up-tilt? downtilt? over b?

[Drephen]

i was wondering on your guy's opinion was on a few topics

1.)uptilt - i dont see much use for up-tilt because it seems like up smash is better in range and knockback and the only reason i would use uptilt is too save the upsmash so it can actually kill

2.) downtilt i have no idea what to do with because of ledge invincibility and all.

you guys have any uses for these moves?

3.) over b - i have seen some marth players try and use the variations of the ->B to try to combo into other moves (like ending the last hit of the ->B with ^ and try to hit them while they are up in the air) if you know of any other things i would appreciate it a lot =)

 

[Steel]

Up tilt is great, especially if they are on a platform above you (though it also hits infront and behind you slightly). It has surprisingly great knock back when tipped.

Down tilt.. is amazing. It's a great poke move. It's fast. It's safe on block when spaced properly. It's a trap in itself, it's great for spacing, zoning, it's too good. Also dtilt leads to a free dancing blade.

Dancing blade doesn't really lead into any true combos, but the up version will definitely set up to a juggle trap. Just a random note, don't use the down version. It's bad.

 

[Lirok]

1. the up tilt has a hitbox in front of you, not just staright above you. u-tilt also has less start-up lag. greater hit-box and less startup, its a nice attack. it is punishable like the u-smash though.

2. i recently see that d-tilt follows landing after a fair, probably in variation to using the f-smash. the point is that d-tilt has less start up lag, and might be able to lead into combos. you are right that it isnt used for edge guarding though.

3. when they are at low damage, having the last hit of side be be the front hit might lead to another dancing blade. usually after they land, they will get up rolling away from you. you can just chase after them to do another dancing blades. up hit has better propability of combos i would say though.

 

[Rawrness]

I'd use the last V hit of DB to kill shields..

 

[DarkRunner00]

Up tilt is great, especially if they are on a platform above you (though it also hits infront and behind you slightly). It has surprisingly great knock back when tipped.

Down tilt.. is amazing. It's a great poke move. It's fast. It's safe on block when spaced properly. It's a trap in itself, it's great for spacing, zoning, it's too good. Also dtilt leads to a free dancing blade.

Dancing blade doesn't really lead into any true combos, but the up version will definitely set up to a juggle trap. Just a random note, don't use the down version. It's bad.

Agreed with first two.

Why is DB down bad? the fourth hit does most damage and has decent knock back.. Though if you miss it leaves you too vulnerable. But you should be able to read your opponent by the fourth hit.

... not reply*

I tend to just use natural combo for db. It's rely able and if you mess up it won't direct you to a DS or a counter which will leave you vulnerable. (though counter on accident does come in hand... mindgames! jk jk. it has helped though)

Utilt is better than Usmash in my opinion. knock back is good and throws opponents in random direction. It will kill. Umsash never kills for me. Utilt also carries a wide range of which will throw far. Usmash tends to only give good knock back when attacking from under (tipping).

Dtilt what he said. nothing can be expressed better.

Which can only emphasize the importance of Dtilt and DB (traps baby)

What juggling traps are there for marth?

 

[Steel]

Down is bad because a good player will easily DI out of it. Every time. Then punish you. Go for the sure damage with the forward or up version.

 

[Rave925]

were you serious when you made this thread? All three moves that you said are moves that should be used by a Marth players, especially dancing blade!

 

[Drephen]

were you serious when you made this thread? All three moves that you said are moves that should be used by a Marth players, especially dancing blade!

yeah i know they should be used i just wasnt sure how to use them and thats why i made this thread

 

[Lirok]

the down attack on the last part of dancing blades is probably the worst. they can DI out of it in most cases, and its sheild breaking abilities are overrated. i only use the down attack when they are dashing at me to punish the front, up, or no 4th extension of the attack (i dont run into that a lot, just some blunders people make). or i use it with a strange approach that consists of jumping and falling on them while using dancing blades.

 

[Steel]

were you serious when you made this thread? All three moves that you said are moves that should be used by a Marth players, especially dancing blade!

So you hate when people rag on the threads you make, but then you do it to other people?

hypocrisy ftw

 

[GPEternity]

Uptilt comes out faster than usmash and has surprisingly good killing capacity when tipped. It also reaches in front of you so if they step too close and do a punishable attack you can score a good fast launch that either kills or sets up a juggle. Its not something spammable but its a great punisher for those who stay into your face. and like they said, its great for people above you whether in the air or platforms.

I've never had too much success with dtilt because of my horrid spacing, but it is quite fast and leads into DB easily and its useful for harassing people.

DB is one of marth's best moves and its my second most spammed one. its only downside is that people can attack out of it if you don't input the attack commands fast enough (the hitstun is really friggin short, the 4 hits aren't even a true combo unless you perform it at max speed, which is hard if your worried about the first hit being blocked). But despite that its an awesome move. It's fast and an excellent punisher and both the forward and up variations have good killing power, it regenerates other moves (like fair we like that nice and fresh, smashes so we can kill with those if we have to). and since you can choose to launch up or side you can pick the one thats best for the situation. up combo for fighting on platforms with lower ceilings, or side combo for killing off the side near the edge.

 

[adumbrodeus]

i was wondering on your guy's opinion was on a few topics

1.)uptilt - i dont see much use for up-tilt because it seems like up smash is better in range and knockback and the only reason i would use uptilt is too save the upsmash so it can actually kill

Keeps them in a better position to rush, wheras up-smash is a clearing move. Also there's a great do less start-up lag for uptilt (frame 6 versus frame 12/13).

2.) downtilt i have no idea what to do with because of ledge invincibility and all.

you guys have any uses for these moves?

It's a safe poking move at most ranges, especially cause it's got IASA frames almost as soon as the attack is over, making it a great damage builder. You can also use it to force a reaction then punish the reaction (for example, you dtilt at max range, your opponent spotdodges, you walk a bit then do dancing blade), it's a great way to set up brickwalls.

Also, depending on how you space it, you can use it to mess with ledge recovery. They just have to be approaching from aprox. ledge level, it's definitely more useful for some opponents then others.

But the biggest thing is safety.



Dtilt is my favorite move that Marth has, yeah I know overb is better, but I love my brick walls.

3.) over b - i have seen some marth players try and use the variations of the ->B to try to combo into other moves (like ending the last hit of the ->B with ^ and try to hit them while they are up in the air) if you know of any other things i would appreciate it a lot =)

In my expirience, the down variation tends to be good for that, but all all, only at low percents (also, down can be DI'ed out of, so this is generally off of shield-stabbing since the down variation is great for shield-stabbings, but dangerous otherwise). Really, up is best for setting up for additional damage in my opinion.

 

[∫unk]

So you hate when people rag on the threads you make, but then you do it to other people?

hypocrisy ftw

this.

and d-tilt is my favorite move with Marth.... soooo good. IASA frames, pokes, dodges some attacks because you're crouched. you use it to set up into other moves for *i think* a true combo, like dancing blade or another d-tilt.

dancing blade is used as a damage builder and freshen your other moves, as it counts as 4 moves if you do the entire dancing blade. however, as the metagame has evolved, dancing blade is not as spammable or useful as it once was. i'm finding myself getting power shielded first hit or rolled behind to get punished, even if i stop it halfway through.

u-tilt i just use when they're on a platform above me, or as a true combo from a short hop u-air.

 

[ChaosKnight]

yea drephen up tilt should be used at high percentage also its also good to set up for a juggle trap ... also its a bit faster than up smash if they shield up smash is leaves you very vulnarable to attack up tilt is a bit safer.

d tilt is awesome you can use it even if they are using ledge invincibility cause lets face it not everyones perfect and you'll eventually hit with it.. it can also be used to a quick fsmash which makes it for a quick 2 hit.

dancing blade is the best move in marths arsenal xD you can dancing blade right out of your shield and stuff.. . it should always be used and no the down b is not always bad you can actually use it but at lower percentage its most effective.. but the best way to finish is either --> B or ^b .... only use down b situational

 

[Nintendevil]

Uptilt exeeds the Upsmash in range and is better for some combos.

 

[DarkRunner00]

So you hate when people rag on the threads you make, but then you do it to other people?

hypocrisy ftw

=)

Um, for dtilt...

Usually after an aerial, I used to Fsmash (which was bad) but when I could read a good connect... so I wasn't spamming Fsmash, but recently... since I've applied do "c-stick fastfall" i hold down and immediately dtilt rather than an Fsmash...

usually... After I do fairs... i Fair DI slightly back FF and poke.

I brougth up the former asking whether dtilt in replace of Fsmash is viable.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

were you serious when you made this thread? All three moves that you said are moves that should be used by a Marth players, especially dancing blade!

Ya, good point Rave, I mean I use all these moves a lot, they are great. And you can kill with DB and Utilt, so why wouldn't you use them?

 

[3GOD]

I find that Utilt is strange; it doesn't seem to have good knockback/stun whether you tipper it or not. In Melee it was an awesome defensive move, but now it seems too slow and weak to use very effectively. It still has great coverage, but I really miss the hit stun, and it seems a little slower.

 

[VietGeek]

I find that Utilt is strange; it doesn't seem to have good knockback/stun whether you tipper it or not. In Melee it was an awesome defensive move, but now it seems too slow and weak to use very effectively. It still has great coverage, but I really miss the hit stun, and it seems a little slower.

Wait until the percentages go up to at least 70%. It has pretty good knockback and stun for a move in Brawl.

 

[Desire]

Wait until the percentages go up to at least 70%. It has pretty good knockback and stun for a move in Brawl.

exactly what i was going to say, slight less lag, and what? utilt=weak? no way

 

[Nibbity]

Up tilt is great, especially if they are on a platform above you (though it also hits infront and behind you slightly). It has surprisingly great knock back when tipped.

Down tilt.. is amazing. It's a great poke move. It's fast. It's safe on block when spaced properly. It's a trap in itself, it's great for spacing, zoning, it's too good. Also dtilt leads to a free dancing blade.

Dancing blade doesn't really lead into any true combos, but the up version will definitely set up to a juggle trap. Just a random note, don't use the down version. It's bad.

Wait wait, for dancing blade, are you saying you don't like any of the down hits? I can see how that's valid, but I would have to say the last hit which is down is really useful, catches your opponents offguard, and hurts shields.

sorry if I didn't catch what you meant haha.

 

[Steel]

Wait wait, for dancing blade, are you saying you don't like any of the down hits? I can see how that's valid, but I would have to say the last hit which is down is really useful, catches your opponents offguard, and hurts shields.

sorry if I didn't catch what you meant haha.

It's good if you expect them to dash at you. What I'll do sometimes is start the dancing blade a good amount of distance away from the opponent, delay each hit, and since my opponent is used to me using the forward combo he will rush in to punish but end up getting stabbed by one of the multi-hits. (don't use this too often, people can catch on)

I'll use it on shields if their shield is already low.

But for pure damage, no. Like I said before it's easily DI'd out of. Go with the forward or up version for the most part.

 

[Nibbity]

It's good if you expect them to dash at you. What I'll do sometimes is start the dancing blade a good amount of distance away from the opponent, delay each hit, and since my opponent is used to me using the forward combo he will rush in to punish but end up getting stabbed by one of the multi-hits. (don't use this too often, people can catch on)

I'll use it on shields if their shield is already low.

But for pure damage, no. Like I said before it's easily DI'd out of. Go with the forward or up version for the most part.

Ahhh, I see. Good point, DI'ing out of that thing is easier than I thought, I try to use it fast and as close to my enemies as possible so they'll have a hard time. I feel as though I don't have many options, so I use the down ones.

For up, I like using it when my opponent has a little amount of damage so I can juggle them, and the normal straight one when im near the edge to try to get some fairs or a spike off the edge.

 

[Kel]

U tilt kills better than U smash. I had a computer ROB in training mode stand on a battlefield platform and utilted and usmashed it. The utilt killed slightly earlier than U smash at the platform's height.

Mostly, Over B is used to combo OUT of things or to punish rolls/ spotdodges. Over b comes out so fast (4 frames) that you can do what you want, when you want, with it. It's great for punishing, damage, and recharging other kill moves.

You can use Over B to punish people when they roll behind you after you Dtilt. If they roll behind you, you can run after them and Over B as well. Over B is amazing.

 

[Emblem Lord]

U-tilt has several different hitzones. This was true even in melee. I will test it later though.

U-smash has it's uses in juggles though due to damage and the crazy hitbox.

 

[Nibbity]

for juggling with U - smash, wouldn't you need to hit at the base of the blade, or are we only talking low percents?

(Also, yay! 100 posts! Only 4,900 more to go! I'm so close!)

 

[wazgood]

i stopped using utilt during the transition from melee to brawl, but i am considering using it again

 

[e__]

Side B's first hit comes out in 4 frames. The whole thing can deal 10-20% with right spacing and helps stop move decay, even it's own.

That's reason enough, IMO

 

[Mazaloth]

i was wondering on your guy's opinion was on a few topics

1.)uptilt - i dont see much use for up-tilt because it seems like up smash is better in range and knockback and the only reason i would use uptilt is too save the upsmash so it can actually kill

2.) downtilt i have no idea what to do with because of ledge invincibility and all.

you guys have any uses for these moves?

3.) over b - i have seen some marth players try and use the variations of the ->B to try to combo into other moves (like ending the last hit of the ->B with ^ and try to hit them while they are up in the air) if you know of any other things i would appreciate it a lot =)

First off, Marth's up tilt is one of his best moves, it is fast, decent range, and can really come in handy, the only reason the up smash is used more is that you can dash cancel it.
Up tilt is good for when characters are on above platforms, too juggle, or you need a quick attack.

Down tilt, it isn't really for edgeplay anymore because of the lack of hitstun, but it is a good wall that can be used to keep a defensive position while still being offensive, it also has Iasa frames, so it can used to 'combo' into various tilts or specials.

Dancing blades is the best move ever, period.
it gives decent knockback, and you can choose a variation of 3 standard paths( pending on the direction you hold the anolog stick) you can execute.
All that have different times to use them.

The up DB is to set use for some juggles.
Down DB is to eat away shields.
Forward is to knock away enemies for spacing.

Of course you can mix everything up but that's a different story.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Side B's first hit comes out in 4 frames. The whole thing can deal 10-20% with right spacing and helps stop move decay, even it's own.

That's reason enough, IMO

Ya, it's one of the best moves in the game, so why not use it?

 

[Korea4ever]

well, here's how I use those moves.
1) While utilt has a shorter vertical range, it's a sweep instead of a thrust, so the hitbox extends to the sides, so it's a little harder to DI away from. usmash, on the other hand, i use to kill with. And it seems you can spike with it as well o_O
2) I use dtilt to edgeguard against characters like falco, where his up and over B's hitboxes don't extend very far from the character. Just time the pokes right, and they'll have a hard time recovering.
3) Dancing blade comes out very fast, and deals damage quickly. Personally, I always end with the down variation (4 quick stabs) because it deals a few more % in damage, and gives me enough time to recover.

 

[Pierce7d]

Down Variation can be DIed out of, and should be thrown mostly when you mess up the spacing, or against certain characters like D3.

Utilt has mad hidden utilities (try hitting someone with the back of your Utilt while they are right behind you, and see what it does). It's a good flexible move.

Dancing Blade is sex. Down tilt is also sex, as it's safe, sets up a trap, and edgeguards like a beast.

Edit: W00t post 400