Unpopular Smash Ultimate Opinions! - Read the OP before Posting

[Idon]

What happened to people playing for fun?

People playing to win.

(Also people playing for money)

 

[DelugeFGC]

I never said people can't play for fun, but acting like tiers are pointless is lunacy. Mac is simply one of the worst characters within the meta of Ultimate, objectively. If you play just for fun, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, but when it comes down to perspectives of how good a character is within the environment of the game they're in and how they do in high level play, such things do tend to have rankings as not all characters in these games are made equal. That's all I'll say on that.

 

[TheDuke54]

I like messing with Mac regardless. I mean you can still ignore the tier list. I do 1vs1, but I prefer team and free for alls way more. I know I had a ton of people complain to me whenever I played as Doctor Mario on Smash4. Usually it was the ones who I ended up beating on 1v1.

Yeah with a good player using Mario I'd probably lose, but I don't care. Regardless of 1v1 or whatever mode, having fun is what I want to do foremost.

 

[DelugeFGC]

I don't understand where it was said playing for fun was somehow wrong, just that Mac was one of the least viable characters in the game.

Ah well.

 

[TheDuke54]

It was never said. I just wanted to add my two cents. Because lord knows that there are people who do think it's silly or wrong and I used my Doctor Mario usage as the example. I used to get goaded for using him all the time when I played Smash4 online.

 

[Deleted member]

I never said people can't play for fun, but acting like tiers are pointless is lunacy. Mac is simply one of the worst characters within the meta of Ultimate, objectively. If you play just for fun, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, but when it comes down to perspectives of how good a character is within the environment of the game they're in and how they do in high level play, such things do tend to have rankings as not all characters in these games are made equal. That's all I'll say on that.

Honestly I think that only matters for 1v1 anyway. Soooo....ok. Have fun with that (or not, I guess, it's just about winning, right?).

When you play in team battles for example, your partner can cover any weaknesses your character may have, so suddenly everyone is viable if you have good teamwork. I prefer the dynamics of coordination and being a team player to win with any character over picking the "best" characters or getting screwed because of matchups. I mean the game was literally designed around being a fighter with more than 2 players but I guess that's an unpopular opinion here on Smash Boards, ain't it?

 

[DelugeFGC]

I don't see a point in getting emotionally riled over a discussion over a video game, so I'm gonna dip from this specific conversation and join in later when the subject shifts or I think of something else to add. Not really into arguing with people for the sake of it.

It was never said. I just wanted to add my two cents. Because lord knows that there are people who do think it's silly or wrong and I used my Doctor Mario usage as the example. I used to get goaded for using him all the time when I played Smash4 online.

That's totally ridiculous, Doc deserves respect.. man earned a PhD.

 

[Wunderwaft]

While the ballot did give us a lot of great characters. I thinks it's responsible for making this community rabid and cannibalistic. People are now less open to characters that they didn't campaign and vote for. You start seeing a lot of us vs them mentality in certain character fandoms, it's as if they feel hatred towards a different character because they believe it's stealing a slot from them or something.

Again, I think the ballot gave us great characters that we couldn't possibly get otherwise. I doubt K. Rool would ever make it in if it wasn't for the ballot. But speculation has turned sour because of this, people have shut down supporters of other characters because they assumed these other characters didn't do well enough in the ballot and are thus not important to the discussion. Which is kind of funny to think about since the Belmonts are in the game because of the ballot, and they weren't at the top of any fan poll that was made during the time.

This is why I don't consider fan polls as a reliable way to gauge a character's true popularity. You're taking votes from a specific group of people that don't represent the entire Smash community. The number of votes that the original ballot got was almost 2 million, there is not a single fan poll that comes even close to that number.

 

[Lenidem]

While the ballot did give us a lot of great characters. I thinks it's responsible for making this community rabid and cannibalistic. People are now less open to characters that they didn't campaign and vote for. You start seeing a lot of us vs them mentality in certain character fandoms, it's as if they feel hatred towards a different character because they believe it's stealing a slot from them or something.

Again, I think the ballot gave us great characters that we couldn't possibly get otherwise. I doubt K. Rool would ever make it in if it wasn't for the ballot. But speculation has turned sour because of this, people have shut down supporters of other characters because they assumed these other characters didn't do well enough in the ballot and are thus not important to the discussion. Which is kind of funny to think about since the Belmonts are in the game because of the ballot, and they weren't at the top of any fan poll that was made during the time.

This is why I don't consider fan polls as a reliable way to gauge a character's true popularity. You're taking votes from a specific group of people that don't represent the entire Smash community. The number of votes that the original ballot got was almost 2 million, there is not a single fan poll that comes even close to that number.

You're not wrong. But on the other hand, should we really trust Nintendo when the ballot's results are kept unknown until they reveal a newcomer and say 'yes, he/she totally won the ballot, or was one of the winners, whatever'? I mean, I agree that Nintendo must have a very good idea of what the players in general (not only the 'Smash bubble') want, an idea more accurate than any fanpol. But they tell us what they want. The Belmont, for example, probably performed kinda well... but how well? Were they before, say, Rayman, Crash Bandicoot, Geno, Isaac, Banjo & Kazooie? Far beyond? Somewhere in between? We will never know - and that really upsets me.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

You're not wrong. But on the other hand, should we really trust Nintendo when the ballot's results are kept unknown until they reveal a newcomer and say 'yes, he/she totally won the ballot, or was one of the winners, whatever'? I mean, I agree that Nintendo must have a very good idea of what the players in general (not only the 'Smash bubble') want, an idea more accurate than any fanpol. But they tell us what they want. The Belmont, for example, probably performed kinda well... but how well? Were they before, say, Rayman, Crash Bandicoot, Geno, Isaac, Banjo & Kazooie? Far beyond? Somewhere in between? We will never know - and that really upsets me.

Because if they reveal the results, then we'll start expecting characters rather than being surprised by them.

 

[Lenidem]

Because if they reveal the results, then we'll start expecting characters rather than being surprised by them.

I don't want to be surprised by a character. I want to play with characters that I like (and I want people to play with characters that they like).

Unpopular opinion?

 

[Cap'n Jack]

In my experience, tier lists are overrated. Game data shows us the game is fairly balanced and once you start getting into tier lists in a fairly balanced game, it is basically nitpicking. Yeah, maybe at the big tournaments, those minor advantages matter, but it is time for a reality pill, the vast majority of players both competitive and just for fun, aren’t at that level.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

I don't want to be surprised by a character. I want to play with characters that I like (and I want people to play with characters that they like).

"I don't want Nintendo to make the game owned by them. I want to play with my (our) favorite character and have Nintendo accommodate my (our) needs"

Unpopular opinion?

Yes, it isn't your game. It isn't the Geno supporters game. It's Nintendo's game, and they can do as they please because they own all of the IPs besides the ones they fairly negotiated to borrow.

 

[Wunderwaft]

You're not wrong. But on the other hand, should we really trust Nintendo when the ballot's results are kept unknown until they reveal a newcomer and say 'yes, he/she totally won the ballot, or was one of the winners, whatever'? I mean, I agree that Nintendo must have a very good idea of what the players in general (not only the 'Smash bubble') want, an idea more accurate than any fanpol. But they tell us what they want. The Belmont, for example, probably performed kinda well... but how well? Were they before, say, Rayman, Crash Bandicoot, Geno, Isaac, Banjo & Kazooie? Far beyond? Somewhere in between? We will never know - and that really upsets me.

The problem with revealing the results is that it's going to make things even worse. People would only rally behind the characters that were high on the ballot. People who wanted characters that were low on the ballot would get shut down even harder. It would turn into a contest of which character ranked higher, speculation would never be the same. I think the reason why Nintendo didn't disclose the results is because they wanted to have more control over who they put in.

 

[Idon]

"I don't want Nintendo to make the game owned by them. I want to play with my (our) favorite character and have Nintendo accommodate my (our) needs"



Yes, it isn't your game. It isn't the Geno supporters game. It's Nintendo's game, and they can do as they please because they own all of the IPs besides the ones they fairly negotiated to borrow.

First off, you completely misrepresented what he wanted in order to attack an easy strawman.

Second off, this is the unpopular opinion thread. Stating that it is and discrediting his opinion seems counterintuitive.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

First off, you completely misrepresented what he wanted in order to attack an easy strawman.

Okay, but hold up. I was posting my interpretation of his comment, but we can go through word by word if we want. I will say, there was some straw man there, but I was getting some heavy entitlement out of the first bit which is why I was frustrated.

"I don't want"
"I don't want"


"to be surprised by a character."
Meaning that Nintendo cannot hold any character as a surprise.
Meaning that Nintendo should hold the ballot public as well as the upcoming characters list public.
Meaning that there won't be any character reveals if they are already known.
Meaning that Nintendo can't make character reveals and add in the characters they want to.
"Nintendo to make the game owned by them."



"I want to play with characters that I like (and I want people to play with characters that they like)."
Meaning that we should get the characters we like in the game.
Meaning that the character will be our favorite.
"I want to play with my (our) favorite character"

Therefore...
"and have Nintendo accommodate my (our) needs"

 

[Oddball]

But on the other hand, should we really trust Nintendo when the ballot's results are kept unknown until they reveal a newcomer and say 'yes, he/she totally won the ballot, or was one of the winners, whatever'?

Why shouldn't we trust them?

What's the alternative? Just assume they're lying because it doesn't match our preconceived notions?

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Second off, this is the unpopular opinion thread. Stating that it is and discrediting his opinion seems counterintuitive.

It is an unpopular opinion. Therefore it compltely fits the thread

 

[Xelrog]

For every character that people dismiss as trash or low tier, I have been completely destroyed by someone playing that character who was amazing.

That doesn't sound like a high bar to clear.

 

[Lenidem]

Okay, but hold up. I was posting my interpretation of his comment, but we can go through word by word if we want. I will say, there was some straw man there, but I was getting some heavy entitlement out of the first bit which is why I was frustrated.

"I don't want"
"I don't want"


"to be surprised by a character."
Meaning that Nintendo cannot hold any character as a surprise.
Meaning that Nintendo should hold the ballot public as well as the upcoming characters list public.
Meaning that there won't be any character reveals if they are already known.
Meaning that Nintendo can't make character reveals and add in the characters they want to.
"Nintendo to make the game owned by them."



"I want to play with characters that I like (and I want people to play with characters that they like)."
Meaning that we should get the characters we like in the game.
Meaning that the character will be our favorite.
"I want to play with my (our) favorite character"

Therefore...
"and have Nintendo accommodate my (our) needs"

Oh wow... that's a one beautiful shortcut. I basically said that the characters themselves are more important to me than the surprise caused by their reveal. And you make it sound like... ah, whatever. 'Gna gna gna this is not YOUR game!!' Indeed. But if I'm paying for it and if I play it, then I would like to... like it. I have preferences, yes. Is that a crime, really?

Why shouldn't we trust them?

What's the alternative? Just assume they're lying because it doesn't match our preconceived notions?

Just assume that they tell us what they want. When they say that the Belmont 'performed well' at the ballot for example (I should check Sakurai's exact words), I can believe it, but it doesn't mean much (how well exactly?). And yes, in general, we should all be cautious about basically every public statement, especially when private interests are involved. Nintendo would never say 'Several characters performed better than the Belmont, but those were the only ones whose rights we could obtain so here they are.' I'm not saying it's the truth, I'm just saying that it could be true and that if it was, Nintendo's speech would be exactly the same: I'm not saying they are lying, or saying half truth, just that they very well could be. So in conclusion: in doubt, better be sceptical.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Okay, maybe I was being a bit too harsh before because I did cut corners.

But I will still hold firm to my belief.

What's the magic of a new character reveal trailer if we already know it was the next person in line on the ballot?

 

[MrGameguycolor]

is the only character I generally dislike in Smash due to how disappointed I was to see her be an exact clone of .
The other clones have been more Luigified, I'm okay with now after seeing Uprising.
& are "Eh whatever, I guess they would play similarly."

But Samustoo IMO really should of had her own flavor.
Which is a shame since she looks so cool and I was really looking forward to playing her.

Here's hoping they change her more in the later patches...

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Also see

View attachment 176465​

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Masahiro Sakurai has announced on Twitter yesterday that the DLC lineup for the five Fighter Pack DLC characters has been finalized. Interestingly, the entire line-up has been selected by Nintendo this time around, with Sakurai accepting the selection if it is realizable.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Sakurai sent out another Tweet shortly afterwards to politely ask fans to not repeatedly flood him and Nintendo with requests for characters.


Author’s Note: Given this new information, who do you all think are the five DLC fighters? Let us know, but try not to flood Sakurai with your ideas.

Said news from November.

 

[osby]

Okay, maybe I was being a bit too harsh before because I did cut corners.

But I will still hold firm to my belief.

What's the magic of a new character reveal trailer if we already know it was the next person in line on the ballot?

Not to mention, it would severly limit the creativity of the roster and shut down any popular character who doesn't do well among voters.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

All in all, I trust in Nintendo's/Sakurai's judgement when it pertains to adding new characters in the game. No doubtly each character added will have a firm fanbase, and most characters will more than likely be top third party bracket contenders.

When Sakurai finishes work on Ultimate, then I would be content to have the character bracket released. Until then, keep it hidden so that we will never know who's coming next.

 

[osby]

Also, regardless of what you think about the ballot, it had about 2 million votes. Ultimate sold more than 12 million units already.

I don't think every character has to have popularity to justify their inclusion; but even if they had to, ballot isn't the best way of measuring it anymore.

 

[Deleted member]

The main issue I see with revealing the ballot results are a two things:

-If the results are not what the fanbase expects, do the fanbase will accept them easily? I can see a situation where the fanbase becomes more rabid and accuses Sakurai and Nintendo of manipulating the results, after all, people still have trouble accepting Bayonetta as a popular option during 4 DLC.

-We don't actually know how the votes were counted, and they may differ from what we think. A lot of franchises don't have fixed protagonists like CV of FF, so the votes are more divided and we got mention of this being the case for Cloud. It is likely that some characters that get in would do so due to the franchise popularity and many people would get angry if their picks were passed in this situation.

 

[Lenidem]

Okay, maybe I was being a bit too harsh before because I did cut corners.

But I will still hold firm to my belief.

What's the magic of a new character reveal trailer if we already know it was the next person in line on the ballot?

Well, revealing the ballot's results would not mean that the programmers would promise to include them all, because other factors matter too, like, do the developers see a real moveset potential. Of course, we would expect the most well placed to be included, but their would be no guarantee. Say, if they had revealed that Ridley was number one, we would still have discussed his inclusion: has Sakurai changed his mind about the size and the flight problem, or does he still see Ridley better as a boss/stage hazard? Suspens until the trailer is revealed.

Not to mention, it would severly limit the creativity of the roster and shut down any popular character who doesn't do well among voters.

But if a character is popular, people would vote for him, wouldn't they? Besides, Nintendo (and third-party) characters are so rich and different that the creativity and the variety would be there anyway.

 

[osby]

But if a character is popular, people would vote for him, wouldn't they? Besides, Nintendo (and third-party) characters are so rich and different that the creativity and the variety would be there anyway.

Not necessarily. Bulk of the people who voted in the ballot were more likely leaned towards the less casual side. That wouldn't fare well for characters like say, Isabelle, who are very popular among casual Nintendo fans but not within Smash fans.

Also, I disagree with you about variety. Unconventional characters like never could've score highly on fan pools. Not to mention, most fan-favorites appeal to certain demographics more.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Snake is the most infuriating character to play against.

 

[Penroze]

Snake is the most infuriating character to play against.

I would disagree, but just before I fought a Snake who just absolutely littered the stage with grenades, and now I'm not so sure.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I would disagree, but just before I fought a Snake who just absolutely littered the stage with grenades, and now I'm not so sure.

That's literally every Snake I fight.

 

[Idon]

Snake is the most infuriating character to play against.

Looking at Snake, it's easy to forget he has a button other than B.

 

[Penroze]

That's literally every Snake I fight.

It'd be fine if I was playing Mr. Game & Watch, but as Villager it was a nightmare. You can only keep one projectile at once and Snake's just pulling out five every second.

 

[DelugeFGC]

Snake's grenades can be his own problem as much as your own, especially if the player isn't paying attention to when / where he throws them. Snake is pretty good, but when you can get in his face and stay in his face, never giving him a second and never fearing his zoning ability.. he kind of has a really hard time.

All of his normals have pretty piss range / hitboxes compared to his B moves, so he gets outspaced (and out rushed) badly when you don't get stuck behind a wall of B.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Looking at Snake, it's easy to forget he has a button other than B.

?Nah, its really easy to see them use the A button.

Up Smash is a thing.

 

[DelugeFGC]

Yes but that move (as well as many of Snake's moves) is slow and you can read it from a year in the future if you're playing patiently. Snake isn't gonna rush you down, he wants you to try to rush him down BUT he wants you to do it in specific ways he can deal with, as there's several holes in Snake's defense.. most of which are opened by any character with decent speed / range. His recovery, as good as it is, is also fairly linear and easy to punish.

All said I still think Snake is a definite high tier. He's the king of trades due to aforementioned grenades, getting consistent combos on Snake just doesn't happen.

 

[channel_KYX]

Snake is pretty good, but when you can get in his face and stay in his face, never giving him a second and never fearing his zoning ability.. he kind of has a really hard time.

All of his normals have pretty piss range / hitboxes compared to his B moves,

I'd challenge that reply. His jab and tilts are pretty fast and cover good range. Being in his face is by no means a guaranteed win. He has less melee options than other characters, but they cover almost everything.

 

[DelugeFGC]

I'd challenge that reply. His jab and tilts are pretty fast and cover good range. Being in his face is by no means a guaranteed win. He has less melee options than other characters, but they cover almost everything.

His jab and tilts don't have fantastic range and there are multiple characters who can easily outspace him in 'face' range due to this. His jab and tilts also get beaten out by many other moves in the game.

Snake starts to fall apart when you're close to him if playing a character with decent speed and/or range. Go play Chrom, Roy, Ike, Cloud, Lucina, Marth, etc. and then compare their immediate grounded options to Snake's. Snake's falls totally and completely short, it's not just those characters either. They're viable tools still, but when it comes down to a straight up-close-and-personal, Snake better hope he's either holding onto a grenade or he reacts before his opponent.. otherwise he's likely about to lose neutral.

The only time Snake does well in close quarters is against slower characters & characters with very poor range AND sometimes he can hold onto his grenades as a clutch combo ender / trade tool.. but against faster characters especially, in the time it takes it to explode you've eaten at least 2 aerials and they can likely recover out of the explosion fast enough to still keep pressure on you. Snake does best at medium to long range when on the ground, he's fairly okay in the air but he doesn't have the best air speed to match it and his aerials still have poor range compared to what many other characters have. Snake is a very good character, a definite High Tier.. but he does have problems in certain MU's like the examples I mentioned above.

He's a character more focused on playing an oppressive but patient / smart neutral and trading / racking up percent before going for one of his punish kill options, or killing off the edge with something like Nikita. He's not a brawler, rush-down or a spacing character, he's a zoning / neutral oppression / punish character.

 

[Dee Dude]

-You know, ‘s inclusion in the series can really easy to hate because you could find her boring or harmless but when you get down to it, I don’t think having her in is any different then someone like say .

-I’m risking a flame debate for this but I think this whole “Smash Bubble” thing feels like a way for people to hate on popular characters who get talked about too much especially since the term doesn’t even exist anywhere but here.

I agree that hardcore fans aren’t the only ones that matter to Nintendo but people seem to jump on others for wanting Banjo/Geno/Isaac instead of a recent/casual pick but they never seem to actually explain and state what kind of characters the general public are truly requesting.

I’d hardly consider picks like Sora, Bandana Dee, and Rayman in the Bubble because those kinds of characters are widely known and popular outside of this community.

I know we’re just an extremely vocal minority as far as the internet goes but I’m curious to know what exactly kind of requests those 2 million people are making so we can get a better view outside of this alleged “Smash Bubble”

-I wish Sakurai just stuck to Retro again like when making left field characters.