Unpopular Smash Ultimate Opinions! - Read the OP before Posting

[DelugeFGC]

Yeah, but that's not a hard bar to sail over. Brawl Ganon was.. my god.. I just get sad thinking about it.

Ganon currently I feel is being placed too high while Falcon is being placed too low, as the meta develops and each character is figured out more I see Falcon rising a good deal but I could potentially see Ganon ending up in the bottom of mid-tier, especially if rockcrocking isn't fixed because it hurts him WAAAY more than it does Falcon.

 

[Gerbs]

Yeah, not paying too much mind to over-all placements this early in the game, but I agree with that he'll settle somewhere in mid.

 

[Xelrog]

rockcrocking

You've used this phrase a couple times. May I ask?

 

[DelugeFGC]

You've used this phrase a couple times. May I ask?

There was a competitive Melee player by this name whom this is named after. It involves stage teching Falcon / Ganon's Up-B command grab, then putting out an instant aerial while they're still stuck in endlag. This condemns Ganon to death 100% of the time at any %, and Falcon gets screwed by it at higher percents or if he lacks his jump. It's a problem because of how free it is to do. There's a solid window between the Up-B connecting and the launch for you to prepare to time the stage tech, then simply flick the C-Stick and boom. The endlag of the command grab sets them up like a sitting duck. I've found Falcon can SOMETIMES get missed, barely, but Ganon never does. Ganon also has worse air mobility and the more meh recovery of the two, so when it happens to him he dies at any %.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Yeah, but that's not a hard bar to sail over. Brawl Ganon was.. my god.. I just get sad thinking about it.

Ganon currently I feel is being placed too high while Falcon is being placed too low, as the meta develops and each character is figured out more I see Falcon rising a good deal but I could potentially see Ganon ending up in the bottom of mid-tier, especially if rockcrocking isn't fixed because it hurts him WAAAY more than it does Falcon.

Let's not forget that mobility is against Ganondorf as well. If he can't keep up with the competition, then things will continue to get worse as time passes. His recovery is already poor, partially due to how slow his air speed is.

 

[DelugeFGC]

Let's not forget that mobility is against Ganondorf as well. If he can't keep up with the competition, then things will continue to get worse as time passes. His recovery is already poor, partially due to how slow his air speed is.

Yeah I feel Ganon is a bit overhyped at the moment and as the meta develops, he's gonna be in pain unless he gets buffed. It saddens me a lot to see how many people cry for nerfs on him.

 

[Arthur97]

Yeah I feel Ganon is a bit overhyped at the moment and as the meta develops, he's gonna be in pain unless he gets buffed. It saddens me a lot to see how many people cry for nerfs on him.

Welcome to Chrom's world.

 

[DelugeFGC]

Welcome to Chrom's world.

Chrom's biggest problem is a recovery that's as exploitable as they come, otherwise I still feel he's pretty solid overall.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Welcome to Chrom's world.

Unlike Ganondorf however, most people unironically agreed that Chrom was overpowered. The majority of tier lists had Chrom in high A or S and Ganon no higher than B, up until Chrom was nerfed.

Chrom is still viable.

Ganon should not be nerfed. He needs buffs.

 

[DelugeFGC]

I don't think the Up-B nerf had any sort of big effect on Chrom, I just think he was initially placed a lot higher than he should've been.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

In the next Smash Roy should actually look like the 15 year old he is versus whatever the hell it is we have now.

 

[DelugeFGC]

Yeah Roy in FE6 was very boyish and young looking, Smash Roy looks more like a guy in his early 20's.

 

[Idon]

In the next Smash Roy should actually look like the 15 year old he is versus whatever the hell it is we have now.

Seriously, Smash Roy is completely different from FE Roy in personality, voice, clothes, and even physical build.

If Roy makes it back next game, I hope they do something more along the lines of his actual appearance.
(Also, with an Eliwood model change)

(Also add Lyn in Smash, dammit)

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Yeah I feel Ganon is a bit overhyped at the moment and as the meta develops, he's gonna be in pain unless he gets buffed. It saddens me a lot to see how many people cry for nerfs on him.

And that's pretty much it. Some people are overestimating Ganondorf's potential, and are not taking into account his most obvious issues. Yes he hits hard, but if he can't keep up with the faster fighters (especially the ones who are doing very well), then that starts to become irrelevant. If Ganondorf can at least run fast enough to keep up with Marth's walking speed, then that would be a good start at making him a more viable fighter.

 

[Xelrog]

People have ever considered Chrom anything but hot garbage? Good players?

Here's a potentially unpopular opinion: Chrom is a worse pick than Ganondorf. I honestly think he's a lower-tier character, and even if he isn't, you have Roy, who is better in every conceivable way. If you pick Ganondorf, maybe you're settling because you don't have a better version of him to choose. If you pick Chrom, you're just stupid.

 

[Arthur97]

Chrom's biggest problem is a recovery that's as exploitable as they come, otherwise I still feel he's pretty solid overall.

Yeah, but Chromicide gives you a reason not to challenge him. Though I think it still works close to the blast line.

Unlike Ganondorf however, most people unironically agreed that Chrom was overpowered. The majority of tier lists had Chrom in high A or S and Ganon no higher than B, up until Chrom was nerfed.

Chrom is still viable.

Ganon should not be nerfed. He needs buffs.

I don't think there was any reasonable argument to say Chrom was ever overpowered. And if you want all suicide moves to be equal, why does Cross Chop still KO the enemy first?

 

[DelugeFGC]

Chrom has problems, but in no world could I ever see anyone familiar with the meta of this game calling him a lower tier pick than Ganondorf and it comes off as sheer lunacy.

Roy has a sweetspot, Chrom doesn't. That alone can give certain players a reason to prefer Chrom, and as good as Roy is, he's not too far ahead of Chrom because his recovery is trash as well, just not as exploitable. At least Chrom's Up-B can be used to challenge things when anti-airing, Roy's is mainly a primary recovery that doubles as a hard read mixup. Chrom's Up-B is a terrible recovery, but it isn't a terrible move. Outside of Up B out of shield, Roy's is pretty much worthless as an attack.

 

[Arthur97]

Also, Roy isn't better in every way. Most would probably tell you Chrom was better without much doubt if he had Blazer. And pre-patch Chromicide actually probably made him better.

 

[DelugeFGC]

Blazer is almost functionally useless outside of recoveries and using it out of shield, Chrom's at least has functional utility outside of recovering and he doesn't have to worry about sweetspotting. I find Roy sucks at edgeguarding because of his sweetspot. It's the sword equivalent of landing a weak knee.

 

[Arthur97]

Blazer is almost functionally useless outside of recoveries and using it out of shield, Chrom's at least has functional utility outside of recovering and he doesn't have to worry about sweetspotting. I find Roy sucks at edgeguarding because of his sweetspot.

You could argue Chrom isn't much better because of the danger. Probably one of the reasons Lucina outshines them both.

 

[DelugeFGC]

You could argue Chrom isn't much better because of the danger. Probably one of the reasons Lucina outshines them both.

As good as I find Roy and Chrom both to be, I find Cloud outdoes them both and Lucina outdoes pretty much every other character in the game and definitely every other swordie. Marth still gets screwed the most because of his tic-tac of a tipper sweetspot, though. At least he's not Corrin I guess.

Regardless of where exactly you think he falls there, it's pretty much widely agreed Chrom is a solid high-tier. If not for the recovery problem, he'd be top tier without a doubt. Chrom's recovery can't be exploited until you get him off stage, though, and he's no Little Mac so that's by no means free or easy.

 

[Arthur97]

As good as I find Roy and Chrom both to be, I find Cloud outdoes them both and Lucina outdoes pretty much every other character in the game and definitely every other swordie. Marth still gets screwed the most because of his tic-tac of a tipper sweetspot, though. At least he's not Corrin I guess.

Regardless of where exactly you think he falls there, it's pretty much widely agreed Chrom is a solid high-tier. If not for the recovery problem, he'd be top tier without a doubt. Chrom's recovery can't be exploited until you get him off stage, though, and he's no Little Mac so that's by no means free or easy.

To be honest, I'm fine with Marth being kind of pointless. Lucina got to sit in the shadows for 4. Still a bit perturbed that Cloud is so good though.

Also, why did my quote pick up more text than I actually see in the post itself?

 

[DelugeFGC]

To be honest, I'm fine with Marth being kind of pointless. Lucina got to sit in the shadows for 4. Still a bit perturbed that Cloud is so good though.

Also, why did my quote pick up more text than I actually see in the post itself?

Because I'm a notorious ninja-editor.

I'm fine with Marth being less viable, but I think he shouldn't get quite so screwed compared to the other high-tier swordies. His tipper should be bigger, with everyone being as fast as they are (in a general sense) in Ult, his spacing game got a lot harder and the small tipper does him no favors.

 

[Arthur97]

Because I'm a notorious ninja-editor.

I'm fine with Marth being less viable, but I think he shouldn't get quite so screwed compared to the other high-tier swordies. His tipper should be bigger, with everyone being as fast as they are (in a general sense) in Ult, his spacing game got a lot harder and the small tipper does him no favors.

Yeah, but making them bigger could also make Lucina pointless competitively again. This is one reason why echoes are a bad idea.

 

[DelugeFGC]

Yeah, but making them bigger could also make Lucina pointless competitively again. This is why echoes are a bad idea.

I don't think so, there's plenty of ways to differentiate them, but at the end of the day one character is always gonna have to be better, even if only slightly.

 

[Arthur97]

I don't think so, there's plenty of ways to differentiate them, but at the end of the day one character is always gonna have to be better, even if only slightly.

Yeah, there are other ways. Clearly they don't care about those.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

is bottom 5 and needs galleon-loads of buffs to be viable in the current meta.

Weakest super-heavy, even more so then .
Who IMO actually isn't that bad, like possibly better then .

...
Those are my unpopular opinions.

 

[DelugeFGC]

is bottom 5 and needs galleon-loads of buffs to be viable in the current meta.

Weakest super-heavy, even more so then .
Who IMO actually isn't that bad, like possibly better then .

...
Those are my unpopular opinions.

K-Rool being trash isn't that unpopular of an opinion.. hell it's the truth.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

K-Rool being trash isn't that unpopular of an opinion.. hell it's the truth.

I've seen some talk about K. Rool.
People say he's weak, but not bottom 5...

That's where I come in.

 

[DelugeFGC]

I don't know if I'd say bottom 5 off the cusp, but bottom 15 for sure and the 2nd worst heavy in the game behind Zard.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I don't know if I'd say bottom 5 off the cusp, but bottom 15 for sure and the 2nd worst heavy in the game behind Zard.

Now see I'm the opposite.

I straight up think people don't know how to play Zard.

I keep seeing people trying to do ludicrous things like poking with B-air and not using F-tilt or D-tilt at all.

People don't use Flamethrower as a neutral tool, when in certain matchups they absolutely should.

As a Charizard main in Smash 4, I see people underestimating him for the same reasons as they did last game...

K.Rool is worse honestly.

 

[i am idiot]

i'm pretty sure if all the fire emblem characters were unique from one another and 60% weren't clones of the same character, there would be WAY more acceptance of them

 

[Mogisthelioma]

i'm pretty sure if all the fire emblem characters were unique from one another and 60% weren't clones of the same character, there would be WAY more acceptance of them

I don't doubt that.

 

[osby]

i'm pretty sure if all the fire emblem characters were unique from one another and 60% weren't clones of the same character, there would be WAY more acceptance of them

Is this even an unpopular opinion? I feel like most people justify their distaste towards Fire Emblem like this anyway.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

K-Rool being trash isn't that unpopular of an opinion.. hell it's the truth.

It definitely doesn't help that people were expecting him to be a highly viable super-heavyweight. But you need a whole lot more than just the belly armor mechanic to try to get past the competition.

To make K. Rool a better fighter, he could really go for the tough guy mechanic, better overall mobility (especially air speed, which I feel that it should've been much better than what he ended up with), and stronger armor (or not as much start-up lag) for his slower attacks. Also, his up special should give him knockback-based heavy armor that protects him from taking knockback, or at least until he begins to take more than 150 units of knockback, or when he enters a helpless state.

As for the d-throw, to increase the amount of time that a fighter is buried, better knockback statistics would most likely come to mind.

I would go on further by stating that K. Rool should also fall faster and have lower gravity, but having stronger vertical endurance does come with its drawbacks for such a big target; Dedede knows that rather well.

And before I finish up, is it too much to ask for K. Rool to be heavier than Bowser?

 

[Calamitas]

Here's a more minor one: I get that Fire Emblem Fates isn't. . . exactly the most well-received game in its series, but there still should've been more songs from it in Ultimate than just four variations of "Lost in Thoughts all Alone". In particular, it's just a huge missed opportunity that songs like Dusk Falls (Fire), A Dark Fall (Fire) and Alight (Storm) didn't get included.

 

[TyrantLizardKing]

Here's an input, which could be considered unpopular...

Ridley is too dark and edgy for Ultimate's more cartoonish approach.

Hard disagree, Ridley is supposed to be a grotesque monster. This is the same being that gave his soldiers freedom to massacre and then slashed and ate Samus' mother right in front of her as a child. If he had that dopey Brawl design again I would have been very disappointed, Ultimate Ridley is by and far the best Ridley design we've ever gotten.

And it's not like he's without personality. His eyes show when he's focused or hurt. He makes a big grin in his digging victory pose. His side & down taunts show how he can be flashy and a showoff, hell one of his idle animations has him stroke his beak while hissing with clearly sinister intent. They did Ridley far, FAR better than I ever expected them to after all those years "LE TOO BIG ECKSDEE".

Ganondorf is set up to be slow, so hitting harder than most other fighters would make sense. However, being so slow that most of the top 10 fastest walkers can walk faster than your running speed can be one heck of a handicap when you have to approach your opponents to do anything.

Incineroar suffers from the same dilemma as well, but it's far worse when you realize that nearly half of the roster can outwalk its running speed.

The difference is that Incineroar's actual frame data isn't bad like Ganon's, plus he has multiple options for recovery, a counter that makes him hit even harder, and a great set of throws and aerials.

 

[DelugeFGC]

Now see I'm the opposite.

I straight up think people don't know how to play Zard.

I keep seeing people trying to do ludicrous things like poking with B-air and not using F-tilt or D-tilt at all.

People don't use Flamethrower as a neutral tool, when in certain matchups they absolutely should.

As a Charizard main in Smash 4, I see people underestimating him for the same reasons as they did last game...

K.Rool is worse honestly.

Every Charizard I've faced, I've won. That's not a brag, I'm not some unstoppable god with a huge winning streak. I have serious issues dealing with Ivysaur sometimes. Every game with Zard I've locally seen in tournament, he lost. Doesn't matter what the MU is, every time I see Charizard focused on in a battle, the player using him starts suffering.. hard. I think losing Rock Smash did hurt as I personally think Flare Blitz is kind of useless and easy as hell to read, but the biggest thing is just Ultimate being a much faster game with heavier disadvantage. It really screws Zard.. and characters like him. I just think he got the worst of it.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The difference is that Incineroar's actual frame data isn't bad like Ganon's, plus he has multiple options for recovery, a counter that makes him hit even harder, and a great set of throws and aerials.

If that's the case, then it would at least make up for Incineroar's sluggish ground mobility. But even then, it could at least afford to be a bit faster (right now it walks slower than even Melee Bowser), though its running speed would have to stay slower than that of Villager's running speed; I do see Incineroar having the worst mobility average of all fighters anyway.

And speaking of mobility, I do find it awkward knowing that Rosalina is now slower than Bowser at everything, except for walking. I know that she's paired with a Luma, but considering what happened to her overall viability, it now feels wrong for her to be so mediocre with her movement.

 

[DelugeFGC]

Incineroar is hurt most by his abysmal speed that prevents him from following up a lot of stuff he'd otherwise be able to, his #1 top spot worst recovery in the game and by the fact he's combo food.

He's still quite good, though. If he had his dash fixed he could go a long way, could be the king of mid tier.