Unpopular Smash Opinions (BE CIVIL)

[fogbadge]

Sometimes I miss being able to run past people

lockdown ended ages ago

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

I've been thinking a lot about doctor clones lately, and I think the best option would be Dr. Diddy Kong. You'd likely need to redesign him for Smash given he's one of the more basic doctor redesigns, but I think he would be a really interesting character functionally as a slow, heavy character with a tiny frame; you could implement some kind of "healing bait" attack in place of banana peel, which I've always felt was a cool idea and has somewhat prescedence for Diddy's moveset; the wooden head mirror is a very distinctive trait; megavitamin-coloured peanuts would be cute; and he well represents the post-Country intersection between DK and Mario, which I think has gone underrepped in Smash.

 

[TheZizz]

This might be a popular opinion but I just have no taste for grounding moves. DKs side-b is great and all but man. Also the super armor is very generous in ultimate, and it sorts of "breaks the rules" where intercepting a slow attack with a quick jab is a bit of a crapshoot since they might just bust out the unstoppable la bomba donk. Kinda like parry actually. (There's a fan mod of sephiroth where he has a "delayed" down-b, it looks awesome and the mechanics compliment his style so well.) Anyway the thing with super armor is it's simulating huge momentum which is not just velocity but mass too. And you have lots of moves that you'd never guess would have super armor for how frail the fighters look. Nevertheless super armor is a cool addition (formalization) all things considered

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Now that I think about it, it makes no sense that Ganondorf only gains super armor when he uses Warlock Punch on the ground. He should also have super armor while in the air to ensure that nothing but grabs (and attacks that ignore armor) can interrupt the attack.

 

[A_Kae]

Now that I think about it, it makes no sense that Ganondorf only gains super armor when he uses Warlock Punch on the ground. He should also have super armor while in the air to ensure that nothing but grabs (and attacks that ignore armor) can interrupt the attack.

It's a deliberate weakness on various armored attacks to stop them from being useful as reversal options, but with warlock punch being, what, 70f startup with the armor on f10? Would almost never actually be useful so I agree he really ought to get armor always for the very rare occasions when it works. I mean you really can't buff a move with that much startup enough, so you may as well throw on everything imaginable.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I've been thinking a lot about doctor clones lately, and I think the best option would be Dr. Diddy Kong. You'd likely need to redesign him for Smash given he's one of the more basic doctor redesigns, but I think he would be a really interesting character functionally as a slow, heavy character with a tiny frame; you could implement some kind of "healing bait" attack in place of banana peel, which I've always felt was a cool idea and has somewhat prescedence for Diddy's moveset; the wooden head mirror is a very distinctive trait; megavitamin-coloured peanuts would be cute; and he well represents the post-Country intersection between DK and Mario, which I think has gone underrepped in Smash.

Weird choice but obviously, I'd take it. Are you serious though?

I want this purely so that there will be another playable Diddy, and Dr.Diddy would probably be a little stronger and have a wicked strong Forward Air like he used to. That's a reason for me to want this.

Am quite positive you're joking however.

 

[UserKev]

Pokemon is the worst thing to happen to Smash in the long run. I know you can typically make a case for Fire Emblem but at least Fire Emblem protagonists tend to not be overly in your face. Pokemon is a case of could have been and ended up being. We'll be stuck with a roster of starters for a long extended period that even Lucario doesn't appear to have changed much.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

Weird choice but obviously, I'd take it. Are you serious though?

I want this purely so that there will be another playable Diddy, and Dr.Diddy would probably be a little stronger and have a wicked strong Forward Air like he used to. That's a reason for me to want this.

Am quite positive you're joking however.

I don't joke around with Smash picks, at least not solely - "it'd be funny" plays a part in most picks I suggest, since Smash is ultimately a goofy-ass game where bananas and Japanese comedy fans rain from the sky, but there's always a deeper logic than that, usually in relation to either functionality or animations. I don't try for reactions, at least not conciously, as much as just share ideas I think are neat.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Any tangentially related to the above concept, but while I'm iffy on DK and Mario doing any crossovers in any mainline games as that could dilute the individual nature of the former, I'm all for both franchises being working together more in spin-offs. Heck a Dr Mario game with the likes of Dr. Diddy being prominent would be quite enjoyable. Same with other stuff; give me a modern Wrecking Crew game where Donkey Kong pops up while Mario and Luigi are dealing with Foreman Spike again.

 

[MartianSnake]

Any tangentially related to the above concept, but while I'm iffy on DK and Mario doing any crossovers in any mainline games as that could dilute the individual nature of the former, I'm all for both franchises being working together more in spin-offs. Heck a Dr Mario game with the likes of Dr. Diddy being prominent would be quite enjoyable. Same with other stuff; give me a modern Wrecking Crew game where Donkey Kong pops up while Mario and Luigi are dealing with Foreman Spike again.

This is a Smash Bros opinion thread

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

This is a Smash Bros opinion thread

Fair enough. One of the reasons it would be cool if such crossovers existed is because they could then manifest in some unorthodox Smash representation as a result. A Dr. Mario stage where if Dr Mario is selected, a wide variety of alternative Doctors (Dr. Luigi, Dr. Diddy, Dr Peach, etc) would appear in the background as a result. Same with the Wrecking Crew/Arcade DK crossover concept which would make for an intriguing stage if you had one that incorporated elements from both franchises in the level proper.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Pokemon is the worst thing to happen to Smash in the long run. I know you can typically make a case for Fire Emblem but at least Fire Emblem protagonists tend to not be overly in your face. Pokemon is a case of could have been and ended up being. We'll be stuck with a roster of starters for a long extended period that even Lucario doesn't appear to have changed much.

In Lucario's defense, it is the only fighter to utilize the Aura mechanic, which makes it unique when compared to the rest of the roster.

 

[UserKev]

In Lucario's defense, it is the only fighter to utilize the Aura mechanic, which makes it unique when compared to the rest of the roster.

It's unfortunate we may need another Lucario situation to hope for more unique Pokemon. It kinda seem impossible now. We should have gotten Zoroark that would have added a domino effect kinda in reverse.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

We should have gotten Zoroark that would have added a domino effect kinda in reverse.

Then you'd be complaining instead that all we get is movie shills that are in your face and nothing "more unique" like Jigglypuff.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

It's unfortunate we may need another Lucario situation to hope for more unique Pokemon. It kinda seem impossible now. We should have gotten Zoroark that would have added a domino effect kinda in reverse.

Zoroark had its chance. But when you think it over, while seeing Zoroark disguise itself (with its Illusion ability) as someone else would sound neat in theory, it's when you try to execute that idea where things could turn very messy.

 

[UserKev]

Then you'd be complaining instead that all we get is movie shills that are in your face and nothing "more unique" like Jigglypuff.

My whole rhetoric is at least Zoroak wouldn't follow the starter formula. I would definitely take a movie shill over starters right now. Imma be fair. Incineroar is fun and unique enough as an addition. I believe Starter appeal/hype will end with gen 7 starters/Decidueye, Primarina.

Maybe you should put some effort in coming up with your own opinions rather critiquing us if you have a problem.

Zoroark had its chance. But when you think it over, while seeing Zoroark disguise itself (with its Illusion ability) as someone else would sound neat in theory, it's when you try to execute that idea where things could turn very messy.

The Illusion ability could have been re-conceptualized. Or Maybe Zoroak could have been the Shang Tsung of Smash Bros. Have him revert to almost any character for a brief period that follows the same rules. Just a thought.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

My whole rhetoric is at least Zoroak wouldn't follow the starter formula. I would definitely take a movie shill over starters right now. Imma be fair. Incineroar is fun and unique enough as an addition. I believe Starter appeal/hype will end with gen 7 starters/Decidueye, Primarina.

Yes. Right now.
But if we followed the rhetoric you propose in place of what we have now and had Zoroark instead of Greninja and had more fighters like Zoroark and Lucario (and Mewtwo) following suit, then you wouldn't and would instead be having the same complaint now as you do about the starters while labeling the very ones you call "unique" now the exact opposite.
Grass is always greener on the other side of the fence and all.

Maybe you should put some effort in coming up with your own opinions rather critiquing us if you have a problem.

Maybe you should put actual effort into your opinions in the first place. :V



And on a related note, been wanting to get this off my chest for a while, and now is the perfect time. The collective mindset of the fandom about how we can only get starters because of Greninja and Incineroar, leading to a sort of "starter doomerism" in a number of people throughout SmashBoards, GameFaqs, Reddit, etc. is ridiculous.

It shows just how tunnel-visioned people get in regards to Pokémon and it's something I've called out multiple times in the other thread.
I remember when it was that we could only get movie stars because of Mewtwo and Lucario. It took Greninja to break away from that pitfall and it looks like the next Pokémon is going to have to do the same because everyone's laser focused on starters whether they want one or not.
We shouldn't be at a point where we continue to make the same mistakes and never learn from them.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I don't joke around with Smash picks, at least not solely - "it'd be funny" plays a part in most picks I suggest, since Smash is ultimately a goofy-ass game where bananas and Japanese comedy fans rain from the sky, but there's always a deeper logic than that, usually in relation to either functionality or animations. I don't try for reactions, at least not conciously, as much as just share ideas I think are neat.

I do remember your suggestions for Smash Infinite (back when that was a thing) were certainly... unique. Though I also remember the one time you DID make a joke suggestion, it ended up winning that round.

This isn't me calling you out or anything, I thought it was fun to watch even if I didn't agree with most of them. Points for creativity, I say.

 

[Perkilator]

And on a related note, been wanting to get this off my chest for a while, and now is the perfect time. The collective mindset of the fandom about how we can only get starters because of Greninja and Incineroar, leading to a sort of "starter doomerism" in a number of people throughout SmashBoards, GameFaqs, Reddit, etc. is ridiculous.

It shows just how tunnel-visioned people get in regards to Pokémon and it's something I've called out multiple times in the other thread.
I remember when it was that we could only get movie stars because of Mewtwo and Lucario. It took Greninja to break away from that pitfall and it looks like the next Pokémon is going to have to do the same because everyone's laser focused on starters whether they want one or not.
We shouldn't be at a point where we continue to make the same mistakes and never learn from them.

Tbh, that’s kind of my beef with the Smash fandom as a whole, not just in regards to Pokémon. There are no concrete patterns with any fighter. Remember when, just as an example, people thought we’d get Jonesy in Ultimate when Steve was revealed? We saw how that went a year later.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Tbh, that’s kind of my beef with the Smash fandom as a whole, not just in regards to Pokémon. There are no concrete patterns with any fighter. Remember when, just as an example, people thought we’d get Jonesy in Ultimate when Steve was revealed? We saw how that went a year later.

Or how Chun-Li and Eggman were locks immediately after Sephiroth because of being a secondary 3rd Party addition (and villain in Eggman's case)?

Or Cinderace immediately after Byleth because of being a "disappointing yet inevitable 1st Party shill"?

Or Crash immediately after Banjo because.....cartoon animal platformer 3rd Party....? Yeah, this one was a bit forced of a comparison and yet that's what happened.


Yeah, the fandom had a habit of taking the last reveal and finding the "next relatable one in line".

 

[chocolatejr9]

Or how Chun-Li and Eggman were locks immediately after Sephiroth because of being a secondary 3rd Party addition (and villain in Eggman's case)?

Or Cinderace immediately after Byleth because of being a "disappointing yet inevitable 1st Party shill"?

Or Crash immediately after Banjo because.....cartoon animal platformer 3rd Party....? Yeah, this one was a bit forced of a comparison and yet that's what happened.


Yeah, the fandom had a habit of taking the last reveal and finding the "next relatable one in line".

Don't forget Adol after Terry's reveal due to "obscure third party with a massive legacy". Though admittedly after playing Ys 8, I wouldn't be too upset if they added him...

 

[SharkLord]

Or how Chun-Li and Eggman were locks immediately after Sephiroth because of being a secondary 3rd Party addition (and villain in Eggman's case)?

Or Cinderace inmediately after Byleth because of being a "disappointing yet inevitable 1st Party shill"?

Or Crash immediately after Banjo because.....cartoon animal platformer 3rd Party....? Yeah, this one was a bit forced of a comparison and yet that's what happened.


Yeah, the fandom had a habit of taking the last reveal and finding the "next relatable one in line".

Ooh yeah, I remember that. After Min Min, the whole pass was going to be Switch first-parties that missed the boat for base game. After Steve, it was all megaton hits. After Sephiroth, like you said, it was all characters from third-parties who already had a fighter. After Pyra and Mythra, I think it was back to first-party Switch shills. And after Kazuya...

Actually no, we all gave up after Kazuya. We all thought fighters would release alongside Mii Costumes from their series, because why wouldn't they? We just got Hero, let's roll out the DQ Miis when he drops. We just got Steve, let's time the Minecraft Miis for his release. Ergo, Miis from series without a fighter should cross that franchise off the list, right? And then Kazuya happened, and even the most logical theories were invalidated, and there was nothing to theorize with anymore.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Don't forget Adol after Terry's reveal due to "obscure third party with a massive legacy". Though admittedly after playing Ys 8, I wouldn't be too upset if they added him...

You know, I do remember Adol getting more discussion after Terry. Or just Falcom in general as the "next SNK".

I forgot all about that since it wasn't as intense and died down relatively quicker.
But it did happen.

 

[SharkLord]

Don't forget Adol after Terry's reveal due to "obscure third party with a massive legacy". Though admittedly after playing Ys 8, I wouldn't be too upset if they added him...

I think Adol came a bit later, actually. Someone dug up a fake 4chan leak discussing Falcom characters, Ys fans (me) used the opportunity to talk about the game, Terry had already left a precedent for smaller legacy third-parties, and suddenly everyone on SmashBoards has at least heard Adol's name. I think that leak was after Min Min, though

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Ooh yeah, I remember that. After Min Min, the whole pass was going to be Switch first-parties that missed the boat for base game. After Steve, it was all megaton hits. After Sephiroth, like you said, it was all characters from third-parties who already had a fighter. After Pyra and Mythra, I think it was back to first-party Switch shills. And after Kazuya...

Actually no, we all gave up after Kazuya. We all thought fighters would release alongside Mii Costumes from their series, because why wouldn't they? We just got Hero, let's roll out the DQ Miis when he drops. We just got Steve, let's time the Minecraft Miis for his release. Ergo, Miis from series without a fighter should cross that franchise off the list, right? And then Kazuya happened, and even the most logical theories were invalidated, and there was nothing to theorize with anymore.

There was also the "the last character is just going to something mediocre" because of how other times ended. The base roster ended on Incineroar. Vol. 1 ended on Byleth. Smash For DLC ended on the controversial Bayonetta (as well as Corrin). Etc.
So people used that to shut down "bigger" characters. And then it was Sora.
Who I personally found mediocre myself, but I can't deny he was an objectively big deal regardless.

 

[SharkLord]

There was also the "the last character is just going to something mediocre" because of how other times ended. The base roster ended on Incineroar. Vol. 1 ended on Byleth. Smash For DLC ended on the controversial Bayonetta (as well as Corrin). Etc.
So people used that to shut down "bigger" characters. And then it was Sora.
Who I personally found mediocre myself, but I can't deny he was an objectively big deal regardless.

Funnily enough, if it weren't for a chance meeting with a Disney exec, the pass ender would've probably been Kazuya. Tekken is definitely pretty big so Kazuya's still a bigger character, but given how much debate I see regarding his kit I feel like there would've been some controversy regardless.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Funnily enough, if it weren't for a chance meeting with a Disney exec, the pass ender would've probably been Kazuya. Tekken is definitely pretty big so Kazuya's still a bigger character, but given how much debate I see regarding his kit I feel like there would've been some controversy regardless.

I think the order got shifted around when Sora was added to the lineup.

I remember internally that Sephiroth was at the end of the character parameter data in a pre-Sora datamine while Kazuya was right after Steve and Pyra/Mythra after Kazuya but before Sephiroth.

So good chance we'd ended on Sephiroth and he's definitely a huge deal himself.

Edit: Link to the post.

 

[SharkLord]

I think the order got shifted around when Sora was added to the lineup.

I remember internally that Sephiroth was at the end of the character parameter data in a pre-Sora datamine while Kazuya was right after Steve and Pyra/Mythra after Kazuya but before Sephiroth.

So good chance we'd ended on Sephiroth and he's definitely a huge deal himself.

Edit: Link to the post.

Man, that'd be one hell of a way to go, huh? Last fighter in the pass and it's Sephiroth cleaving Galeem in half and shredding through the entire cast of Smash Bros.

...Actually, imagine if the schedule wasn't shifted around and we got Sephiroth and Sora back to back? That would've been quite a show.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Or how Chun-Li and Eggman were locks immediately after Sephiroth because of being a secondary 3rd Party addition (and villain in Eggman's case)?

Or Cinderace immediately after Byleth because of being a "disappointing yet inevitable 1st Party shill"?

Or Crash immediately after Banjo because.....cartoon animal platformer 3rd Party....? Yeah, this one was a bit forced of a comparison and yet that's what happened.


Yeah, the fandom had a habit of taking the last reveal and finding the "next relatable one in line".

I still remember the time range where I was wondering if Crash Bandicoot would make the cut in Ultimate. But in the end, it was clear that Activision didn't want any involvement in the game.

 

[Ze Diglett]

And on a related note, been wanting to get this off my chest for a while, and now is the perfect time. The collective mindset of the fandom about how we can only get starters because of Greninja and Incineroar, leading to a sort of "starter doomerism" in a number of people throughout SmashBoards, GameFaqs, Reddit, etc. is ridiculous.

It shows just how tunnel-visioned people get in regards to Pokémon and it's something I've called out multiple times in the other thread.
I remember when it was that we could only get movie stars because of Mewtwo and Lucario. It took Greninja to break away from that pitfall and it looks like the next Pokémon is going to have to do the same because everyone's laser focused on starters whether they want one or not.
We shouldn't be at a point where we continue to make the same mistakes and never learn from them.

Smash fans definitely do have a problem with recency bias. I remember because of Smash 4's newcomers focusing mainly on more recent characters, people thought Captain Toad was a lock for Ultimate and K. Rool would for sure lose out to Dixie Kong. Now in the wake of Ultimate, we're totally getting Crash and Doom Slayer and whoever else from whatever non-Nintendo AAA hit you can imagine. Any time Smash fans identify a "pattern," expect it to be broken. Not even in the "Sakurai is an entropic void" way, just in the sense that people are really bad about this sort of thing.

Personally, I'm just hoping for a Pokemon not from the most recent generation at some point. I know it won't happen, but it'd be a nice change of pace.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Smash fans definitely do have a problem with recency bias. I remember because of Smash 4's newcomers focusing mainly on more recent characters, people thought Captain Toad was a lock for Ultimate and K. Rool would for sure lose out to Dixie Kong. Now in the wake of Ultimate, we're totally getting Crash and Doom Slayer and whoever else from whatever non-Nintendo AAA hit you can imagine. Any time Smash fans identify a "pattern," expect it to be broken. Not even in the "Sakurai is an entropic void" way, just in the sense that people are really bad about this sort of thing.

Personally, I'm just hoping for a Pokemon not from the most recent generation at some point. I know it won't happen, but it'd be a nice change of pace.

I would say there is merit in the idea of roster picks being primarily around what is relevant at the time it's finalized because we have been told as such and we can see it firsthand.

We just also know exceptions do exist. Since Brawl a slot is reserved for a Pokémon of the next upcoming Generation after the project proposal is finished as opposed to the one currently active. The token "surprise character" could be something from the 80s with little to no modern relevance such as Duck Hunt. Something like the Ballot superceded relevance because the focus was on filling out major requests like K. Rool.

The best course is just not to deal in absolutes and err on the side of caution knowing you can be proven wrong (like I was with Sora after deeming him a near impossibility due to thinking Disney would be problematic to negotiate with). Unless it's like Goku or something. That line had been clearly drawn several times over.


Like, I don't think Isaac is going to happen (an unpopular opinon in itself fittingly for this thread) because Golden Sun hasn't had anything since 2010. And if gun to head, had to place a bet, I'd bet against it. But I won't deny that there is that off chance Sakurai could throw him in anyway because he's had requests.

 

[TheZizz]

No one on this forum would have thought of the concept of Hero in a million years. Well maybe one rando would and would promptly get ratioed to oblivion. We'd all be playing an heir apparent to Nick all stars which would never permit something so amusing in standard play, if the ninjas of the smash community had their way. Not that there's something wrong with that style of game. But what a glaring omission Hero would be, for me at least. Actually in many ways Smash 4 was that game that all the people who boycotted brawl (despite logging in every day) wanted, as if smash 4 was heads and shoulders above. (I mean it is in many ways but damn if I don't miss laser cancel, klaw hop, etc.) Anyway point being sakurai remains undefeated lul

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

We'd all be playing an heir apparent to Nick all stars which would never permit something so amusing in standard play,

Assuming you're talking about Hero functionally... both NASBs do have RNG in character movesets. Grandma Gertie in NASB2 has an item dropping mechanic, while Powdered Toast Man in NASB1 had a random flight move (it was made uniform in a patch, but solely because of replay glitches) and Rocko's jackhammer in both games moves randomly. Both Squidward and Gertie have RNG KO moves (Squidward having effectively Judge 9 through Bold & Brash, while Grandma Gertie can summon a piano that works like Snorlax). There is a very obvious and value-neutral design difference between how NASB and Smash handle RNG though, since both NASBs are - at least attempting to be - inherently skill-based, Gertie's piano is something you have lure foes into when it's summoned for instance, it's not instant, while Smash is very big on equal playing fields across skill-gaps.

 

[Perkilator]

Honestly, I’m hoping that the next game goes back to the Brawl style of character reveals (i.e. revealing both veterans and newcomers on the website periodically, and then saving the big reveals for things like Directs). I also kinda hope they reveal the characters in each Fighters pass ahead of time, as unlikely as that sounds.

 

[TheZizz]

Assuming you're talking about Hero functionally... both NASBs do have RNG in character movesets. Grandma Gertie in NASB2 has an item dropping mechanic, while Powdered Toast Man in NASB1 had a random flight move (it was made uniform in a patch, but solely because of replay glitches) and Rocko's jackhammer in both games moves randomly. Both Squidward and Gertie have RNG KO moves (Squidward having effectively Judge 9 through Bold & Brash, while Grandma Gertie can summon a piano that works like Snorlax). There is a very obvious and value-neutral design difference between how NASB and Smash handle RNG though, since both NASBs are - at least attempting to be - inherently skill-based, Gertie's piano is something you have lure foes into when it's summoned for instance, it's not instant, while Smash is very big on equal playing fields across skill-gaps.

Nice, and I'd expect no less than something akin to peach's down-b, Luigi misfire etc. I am of the mind that RNG can make for a good test of improvisation and how well one prepares contingencies. Though Hero's down-b is way overkill, but they wisely erred on the side of making him underpowered which makes a victory all-the-more spectacular

 

[MartianSnake]

Honestly, I’m hoping that the next game goes back to the Brawl style of character reveals (i.e. revealing both veterans and newcomers on the website periodically, and then saving the big reveals for things like Directs). I also kinda hope they reveal the characters in each Fighters pass ahead of time, as unlikely as that sounds.

I wouldn't want them to cause a mental separation between "major and minor newcomers" aside from like, echoes.

All that stuff is subjective, and we also don't need more labels and rules for the Fandom to get latched onto and misinterpret.

In a perfect world it would be nice, but Smash fans are weird and always take things the wrong way

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

I think you could make an argument for... basicallly what Brawl did with trailers, 3Ps get big fanfare; 1Ps are just blog posts - most devoted 1P fans have at least some level of dislike towards hype culture and awareness that trailers are damaging in some way towards 1Ps (even if just in terms of fandom culture) from what I've seen, and it is rigid enough to where it's hard to find a faulty pattern. BUT that creates a new issue with DLC pre-reveals, and while not many Nintendo characters would make waves outside of devoted Smash fandom anymore, there's a purple, skinny elephant in the room who adds a level of awkwardness to that proposition and would be impossible to walk around without either breaking that rigidness a little or losing out on maximum attention for what could be the biggest unit-seller - more than most potential 3Ps - of base game. I think the best way to deal with the fallout that comes from trailers, at least of the CGI variety, is scorched earth. Either that or batch reveals like people thought the Grinch Leak would lead into, even if it'd be narratively incoherent. You could even have CGI trailers after a reveal - just show someone Crashbandicoot.jpg and let them speculate on how he'll make his entrance, just like we did back with real leaks.

 

[fogbadge]

I think you could make an argument for... basicallly what Brawl did with trailers, 3Ps get big fanfare; 1Ps are just blog posts - most devoted 1P fans have at least some level of dislike towards hype culture and awareness that trailers are damaging in some way towards 1Ps (even if just in terms of fandom culture) from what I've seen, and it is rigid enough to where it's hard to find a faulty pattern. BUT that creates a new issue with DLC pre-reveals, and while not many Nintendo characters would make waves outside of devoted Smash fandom anymore, there's a purple, skinny elephant in the room who adds a level of awkwardness to that proposition and would be impossible to walk around without either breaking that rigidness a little or losing out on maximum attention for what could be the biggest unit-seller - more than most potential 3Ps - of base game. I think the best way to deal with the fallout that comes from trailers, at least of the CGI variety, is scorched earth. Either that or batch reveals like people thought the Grinch Leak would lead into, even if it'd be narratively incoherent. You could even have CGI trailers after a reveal - just show someone Crashbandicoot.jpg and let them speculate on how he'll make his entrance, just like we did back with real leaks.

Skinny purple elephant? Isn’t that one of those retro platformers that’s getting remade?

 

[UserKev]

Yes. Right now.
But if we followed the rhetoric you propose in place of what we have now and had Zoroark instead of Greninja and had more fighters like Zoroark and Lucario (and Mewtwo) following suit, then you wouldn't and would instead be having the same complaint now as you do about the starters while labeling the very ones you call "unique" now the exact opposite.
Grass is always greener on the other side of the fence and all.

But I wasn't making a case for Greninja to be dropped. Literally. I literally said I DON'T BELIEVE WE NEED MORE STARTERS, RIGHT NOW at least. There are more iconic Pokemon to choose from than a Starter.

Maybe you should put actual effort into your opinions in the first place. :V

The ignore feature is your friend.

This is a bit disheartening. Then I really don't know what your trying to suggest. I don't get the standards the community considers of a good high efforted post. I really don't. What's the point of this thread? Everything's been said.

And on a related note, been wanting to get this off my chest for a while, and now is the perfect time. The collective mindset of the fandom about how we can only get starters because of Greninja and Incineroar, leading to a sort of "starter doomerism" in a number of people throughout SmashBoards, GameFaqs, Reddit, etc. is ridiculous.

It shows just how tunnel-visioned people get in regards to Pokémon and it's something I've called out multiple times in the other thread.
I remember when it was that we could only get movie stars because of Mewtwo and Lucario. It took Greninja to break away from that pitfall and it looks like the next Pokémon is going to have to do the same because everyone's laser focused on starters whether they want one or not.
We shouldn't be at a point where we continue to make the same mistakes and never learn from them.

I'm sorry if I came off as rude or arrogant. I will repeat to everyone who are indifferent to my opinions, anything I said regarding Smashboards. The Ignore feature is your friend. I want to be left in peace.

 

[BonafideFella]

i wonder if the mentality that smash bros. is a celebration of gaming exists because (for better or worse) - there's not necessarily something equivalent to what its become, even if that celebrative/legacy aspect i feel is relaively unfounded from a design perspective

i say this because i wonder what the ripple effect would be if there was some (and forgive y phrasing) some grandiose legitimization of the medoiums where all the companies converge , maybe not even in a game itself but in, say, a museum or some other unifying factor. i think its fair to want iconic characters grafted into the smash gameplay style (for all the vry fair critiques and griping, smash bros conceptually is just vry fascinating on a sumo-platfighter level) but the idea that it must be a bastion of legacy feels a little insecure in gaming as a medium

i'm not quite sure if im articulating this right, i just think its a fascinating thought in how they converge, especially since games have been a medium in some part defined by its scrupulosity as "art" in wider cultural conversation.