the tweaks working. I personally think constant character balance changes are not good for fighting games, because its its hard to be unbiased about it, and it doesn't allow the game to reach an equilibrium. With this in mind and the idea that its not possible to make the game perfectly balanced, I think it could be possible to improve some doomed low tier characters, but I wouldn't go as far as trying to 'nerf' good characters or 'buff' bad characters just for the sake of trying to achieve balance.

This will also be a good information gathering tool for frame data and things like that as people have been saying. We're also forgetting, with this we'll probably be able to play on some subspace stages in versus mode, which should be interesting. There would probably be about 20 different neutral stages if we included parts of SSE. Also, what if we could turn off environmental hazards on the existing stages? It opens up a lot of possibilities.

 

[SSJ4Kazuki]

What about "for fun"?

Some of the most hilarious matches me and Phil had in melee were "item spawn fests", and we even
eventually did items spawn on D-pad down (debug menu).

It was never broken, because if someone was spamming pokemon, all you do is change the pokemon switch to Goldeen (left/right on the d-pad).

We played in the all-star mode healing arena as players 2 and 3 (so the game doesn't end when someone goes into the middle) so you have to be at 700+ % ti die. I don't know about skill but it was definitely very reaction time based, as you needed to know WHAT was spawning at your feet at your command, and you had ultimate control over items. It eliminated all the randomness of items by making them skillful spawns.

I dunno, the ability to do something like that in a game with SO much more content... unthinkable.

It'll be awesome.

 

[DragonBlade]

What about "for fun"?

I'm way ahead of you. Although, I've only been talking about the Competitive Code Standard, I already have the Perfectly Casual Code Standard made, here is the pseudo code:

- [start game]
- [game counts down]
- "3"
- "2"
- "1"
- "GO!"
- [start code injection here]
- winner = random( getNumberOfPlayers )
- DeclareWinner( winner )
- [end of code]
- "The winner is..."

I don't think its possible to make it any more casual than that, so I've dubbed this the Perfectly Casual Code Standard v1.00 Gold Final. What do you guys think?


But seriously, I think the USB Gecko has all sort of uses, and I think people will explore them all with time.

 

[Blaze924]

Can you hack the masterpeices with this so that there is no time limit?

 

[KernelColonel]

Not necessary at all

 

[homer2020]

I'd be willing to do this, not right away because I want to see how Brawl turns out and give it some more time before we do something like this. Now I'm no master at game hacking, but I don't think there would be a universal "hitlag" variable. I'm pretty sure each move would have to be done separately which will have an effect on balance, and some obvious bias issues. I think that some projectiles should be nerfed a little, less hitlag and damage for some of them to make camping a less viable option. Also don't know if it is possible but put some sort of shield lag. The gravity should also be changed slightly, not too much but just enough. However we have no idea how much any of this will have an effect on balance.

Again I need to say that we should give Brawl a little more time, although things are looking very gloomy, because no amount of testing will give more hitlag. People who say "Melee was out 7 years..." need to open their eyes that melee had no where near the amount of testers as there are now, also had no idea what kind of things they were supposed to look for, so unless something doesn't happen very soon, I'd love to give this a shot.

 

[-Linko-]

I'm way ahead of you. Although, I've only been talking about the Competitive Code Standard, I already have the Perfectly Casual Code Standard made, here is the pseudo code:

- [start game]
- [game counts down]
- "3"
- "2"
- "1"
- "GO!"
- [start code injection here]
- winner = random( getNumberOfPlayers )
- DeclareWinner( winner )
- [end of code]
- "The winner is..."

I don't think its possible to make it any more casual than that, so I've dubbed this the Perfectly Casual Code Standard v1.00 Gold Final. What do you guys think?

You know that actually exists on Melee, and it was called "Bonus Mode"?

And it was cut in Brawl... ZOMFG MELEE IS MOAR CASUAL THAN BRAWL!!1!

 

[Roller]

Dude... Online tournies are gonna go down the ****ter with this...

 

[VietGeek]

I'll try to *not* sound offensive, but I'll make no promises *prepares to rant*

It's somewhat ironic that I was browsing the USB Gecko forums today before I stumbled upon this thread. But wouldn't this completely break the "Friend Finder" though? It'll basically break online, except a few key areas. We've already seen and heard of the topics where people ***** on about how lacking online play is.

Hacking would further throw any bit of decency out the window. With Anyone would basically be unplayable (well, more so), Online Tournaments would probably face issues in terms of judging. I mean, with all the tournaments being thrown, how exactly would one be able to moderate all of them? I'm slightly ignorant of how the online tourney scene works, so please do educate me.

Aside from the immense amount of "good" things this device could do, the negatives of it would have a larger effect on the community as a whole. The biggest issue of this is that it will further separate the Smash community. We would then have Casuals, "Competitives," and "Competitives that play a modified Brawl."

What's disheartening is if the modified game format becomes standard (which is unlikely, but never say never), as it creates an artificial barrier that could prevent newcomers of the scene from entering (come on $50? I know you said the price might decrease as demand goes up due to reasons such as modding this game to be more competitive, but I somehow doubt that. In most cases, the device prices usually go up. It's likely that it's at $50 because the raw price of the device is not so far off, and they need to make a small profit).

The last part is how these slight changes could affect the metagame as a whole:

I'd give a little more time on tripping. While greatly annoyed at it personally, I can't figure out if it's doing the game good or bad. Think, Dedede's chain grab. Tripping prevents him from doing it consistently.

Also, you people are idiots. You know NOTHING about game balance. Messing around with the physics of the game that someone else who has seen and tested every single value, is extremely risky. Adding 1 frame more hitstun COULD break a game. I don't suggest changing hit stun or damage values at all. The only issue should be tripping.

I feel Rebel's skepticism here. Sakurai and co. tested hitstun and whatnot to the point where nothing was gamebreaking. Mind you, we may not like it, but we could possibly create something worst by attempting to change how it was intended. Nothing ventured, nothing gained I suppose, but the risks are apparent, same with L-canceling (L-canceling really doesn't need to be touched on since we're still all evened out on the playing field with or without L-canceling. It just divides those who know how to do it, and those who don't. Is that really necessary? Do you hate your family? Do you own any pets? Anything good happen today?

The ONLY thing that should be considered is the issue of tripping. Making Brawl become Melee 1.5 is an idea best left in our dreams. It is what it is, and what you presented in this thread is the ideal to almost completely tailor this game to what you envisioned for a minority group.

Of course I'm skeptical about it as of now, but we should all give it a chance, because it's going to happen anyway. How this goes is completely dependent on the code creators. This small godsend could easily result in a much larger disaster that's hell-related. But that's a story we could possibly tell our children, a story for another time.

 

[Roller]

I'm REALY pissed about this... Online will just be even worse than it is now....

 

[Sundown]

games good as it is, if you want to continue comboing like your playing melee in brawl you will get nowhere, try learning the new physics before you try to change it to melee. Or.......go back to melee. Combos exist in brawl and the hit stun creates more exchanged blows instead of 3 stocks of attempted gimp kills. Learn the game you ****, and keep that gameshark **** where it belongs, in your ***.

EDIT: SSJ4 and Darkshadowrage are correct, so all try to do this in a better more civilized way.

You, sir, are incorrect, and know very little about what makes a good fighting game.

 

[behemoth]

I will likely pm, but I would like to work on this. I am an experienced coder in 4 different languages, with specific emphasis on video game development.

I had been writing code for a smash brothers-like open fighting game engine, but this would take WAY less time.

please let me know if I can help.

 

[DarkShadowRage]

Join date: March 2008

Shut up fuking scrub

Because you are such a better person for insulting him? oh do tell.

 

[SSJ4Kazuki]

Join date: March 2008

Shut up fuking scrub

I already yelled at him, but it didn't include any swearing or even swearing filter bypasses.
Completely unnecessary.

 

[Sundown]

I already yelled at him, but it didn't include any swearing or even swearing filter bypasses.
Completely unnecessary.

True, i really need to learn to calm myelf when i read not so intelligent things, ill just edit my own idiocy.

 

[mangodurban]

hahahahahahahaha, sundown thinks your smashboards join date indicates your total smash time. Ok jr. calm down. Ive been playin since 64 and havent ever cared to put any thoughts into the smashboards, ive only viewed them. But when people kept badmouthing brawl in these early stages i decided to make a new account and actually verify my email so I could add my cents. To my quote you should take word, I know smash, I've been playing since 64 and Im all about competition. Now before you go calling people noob and basing that judgement on there join date, know, and i have no problem playing you and wrecking your *** in some brawl, and show you what the quote you used of me means. I would love to show you, and ill film it and put it on this boards regardless who wins, but trust me, you will lose.

 

[Sundown]

I really didnt take the time to read your text, but i already apologized for the idiotic post that i made, if you take the time to read the post above you, you will see that.

Anyway, i think you dont know that much about good fighing games, because you think its good that there is reduced hit stun that allows for "exchanging blows". That obviously means that you have no sense of what punishment in a fighting game means.

Anyway, as i said, i didnt read your last post, and i appologize for my idiocy in the first post i wrote adressing you... it was uncalled for, and my mistake.

 

[mangodurban]

dude, melee's hitstun is preference. It DOES NOT define a competitive game or fighting game. Really I dont know about other fighters but i know too much about smash. There are so many other factors that contribute to the competitiveness eg. mindgames. The lack of hit stun leading to more swaping of blows is saying ive had so many areal battles that led to ground where we both attempted to rack up damage through exchanging quick blows (not fluid combos) but a "combo" none the less. and there are many mindgames and other competitive factors going on in those fights. Im saying because you cant gimp as easy (like keeping in the hitstun) makes the game have more defense which means there is many more mindgames going on. You have to realize the hitstun is not what makes a game competitves, its trying to end your opponents life, mabey different from melee but ill go with it. I do not wish to contribute to this thread anymore, but i will defend flaming.

 

[SSJ4Kazuki]

I really didnt take the time to read your text

No. Don't ever start a sentence with that. By openly admitting tl;dr then posting a reply over 6 lines long invites your enemy not to bother reading what you wrote.

Anyway, i think you dont know that much about good fighing games, because you think its good that there is reduced hit stun that allows for "exchanging blows". That obviously means that you have no sense of what punishment in a fighting game means.

This man knows what he's talking about.
Mangodurban, fighting games with no hitstun, i.e. exchanging blows, is stale.
If you can't attack without being attacked, then why bother attacking?
This philosophy gives birth to the "camp'n'spam" mentality.
Thus making matches take far longer than they should, thus making the game get boring faster.

There are no new nuances that benifit the attacker. You have overpowered airdodges, and
tripping to destroy that one player that still uses dash attacks...

Add to that the extreme easiness of recovery, you don't even need to know how far your recovery goes anymore, it automatically grabs the ledge even on the way up
and you have very long and drawn out matches where Snake and Bowser can suvive upwards of 182%...

It might just be me, but I don't think Brawl is doing too well without items.
The new overpowered OHKO items were made to speed up the game... Because Sakurai knew it was slower... It's like on a basic level, Sakurai gave us even LESS customizability than Melee had...

I think we should be allowed to at least HAVE a look at what's available to be edited,
recoded, made into the perfect Smash game...
So what if we make a completely broken mess.
We can still undo.

We're not going to take YOUR copy of the game and use it for our genetic experiments.
We're not going to change the way YOU play the game.
Please try to understand that. Please don't tell us not to enjoy the game.