Cruncher93
Smash Cadet
Anyone with the game on Wii U know if Peach still has no stale moves while floating?
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As a Mega Man player, Rush Cancelling isn't jarring at all IMHO. Even with Rush Cancelling, Mega Man is still having difficulty being accepted as a top-tier or even high-tier by a large majority of Smash 4 players. That should maybe indicate that either Rush Cancelling isn't nearly as bad as everyone thinks, or that Mega Man really, really needs Rush Cancelling ALONG with small additional buffs/no changes. From what I've seen, Rush Cancelling simply makes some match-ups like Mario, Sheik, and ZSS more tolerable. These characters still have tools that can deal with Mega Man anyways, letting them perform combos as well is just overkill and disgusting to the MU's. The only way I'll accept the removal of Rush Cancelling is if every other attack in Mega Man's arsenal receives a buff.RosaLuma respawn nerf is very welcome. Rush Canceling and similar tactics, while neat, are jarring. So it's good to see that being removed too.
I, too, am a Mega Man player. And I personally think the concept of Rush Canceling is jarring, because it pretty much rewards the Mega Man player the potential to freely escape a combo (which is something already not hard to do in Smash 4) with a mere button press, leading to lost rewards on the other player's behalf even if they did the right thing in a particular situation. Sure, it can be punished since it sends the MM player in the air, which is usually never a really good defensive position, but it is still something that looks silly mechanically regardless. Not to mention, Mario already has a somewhat rough time with the rest of the cast when he doesn't have his Custom Moves.As a Mega Man player, Rush Cancelling isn't jarring at all IMHO. Even with Rush Cancelling, Mega Man is still having difficulty being accepted as a top-tier or even high-tier by a large majority of Smash 4 players. That should maybe indicate that either Rush Cancelling isn't nearly as bad as everyone thinks, or that Mega Man really, really needs Rush Cancelling ALONG with small additional buffs/no changes. From what I've seen, Rush Cancelling simply makes some match-ups like Mario, Sheik, and ZSS more tolerable. These characters still have tools that can deal with Mega Man anyways, letting them perform combos as well is just overkill and disgusting to the MU's. The only way I'll accept the removal of Rush Cancelling is if every other attack in Mega Man's arsenal receives a buff.
Has this even been confirmed as removed though? We're talking a great deal about it but I haven't found a single source stating that it is gone.Speaking of which, if Rush cancelling / item cancelling is gone, is Diddy's hitstun-cancelling Peanut gun gone as well?
I'm just taking Tagxy's word for it:Has this even been confirmed as removed though? We're talking a great deal about it but I haven't found a single source stating that it is gone.
But I suppose I shouldn't since this is how rumors get started. You're right; nothing has been confirmed except for the R&L nerf to Luma's respawn time.From people who played smash 4 wii u at the hollywood release most things seemed the same, but they did take out
a) rush cancelling
b) item cancelling (link, toon link, peach)
c) something about greninja side b
d) some yoshi glitch stuff maybe? (speculative)
those are the only known differences but I expect the patch will match what changes are on the wii U. Theres speculation that other hitstun cancels will be out.
My main gripe with removing Rush Cancelling is that it gives combo-heavy characters a rather large advantage. You stated that a player should be properly rewarded for successfully landing a hit, which is quite ironic because Mega Man's non-kill moves have very little reward when they do hit in terms of comboing. Mega Man doesn't even get a proper BnB off his Down-Throw, the best follow-up at that point is Fair and even that can easily be avoided by double-jumping before Mega Man can hit you. What you listed doesn't make up for the ability to escape combos, you're screwed if you get touched unlike how it would be with Rush Cancelling. We need intense buffs if we get Rush Cancelling removed, since that is basically how Mega Man will get up to speed with the rest of the cast.I, too, am a Mega Man player. And I personally think the concept of Rush Canceling is jarring, because it pretty much rewards the Mega Man player the potential to freely escape a combo (which is something already hard to do in Smash 4) with a mere button press, leading to lost rewards on the other player's behalf even if they did the right thing in a particular situation. Sure, it can be punished since it sends the MM player in the air, which is usually never a really good defensive position, but it is still something that looks silly mechanically regardless. Not to mention, Mario already has a somewhat rough time with the rest of the cast when he doesn't have his Custom Moves.
I'm all for Mega Man being a good character, but I feel as though a player should be properly rewarded for successfully landing a hit. Even if that player is the opponent. And while Mega Man might not be a top or high tier character, I do feel as though he is a solid Mid Tier character.
Instead of Rush Canceling, more intuitive buffs could be made in its place. Such as Crash Bomber not passing back to Mega Man if it latches on the opponent, less startup lag on Leaf Shield and all other variants, a more reliable meteor hitbox on Hard Knuckle, and etc. These are all great chances without needing to be silly by design in order to be effective.
This isn't true though, Mega Man can't Rush Cancel everything. It's not like we enjoy getting hit by things like Little Mac Jab Combo, it's kind of embarrassing when Mac can just hold on to A after a jab, let go, and do more damage than our most reliable combos.I don't buy for a second that Mega Man for some reason just deserves to have no multi-hit moves in the game work on him.
Particularly just for the kool kids who know the secret button code.
Obviously Mega Man deserves to have it because he's FIGHTING TO SAVE THE WOOORLD.It passes the great Cocaine Logic litnus test with flying colors:
If this wasn't in the game, and someone proposed it, would everyone consider them insane?
I actually don't think so based on how Rush helps Mega Man escape in the Mega Man games. I think rush canceling certain moves like ZSS' fsmash is insane, but rush canceling out of jab combos, DK's grounded up-B, or Marth's side-B combos I could see. As of now, Mega Man still gets hit by multihit moves like MK's and Pit's aerials (I think)It passes the great Cocaine Logic litnus test with flying colors:
If this wasn't in the game, and someone proposed it, would everyone consider them insane?
So the logic here is that because other characters cannot perform this, Mega Man shouldn't be able to as well? I don't care if it's an oversight, bug, or glitch, people have got used to the vanilla form of Mega Man because it is the first form of Mega Man. The fact that it's unintended doesn't change the fact that it isn't OP, or else Mega Man would be a much better character. At this point, it's clear to me that Mega Man basically needs Rush Cancelling or buffing and that the balance patches should have been more about balancing the characters with the tech in mind, rather than just outright removing the tech from the game lazily.Character specific hitstun canceling should not exist. Full stop. Whether or not Mega Man needs buffs is a separate issue entirely.
Honestly though I think he's pretty good and can only get better with proper controls amplifying his spacing game with like C-stick jabs and Nairs.
Mega man doesn't need rush canceling to be competitively viable. Your bias is showing. There are many high level matches/matchups that don't even use rush canceling.So the logic here is that because other characters cannot perform this, Mega Man shouldn't be able to as well? I don't care if it's an oversight, bug, or glitch, people have got used to the vanilla form of Mega Man because it is the first form of Mega Man. The fact that it's unintended doesn't change the fact that it isn't OP, or else Mega Man would be a much better character. At this point, it's clear to me that Mega Man basically needs Rush Cancelling or buffing and that the balance patches should have been more about balancing the characters with the tech in mind, rather than just outright removing the tech from the game lazily.
He doesn't need it too much, I agree, but the option is certainly valuable and I'm not willing to give it up without a little polishing to what Mega Man can do with his other moves.Mega man doesn't need rush canceling to be competitively viable. Your bias is showing. There are many high level matches/matchups that don't even use rush canceling.
So much this. While the recovery is okay (still hilariously easy to gimp if opponents know what they're doing), his KO power is nonexistent.Buff Luigi's KO and recovery back to Brawl please, keep everything else the same. Then I'm set.
What would you suggest? The only thing I can think of would be less lag on leaf shield. Everything else feels great which is what the majority of mega man users want. Messing with damage output would keep him feeling the same, but make him too good, in my opinion.He doesn't need it too much, I agree, but the option is certainly valuable and I'm not willing to give it up without a little polishing to what Mega Man can do with his other moves.
...You do know it's probably already gone in the WiiU version right?If they took TLinks Bomb Cancel I'll shoot myself.
I'm not saying we should have everything listed below, they're just ideasWhat would you suggest? The only thing I can think of would be less lag on leaf shield. Everything else feels great which is what the majority of mega man users want. Messing with damage output would keep him feeling the same, but make him too good, in my opinion.
Just because people "got used to it" doesn't mean it shouldn't be changed. I understand you would like him to keep it and be balanced with that in mind, but that is ultimately just one person's viewpoint. Being a glitch or bug isn't necessarily a bad thing as there are good glitches (special cancels in SF2) and bad glitches (Gordos getting stuck). It's just that what you consider to be a good glitch, most other people agree is not.So the logic here is that because other characters cannot perform this, Mega Man shouldn't be able to as well? I don't care if it's an oversight, bug, or glitch, people have got used to the vanilla form of Mega Man because it is the first form of Mega Man. The fact that it's unintended doesn't change the fact that it isn't OP, or else Mega Man would be a much better character. At this point, it's clear to me that Mega Man basically needs Rush Cancelling or buffing and that the balance patches should have been more about balancing the characters with the tech in mind, rather than just outright removing the tech from the game lazily.
Are you sure? Not too big an issue since it's not that useful anyway on higher levels of play but having another option reduced always sucks.From what I know they changed Shadow Sneak so that you can't cancel d-air's ending lag with it anymore. So now punishing Greninja for missing d-air is going to be completely safe.
Supposedly it is indeed gone. Which is very worrisome to me. If Bowser's wavevdash/waveslash (whatever you want to call it), and Wectoring is gone ill be even more upset. I don't play any of these characters and never plan to but they make the game unique and add more tech skill that the game really benefits from. If Nintendo continues to patch out advanced techniques it could be bad for the competitive community and promote keeping things secret instead of spreading them. This is overall worst for the metagame.If they took TLinks Bomb Cancel I'll shoot myself.
Finding and researching tech though, now that's for REAL cool kidsHarsh Truth: "Tech" is cool-kid slang for "unintuitive inputs for degeneratively optimal options and behaviors that remove depth but make me artificially better than people who don't go on smashboards."