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Unpopular Smash 4 Opinions v2.0 - Read the OP before posting!

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Flaxr XIII

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That does seem to be a trend, but as you said, with Villager, there are characters that are being added from the old age of Nintendo and I acknowledge Little Mac as one of them.

It is mainly because they are Nintendo characters and had significant steps in Nintendo's history.

They are mainly comparing them with characters like Mario and the like.
I consider this Little Mac to be based off of Punch Out Wii, since his design and moveset is obviously coming from there.

Yeah I'm sure they're great characters, but why weren't they in Melee or Brawl when they were in their prime?

Yeah Mario's probably the most iconic character ever, but it's not fair to compare the newer guys' legacy to his and then dismiss them for not being famous enough yet.

Off topic, but I'm seeing your Ashley avatar just glaring at me. To be honest it's kinda cute...
 

Bearbuddy4

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Sakurai is lazy
-toon link ( not original he's a clone)
-ganondorf=falcondorf
-fox = falco + same final smashes lazy
-Luigi does not use his ghost vacuum thing with his natural moveset( so he's a clone of mario)
-Ness is the same as lucas ( lazy sakurai) + same final smashes
-Sakurai keeps many of the same final smashes for ssb4 even if they were terrible eg Donkey kong
-Lucina is marth in drag( no offense to people who like to dress in drag, hey go have fun, no judging)
-Darkpit...Darkpit, cmon! are you serious sakurai! You might aswell make the shadow link costume from brawl a separate character too. lazy laziness!
-The stages in the 3ds version are mostly old stages!

These are all things that upset me about this series. Its all been directed by one man. Every new iteration of smash bros is the same , more clones, and less new content.

Someone else who Isn't sakurai needs to make the game. Sakurai needs to retire. I mean look at project M, they know what the people want. I don't like project M because I feel that it betrays sakurai to play it, but i keep getting discouraged every smash iteration.
 

Oracle_Summon

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I consider this Little Mac to be based off of Punch Out Wii, since his design and moveset is obviously coming from there.
Well if that is what you see, but I can understand why you see it this way.

Yeah I'm sure they're great characters, but why weren't they in Melee or Brawl when they were in their prime?
Because of the all the characters that had a bigger status attached to them and were not in the game yet.

In Melee - :ganondorfmelee::bowsermelee::zeldamelee::mewtwomelee::peachmelee: and for the Japanese :marthmelee::roymelee:(mainly advertising for Roy)

In Brawl - :dedede::diddy::ike::ivysaur::charizard::squirtle::toonlink::wario::lucario::sonic::snake::metaknight: all of these characters outshined the other characters that had yet to be in Smash Bros.

Going up against the likes of Wario, Snake, Sonic, Charizard, and King Dedede were not the easy task.

You also need to think about the development time for each character, some characters did not leave enough time for the other characters.

Yeah Mario's probably the most iconic character ever, but it's not fair to compare the newer guys' legacy to his and then dismiss them for not being famous enough yet.
True, but sadly, that does not stop people from doing that.

Off topic, but I'm seeing your Ashley avatar just glaring at me. To be honest it's kinda cute...
Uhh.....thanks I guess?
 

Flaxr XIII

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Well if that is what you see, but I can understand why you see it this way.



Because of the all the characters that had a bigger status attached to them and were not in the game yet.

In Melee - :ganondorfmelee::bowsermelee::zeldamelee::mewtwomelee::peachmelee: and for the Japanese :marthmelee::roymelee:(mainly advertising for Roy)

In Brawl - :dedede::diddy::ike::ivysaur::charizard::squirtle::toonlink::wario::lucario::sonic::snake::metaknight: all of these characters outshined the other characters that had yet to be in Smash Bros.

Going up against the likes of Wario, Snake, Sonic, Charizard, and King Dedede were not the easy task.

You also need to think about the development time for each character, some characters did not leave enough time for the other characters.

True, but sadly, that does not stop people from doing that.

Uhh.....thanks I guess?
If they were such iconic characters, they'd have no problem competing with the others. Yes development time is to be considered but wouldn't they then be first in line for the next game?
*sigh* we could be here all day with this.
 

Oracle_Summon

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If they were such iconic characters, they'd have no problem competing with the others. Yes development time is to be considered but wouldn't they then be first in line for the next game?
*sigh* we could be here all day with this.
It is not that they were "iconic", but they were Nintendo characters. I don't recall ever saying anything about characters that are not household names in Nintendo as iconic. It is the fact that characters like:

Bowser,Ganondorf, King Dedede, Wario, Peach, Charizard, Meta Knight, and Zelda/Sheik are hard characters to get in over, especially if these characters come from Nintendo's biggest franchises.
 

Flaxr XIII

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It is not that they were "iconic", but they were Nintendo characters. I don't recall ever saying anything about characters that are not household names in Nintendo as iconic. It is the fact that characters like:

Bowser,Ganondorf, King Dedede, Wario, Peach, Charizard, Meta Knight, and Zelda/Sheik are hard characters to get in over, especially if these characters come from Nintendo's biggest franchises.
DK, Metroid, and Star Fox are considered big franchises. And again, if these were such big name characters, they shouldn't have any trouble competing or fitting in with any other of these characters. If they weren't considered for Melee and they weren't considered for Brawl, why add them now?
Of course Nintendo could just continue to ignore them until Smash 8 and they'll be considered retros by then.
 

Oracle_Summon

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DK, Metroid, and Star Fox are considered big franchises. And again, if these were such big name characters, they shouldn't have any trouble competing or fitting in with any other of these characters.
Huh? Why are you continuing to mention those words? I never tried to establish them as big names and already established that point in my past post. To bring it up again when I explained in my past post that was not what I said, is not making sense to me.

If they weren't considered for Melee and they weren't considered for Brawl, why add them now?
Of course Nintendo could just continue to ignore them until Smash 8 and they'll be considered retros by then.
Because they are Nintendo characters. It may not be the mostly accepted reason, but that is the main reason they would be added to the game.
 
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Flaxr XIII

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Huh? Why are you continuing to mention those words? I never tried to establish them as big names and already established that point in my past post. To bring it up again when I explained in my past post that was not what I said, is not making sense to me.



Because they are Nintendo characters. It may not be the mostly accepted reason, but that is the main reason they would be added to the game.
:facepalm: Okay you lost me somewhere along the way. I think we're done discussing this.
 

Flaxr XIII

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Agreed. MOVING ON.

-I think the laziest thing Sakurai has (presumably) done is give up on the Ice Climbers instead of adjusting them to make it work on the 3DS. We don't know the full details yet but that's what I'll be going by until further notice.
- This game needs more Fire Emblem. At least Fire Emblem items and Smash Run enemies.
 

Oracle_Summon

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Agreed. MOVING ON.

-I think the laziest thing Sakurai has (presumably) done is give up on the Ice Climbers instead of adjusting them to make it work on the 3DS. We don't know the full details yet but that's what I'll be going by until further notice.
- This game needs more Fire Emblem. At least Fire Emblem items and Smash Run enemies.
What items and enemies would you propose for SSB4?
 

Flaxr XIII

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What items and enemies would you propose for SSB4?
For items, I've brought up the Sol blade plenty of times. It heals you half of however much damage you deal. That or the Hand Axes. Could work like the Boomerang except it doesn't come back and is limited to about five throws or so.
For Smash Run, if they're avoiding human enemies, they could easily have the Risen from Awakening. Zombies. It's good enough.
 

Rhubarbo

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That would give us an over abundance of Third Party characters though. This game is about Nintendo's All Stars new and old, first and fore most. 3rd party characters are guests and as such, the more guests you invite to a Private High Ranking Club, the less significance each of them have.

When comparing character's like Shulk to Mario, of course Mario is going to outshine him. That is because Mario has been around longer and had a longer time to turn his name into a household gaming icon. Shulk does not have that opportunity because he is so new to the Nintendo Family.

This game should be mainly about Nintendo's Family, old and new. And it should also show that Nintendo's family does not mainly derive of Mario, Link, Donkey Kong, Samus, Kirby, Pikachu, Fox and the others. This game is the chance for Nintendo's next generation of characters to shine alongside their bigger and older siblings.

I do not agree with people who say that Smash Brothers should get rid of old characters, because that defeats the purpose of having a Nintendo All Star Fighting Game in the first place. To celebrate Nintendo's history, nay, Nintendo's Family.
I'm very happy with how Smash Bros. has united my favourite gaming icons over the last fifteen years. I grew up with Mario, Link, and Pikachu, so I'm thrilled that they're all a part of my favourite fighting game series. I also have fond memories of Punch Out, Fire Emblem, and Pikmin, so I'm happy that Smash Bros. shines its spotlight on the legendary and the obscure. But, I haven't just played first party Nintendo games. I grew up with Final Fantasy, Halo, and Sonic as well. Why shouldn't more third party characters, beyond Sonic and a small handful of others, make it into Smash Bros.?

In the case of Master Chief, I understand that he's tonally unfitting and most importantly a proprietary icon for a competing company. He rightfully doesn't belong in Smash Bros. However, Square Enix and Nintendo are on good terms, so its a shame Final Fantasy's storied history is ignored in order to abide by an intro screen slogan - I don't see why Smash Bros. should just be "Nintendo's all-stars."

If the crux of my quarrel should rest on what Smash Bros. ought to fundamentally be, I should rightfully be mindful about the series fundamental roots. Before Smash Bros. was even titled, before it had a cross-over theme, it was essentially an inventive fighting game with generic characters. Sakurai petitioned Iwata for permission to glaze his project over with venerated Nintendo characters in hopes of garnering wider exposure, thinking that a (totally awesome and) unique ring out mechanic wouldn't be enough to push sales. Flash forward to the Game Cube's release, and the second installment of this cross over fighter was now Nintendo's best hope to sell their new console. If Sakurai's relationship with Iwata was a romantic one, he had just climbed on top. Smash Bros., the highest selling Game Cube title of all time, became the greatest cross-over in all of gaming!

Beneath the sheen of Mario fighting Link on Brinstar, however, was Sakurai's amazing fighting engine. Melee's mechanical integrity is evinced by it's still thriving competitive scene. I maintain that Smash Bros. could be a phenomenal game without various intellectual properties bolstering its style. At the heart of Smash Bros'. success is Sakurai's own creativity. I take it this means that Nintendo's all-star's, if massively important to the series, aren't necessarily it's life.

Now that we're awaiting the fourth Smash Bros. game, and since few cuts have been made along the way (i.e. reintroducing Mewtwo would be pretty hype by now), riveting Nintendo newcomers are increasingly harder to come by. Yes, time has passed between now and Brawl, but Nintendo has regrettably neglected to make many new IPs. Wii Fit Trainer's inclusion embodies this conundrum. She's a funny choice, and well designed like all of Sakurai's adaptations, but she's mainly an avatar in a fitness game. To me, she's as much of a Nintendo all-star as the Smash Bros. announcer himself. Nintendo's great IP drought stretches a long way back. I remember Sakurai stressing how difficult it was selecting new IPs for Brawl. Olimar was thus the only 21st century creation to be playable in Brawl. There is no shortage of interesting candidates if you look beyond Nintendo's gold seal of approval, though.

At E3 2006, Sakurai expressed a willingness to break tradition when he unveiled Snake as Smash Bros'. first third party newcomer. If ostensibly just a favour for a friend - Kojima and Sakurai probably have the most interesting conversations - Snake's inclusion nevertheless actively paved the way for Sonic, and seven years later, for Mega Man and Pac Man. These characters have since generated tons of hype. If you want a laugh, go watch some reaction videos on Youtube. Mega Man's Smash 4 trailer reactions are my personal favourites.

If we recognize that the pulse of Smash Bros. isn't in its characters' backgrounds, we should be content if the next installment has fantastic game play even without Mario fronting the roster. However, if we also acknowledge that gaming's icons add a ton of excitement to Smash Bros., we should want its character roster to be filled with the greatest selection of fighters possible. In the grand scheme of fandom, Cloud Strife (or Terra, or Cecil) is more popular than Chrom, and would probably make for a more exciting addition. Hopefully, Nintendo will catch the appeal of this attitude and knock on more company doors by Smash 5.

At the risk of sounding like a paranoid consumer, I want to add to this wall of text a caution that Nintendo readily tries to milk its customers: Pokemon games, and now Smash games, come in multiple versions; Roy was a flaming advertisement; Nintendo characters only show up on their proprietary devices; the virtual console to an extent; and so on. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that Nintendo's characters live in a happy little house together.

To close off this post, I'll add another unpopular opinion. I think non-gaming characters should make it into Smash Bros.. If cultural appeal is a virtue in this series, I don't see why popular characters like Goku or Mickey Mouse don't belong. Mario, gaming's front man, vs Mickey, animation's God-cell, would be entirely coherent within the context of Smash Bros.
 

Oracle_Summon

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I'm very happy with how Smash Bros. has united my favourite gaming icons over the last fifteen years. I grew up with Mario, Link, and Pikachu, so I'm thrilled that they're all a part of my favourite fighting game series. I also have fond memories of Punch Out, Fire Emblem, and Pikmin, so I'm happy that Smash Bros. shines its spotlight on the legendary and the obscure. But, I haven't just played first party Nintendo games. I grew up with Final Fantasy, Halo, and Sonic as well. Why shouldn't more third party characters, beyond Sonic and a small handful of others, make it into Smash Bros.?
Because that would gradually reduce the importance and significance of said Third Party characters. If so many can get in then why is it important?

In the case of Master Chief, I understand that he's tonally unfitting and most importantly a proprietary icon for a competing company. He rightfully doesn't belong in Smash Bros. However, Square Enix and Nintendo are on good terms, so its a shame Final Fantasy's storied history is ignored in order to abide by an intro screen slogan - I don't see why Smash Bros. should just be "Nintendo's all-stars."
I believe it has more to do with Square Enix working mainly with Xbox One and PS4 and shunning Nintendo. Like they are doing with Kingdom Hearts 3 and Final Fantasy 15.

What is the problem with leaving it unchanged? There is no real incentive to do so and changing it will only hinder the overall appeal of the game and its major fanbase. I mean, just look at Playstation All Stars Battle Royale and notice the reaction of Sony fans and how disgusted they are with the over abundance of 3rd party characters. Here is a link: http://community.us.playstation.com...-be-too-many-third-party/td-p/37497149/page/5

Quote from Schobeleth: "I can see that, he does move and fight well and I think he's a great addition, I just don't want the roster to have a significant third party portion, and most especially third party characters that just don't make sense. I mean, look at Sonic in SSBB. Snake also was kind of silly but they're both exceptions. My main gripe with Big Daddy is that he doesn't scream Playstation, no one I know thinks of Playstation when they think of Bioshock or a Big Daddy.

Tekken was always the Playstation fighter, so Heihachi makes sense even though he's third party. Coming from this, Old Snake, Solid Snake or even Big Boss would make sense because all the games originally appeared on Playstation, Old Snake most especially being in MGS4 which is still exclusive."

See the bolded part? Unless a Third Party screams Nintendo (or Nintendo's current Console name at the time), then they really don't fit in the game.

If the crux of my quarrel should rest on what Smash Bros. ought to fundamentally be, I should rightfully be mindful about the series fundamental roots. Before Smash Bros. was even titled, before it had a cross-over theme, it was essentially an inventive fighting game with generic characters. Sakurai petitioned Iwata for permission to glaze his project over with venerated Nintendo characters in hopes of garnering wider exposure, thinking that a (totally awesome and) unique ring out mechanic wouldn't be enough to push sales. Flash forward to the Game Cube's release, and the second installment of this cross over fighter was now Nintendo's best hope to sell their new console. If Sakurai's relationship with Iwata was a romantic one, he had just climbed on top. Smash Bros., the highest selling Game Cube title of all time, became the greatest cross-over in all of gaming!
And Super Smash Brothers is now a game featuring Nintendo's All Stars in a battle royale.

Beneath the sheen of Mario fighting Link on Brinstar, however, was Sakurai's amazing fighting engine. Melee's mechanical integrity is evinced by it's still thriving competitive scene. I maintain that Smash Bros. could be a phenomenal game without various intellectual properties bolstering its style. At the heart of Smash Bros'. success is Sakurai's own creativity. I take it this means that Nintendo's all-star's, if massively important to the series, aren't necessarily it's life.
Still, there is no reason to get rid of the way things are in Super Smash Brothers. There is no real incentive for Nintendo to change anything, because nothing needs to be changed.

Now that we're awaiting the fourth Smash Bros. game, and since few cuts have been made along the way (i.e. reintroducing Mewtwo would be pretty hype by now), riveting Nintendo newcomers are increasingly harder to come by. Yes, time has passed between now and Brawl, but Nintendo has regrettably neglected to make many new IPs. Wii Fit Trainer's inclusion embodies this conundrum. She's a funny choice, and well designed like all of Sakurai's adaptations, but she's mainly an avatar in a fitness game. To me, she's as much of a Nintendo all-star as the Smash Bros. announcer himself. Nintendo's great IP drought stretches a long way back. I remember Sakurai stressing how difficult it was selecting new IPs for Brawl. Olimar was thus the only 21st century creation to be playable in Brawl. There is no shortage of interesting candidates if you look beyond Nintendo's gold seal of approval, though.
.....here is link that shows a long list of Nintendo IPs that Nintendo has created since 2000:

http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/50-new-nintendo-ips-since-year-2000.206143097/

It goes into the nit and gritty of all the IPs and their standing.

At E3 2006, Sakurai expressed a willingness to break tradition when he unveiled Snake as Smash Bros'. first third party newcomer. If ostensibly just a favour for a friend - Kojima and Sakurai probably have the most interesting conversations - Snake's inclusion nevertheless actively paved the way for Sonic, and seven years later, for Mega Man and Pac Man. These characters have since generated tons of hype. If you want a laugh, go watch some reaction videos on Youtube. Mega Man's Smash 4 trailer reactions are my personal favourites.
Yes, but the main reason these characters were added was because they had a good history with Nintendo, maybe except Pacman since he was put in the game since Namco helped make the game.

If we recognize that the pulse of Smash Bros. isn't in its characters' backgrounds, we should be content if the next installment has fantastic game play even without Mario fronting the roster. However, if we also acknowledge that gaming's icons add a ton of excitement to Smash Bros., we should want its character roster to be filled with the greatest selection of fighters possible. In the grand scheme of fandom, Cloud Strife (or Terra, or Cecil) is more popular than Chrom, and would probably make for a more exciting addition. Hopefully, Nintendo will catch the appeal of this attitude and knock on more company doors by Smash 5.
Smash Brothers is about Nintendo's All Stars with important characters to Nintendo's history and those who have helped Nintendo. People like Sonic, Snake, Pacman, and Megaman.

Super Smash Brothers is not a mash up of characters from differing companies, but Nintendo's History and All Stars. If a character has strong ties to Nintendo and/or has helped them then they have a chance to get in.

Super Smash Brothers is not a game dedicated to gaming's greatest icons, but those gaming icons happen to be Nintendo's creations.

If Mario does not get in the game then it is a big deal since Mario is Nintendo's Mascot and Flagship series.

Hopefully, Nintendo won't do this since it will pretty much kill the mass appeal that made Super Smash Brothers the game it is today.

At the risk of sounding like a paranoid consumer, I want to add to this wall of text a caution that Nintendo readily tries to milk its customers: Pokemon games, and now Smash games, come in multiple versions; Roy was a flaming advertisement; Nintendo characters only show up on their proprietary devices; the virtual console to an extent; and so on. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that Nintendo's characters live in a happy little house together.
And? What company doesn't try to milk its customers? Some characters in Super Smash Brothers are used to market up coming games and serve as advertisements.

But you also have to take into account the term "milking" in this regard. Nintendo may be reusing their Titles time and time again, but they are not consistently making small or minor changes to game and expect people to pay full price for a broken product like other companies.

To close off this post, I'll add another unpopular opinion. I think non-gaming characters should make it into Smash Bros.. If cultural appeal is a virtue in this series, I don't see why popular characters like Goku or Mickey Mouse don't belong. Mario, gaming's front man, vs Mickey, animation's God-cell, would be entirely coherent within the context of Smash Bros.
Oh please, if any non-gaming character belongs in Super Smash Brothers it is Ronald McDonald. Come on, the biggest Fast Food Icon vs. the biggest Gaming Icon? That is a fight people would pay money to see. :smirk:
 
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Mr.Seven

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To close off this post, I'll add another unpopular opinion. I think non-gaming characters should make it into Smash Bros.
I agree with this statement, but only to a certain extent. Non-gaming characters who are relevant to Nintendo should have a shot at making it in. There's one that would be an awesome addition to the Smash Cast: Captain N.
 

Oracle_Summon

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I agree with this statement, but only to a certain extent. Non-gaming characters who are relevant to Nintendo should have a shot at making it in. There's one that would be an awesome addition to the Smash Cast: Captain N.
I approve of Captain N's inclusion. He makes the most sense and would fit perfectly, though I don't know if he would ham things up too much in Super Smash brothers...
 
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Vann Accessible

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Nongaming characters relevant to Nintendo?

What about Popeye? Nintendo wanted to use Popeye as their mascot, and Shigeru Miyamoto made a Popeye game.

I even hear Sakuari wanted to put him in Smash 64.

Final Smash = Spinach Flurry!
 
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Nongaming characters relevant to Nintendo?

What about Popeye? Nintendo wanted to use Popeye as their mascot, and Shigeru Miyamoto made a Popeye game.

I even hear Sakuari wanted to put him in Smash 64.

Final Smash = Spinach Flurry!
Can't wait to release J. Wellington Wimpy from an Assist Trophy. Hamburger tidal wave?
 

Rhubarbo

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Sorry in advance for the awkward response format. I don't know how to snip quotes that well.

Oracle_Summon: "Because that would gradually reduce the importance and significance of said Third Party characters. If so many can get in then why is it important?"

To that I say: Why should being a third party character be special? Right now, third party characters stand out because they're squared against a backdrop of Captain Falcons and Nesses. The overall quality of the game won't go down if a larger part of the roster is enthralling.

Oracle_Summon: "I believe it has more to do with Square Enix working mainly with Xbox One and PS4 and shunning Nintendo. Like they are doing with Kingdom Hearts 3 and Final Fantasy 15."

To that I say: I wouldn't say Square Enix has shunned Nintendo. Over the past two generations, a bunch of Square Enix remakes were done on Nintendo handhelds. Kingdom Hearts and Dragon Quest even had original titles on Nintendo devices. If Square Enix isn't making AAA games on Nintendo consoles anymore, it's probably because its too difficult to port premier tech onto Nintendo's weaker devices.

Oracle_Summon: "And Super Smash Brothers is now a game featuring Nintendo's All Stars in a battle royale."

To that I say: This is a malleable premise. It's not necessarily the best design decision, and it hasn't been true since Snake was announced.

Oracle_Summon: "Still, there is no reason to get rid of the way things are in Super Smash Brothers. There is no real incentive for Nintendo to change anything, because nothing needs to be changed."

To that I say: Smash Bros. has a solid identity, but the point of each sequel is growth. If the virtue of growth isn't compelling enough, incentive should come from sales. Series flounder when franchises stagnate since consumers won't repeatedly fall for moneygrabbing. Look at CoD, it's sales have been declining since Black Ops.

Incorporating third party characters is a straightforward option for Smash Bros. to expand its appeal.

Oracle_Summon: ".....here is link that shows a long list of Nintendo IPs that Nintendo has created 2000..."

To that I say: A lot of those IPs are spin offs, difficult to adapt, or unpopular. I would't exactly classify the Mario and DK games as a new IP; Elite Beat Agents are cool, but difficult to implement; I would love Isaac and Andy, but I would be puzzled by Chibi-Robo; everyone can get behind an inclusion like Mega Man, though.

Oracle_Summon: "Yes, but the main reason these characters were added was because they had a good history with Nintendo, maybe except Pacman since he was put in the game since Namco helped make the game."

To that I say: Snake's and Sonic's history with Nintendo aren't exactly prime. Snake appears in more Play Station games than Nintendo games; Sonic was Mario's industry rival until they cozied up after Adventure 2 Battle. Even so, there are plenty of third party characters in the same ranks as Mega Man that could spice up the roster, if you want to be conservative.

Oracle_Summon: "If Mario does not get in the game then it is a big deal since Mario is Nintendo's Mascot and Flagship series.

Hopefully, Nintendo won't do this since it will pretty much kill the mass appeal that made Super Smash Brothers the game it is today."


To that I say: My main point in this argument is that Smash Bros. fundamentally doesn't depend on any one character's specific background. Instead, it uses those characters to generate hype - Of course Mario Should be in every Smash game! What I mean to show through this subversion is that its a character's excitability that matters to Smash, not which company they belong too. To the general audience, Robin might as well be a generic, made-for-Smash character, whereas someone like Sora would be equally interesting and more exciting. In the first Smash game, Sakurai had to stick to in-house characters for practical, ownership reasons. Now that Smash is big enough, it can grow its character scope.

Oracle_Summon: "And? What company doesn't try to milk its customers? Some characters in Super Smash Brothers are used to market up coming games and serve as advertisements.

But you also have to take into account the term "milking" in this regard. Nintendo may be reusing their Titles time and time again, but they are not consistently making small or minor changes to game and expect people to pay full price for a broken product like other companies."


To that I say: Companies and profit go hand in hand, so I'm not really grieving here, despite how tricky three versions of one Pokemon game may be. My point is that we fans shouldn't give excessive assent to Nintendo's properties.

Oracle_Summon: "Oh please, if any non-gaming character belongs in Super Smash Brothers it is Ronald McDonald. Come on, the biggest Fast Food Icon vs. the biggest Gaming Icon? That is a fight people would pay money to see. :smirk:"

To that I say: I'm like 50% serious about non-gaming characters getting in! Even though Goku's an anime character, he aesthetically jives with the likes of Captain Falcon and Sonic. The Budokai Dragonball games also sold really well, if I remember correctly. Mickey is an animation legend! Tying Mario and Mickey together: The gaming industry owes its history to the cartoon industry. Mario's existence can be attributed to Steam Boat Willie. Also, Mickey appears in Kingdom Hearts games, yeah...

I'm more partial to the Hamburgler, by the way.
 

Oracle_Summon

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To that I say: Why should being a third party character be special? Right now, third party characters stand out because they're squared against a backdrop of Captain Falcons and Nesses. The overall quality of the game won't go down if a larger part of the roster is enthralling.
The game would lose its core value of being a celebration of Nintendo's History thus defeating the purpose of the game's intentional creation.

To that I say: I wouldn't say Square Enix has shunned Nintendo. Over the past two generations, a bunch of Square Enix remakes were done on Nintendo handhelds. Kingdom Hearts and Dragon Quest even had original titles on Nintendo devices. If Square Enix isn't making AAA games on Nintendo consoles anymore, it's probably because its too difficult to port premier tech onto Nintendo's weaker devices.
Handhelds are not the same as consoles. Still, they should have taken the time to look up the schematics of the system and put it there. Nintendo should not try to advertise a company that is not trying to support their console.

To that I say: This is a malleable premise. It's not necessarily the best design decision, and it hasn't been true since Snake was announced.
Actually it still is, because Snake was allowed in the games because of his history with Nintendo and Sakurai is good friends with Snake's creator. It did not change the fact that Super Smash Brothers focused on Nintendo All Stars, but added that guests can make appearances.

To that I say: Smash Bros. has a solid identity, but the point of each sequel is growth. If the virtue of growth isn't compelling enough, incentive should come from sales. Series flounder when franchises stagnate since consumers won't repeatedly fall for moneygrabbing. Look at CoD, it's sales have been declining since Black Ops.
You must recall that CoD's sales have no correlation to how Nintendo handles things. CoD is the same exact game re-skinned with a few Maps sold for $60 each time for a "new" version.

Nintendo is not handling the Super Smash Brothers series like the CoD duty series. And the sales are effected by the Console they are on.

Incorporating third party characters is a straightforward option for Smash Bros. to expand its appeal.
This will only advertise Third Party companies and increase their sales. They will over shadow Nintendo's characters when they become over abundant and would fracture the fan base of Smash Brothers.

To that I say: A lot of those IPs are spin offs, difficult to adapt, or unpopular. I would't exactly classify the Mario and DK games as a new IP; Elite Beat Agents are cool, but difficult to implement; I would love Isaac and Andy, but I would be puzzled by Chibi-Robo; everyone can get behind an inclusion like Mega Man, though.
Whether these IPs are popular or not does not change the fact that Nintendo made new IPs. You may be puzzled by inclusions such as Chibi-Robo, but he would fit among Nintendo's family nicely.

Megaman is acceptable, because he is practically a Nintendo character who lived the majority of his life on Nintendo consoles and started his career on Nintendo console.

To that I say: Snake's and Sonic's history with Nintendo aren't exactly prime. Snake appears in more Play Station games than Nintendo games; Sonic was Mario's industry rival until they cozied up after Adventure 2 Battle. Even so, there are plenty of third party characters in the same ranks as Mega Man that could spice up the roster, if you want to be conservative.
Sonic was included because of Fan Demand, has been on Nintendo's consoles, and has a rich history with Nintendo.

Snake was included because Sakurai is friends with Konima (don't know if I got the name right or not).

For the sake of being Conservative Third Party characters should never exceed 4 characters.

To that I say: My main point in this argument is that Smash Bros. fundamentally doesn't depend on any one character's specific background. Instead, it uses those characters to generate hype - Of course Mario Should be in every Smash game! What I mean to show through this subversion is that its a character's excitability that matters to Smash, not which company they belong too. To the general audience, Robin might as well be a generic, made-for-Smash character, whereas someone like Sora would be equally interesting and more exciting. In the first Smash game, Sakurai had to stick to in-house characters for practical, ownership reasons. Now that Smash is big enough, it can grow its character scope.
Super Smash Brothers is also a series to help get gamers and people associated with not well known Nintendo characters. Sakurai stuck with Nintendo in-house characters mainly because Super Smash Brothers is a Nintendo All Star Game. Snake was going to be added in the game because Sakurai is good friends with Konima and Konima asked him to do so.

Super Smash Brothers is not a game that focuses solely on adding well known video game characters, but those who have important ties with Nintendo and has helped Nintendo.

To that I say: Companies and profit go hand in hand, so I'm not really grieving here, despite how tricky three versions of one Pokemon game may be. My point is that we fans shouldn't give excessive assent to Nintendo's properties.
Nintendo's Franchises are usually given assent regularly because of how Nintendo handles them and does not try to screw their costumers over, unless you count Region Locking.

To that I say: I'm like 50% serious about non-gaming characters getting in! Even though Goku's an anime character, he aesthetically jives with the likes of Captain Falcon and Sonic. The Budokai Dragonball games also sold really well, if I remember correctly. Mickey is an animation legend! Tying Mario and Mickey together: The gaming industry owes its history to the cartoon industry. Mario's existence can be attributed to Steam Boat Willie. Also, Mickey appears in Kingdom Hearts games, yeah...
You have yet to prove why the likes of Goku deserves to put in Super Smash Brothers over characters like Ronald McDonald and Mickey Mouse.

Though about you being 50% serious, this would cause a bigger tear in the Super Smash Brothers fanbase because Super Smash Brothers would solely be used as a way for advertising, destroying its original purpose.

Anybody could get in willie nillie and it would serve Nintendo no purpose.

I'm more partial to the Hamburgler, by the way.
Hah, good luck getting him in over Ronald McDonald.
 
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StupendousMike

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To close off this post, I'll add another unpopular opinion. I think non-gaming characters should make it into Smash Bros.. If cultural appeal is a virtue in this series, I don't see why popular characters like Goku or Mickey Mouse don't belong. Mario, gaming's front man, vs Mickey, animation's God-cell, would be entirely coherent within the context of Smash Bros.
Well, Dr. Kawashima is a real guy, and now he's also an assist trophy... so you kind of got your wish!
 

Radayam

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-I wouldn't mind at all if Falco and Wolf were both cut and Fox was the only Star Fox rep.
-I'm not sure I like how much Bowser has improved, as I'm worried that every other person will main him. However, I won't care about this if he does not have Dry Bowser as an alt, as I will only consider maining him if he does.
-I like Megaman's inclusion, but I wish his moveset didn't borrow so heavily from 2 and 3. For instance, I would prefer his up smash to be Pharaoh Shot from 4 instead up Sparkman's attack(can't remember the name offhand).
-I would prefer Eggplant Wizard over either of the Kid Icarus assist trophies.
-I don't like how the Pac-Man ghosts are an assist trophy, as they already appear in the Pac-Maze stage and some of Pac-Man's attacks and taunts.
-I don't care much for the Daybreak, as it seems redundant next to the Dragoon. It would work better as Pit or Palutena's Final Smash.
 

Crome

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The 3DS smash shouldn't have been made. Sakurai should've just focused on the wii U version. Time and money spent on making the 3ds version could've been used to make the Wii U version better. (I'm still getting the 3ds version though)
I agree - But I'm just explaining why. (Again, not disagreeing. Just informing you) Right now handhelds are really big in japan. The vita is the best selling console in japan, then the 3DS. It's a good marketing move, but it sucks that the wii u version suffers (rip ice climbers) because of the handheld port.
 
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BKupa666

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Here's an unpopular reality for you schadenfreude enthusiasts: anyone who trolls the fanbases of disconfirmed characters a week from now will get warned and/or infracted. (technically, anyone who trolls them at all will get warned/infracted, but I'll be keeping an extra close eye out for violators moving forward)
 

Sykkamorre

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Here's an unpopular reality for you schadenfreude enthusiasts: anyone who trolls the fanbases of disconfirmed characters a week from now will get warned and/or infracted. (technically, anyone who trolls them at all will get warned/infracted, but I'll be keeping an extra close eye out for violators moving forward)
I approve of this.
 

War Anvil

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  • DLC is up in the air as of this moment - and as of many moments to come.
  • I'll be shocked if there's no Mewtwo, but even more so if Dr. Mario was just added by random chance in the hopes of throwing leakers off.
  • Dark Pit is going to be a pseudo-clone at worst. Don't be such a worrywart, guys! (Personally, I'd be excited either way. Preferably not a clone, though. #YouShouldBelieveInPittoo)
  • If guest characters are going to be a constant in Smash, the most realistic pick for a recurring guest would be Sonic. Because I dunno, CONSOLE WARS?! (Rim shot intensifies) At the same time, though, it would be interesting to see yonder developer (Including Sakurai, if this isn't his swan song) settle with an entirely new set of guests. (Indie characters? Iunno.)
 

D-idara

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Here's an unpopular reality for you schadenfreude enthusiasts: anyone who trolls the fanbases of disconfirmed characters a week from now will get warned and/or infracted. (technically, anyone who trolls them at all will get warned/infracted, but I'll be keeping an extra close eye out for violators moving forward)
I approve, and won't there be any warnings for the usual 'tear-drinkers' who for some reason think they're funny?
 

guedes the brawler

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i still hold that Chrom would be a better choice of FE newcomers than what we got. He probably would be a character that would proportionate more fun than Robin or Lucina would, and better Rep the series due to being it's actual protagonist

i also say that Rosalina should've never been playable before both Toad and Bowser Jr. Jr got in, but eh.
 

YoshiandToad

Smash Hero
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Here's an unpopular reality for you schadenfreude enthusiasts: anyone who trolls the fanbases of disconfirmed characters a week from now will get warned and/or infracted. (technically, anyone who trolls them at all will get warned/infracted, but I'll be keeping an extra close eye out for violators moving forward)
Should of been a thing from the beginning of speculation honestly. Something to consider for Smash 5's speculation perhaps.
  • Upon further thought, I'm actually disappointed there aren't MORE Koopaling/Alph situations. If the announcer changes the name, the model and voice is altered, etc, this would of been a great way to pack more individual clone characters into Smash with far less effort.

  • That said I'm not overly convinced Lucina should be a separate slot character from Marth when Alph's not his own thing. Sakurai's flimsy justification seems to be able to apply just as well to her as it should to Alph and the Koopalings.
 

MasterOfKnees

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  • That said I'm not overly convinced Lucina should be a separate slot character from Marth when Alph's not his own thing. Sakurai's flimsy justification seems to be able to apply just as well to her as it should to Alph and the Koopalings.
It was probably just a matter of how many of the costumes they could cram in as seperate playable characters, at some point they reached the deadline and had to leave Alph behind. I fully understand the Koopalings personally, giving any of them priority over the others would seem really weird, none of them are really more important than each other, so it's most natural for them to remain as costumes.
 
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ParanoidDrone

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Possibly unpopular opinion: Although the line between clone and not-clone can be rather blurry at times, I'd honestly prefer if they were cut completely. I say this knowing that clone characters are created because their similarities make them easier to implemented, so they don't necessarily take resources and attention away from "full" characters.

If I were in charge, I'd cut Toon Link, Lucina, Dr. Mario, and Pit and just leave them as alternate outfits where possible. Ganondorf would also get an overhaul from the ground up.
 

Mr.Seven

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Really Unpopular Opinion:

I hate Project M. In my eyes, it shredded Brawl's identity and turned it into "Melee 2." To me, it wasn't "Brawl Re-balancing" like it said it was. It was "Take Everything You Liked About Brawl and Throw it Out the Window!"
 

EdgeTheLucas

Smash Lord
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Really Unpopular Opinion:

I hate Project M. In my eyes, it shredded Brawl's identity and turned it into "Melee 2." To me, it wasn't "Brawl Re-balancing" like it said it was. It was "Take Everything You Liked About Brawl and Throw it Out the Window!"
Well, this thread is for unpopular SMASH 4 opinions, not really Project M.

Not attacking your opinion but I don't think it belongs here.
 

Flaxr XIII

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Really Unpopular Opinion:

I hate Project M. In my eyes, it shredded Brawl's identity and turned it into "Melee 2." To me, it wasn't "Brawl Re-balancing" like it said it was. It was "Take Everything You Liked About Brawl and Throw it Out the Window!"
I turned it into "Mod the Crap Out of Brawl Without Trying Too Hard" :awesome:
By that I mean me not trying too hard. I'm sure the Project M team put a huge amount of effort into it, but that just makes it so that I don't have to.:awesome::awesome:
 
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