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Unpopular Smash Ultimate Opinions! - Read the OP before Posting

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Guynamednelson

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-I’m risking a flame debate for this but I think this whole “Smash Bubble” thing feels like a way for people to hate on popular characters who get talked about too much especially since the term doesn’t even exist anywhere except here.

I agree that hardcore fans aren’t the only ones that matter to Nintendo but people seem jump on others for wanting Banjo/Geno/Isaac instead of a recent/casual pick but they never seem to actually explain and state what kind of characters the general public are truly requesting.
I think the term has resulted in an anti-Smash Bubble bubble, where people act like the public will refuse to accept any character that isn't Steve/Sans/Jonesy, ignoring how Roy's fanbase is entirely from Smash.
 

DelugeFGC

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I'd say WiiFit Trainer fits the bill more for 'left field' character in Sm4sh when compared to Duck Hunt.
 

Xelrog

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Where do these character polls happen, anyway? I've been around for the pre-releases of every Smash game since Brawl and never seen them advertised or anything.
 
D

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-You know, :ultisabelle:‘s inclusion in the series can really easy to hate because you could find her boring or harmless but when you get down to it, I don’t think having her in is any different then someone like say :ultpeach:.

-I’m risking a flame debate for this but I think this whole “Smash Bubble” thing feels like a way for people to hate on popular characters who get talked about too much especially since the term doesn’t even exist anywhere except here.

I agree that hardcore fans aren’t the only ones that matter to Nintendo but people seem jump on others for wanting Banjo/Geno/Isaac instead of a recent/casual pick but they never seem to actually explain and state what kind of characters the general public are truly requesting.

I’d hardly consider picks like Sora, Bandana Dee, and Rayman in the Bubble because those kinds of characters are widely known and popular outside of this community.

I know we’re just an extremely vocal minority as far as the internet goes but I’m curious to know what exactly kind of requests those 2 million people are making so we can get a better view outside of this alleged “Smash Bubble”

-I wish Sakurai just stuck to Retro again like :ultgnw::ultrob::ultduckhunt: when making left field characters.
My problem of the bubble is not the characters themselves but the fanbase around them.

Post K. Rool reveal, in a good number of places, a lot of the fans started acting like Isaac, Banjo, Geno were practically confirmed since they scored high on the fanpolls that were made during the period. No matter if the way of choosing the polls was faulty (i.e. multiple from the same site, different type, posting an analysis), and most likely dont reflect the ballot results. This created a narrative that pretty much character appearing on the polls was hype, and any outside wasnt.

A lot of people got angry with Isabelle being the only September reveal (even called her a promo pick), and a lot of people got angry due to Incineroar (another character seen as a promo pick) destroying the grinch hoax and Isaac being AT. Like I mentioned before, people have trouble accepting that Bayo was a popular request.

The problem is that even now, discussion of the dlc seems to be stuck in an attitude of us vs them when talking about other choices from the same companies. Any rep not coming from the bubble or is automatically seen as disappointing or a shill pick. In my case as a DQ fan, it is annoying to find many times that people look down to the franchise if only due to not being Geno.

Dunno about the public perception a lot, but I can imagine from Sakurai's comments, and the merchindise they carry, characters like Bayo, the veterans or from franchises like CV, AC, FF and Pokemon, are at least in the awareness of the regular public.
 

Arthur97

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Isabelle's trailer didn't do her many favors to be fair. It may be the most boring reveal trailer to date. Especially coming off the heels of K.Rool, Ridley, and the Belmonts. She is probably one of the fighters I forget is even in the game the most.
 

WolfCypher

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-I wish Sakurai just stuck to Retro again like :ultgnw::ultrob::ultduckhunt: when making left field characters.
I can use this to segway into an unpopular opinion, topic adjacent to what you just said.

I really wish they just went with Decidueye as the new Pokémon rep instead of Incineroar, and they could have just given us either Wrestler from Rhythm Heaven, or any of the characters from that NES Wrestling game, especially since with the latter you would have had the slow grappler character Sakurai wanted (most of what Incineroar does in SSBU is more wrestler than Pokémon anyway, you really can copy-paste a lot of its moves in any given wrestling character) AND covered the obscure retro rep at the same time.
 

Ze Diglett

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I can use this to segway into an unpopular opinion, topic adjacent to what you just said.

I really wish they just went with Decidueye as the new Pokémon rep instead of Incineroar, and they could have just given us either Wrestler from Rhythm Heaven, or any of the characters from that NES Wrestling game, especially since with the latter you would have had the slow grappler character Sakurai wanted (most of what Incineroar does in SSBU is more wrestler than Pokémon anyway, you really can copy-paste a lot of its moves in any given wrestling character) AND covered the obscure retro rep at the same time.
Oh my god, yes to this. All of my yes.
 

DelugeFGC

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I quite like Incineroar. The primary reason he isn't on my secondary list is.. well, his balance issues, but overall I do like his design and I think he fits well in Smash. I also feel he's easily the most obvious pick for a wrestling character in Smash as any other choice would be extremely niche / unheard of. If he ever got buffed (in a meaningful manner) I'd be on the cat suplex train right away.
 
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Door Key Pig

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There was that theory Delzethin made (?) that the Smash 4 RH character was actually suppose to be The Wrestler, with Incineroar having stuff that could have been carried over from him like a timed button press move and posing. Honestly considering this was the game that gave us Wii Fit Trainer and the Duck Hunt Dog among others, such an out there pick (that might have gained internet meme notoriety with the Ringside minigame by the time the project plan was being made??) wouldn't have been too out of place.
 

DelugeFGC

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Eh, I wouldn't put too much stock in a fringe theory when Incineroar is a far more obvious pick for the slot. Of all the wrestling characters that could potentially end up in a game like Smash through sensible means, he just BY FAR makes the most sense. He's a rep from a well established Nintendo series, he's potentially promotional for Nintendo, he fits the wrestler archetype perfectly and people tend to eat Pokemon reps right up in Smash games.

So I doubt there's anything more to it than that.
 

Xelrog

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People have been clamoring for a Rhythm Heaven rep for some time. That said, I don't know that the wrestler is the one character to rep the whole series. I also don't think Chorus Kids would fit that bill, or be particularly adaptable into a fighting character. If RH ever got a character I would honestly expect Rhythm Girl.
 

The DanMan051

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Not to mention, it would severly limit the creativity of the roster and shut down any popular character who doesn't do well among voters.
That's something people so often forget. To pull a Mark Twain quote that both my marketing and statistics professors have brought up: "There's lies, damned lies, and then there's statistics."

Polls never tell the whole story-- a company who listens to fan polls has to take that in mind. Sample size, who may be voting, the timing of the poll, etc., all play a part in it.

The Smash Ballot quite clearly had more support from the "core" community, by virtue of K. Rool being the unofficialbutbasicallyofficial winner. Heck, that last bit even demonstrates my prior point-- even with the Ballot results, Nintendo didn't trust it/didn't give a damn about it during Smash 4 and instead inserted a left-field 3rd party marketing character that they knew would generate more hype and attention.

I personally think that, short of merchandising, companies like Nintendo should listen less to fan polls and make their own creative and marketing decisions. Bam, unpopular opinion, I hope there's never a second Smash Ballot
 

Guynamednelson

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There was that theory Delzethin made (?) that the Smash 4 RH character was actually suppose to be The Wrestler, with Incineroar having stuff that could have been carried over from him like a timed button press move and posing.
That was me, in a thread Delzethin made.
 

Nathan Richardson

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Just going to throw this out here. While I love pokemon trainer and liked how he was implemented into smash ultimate I don't like how charizard was switched up. They should've taken out flare blitz and kept rock smash.
 

DelugeFGC

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That's far from where the problems start and miles from where they end as well when it comes to Charizard. He's fundamentally busted from the ground up, a totally worthless character at the moment. Giving him Rock Smash wouldn't do a whole lot to change that, most of all the meta of Ultimate just wasn't kind to him.. but his balance is pretty **** as well.
 

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Just going to throw this out here. While I love pokemon trainer and liked how he was implemented into smash ultimate I don't like how charizard was switched up. They should've taken out flare blitz and kept rock smash.
Bringing back Rock Smash is not helping matters if Charizard's entire moveset has been made worse than it was in Smash 3DS / Wii U.
 

SirAileron

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I miss pre-BotW Link. I don't like not having a hookshot/clawshot, and I don't like how the remote bombs handle. Smash 4 Link is my favorite by far.
 

Mogisthelioma

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“Smash Bubble”
Maybe I'm just an idiot, but I've never heard that term used before. Could you enlighten me? You seem to be on to a really good point and I want to be a part of this.

Also, super unpopular, but I feel like Incineroar is ten times cooler than Decidueye could have ever been and was an even better surprise.
 
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Idon

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Maybe I'm just an idiot, but I've never heard that term used before. Could you enlighten me? You seem to be on to a really good point and I want to be a part of this.
"Bubbles" in this sense refer to insular communities, with little to no interactions with more general populations. Like for example, in the Kirby "bubble" Marx is one of the most iconic Kirby villains there is, instantly recognizable, but to say, a more general populace, he might have trouble getting recognized. The Smash Bubble too refers to one surrounding popular Smash characters like Isaac and Ashley who aren't as popular generally.
 

i am idiot

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1. sora is my least wanted 3rd party character and i don't understand how/why people think he's a realistic choice. remember how stingy square was when sakurai was putting cloud in smash 4, i can only BEGIN to IMAGINE how stingy they would be with sora, ESPECIALLY with a company like DISNEY involved.

2. i absolutely HATE it when someone says "a rhythm heaven character wouldn't be a good choice because they don't have anything to work with" and then say **** like " spring man definitely has stuff they can work with" (i'm not against spring man in smash, but still) besides not having a lot to work with didn't stop characters like rosalina from getting in.

3. i do not care about "relevancy" at all.

4. i DESPISE lucina, she is such an annoying try hard it pisses me off (as well as her mains).

5. people are WAY to lenient towards clones.

6. hyrule temple is meh.

7. brawl is the best game in the series.

8. melee is a **** game that spawned a **** community every other smash (including smash 64) is 10x better than super trash bros melee.

9. smash 3ds > smash wii u.

10. flat zone x is amongst my top 3 favorite stages of all time.

10. i think funky kong, ms pac man and ninten would work best as alts.

11. i think cuts are a good thing because it prevents the roster from getting needlessly overblown with characters that feel more like padding instead of legit characters, since padding is the best way to describe a majority of melees' newcomers.

12. i don't care if a franchise "needs more reps" if that is the sole reason for wanting a character, i wont be in support of them. which btw, the word "rep" has lost all meaning to me.
 
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Arymle Roseanne

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11. i think cuts are a good thing because it prevents the roster from getting needlessly overblown with characters that are there for no reason
I don't see the logic behind that someone being in "for no reason" when every character has their fans regardless on how often they are used, that being said I'm very satisfied with the roster already and unlike many others who want more characters I personally don't think they need to go overboard with dlc. I honestly would be fine if they stopped after the five we know we're getting.
 
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Lionel_B

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- There is too much Fire Emblem AWAKENING characters.
- It was a bad idea to put Incineroar.
- I don't want to see Geno in the roster.
- Ridley was better in boss.
- Brawl is the best game in the series, this is the last time the series made me happy.
- I would have preferred Boo instead of Piranha Plant
- It was a bad idea to put Charizard alone in Sm4sh.
-Twilight Princess's Zelda design is a better choice for Smahs bros than Link To The Past
 
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TheDuke54

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Got to agree on too much Fire Emblem representation. I have a feeling the dlc content bundle some of us paid for will have some FE representation. I just hope if that is the case they branch out with an axe, lance, or bow user.

Or hell give us a paladin. It'd be a hoot to hear the horse scream as it's launched off screen.
 

DelugeFGC

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Ever since Melee FE has been huge, I mean hell Smash and FE are bonded on levels that other franchises just can't get close to. I will say it is a bit over-saturated and I wouldn't miss it at all if some picks such as Chrom or Corrin flaked off into the ether.. but at the same time I can't pretend there being more FE than anything else also doesn't make sense in Smash considering the whole Roy/Marth debacle back in Melee and how FE has blown WAY up since then.
 

Xelrog

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at the same time I can't pretend there being more FE than anything else also doesn't make sense in Smash considering the whole Roy/Marth debacle back in Melee and how FE has blown WAY up since then.
"Blown way up" as in "reached a point of popularity that's maybe half of the other major Nintendo franchises represented in the game which have far less characters than FE does, if we're being generous." It's got more characters in the game than the Legend of Zelda, one of the most significant and influential video game franchises in the history of the medium. You're not seriously going to look me in the eye and tell me that FE is as significant and recognized a franchise as Pokemon? The 80-year-old down the street who's never played Pong knows what Pokemon is.
 

DelugeFGC

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In relation specifically to Smash Bros.. yeah, I am gonna do that. Nintendo in general? Hell no.
 
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osby

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Sales number of a franchise and its number of fighters in Smash don't necessarily have to coincide.
 

DelugeFGC

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By no means, I'm just saying due to the relationship FE and Smash specifically share, there being many FE reps does make some degree of sense.
 
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Xelrog

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I see Smash as a sort of video gaming hall of fame roster. In that regard, I definitely think FE is very significantly over-represented, and any theoretical brownie points with the Smash franchise shouldn't affect that.
 

Guynamednelson

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Sales number of a franchise and its number of fighters in Smash don't necessarily have to coincide.
It also ignores how many times FE Heroes has been downloaded, and how much profit it's made.
 

TheDuke54

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Fire Emblem is not as big here, but I heard that it's one of Japan/Nintendo's favorite series. I mean, I never heard of it until I had to fight Marth and Roy as 'challegner's approaching' and thinking who are these guys? They look familiar...I was wrong of course.

But they've been dishing out FE games ever since the NES days. So I'm sure that's the reason they've been including them so much.
 
D

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I can use this to segway into an unpopular opinion, topic adjacent to what you just said.

I really wish they just went with Decidueye as the new Pokémon rep instead of Incineroar, and they could have just given us either Wrestler from Rhythm Heaven, or any of the characters from that NES Wrestling game, especially since with the latter you would have had the slow grappler character Sakurai wanted (most of what Incineroar does in SSBU is more wrestler than Pokémon anyway, you really can copy-paste a lot of its moves in any given wrestling character) AND covered the obscure retro rep at the same time.
Neither would play like Incineroar.
The former would be more rhythm based and include Reporter interviewing him ala Ringside and the latter would be more stylized after the NES game.

There was that theory Delzethin made (?) that the Smash 4 RH character was actually suppose to be The Wrestler, with Incineroar having stuff that could have been carried over from him like a timed button press move and posing. Honestly considering this was the game that gave us Wii Fit Trainer and the Duck Hunt Dog among others, such an out there pick (that might have gained internet meme notoriety with the Ringside minigame by the time the project plan was being made??) wouldn't have been too out of place.
Considering Delz has done nothing but go out of his way to **** on Incineroar since long before the reveal and makes up all sort of bs up in regards to him just to make his most wanted look good instead, I wouldn't take any "theory" he crafts up seriously.
He's literally just looking for any excuse as to how Incineroar was just a lazy addition on Sakurai's part.
 
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TyrantLizardKing

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People should learn to have more open minds in regards to characters. I NEVER would have picked Cloud, Ken, or Incineroar to be in Smash, and I despised each of them upon announcement...and now I love playing as all of them. It's why I decided to invest in the Fighters Pass; even if I don't like or care for x character and their series, there's still a good chance they could end up being really fun to play regardless. You ask me people hyperfocus on who a character is too much and not on how they play, which leads to more negativity than I feel is necessary.
 
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DelugeFGC

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I see Smash as a sort of video gaming hall of fame roster. In that regard, I definitely think FE is very significantly over-represented, and any theoretical brownie points with the Smash franchise shouldn't affect that.
How? Smash has never really EVER been this 'hall of fame' as you say. From the very beginning, picks such as Captain Falcon, Ness and Jigglypuff (anywhere except Japan, anyway) made people scratch their heads. Almost nobody had heard of the Cap'n, he wasn't even playable in FZ at the time and was a manual mascot. Earthbound had some cult status, but in the grand scheme was still totally unknown. Melee brought forth more of this with characters such as Marth, Roy (at the time, they were about as niche as you could be for a Western Audience) and Game & Watch.

I don't dispute Smash as a series has been a place where legends of video game history clash.. but it's not really the qualifying factor, either. Some characters absolutely fit this 'HoF' description.. however, many others do not. Considering it has been this way since the very beginning (64), I feel it's a bit unfair to view Smash this way.

If anything, Smash MAKES characters into Hall of Fame material.
 
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Door Key Pig

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I'm just waiting on Delz to finally upload his DLC speculation part 2 video lol
People have been clamoring for a Rhythm Heaven rep for some time. That said, I don't know that the wrestler is the one character to rep the whole series. I also don't think Chorus Kids would fit that bill, or be particularly adaptable into a fighting character. If RH ever got a character I would honestly expect Rhythm Girl.
Something about the Chorus Kids is that their trio nature could represent the smallest number of beats for rhythm in the RH minigames; their trio appearance and attacks could represent a "rhythm" fighter the best, especially since they're singing characters. Either that or some general character to represent all the minigames ala G&W or Duck Hunt. Maybe Tap Trial girl, but even as the cover girl her appearance isn't consistent?

In terms of straight-up branding, CK (and Marshall of Rhythm Heaven Fever?) get a bunch of appearances here and there while having a much more recognisable/consistent design, especially if you account for Marshall. They even happened to be the ones in Smash Ultimate with the Smash Tag image among other spirits instead of someone like Karate Joe or the Wrestler.
 

DelugeFGC

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I suppose I'd have to agree with Tyrant, now that I think about it. We ALL have picks that we want for biased reasons or nostalgia.. etc.. but at the end of the day all that really matters is that the character plays well, makes sense in their design and isn't totally busted. That's more what Smash is about, to me personally. I see Smash first-and-foremost as a fighting game, not a mascot / party game like some other people do.. and thus I care far more about new picks fitting into the scope of 'fighting game character' more than I do them 'making sense for Smash' so to speak.
 
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Xelrog

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How? Smash has never really EVER been this 'hall of fame' as you say.
I disagree. People buy the game to see Mario fight Sonic, and that's what it boils down to. That's where its popularity always has stemmed from, and continues to stem from. That will always be the coolest thing about this game and it will always be what sells units.

It's aaall about the rep.
 

DelugeFGC

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I disagree. People buy the game to see Mario fight Sonic, and that's what it boils down to. That's where its popularity always has stemmed from, and continues to stem from. That will always be the coolest thing about this game and it will always be what sells units.

It's aaall about the rep.
Doesn't matter what most people buy it for, I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the way Sakurai / Hal / Nintendo / BN / Etc. has went about shaping the roster of the Smash games. At the end of the day, that's the biggest factor. Rather or not I agree with any of the decisions made, it is their game and these have been the decisions they've consistently made in said game since day one.

Through that scope, there's not really room for disagreement. It's objectively true that the design of Smash's roster has never really been what you describe in-and-out. From Smash 64 back in the late 90's, to 2018-2019 today.. Smash has never had its roster totally centered around this 'hall of fame' mentality. There have been plenty of inclusions that fit the bill for that, yes.. but there have also been plenty that don't.. and that's not new to Smash, it's ALWAYS been this way.

Which is my point. From the days of 64 where we had inclusions such as a literal instruction manual mascot and a cult RPG protag, to now where the roster is packed full of this stuff.. this is just the way Smash has always been.
 
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The DanMan051

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I disagree. People buy the game to see Mario fight Sonic, and that's what it boils down to. That's where its popularity always has stemmed from, and continues to stem from. That will always be the coolest thing about this game and it will always be what sells units.

It's aaall about the rep.
And those characters are in.

Basically all the obvious picks are included in the game and have been there sine Melee, while still being accompanied by "less obvious" choices.

The silent majority already has what it wants and is easily satisfied.
 

DelugeFGC

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I just can't see hordes of more casual Smash fans getting excited before launch, only to have their dreams dashed and their mind changed about buying the game when they found out Geno didn't make it in.

We can all wish for that stuff, advocate for it and try to make it a reality.. HELL yes. That's part of what Smash is about now, but the, absolute fervor.. that a lot of people go into when discussing this sort of thing.. the outlandish stuff they say.. well just, good lord man.
 
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