USB Gecko is the new Action Replay! (added potential goals)

[DragonBlade]

V1.0 Beta Five (Change log)

1. Wii Mode hooks (can hook Wii Games as well as Gamecube Games)
2. Gamecube and Wii Cheat engine with own custom code types (upload cheat code patches Gamecube and Wii!)
3. Cheat Engine running with debugging engine to allow realtime code edits (Run list)
3. Upload code added to Remote debugger (can now upload binary files to running memory)
4. Hex Mode added to debugger (Switch from Asm to HEX etc, can scroll up and down hex windows also in memory!)
5. Wii Screen shots working

Cheat code system, code types and information can be found on the forums, tutorials for these will be added to the site download section very soon.

It's still in the early stages now, but pretty soon we will be setting the tripping probability to 0, the hitlag to X, the gravity to Y, etc. Brawl may have replayability after all. Here is the website and the forum.

We could feasibly set a group of codes as a competitive standard, and it could very easily be better. I hope people are open to the idea, even though we didn't need to in Melee. We can no longer deny Sakurai programmed Brawl as an exclusively party game, but we can now undo it bit by bit, memory value by memory value...


Goals for 'official' physics changes:

Goal Set 1 (no balance testing necessary and straightforward to implement)
- remove tripping
I don't think this requires balance testing and should be doable.

Goal Set 2 (heavy balance testing necessary and straightforward to implement, probably)
- increase hit lag
- increase shield lag and/or decrease shield hit stun
- increase overall gravitational constant
These changes are intended to shift the ratio of offensive to defensive options and restore true combos. Right now this ratio is too low. The increased hit stun would make it easier to string attacks together (i.e. combo) and encourage players to approach more. The second change is intended to increase the lag while shielding an attack and/or decrease the delay the attacker experiences when hitting a shield in order to reduce the overall effectiveness of shielding slightly. The gravity increase will make escaping from a combo and recovering slightly more difficult. It is likely the new gravity will be somewhere between heavy Brawl's and normal Brawl's gravity. People say this is not a good idea because characters with multiple jumps will become less effective. However, I think the increased hit lag can balance this out. The shorter jumps these characters have should balence out the ability to chain multiple aerials together because of the new hit lag if these values are set appropriately.

Both the character hit lag values and the gravitational constant can vary already in the game (stickers? that modify hit lag and heavy/light Brawl), so it should be possible to find these values in memory and change them as necessary. Hopefully, the shield attributes can be changed in a similar way.

Goal Set 3 (light balance testing necessary and difficult to implement, probably)
- take out the "auto recovery" feature
(reduce the "edge size" (maximum distance the edge can be grabbed) slightly)
(disable B moves from snapping to the edge before the end of the move)
- allow characters to immediately drop from the edge after grabbing and reduce the invincibility time gained from grabing the edge to balance this
- leave edge occupied for a short period of time after a character rolls back on the stage
- restore dash dancing
The auto recovery just removes an important element of smash games. Forcing people to think about how they recover and time properly will only add to the game. Dash dancing will allow for players more options in terms of spacing, and may possible restore the Melee style pivot also.

The basis of dash dancing is there in Brawl, but it does not let you gain distance, fixing this part could store the functionality as seen in Melee and the Brawl demo. Since characters cannot grab the edge out of most attacks, there must be some attribute they gain while attacking that prevents this. This attribute needs to be applied during recovery moves. The "edge size" probably an other value or values in the memory.

Goal Set 4 (probably too awesome to actually happen, but worth investigating)
- restore L cancel like functionality
Enough said.

Regarding possible character balance changes:
I would like to work towards making a large majority of characters playable competitively and prevent any single strategy from being completely broken. Basically, make changes only when characters are completely unusable or there are strategies that completely broken. Trying to take out tiers is unrealistic, imo.

Beyond these, I do not expect to make any more 'official' changes to the physics, because I think it would be best to keep it simple as possible while making the game more competitive, but I cant predict what people will find so it could change. If there is code that will restore wavedashing and it works well in a balanced way, I don't see a problem with adding it, and there might be more things like that in the future.

Why do these changes look like we are trying to turn this game into Melee?
Short answer: Because, we are.
Long answer: We are simply trying to make Brawl more competitive with as little changes as possible. Instead of pulling random ideas out of our heads that could make the game more competitive and testing them for long periods of time, it is easier to use what has been successful in the past (Melee). If we do run across something completely unique that makes Brawl more competitive without imbalancing the game, we may add it also.

Other Goals:
- debug menu?
- get frame data
- make the neutral stages from subspace selectable from versus mode
- increase replay time limit to 8-10 minutes
- enable full shield even on light button press (if there is no analog shield implemented)
Probably will be a lot more of these types of projects as more people start working on it.

Disclaimer: These changes may not be possible or may just never happen. They are just goals to focus on.

 

[Spire]

Holy mackerel!

 

[ihatemybrother]

This could quite possible be a disaster for the online part of brawl. Soon I will wonder why each of fox's lasers is doing 10 damage to me, and why Mario "seems" to have super armor on all of his attacks. Because of its pace, smash will be greatly affected by cheaters that cannot be easily detected. This may be great for offline tourneys, but may mean the end of respectable online play.

 

[DragonBlade]

We're loosing crappy online functionality with random people for a truly competitive smash game. You will still be able to play friends you trust. Note the wifi wars tournament had judges anyway. Its a win/win situation, imo.

 

[Wildman94]

but pretty soon we will be setting the tripping probability to 0

You realize if we do that then Diddy would have to be banned, due to his bananas causing errors when stepped over =\. It would be either that, or his bnanas become useless throwing objects.

 

[mangodurban]

games good as it is, if you want to continue comboing like your playing melee in brawl you will get nowhere, try learning the new physics before you try to change it to melee. Or.......go back to melee. Combos exist in brawl and the hit stun creates more exchanged blows instead of 3 stocks of attempted gimp kills.

 

[Ørion]

That might destroy online play, but it would be awesome for getting rid of tripping.

 

[DragonBlade]

You realize if we do that then Diddy would have to be banned, due to his bananas causing errors when stepped over =\. It would be either that, or his bnanas become useless throwing objects.

There is some trip probability every time a run starts. That is what we'll eventually set to 0. This should be independent of the trip induced from an object like the banana, so I think its possible to still let the bananas trip.

I'm sure there will be codes that cause bugs in the future, but these do not necessarily have to be part of the standard set of codes.

games good as it is, if you want to continue comboing like your playing melee in brawl you will get nowhere, try learning the new physics before you try to change it to melee. Or.......go back to melee. Combos exist in brawl and the hit stun creates more exchanged blows instead of 3 stocks of attempted gimp kills. Learn the game you ****, and keep that gameshark **** where it belongs, in your ***.

Hahahahahaha! I knew this would happen eventually. Congratulations for being the first noob to complain about it. People will play however they want to. If there is a group that enjoys a 'enhanced' competitive version of Brawl, then a code standard might not be a bad idea. You are free to play however you want, casually, competitively, or 'enhanced' competitively.

 

[Flayl]

You realize if we do that then Diddy would have to be banned, due to his bananas causing errors when stepped over =\. It would be either that, or his bnanas become useless throwing objects.

Diddy's bananas don't function based on probability.

 

[SSJ4Kazuki]

You realize if we do that then Diddy would have to be banned, due to his bananas causing errors when stepped over =\. It would be either that, or his bnanas become useless throwing objects.

Diddy's bananas are not even a trip.

Diddy's bananas (as well as the item, banana peel) causes "slip".

Tripping would be char.gotoAndStop("trip"); (in AS2.0)
and at the end of trip animation would be char.gotoAndStop("fall on ***");
Banana would be char.gotoAndStop("bananafall");, which would also lead to "fall on ***"

some attacks, like Snake's f tilt go straight to the "***" frame.

THIS THREAD IS AWESOME.

EDIT:

.go back to melee.

Stfu, go away, not needed in this thread kthxbai.

Combos exist in brawl and the hit stun creates more exchanged blows instead of 3 stocks of attempted gimp kills.

You're talking garbage, do you not see the game is less fluid like this? Or were you just never very good at Melee.

Learn the game you ****, and keep that gameshark **** where it belongs, in your ***.

Completely unnecessary. You don't think we've basically collected every bit of info possible about this game? In melee we were just playing the game. In Brawl, there are a team of experts literally trying absolutely everything in every possible situation. We have an awesome member, M2K, who comes up with charts of information pretty much monthly on every character in the game, in the most accurate terms possible, and this site is basically being used as a compendium of Smash information. There is little we don't know, and evidently not a whole lot to discover looking at the rate of discovery already.
Maybe we're just BORED of looking, which really didn't happen with Melee because of how (no offence) untested it was. Brawl has been tested, and mostly sterilised of physics engine abuse. Maybe we need to abuse the physics engine ourselves, and mould it into something that COULD lead to broken new tactics, and when we discover those, we could make a counter for every character to that tactic, it would be awesome, the game would be forever evolving, and nobody would be left mourning over something.

It'll be awesome. You'll see. You'll all see.

I fully support the USB gecko.

I've said a mouthful. Back to StepMania with me.

 

[Stratocaster]

This is great and all, but I have a hard time believing a $50 piece of equipment with all the proper codes on every wii at a tournament will be used. Also MLG won't support it, unlike melee. That might not matter to you though. There could be some trip-free, combo-heavy tournaments, and I do like the idea. It just seems impractical. I mean I HAVE to go buy one if I want to even be able to compete. I would need to practice...

What I really want to know is can you get frame and hitbox data. Thats what I'm most interested in.

 

[FerretStyle]

Good luck. I used to do this kinda stuff in my early 20s. Should be very interesting to see the results.

However, I predict that other than the educational aspect of it... it will be a tremendous waste of time. Most players would probably rather just play Melee than play a broken Brawl. But who knows, there is a chance that it might actually end up balanced and playable.

 

[DragonBlade]

This is great and all, but I have a hard time believing a $50 piece of equipment with all the proper codes on every wii at a tournament will be used. Also MLG won't support it, unlike melee. That might not matter to you though. There could be some trip-free, combo-heavy tournaments, and I do like the idea. It just seems impractical. I mean I HAVE to go buy one if I want to even be able to compete. I would need to practice...

What I really want to know is can you get frame and hitbox data. Thats what I'm most interested in.

It is sort of expensive now, because it is an obscure device. Not many people need it, but as it sells more I'm sure the price will come down. A $20-30 peripheral really wouldn't be so bad, would it?

Also, I would like to have a group that does an 'official' release of competitive Brawl codes based on testing, balance, community feedback, etc. We can all agree that tripping should be off, but beyond that, the other aspects will probably require lots of testing, feedback, and perhaps constant updates. Eventually, I hope it could get to a point where people could just download the newest package of codes and play, without much effort.

 

[Ojanya]

ZOMG. Add L-canceling, fix hit-stun, and we've got ourself a beautiful Melee 1.5 at least.

 

[crosser43]

This is a BREAKTHROUGH! If this works, omg how wonderful.

 

[mangodurban]

I am no noob, i support brawl and think all you are trying to do is turn it into melee. The game will evolve no matter how many "experts" you have. All your "experts" spent all there time getting to be the best at waveshine/anything gimp. Brawl takes that away, you may think im talking garbage but ive been playing smash since the beginning, and to say brawl wont be competitive is idiotic. If you want to do this then do it, however DO NOT make it the competitive standard. Brawl is awsome and so much evolution of the actual game would be avoided if everyone keeps playing melee with the brawl servers. Get your team of experts and go learn the new engine. Remember; brawl has only been out a few months and melee had 7 years.....It will take a while to get as used to brawl as we are melee. All the "common" melee strats came from years of video recorded gameplay. Give the new engine time, just think, what if someone had sugguested this on melee (make melee with a mod to be like 64) Because if I remember correctly we had many 64 veterans who were very thrown off by the new engine (just as all of you are now). Keep it to your circle, please.

 

[flyinfilipino]

I am no noob, i support brawl and think all you are trying to do is turn it into melee. The game will evolve no matter how many "experts" you have. All your "experts" spent all there time getting to be the best at waveshine/anything gimp. Brawl takes that away, you may think im talking garbage but ive been playing smash since the beginning, and to say brawl wont be competitive is idiotic. If you want to do this then do it, however DO NOT make it the competitive standard. Brawl is awsome and so much evolution of the actual game would be avoided if everyone keeps playing melee with the brawl servers. Get your team of experts and go learn the new engine. Remember; brawl has only been out a few months and melee had 7 years.....It will take a while to get as used to brawl as we are melee. All the "common" melee strats came from years of video recorded gameplay. Give the new engine time, just think, what if someone had sugguested this on melee (make melee with a mod to be like 64) Because if I remember correctly we had many 64 veterans who were very thrown off by the new engine (just as all of you are now). Keep it to your circle, please.

Telling people how to play the game is a very bad thing. Keep it to yourself, please.

 

[mangodurban]

thats what this thread is doing, im more than telling, im insisting brawl is good, did you even read my post. I dont want to go to a brawl tourny to find out I have to play melee glitch brawl.

 

[flyinfilipino]

thats what this thread is doing, im more than telling, im insisting brawl is good, did you even read my post. I dont want to go to a brawl tourny to find out I have to play melee glitch brawl.

Aren't you jumping the gun? A lot?

 

[Grandeza]

I'm all for taking out tripping but changing gravity will mean tournament goers will HAVE to get this and HAVE to change their gravity so they can practice in the different physics. It's for that reason I'd like to keep gravity the same. [/rant]

 

[mangodurban]

no, there is no gun, give me context when asking questions, because, sir, you are jumping the gun your self.......oh how can he explain this......... your jumping the gun in thinking brawl has no future and needs a USB Gecko in order to be playable, i end my responses to this thread in saying, let more tournys be played, at least a year, before we call brawl quits and go the meleebrawl. arsehole

 

[DragonBlade]

mangodurban, you don't seem to understand. Some of the best and most intelligent smash players have already analyzed the game and most have come to the conclusion it is no where near as good as Melee for competitive play. In contrast with noob opinion, wavedashing alone is not what made Melee competitive. Melee had the perfect combination of speed, gravity, hitlag, had a lot of very basic techs that added to the depth from the start (light shielding, crouch canceling, L canceling etc), and required more thinking than Brawl to play overall. Also consider how huge of an improvement Melee was over 64 for the combat engine. They added side B moves, light shielding, air dodging, more directions for throws, etc. All of this was known from the beginning, and the game only got better as people found out advance techs.

On the other hand, Brawl was more of a neutered version of Melee with a graphics update. The only new mechanics they bothered to add was gliding, swimming, ladder climbing, and proceeded to take out so much of what made Melee good, not just advance techs, and tried to simplify it as much as possible.

If that's not enough for you, Sakurai has openly admitted Brawl's combat was simpler than Melee's, and it was purposefully. Also, you should be able to notice the recent trend with Nintendo to make casual friendly games.

Thus it is very clear why something like the USB Gecko is necessary for Brawl's competitive playability. Also, its not like you will wake up tomorrow morning and suddenly we'll be done making Brawl competitive. It will take time, maybe ever a year.

Now, at this point, if you still think Brawl is perfectly ok for competitive play. You are either a troll or ignorant.

 

[Unseen_Killa]

You know what would also be cool? If you could get some of those balanced looking maps from SE in . Anyways, you wouldn't have to worry about it online, because if your playing randoms it would just desynch, however, if you were playing someone else you know has the same inputs as you, it wouldn't desynch.

Of course, getting something like this as a standard wouldn't be easy. And this thing would have to sell pretty well to get smashers to use it.

But anyways, I'm very interested.

 

[mangodurban]

If you think i dont know about smash then your far from the truth, Please, for the sake of brawl, give it more than 2 months and the people you say have run hundreds of tests, is only a handful of people, though they were the best in melee, brawl is way diff and I guarentee the old pros are back on the same level as alot of other smashers( im not saying noobs, im just saying combos work different and its going to take time) dont give up on brawl just from what a couple of "pros" said because I promise I have put in just as many hours as them in brawl if not more (i play alot), and its going to take more than just a few months and maby 6 good vids up for shared techs to be combined and developed. Im not declining your idea nor am I saying brawl is ready for competitive smash, im just saying melee was no where near competitve when it first came out. So.... lets wait a while before we give up on brawl. YOu have to see what im saying, please dont comment back saying brawl isnt competitive, because whoever told you that is simply "Jumping the gun", and if you believe me to be smash ignorant, please, understand I love smash and have been playing religiously since 64. I know where the complaining pros are coming from, but it just takes time, tournys, and youtube to develop a true brawl scene. I may end up embracing the Gecko if (after a few real torunys) i decide smash cant be competitive, but from the hundreds of hours ive put in on brawl, ive seen nothing but progress. The only true beef i have is tripping but, it has saved my life a few times so who knows.

 

[DragonBlade]

Well the thing is, Melee was more deep even at the beginning, like I said above. We knew about L canceling, light shielding, crouch canceling, and all sort of things shortly after the release. The speed and the combo potential was there, and strategies like edge guarding or sweet spotting to counter that were there. To make Brawl a legitimate alternate for competitive smash, it would have to catch up to how Melee was initially (which Brawl is already behind in), and it would have to make up for all the development that Melee had during the 7 years. Do you honestly think this would happen?

You also forget Melee is evolving too. There is probably more to be left discovered in Melee than Brawl, simply because Melee was less tested and more complex and Brawl was tested and neutered like complexity was a bad thing and simplified to the point where there aren't any interesting quirks to exploit. This makes it even less probable that Brawl is going to catch up, but if we help it along with a USB Gecko, we might get close enough to be satisfied.

 

[Tristan_win]

****, I'll be more the then willing to pay a extra 50$ if a large numbers of tournaments start doing this, however if we do start making changes to the game we absolutely cannot do anything to the basic play of the game it self as that would scare away newcomers.

We can though remove tripping and that by it’s self is worth every penny of this device.

 

[mangodurban]

how can you say theres more to be discovered in melee than in brawl, that sounds ridiculous to my ears.

 

[hippochinfat!!]

No one would go to tournaments if you had to play an entirely different game.

 

[DragonBlade]

No one would go to tournaments if you had to play an entirely different game.

Just like how no one would go to a DotA tournament because its entirely different from normal Warcraft III right? Someone should tell all these people: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=dota+tournaments&btnG=Search .

The difference is we did not get the tool to modify the game, which was unfortunate, but we have something almost as good now.

Btw: http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=dota&word2=wc3 (for the lulz)

 

[Taymond]

@mangodurban & hippochinfat!!, uh.. chill out? Respect other people's right to their own opinions and practices?

Firstly, you're wrong in claiming that this thread is telling people how to play the game. This thread is saying "Hey, for all of you who might like to play this way, we're working on it, just to let you know. So don't despair." What you are saying is "Do not play that way." This thread is making known an option that may soon exist in the future and asking for feedback from people who might be interested. This thread is not telling ANYONE they have to play this way, they're just making it an option to do so.

Secondly, there is no way this would become the competitive standard. Brawl is a very diverse game in its audience, and there are already going to be more than 1 competitive standards. This is merely presenting an option for a competitive standard, not the competitive standard. JackKaiser (probably wrong spelling) has done a lot of work on investigating an Item Competitive Standard, and he seems very resolute in the endeavor, and likely will not give up until the standard has gained legitimate popularity.

There will still be people who play the normal type of tournaments we play now. There'll be people who play Jack's way, Item Standard Play. And maybe there'll be people who play "enhanced" tournaments, too. This is not destroying options, it is attempting to create options. Enormous portions of the community will not be willing to do this, at least not exclusively. Many, many Melee professional players are satisfied enough with Brawl to put up with its flaws and play it professionally, the way it came out of the box. The existence of this "movement" does not mean that next week when you try to find a tournament in your state, you'll find nothing but "enhanced" tournaments. You'll find, most likely, some of all three mentioned standards, and possibly more.

The only people here trying to dictate how others play are... you guys.

And lastly, it's not really logical or fair to assume that if this motion gains any success, that the people who participate will never again play original Brawl. I'd consider buying such a peripheral if the price dropped and this gained legitimate popularity, because I think it would be interesting and fun. I still think regular Brawl is interesting and fun, though, too, and I'd still spend the majority of my time playing "normal" Brawl, because that's probably where the majority of players will remain.

Just.. chill out. People still play SSB64 tournaments. People still play Melee tournaments. People will play Brawl Select Items tournaments. People will play regular Brawl tournaments. Some people, throwing caution to the wind, will certainly even still play Final Smash tournaments, though probably not large-scale. And yeah, maybe people will play Enhanced Brawl tournaments, if the idea takes off.

So what? I don't think Brawl's a terrible game. I think a lot of poor decisions were made during production, but it's still a good game. It's just not all it could've been, I feel. So what if some people want to see what it would feel like to play Brawl a little more like Melee? You can't just tell those people "Play Melee instead," because heck, they wanna play Sonic, TL, a Zelda who doesn't blow, Diddy Kong, and a severely improved G&W. And if they have the desire and the means to do so, what harm does it do ANYONE if they do? What right could you possibly have to tell them "No."?


Oh and, uh.. in regard to the actual idea... like I said, I think it's interesting and innovative and great, and I'd personally consider buying the peripheral if the price were lower and the idea gained some popularity, but I don't see it being too widely adapted, in all honesty. So far, attempts to gain more Melee-like atmospheres (Heavy Brawl) have met with genuinely negative feedback from the community as a whole, but I will acknowledge that this attempt is far, far more viable and realistic and plausible than any that have come so far.

 

[mangodurban]

.......duh, im saying hold your horses, i dont care what they do, however, i care about brawls progression, and this step seems too early. (and i agree with you on alot of what you said) however ive been here and seen this same stuff in so many game progressions, COD3 got messed up through it and melee started out with the same attitude. I am in no way freaking out or needing to "Calm down". I have my opinion and i have told no one how to play the game, only presented my theory/point of view, so please, do not try to silence me, because its off topic and annoying.

 

[Sinistar]

The sad part is the Meleetards who ruin it

 

[fkacyan]

Sadly, no matter what we do, Peach will never be as good as she used to be.

/cry

 

[Lant]

Hahahahahaha! I knew this would happen eventually. Congratulations for being the first noob to complain about it. People will play however they want to. If there is a group that enjoys a 'enhanced' competitive version of Brawl, then a code standard might not be a bad idea. You are free to play however you want, casually, competitively, or 'enhanced' competitively.

Playing the game with tweaks =/= 'enhanced'. You are looking at the game as Melee and trying to make the game easier for yourself, and in the process unbalancing it.

I'll agree that it would be nice if tripping was out, yet that's the way Sakurai intended it (afawk) thus I'm fine with it. If it turns out to be a bug, well..

Ah yeah, incase you're looking at my join date and thinking "lol casual noob" ..Yeah. I've been playing Smash Bros competitively since 2000, and placed 2nd in a Melee tournament, not bragging of course, just figured I'd mention that I do know what I'm talking about.

 

[Taymond]

games good as it is, if you want to continue comboing like your playing melee in brawl you will get nowhere, try learning the new physics before you try to change it to melee. Or.......go back to melee. Combos exist in brawl and the hit stun creates more exchanged blows instead of 3 stocks of attempted gimp kills. Learn the game you ****, and keep that gameshark **** where it belongs, in your ***.

*laughs* I see. So, you start this thread off with an openly hostile post, containing no less than 3 curse words, but you don't need to calm down? You weren't telling people how to play the game, huh? You just calmly presented your opinion, eh? Yeah, I can see that...

The game will evolve no matter how many "experts" you have. All your "experts" spent all there time getting to be the best at waveshine/anything gimp. Brawl takes that away, you may think im talking garbage but ive been playing smash since the beginning, and to say brawl wont be competitive is idiotic. Get your team of experts and go learn the new engine.

Well, uh.. you horribly misconstrue the situation here. We're not all just sheep regurgitating what half a dozen "Professional" players tell us, the problems with Brawl are as plain as day, we can see them just as easily as anyone. Also, I'm not exactly sure what you think we've been doing all this time. We've been thoroughly investigating the Brawl engine. Thoroughly. And we have been since the moment of its release. This is how we've... discovered so many new things. So many particularities in Brawl's engine, and so many odd quirks that have potential for exploitation. Take a glance at Jewdo's new Compilation thread. What do you think our "experts" have been doing? Staring at white boards? Every single player here is out there playing the game, getting better, learning more, learning the subtle nuances of Brawl's engine and how to use them to their advantage. We're not all still sighing and just dash-dancing until we trip.

Remember; brawl has only been out a few months and melee had 7 years.....It will take a while to get as used to brawl as we are melee. All the "common" melee strats came from years of video recorded gameplay. Give the new engine time, just think, what if someone had sugguested this on melee (make melee with a mod to be like 64) Because if I remember correctly we had many 64 veterans who were very thrown off by the new engine (just as all of you are now). Keep it to your circle, please.

This argument could not apply less. It is a complete fallacy to use it anymore, it's been broken down so many times and explained why it's simply invalid. Brawl has had constant, extensive investigation done by hundreds of thousands of players trying to find any possible engine quirk they can for exploitation. We've dragged up an enormous amount of new knowledge about Brawl, and done so in a time that makes the pace of Melee look like a crawl. At the time of Melee's release, there was barely a fraction of Brawl's opening audience, of which an even smaller fraction had been competitive SSB64 players, of which even fewer had any mind to consciously search for new techniques, or even the understanding of how to do so.

We knew what we were looking for this time around. We knew how to look for it. We had thousands of times more players doing the looking. We have several already very well-developed communities for sharing and accumulating knowledge. Looking back at Melee's release, we were practically on all fours rubbing sticks together back then! We don't even walk anymore, we float, we've come so far beyond that point. We can create fire with but a thought. The two situations are in NO WAY comparable. Yeah, it took our ancestors a really really long time to discover fire, I'd imagine. But if a team of researches dedicated round-the-clock to the making of fire set out to do so, I really don't think it would take all that long.


Your arguments are tired and thinly-constructed, and you use false premises to arrive at wild conclusions about us and then judge us based on them.

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

I think a better use for this technology is to find frame data for this game. I want to find frame data but I don't have something like this that'll show hitboxes and slow the game down for this purpose.

 

[DeliciousCake]

You people are still making a big ****ing deal out of tripping and all the "this game isn't Melee" bull****. Play the ****ing game, don't mod it. I'd rather lose all you **** idiots as players if you don't like the game than have you all **** it up by making it something it's not.

 

[gnuf]

i think it = gaurantee win...

when you increase your damage and launch by 1-5%, it will be unnoticeable
also your knockback, and etc.

you will be the best online person ever!!!!!

EDIT: forgot to mention, if you add 200%dmg and launch distance to the leg, it will almost be equal to chuck norris round house kick!

 

[mangodurban]

taymonds an idiot, you dont know what i know, you think you know me, this thread is an atrocity, ok fine, ill tell you how to play the game...play the game, brawl. Do you support this thread or are you just wanting to argue with me. The truth is peoples minds are influenced by smashboards, how many people jumped on the brawl sucks train just because gimpyfish's brawl comments. If you say none your an idiot. However, argue against my point, which is the Gecko is way to early, not my sentence structure or my profanity, you ****.

 

[DragonBlade]

taymonds an idiot, you dont know what i know, you think you know me, this thread is an atrocity, ok fine, ill tell you how to play the game...play the game, brawl. Do you support this thread or are you just wanting to argue with me. The truth is peoples minds are influenced by smashboards, how many people jumped on the brawl sucks train just because gimpyfish's brawl comments. If you say none your an idiot. However, argue against my point, which is the Gecko is way to early, not my sentence structure or my profanity, you ****.

Taymond, myself, and several other people have refuted your point with multiple arguments. You should be the one arguing our points. I am afraid you are a complete failure at trolling, my friend.