Unofficial Stage Discussion with new Counter Factor ruleset

[Greenstreet]

By the smash community and SBR.



It's really easy to avoid getting hit by the springs and fireball. Its accepted because of the stage layout, which prevents chaingrabs which makes it applicable.

I find this hilarious now that it's been proven this list has no solid foundation.

You have to be the n00biest smash master I have ever seen. Also, stay out of the Sonic Boards...

 

[CaliburChamp]

Who would accually play on 75 m in a tournament match?

Smart people who don't want to get chain grabbed.

I find this hilarious now that it's been proven this list has no solid foundation.

You have to be the n00biest smash master I have ever seen. Also, stay out of the Sonic Boards...

It does have a foundation. Me and some others. And as for you calling me the n00biest smash master you seen... you have no idea what your talking about scrub. And I will continue to post in the Sonic boards, I don't post stupid stuff in the Sonic boards anyways, it has enough worthless threads in it. Your such an idiot.

 

[Moosetracks]

I have mixed opinions about this list.... It's definitely interesting.

 

[Xiivi]

Who would accually play on 75 m in a tournament match?

Kirk.

Spoiler

Not even kidding.

 

[CaliburChamp]

Ok, people. Tell me what you don't like about this? What stages don't you like at all? It has to be an absolute hatred for the stage, not a partial hatred. Please don't mention the stages I already banned in the list.

 

[Barge]

Ok, people. Tell me what you don't like about this? What stages don't you like at all? It has to be an absolute hatred for the stage, not a partial hatred. Please don't mention the stages I already banned in the list.

Rainbow Cruise
Mario Circuit
Port Town Aero Dive
Skyworld
Bridge of Eldin
Hanenbow
Mushroomy Kingdom I
Mushroomy Kingdom II
Rumble Falls
Shadow Moses
Hyrule Temple
New Pork City
75m

All of those
Why?




Some are HUGE stages (Hyrule, New pork, bridge)
A match would take forever

Some are constinently moving stages (Mushy kingdom 1 and 2, rumble falls, rainbow cruise)
making killing incredibly easy and movement incredibly hard

Some are unkillable in (Moses) due to the walls

Some have too many hazards that completely make it a 50/50 chance on who wins.
(75M Hanenbow Skyworld, mario circuit, port town)


Conclusion: These stages make it so you can't show your full potential, they're definitely not "fun" to play on competively, and they plain suck for tournaments.

 

[Xiivi]

Heck, I'd just like to throw out there that Big Blue and Flat Zone 2 are infinitely more playable than Hyrule Temple, New Pork City, 75m, and Mushroomy Kingdom II ever will be.

If you're going to be radical, at least do it right.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

I don't think 75m is actually worse than Hanenbow actually... but both are pretty awful. I don't understand why everyone always says 75m for instant ban while turning a blind eye to Hanenbow. Both are huge, both have a bunch of small, campy platforms, and both have loops. The hazards on 75m are really not that big of a deal, and the walk-offs seem like a fair tradeoff for the stage having any flat ground at all, especially flat ground that doesn't move every time you hit it. So, in conclusion, both should really be banned, but people should stop hating on 75m for being worse than it actually is.

Yeah, Big Blue isn't even that bad of a stage; it's less unfair than it is unusual (the main reason I don't argue so much for Big Blue is that I realize everyone hates the stage too much to ever give it a shot, especially when the stage would be one of the lower end of fairness counterpicks anyway). That's a lot different from Temple or New Pork City that are 100% unplayable. I also find it funny that you ban the Summit and not New Pork City for the instant kill hazard since a competent player won't be dying to either of them very often at all. Flat Zone 2 is hardly the best level in the game, but even on the SBR list it's one of the most playable banned stages (the main problem I see is that Snake has a little too much fun camping around the flat people).

To an above argument that targets some good stages though, Mario Circuit's hazards are seriously not that big of a deal. I can see an argument centering around how the map is really heavily centered around abusing the walk-off, but the cars? They are predictable (look at the sign in the background) and, either way, don't really hit very hard. And about Rainbow Cruise, it's really trivial for the entire cast to keep up with it; it moves at a snail's pace. The whole cast is perfectly able to keep up with Rumble Falls for that matter; most people just want to ban it because you do have to actually pay attention to not dying and it reminds them too much of Icicle Mountain from melee anyway (unlike on Rainbow Cruise on which you'd have to be ridiculously bad to die to just the stage).

 

[Xiivi]

Info

Yeah, I agree. Originally I had typed Hanenbow, but decided against it because I didn't really want to put forth the effort to explain my reasoning when someone brought it up. Hanenbow is utterly worthless of a stage for the reasons you pointed out though.

 

[CaliburChamp]

Rainbow Cruise
Mario Circuit (Can't ledge camp here)
Port Town Aero Dive (Practically on the verge of a ban, but your opponent can't ledge camp here)
Skyworld (The bricks help you combo better if your opponent bounces off, and there are no stage hazards)
Bridge of Eldin (This stage has alot of room, prevents you from getting killed off early from up smashes, etc.)
Hanenbow (Prevents chain grabs, and it has no hazards. It's a good place to play on for an aerial battle.)
Mushroomy Kingdom I (Prevents camping which people will learn to like eventually)
Mushroomy Kingdom II (Prevents camping which people will learn to like eventually)
Rumble Falls (Prevents camping ROB's from getting the best of you, and every one hates campers, so most people will eventually fall in love with this stage unless their characters rely on camping.)
Shadow Moses (It's a stage that counters MK, and you can still KO people, just break the walls, simple.)
Hyrule Temple (It's a stage with no hazards. And MK won't be dominating the tournament scene with this stage into play)
New Pork City (You can easily avoid the ultimate chimera. Its a good counterpick against Snake too, its a stage we need to compensate for Snake's cheapness.)
75m (This stage doesn't have that many hazards, you can easily avoid them)

All of those
Why?

Some are HUGE stages (Hyrule, New pork, bridge)
A match would take forever

Some are constinently moving stages (Mushy kingdom 1 and 2, rumble falls, rainbow cruise)
making killing incredibly easy and movement incredibly hard

Some are unkillable in (Moses) due to the walls

Some have too many hazards that completely make it a 50/50 chance on who wins.
(75M Hanenbow Skyworld, mario circuit, port town)


Conclusion: These stages make it so you can't show your full potential, they're definitely not "fun" to play on competively, and they plain suck for tournaments.

Embrace diversity, don't ban it.
Big Blue is banned because if you fall on the road, which usually happens, you end up getting killed at low %. Low % stage kills warrant a ban.

 

[fujbubccc]

This is a ludicrous power grab. Now I am not saying the SBR is infallible, but they are certainly at least as well versed in the game as you are, Champ (and almost definitely more so). On top of that, there are more of them than you. And yet, you tried to pull a coup here. Your list is terrible, for reasons that I don't think I need to get in to here. Let the BR do what it's supposed to.

Also, your rationales for the normally banned stages being allowed are awful.

 

[CaliburChamp]

This is a ludicrous power grab. Now I am not saying the SBR is infallible, but they are certainly at least as well versed in the game as you are, Champ (and almost definitely more so). On top of that, there are more of them than you. And yet, you tried to pull a coup here. Your list is terrible, for reasons that I don't think I need to get in to here. Let the BR do what it's supposed to.

Also, your rationales for the normally banned stages being allowed are awful.

I'm 100% positive that the people who agree with me on this aren't posting for fear of being flamed, like I am. Change is for the better. Negative people like you isn't what makes this world a better place.

 

[fujbubccc]

"Skyworld (The bricks help you combo better if your opponent bounces off, and there are no stage hazards)"

Seriously? This stage is arbitrary gimp heaven, as well as arbitrary save heaven (with the platform on the bottom). This level has NO place in a competitive environment. Also, you seem to have no fear of walk off edges. I can only infer that you like eating 0-death chain grabs? Or even just getting B-Thrown at low percents off of the walk off?

Why is change necessarily for the better?

 

[Barge]

Embrace diversity, don't ban it.
Big Blue is banned because if you fall on the road, which usually happens, you end up getting killed at low %. Low % stage kills warrant a ban.

.....Since when does "prevent campyness" make up for the incredibly unskilled, incredible slow, or fast (moving stages) matches. And the hazards that rack up a lot of damage?

 

[Jigglymaster]

New Pork City isn't banned because of the Ultimate Chimera. Its because its so **** big players can run away the whole match.

 

[themrskills]

I can live with every stage except for Mushroomy Kingdom 1 and 2. The side scrolling action is just too much, and the ceiling is way too low on the underground part. Hanenbow is annoying with the sounds the stage makes, and 75m makes me mad when the boucy thing knocks me into the monkey and I die.

 

[M15t3R E]

=o

Uhhh, CaliburChamp? This is in response to your disagreement with Barge's opinions.
The stages are those he disputed and your response to his stage disputes are in green. My response to your response is below that in blue.

Rainbow Cruise
Mario Circuit (Can't ledge camp here)
Port Town Aero Dive (Practically on the verge of a ban, but your opponent can't ledge camp here)
Skyworld (The bricks help you combo better if your opponent bounces off, and there are no stage hazards)
Bridge of Eldin (This stage has alot of room, prevents you from getting killed off early from up smashes, etc.)
Hanenbow (Prevents chain grabs, and it has no hazards. It's a good place to play on for an aerial battle.)
Mushroomy Kingdom I (Prevents camping which people will learn to like eventually)
Mushroomy Kingdom II (Prevents camping which people will learn to like eventually)
Rumble Falls (Prevents camping ROB's from getting the best of you, and every one hates campers, so most people will eventually fall in love with this stage unless their characters rely on camping.)
Shadow Moses (It's a stage that counters MK, and you can still KO people, just break the walls, simple.)
Hyrule Temple (It's a stage with no hazards. And MK won't be dominating the tournament scene with this stage into play)
New Pork City (You can easily avoid the ultimate chimera. Its a good counterpick against Snake too, its a stage we need to compensate for Snake's cheapness.)
75m (This stage doesn't have that many hazards, you can easily avoid them)


Rainbow Cruise: You skipped this one in replying to Barge. But here's all you need to know. There is NO F'n WAY TO SHOW ANYWHERE NEAR YOUR TRUE SKILL ON THIS STAGE!

Mario Circuit: I've been camped by a Samus on Mario Circuit who stood underneath the racetrack whenever he could. Then, when the cars came on the bottom, he ledgecamped on top of the racetrack...

Port Town Aero Drive: Freakin hazards. 'Nuff said.

Skyworld: This stage has no hazards? What about destructible ground? That has screwed me over before, believe me.

Bridge of Eldin: I'm going to agree with you on this one. The stage hazard is so minor and presents no danger to even decent players so maybe it should be neutral. After all, without the hazard it's pretty much FD.

Hanenbow: What about players who advance their ground game and characters with little air priority? They'll see Hanenbow chosen and go "Oh F***!"

Mushroomy Kingdom I + II: The obstacles get in the way of showing your true skill. Again, 'Nuff said.

Rumble Falls: (Same as above)

Shadow Moses Island: The left and right blastzones are covered by walls unless you take the time to destroy them (time which you may never get). You may, however, get a hit or two on the walls here and there. But that's a distraction. So, that's stupid.

Hyrule Temple: Blastzones and ceiling is waayyy too high and it's good for campers.

New Pork City: (Same as above)

75m: This stage DOES have deadly hazards that you can be forced into by your opponent. Plus, it encourages aerial combat which favors certain characters over others.

Yeah, out of these Bridge of Eldin is fine with me.
But this doesn't mention all of the stages you want to include. Out of your entire list, located on the first page, I'd only agree to add Bridge of Eldin, Castle Siege, and Delfino to the new rule set.

 

[CaliburChamp]

There's no please in alot of people. And I know this isn't going to please everyone, nothing is. But its going to happen sooner or later. I'm really confident about this.

 

[Barge]

Uhhh, CaliburChamp? This is in response to your disagreement with Barge's opinions.
The stages are those he disputed and your response to his stage disputes are in green. My response to your response is below that in blue.

Rainbow Cruise
Mario Circuit (Can't ledge camp here)
Port Town Aero Dive (Practically on the verge of a ban, but your opponent can't ledge camp here)
Skyworld (The bricks help you combo better if your opponent bounces off, and there are no stage hazards)
Bridge of Eldin (This stage has alot of room, prevents you from getting killed off early from up smashes, etc.)
Hanenbow (Prevents chain grabs, and it has no hazards. It's a good place to play on for an aerial battle.)
Mushroomy Kingdom I (Prevents camping which people will learn to like eventually)
Mushroomy Kingdom II (Prevents camping which people will learn to like eventually)
Rumble Falls (Prevents camping ROB's from getting the best of you, and every one hates campers, so most people will eventually fall in love with this stage unless their characters rely on camping.)
Shadow Moses (It's a stage that counters MK, and you can still KO people, just break the walls, simple.)
Hyrule Temple (It's a stage with no hazards. And MK won't be dominating the tournament scene with this stage into play)
New Pork City (You can easily avoid the ultimate chimera. Its a good counterpick against Snake too, its a stage we need to compensate for Snake's cheapness.)
75m (This stage doesn't have that many hazards, you can easily avoid them)


Rainbow Cruise: You skipped this one in replying to Barge. But here's all you need to know. There is NO F'n WAY TO SHOW ANYWHERE NEAR YOUR TRUE SKILL ON THIS STAGE!

Mario Circuit: I've been camped by a Samus on Mario Circuit who stood underneath the racetrack whenever he could. Then, when the cars came on the bottom, he ledgecamped on top of the racetrack...

Port Town Aero Drive: Freakin hazards. 'Nuff said.

Skyworld: This stage has no hazards? What about destructible ground? That has screwed me over before, believe me.

Bridge of Eldin: I'm going to agree with you on this one. The stage hazard is so minor and presents no danger to even decent players so maybe it should be neutral. After all, without the hazard it's pretty much FD.

Hanenbow: What about players who advance their ground game and characters with little air priority? They'll see Hanenbow chosen and go "Oh F***!"

Mushroomy Kingdom I + II: The obstacles get in the way of showing your true skill. Again, 'Nuff said.

Rumble Falls: (Same as above)

Shadow Moses Island: The left and right blastzones are covered by walls unless you take the time to destroy them (time which you may never get). You may, however, get a hit or two on the walls here and there. But that's a distraction. So, that's stupid.

Hyrule Temple: Blastzones and ceiling is waayyy too high and it's good for campers.

New Pork City: (Same as above)

75m: This stage DOES have deadly hazards that you can be forced into by your opponent. Plus, it encourages aerial combat which favors certain characters over others.

Yeah, out of these Bridge of Eldin is fine with me.
But this doesn't mention all of the stages you want to include. Out of your entire list, located on the first page, I'd only agree to add Bridge of Eldin, Castle Siege, and Delfino to the new rule set.

I just said bridge of eldin because I hate it, why? Its immense side camping to ez 0-death throws D:

 

[ssbbFICTION]

LOL this is the best thread ever.

1. Rainbow cruise is ALREADY a counterpick, and was even debated as a neutral by some people awhile ago.
2. As much as Caliberchamp wants this, its never going to happen. No one wants it besides him and a few casuals.

When creating the original ban set, the same rules that always go into banning stages were used, so no we are not wrong. Theres a difference between being radical and being right. Go and away and all of you stop feeding the troll. (as much fun as it is to watch.)

 

[cjrocker]

There's no please in alot of people. And I know this isn't going to please everyone, nothing is. But its going to happen sooner or later. I'm really confident about this.

I'm really confident it's never going to happen.

 

[ssbbFICTION]

There's no please in alot of people. And I know this isn't going to please everyone, nothing is. But its going to happen sooner or later. I'm really confident about this.

You realize that all it does is please you and your little band of poser friends, right? Not a single person on these competitve boards has completely (a few agree with a few stages) agreed with your statement. Let me try to explain your own mind in a few words (shouldnt take many)

_______
I am a man named Bob. I will become king of the world one day. Everyone laughs at me, but my mom says I could do it. I know it won't please all of you, but I know that you all secretly agree with me. No means yes, right? I have created my entire vision of my new world order on a single sheet of paper. I have written all your future directions on this sheet of paper. You will now obey me because I am king of the world. Don't like it? Too bad. I am really confident that you will all obey me because this has been coming for a long time, and even if you don't accept it now, you will eventually. Why? Surely not because any others tell you do. You do it because I'm king of the world.

____________

Do you see any error in that?

 

[CaliburChamp]

You realize that all it does is please you and your little band of poser friends, right? Not a single person on these competitve boards has completely (a few agree with a few stages) agreed with your statement. Let me try to explain your own mind in a few words (shouldnt take many)

_______
I am a man named Bob. I will become king of the world one day. Everyone laughs at me, but my mom says I could do it. I know it won't please all of you, but I know that you all secretly agree with me. No means yes, right? I have created my entire vision of my new world order on a single sheet of paper. I have written all your future directions on this sheet of paper. You will now obey me because I am king of the world. Don't like it? Too bad. I am really confident that you will all obey me because this has been coming for a long time, and even if you don't accept it now, you will eventually. Why? Surely not because any others tell you do. You do it because I'm king of the world.

____________

Do you see any error in that?

All I have to say is... let your conscious be your guide. Your conscious is telling you that, not me.

 

[Greenstreet]

I'm 100% positive that the people who agree with me on this aren't posting for fear of being flamed, like I am. Change is for the better. Negative people like you isn't what makes this world a better place.

What world? The smash world? It's a video game. Play the stages you like lol. Most tourneys are going to run on SBR Stage lists though, so this thread is pointless.

Also: ssbbfiction raises a valid point. This list is as feasable as if I conjured up one of my own as well.
Anyone can 'make' a ruleset and stage list... but whether it is helpful and useful, that's another story...

 

[SmashChamp]

Hrm. I would like to view a clip of said stages with both players in combat this should be more than enough to get an idea of what's fully being said instead of pseudo-intellectual-gamers bickering over stages they themselves probably suck at.

Champ is it possible to get together with some people maybe cloudstrifex, Maverick, whomever is willing to participate in this. Others should get in on this as well regardless if this thread is not officially regonize by SBR; Youtube anyone? --Kudos on this thread manz, brawl not on my list of games but hey willing ot try anything once.

 

[Swordplay]

I could see all of the ones you listed as being playable except.

New Pork
Hyrule temple
75m

Even some stages like BoE only were a problem because of (Certain characters like DDD)

It is certainly a playable level if your opponent is not DDD or even falco. Just band it if it is.

It could defiantly work....yea...

 

[Greenstreet]

You can't please everyone because everyone doesn't want the same thing.

 

[CaliburChamp]

Hrm. I would like to view a clip of said stages with both players in combat this should be more than enough to get an idea of what's fully being said instead of pseudo-intellectual-gamers bickering over stages they themselves probably suck at.

Champ is it possible to get together with some people maybe cloudstrifex, Maverick, whomever is willing to participate in this. Others should get in on this as well regardless if this thread is not officially regonize by SBR; Youtube anyone? --Kudos on this thread manz, brawl not on my list of games but hey willing ot try anything once.

Hey, great to hear from you again. And Maverick and CSX don't go on these boards anymore, and they probably quit. There are some people that agree, but they don't bother to post. lol.

You can't please everyone because everyone doesn't want the same thing.

I'm not forcing tournament hosts to choose these rules. If you host a tournament in your area, you don't have to choose the exact same stages like I have on this list. You can put more ban stages on the list, or you can choose if you want to choose between the Original Classic ruleset of always choosing a starter stage first, then counterstages as you lose, or you can choose the Counter Factor Ruleset.
I'm just urging the tournament hosts to try out the counter factor ruleset, so the same characters won't always be winning tournaments all the time, it would change the metagame for the better in my opinion, but you don't have to accept the idea, it's just an option if you ever choose to try it.

 

[SothE700k]

Can we have a mod lock this please? Because this is going nowhere and no-one is liking this idea.

Besides, I can smell the troll all the way from here.

 

[CaliburChamp]

Can we have a mod lock this please? Because this is going nowhere and no-one is liking this idea.

Besides, I can smell the troll all the way from here.

I'm really tired of posts like this. You contribute nothing but negativity.
I worked really hard on this, it doesn't deserve to be locked. Post back if you have something positive to say, or just dont post at all. Give suggestions on how to improve this new concept.

 

[SothE700k]

I'm really tired of posts like this. You contribute nothing but negativity.
I worked really hard on this, it doesn't deserve to be locked. Post back if you have something positive to say, or just dont post at all. Give suggestions on how to improve this new concept.

Here's a suggestion. Don't fix what's not broken.
If you're sick of posts like that, stop trying to give us some bullshit list of rules.

And I quote from YOU, on the first page of this thread:

The extremely unfair stages are the ones that are banned by the SBR.

Such as 75M, Hyrule, and them.

It doesn't help that you are a bold faced LIAR. Once again, from the first page of this thread by YOU.

This is as official as it gets. You think I would do all that hard work of posting all this information for nothing?

And who was it made by?

By the smash community and SBR.

And I quote from a mod himself: (page 3, post #32)

The SBR had no involvement in this list what-so-ever.

I mean seriously, there isn't even any color.

You're a liar, and a troll.
Please report to the closest door, and GTFO.
This thread deserves to die.

 

[Nightshine]

Dude chill the f- out man.

All he was doing was to try a different set of rules for stages. That doesn't mean he's forcing you to do these. Its just a new idea and apparently people didn't like it. Some people don't mind it or would take off some stages. Then there are the people who hate it and flame the guy for even making it.

It's just a new idea it doesn't mean you have to come here and totally blow off his whole idea just because you don't like it.

 

[CaliburChamp]

Dude chill the f- out man.

All he was doing was to try a different set of rules for stages. That doesn't mean he's forcing you to do these. Its just a new idea and apparently people didn't like it. Some people don't mind it or would take off some stages. Then there are the people who hate it and flame the guy for even making it.

It's just a new idea it doesn't mean you have to come here and totally blow off his whole idea just because you don't like it.

Yes, listen to him Soth and GTFO my thread. I'm not forcing these rules on anyone and the tournament host can choose whatever stages they would like, it would be more interesting to have another type of rule set and see how it plays out for experimentation. And thank you Nightshine, I appreciate it.

 

[SmashChamp]

Here's a suggestion. Don't fix what's not broken.
If you're sick of posts like that, stop trying to give us some bullshit list of rules.

You're a liar, and a troll.
Please report to the closest door, and GTFO.
This thread deserves to die.

You are way out of line there young man. We all reserve the right to create what we feel like now and again, regardless if people do not want or like whatever is posted; Negative feedback like this is unacceptable until mod lock this thread is not called for.
Mod or admin makes no difference can make up rules for us to govern by when it comes time to play at tournies; host rules apply not SBR!

I like this thread because it's doing exactly what is designed to do. Agree to disagree OR debate, defend, counter argue over 'x' topic until relevancy is made or disregarded.

 

[Greenstreet]

Here's a suggestion. Don't fix what's not broken.
If you're sick of posts like that, stop trying to give us some bullshit list of rules.

And I quote from YOU, on the first page of this thread:

Such as 75M, Hyrule, and them.

It doesn't help that you are a bold faced LIAR. Once again, from the first page of this thread by YOU.

And who was it made by?


And I quote from a mod himself: (page 3, post #32)


You're a liar, and a troll.
Please report to the closest door, and GTFO.
This thread deserves to die.

I'm with this guy and his mad flaming skillz. Plus he is Sonic too. How much work can you honestly put into categorising 41 stages into 3 categories? I could make a random list in about 5 minutes of the ones I like to play on and the ones I want to get banned. I'd probably give better reasoning too...
Also this whole thread could just be talked about in stage legality discussion or the thousand other threads here....

 

[Kirk]

Who would accually play on 75 m in a tournament match?

Kirk.

Spoiler

Not even kidding.

That was a fun day. :D .... o.O

No one should EVER have to play on that stage in a tournament. xD

 

[CaliburChamp]

I'm with this guy and his mad flaming skillz. Plus he is Sonic too. How much work can you honestly put into categorising 41 stages into 3 categories? I could make a random list in about 5 minutes of the ones I like to play on and the ones I want to get banned. I'd probably give better reasoning too...
Also this whole thread could just be talked about in stage legality discussion or the thousand other threads here....

Greenstreet: You have really really bad reasoning... "Oh, I'm agreeing with Soth cause he is a Sonic main and a great flamer." What kind of logic is that? Just from that sentence alone, I can tell your an ABSOLUTE MORON! And your join date is PATHETIC, your just a scrub get the **** off my thread. This thread does not apply to the Official Stage Legality thread, because its under a different set of rules. The rules and stages makes this combination work. Don't challenge my debate skills, because YOU WILL LOSE!

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

Or better yet you can have all those stages banned cause they're extremely unfair and unfit for competitive play (including Port Town)

Fixed. As much as I like Shadow Moses and Mario Circuit and their music, they're banned. DDD CG FTL.

 

[Greenstreet]

Greenstreet: You have really really bad reasoning... "Oh, I'm agreeing with Soth cause he is a Sonic main and a great flamer." What kind of logic is that? Just from that sentence alone, I can tell your an ABSOLUTE MORON! And your join date is PATHETIC, your just a scrub get the **** off my thread. This thread does not apply to the Official Stage Legality thread, because its under a different set of rules. The rules and stages makes this combination work. Don't challenge my debate skills, because YOU WILL LOSE!

I'm supporting old mate because he wasn't lying. Unlike you. You blatantly stated that this was SBR approved blah blah blah and then it was clearly stated by an SBR member that this thread had none of it's endorsement whatsoever. That's pretty much the biggest reason I'm not much of a fan of this thread atm.

Also I have an issue with this statement:

I ask for tournament hosts to please try out the Counter Factor ruleset and you'll see a positive change in the meta game for brawl or just try it out at least and see how you and all the local smashers like it.

A metagame change huh? How can you be sure that a metagame change will occur? Do you have proof? Done tests? Held several subject tournaments under this set? If so, show me the data and explain to me (with examples, no theorycrafting) how the metagame changes when this rule set is applied. Theorycrafting fails. In theory, workers should be able to complete more work with better lighting, in practice, it's not true (Hawthorne Studies...)...

The rules and stages makes this combination work.

Prove it? Stop theorising and give me some hard evidence? Wondering what that looks like? Like I said, tournaments where this set has been used and worked and videos of matches where these stages stop things like camping and CG'ing. I don't want to be told, I want to be shown. I want to see the Tournament listed matches where one of the levels you have allowed has improved a bad recovery or stopped edgehogging. You are telling me that the rules and stages make this combination work...show me.

Also...judging by join date is a bad habit.

P.S. I see no evidence of a time limit section in the OP. This is going to be a big issue with this ruleset as you have allowed ALOT of the large stages to be picked. Tournament organisers are going to be reluctant to use this if each game is taking 10 minutes to complete...which is usually how it is on levels like BoE, New Pork and Temple. One of the biggest issues in running a tournament is getting everyone through and all the games played. It's easy to fall behind at 6-7 minutes a game, let alone 10. And the last thing you want is the timer to stay the same and characters running away from each other for the duration of a match...

Also I see you have banned The Summit? I am assuming this is because of Mr. Fishy and the gravity issues coupled with the icicles maybe? What about Distant Planet? It's very similar, it has a spot in the stage where you can be instantly killed if venturing there and a spot on the left (a large portion of the stage no less) where you get washed off your feet... Aren't these similar properties? Yet one is banned and the other not? As with Pirate Ship...it has bombs thrown at you, gravity changes and a random possible kill point..yet it is allowed when The Summit is not.
Rumble Falls is similar. It's speed changes all the time...but can understand the predictability of the poison things. Nonetheless it distinctly advantages aerial combat characters as there is no real time to stay grounded at all. So what's to stop a person counterpicking this once they see their opponent has picked Ganon?

Pokemon Stadium 2 is allowed. But Flat Zone 2 isn't? Sure Flat Zone 2 has alot of spots where damage can be racked up by the stage. So does Pirate Ship, Halberd, Pictochat, Onett and Port Town. By your reasoning in making this stage list wouldn't allowing Flat Zone 2 'positively change' the metagame... I mean if they can learn to avoid the stage hazards they'll become better adaptive players yeah?

The Banned Stages:
These stages are banned because of a huge luck factor, or easy accidental suicides that can drastically change the tide of battle, or one hit stage assisted KO's which merits a ban.

Pirate Ship or Rumble Falls don't classify as that? Sure you can say, well how is hitting the needle or standing on that part of the ship an accident? Then how is standing on the bottom of The Summit count as accidental or one hit stage assisted KO's when the above 2 do not? Similar to to Distant Planet again too I guess and Bridge of Eldin.... Also Norfair? A giant wave of Lava with the only escape essentially be one capsule...

 

[Nightshine]

The metagame would change because now you would have to beaware of stage hazards that will mess up with how you play.

This whole thread is an idea, a theory, and a new way to try something out. If you would acually think about this for a bit and stop complaining then maybe you would see how this would stop camping and CG'ing. You don't ned to be shown if you think it through. If you really want to see it for yourself get a bunch of your friends and go play using these rules!

If they run it can be considered stalling if they continue it then disqualify them. your there to play and fight people and have fun not to run around on a stage and be a moron so just disqualify them.

Distant Planet does not have gravity changes in it and you can land ontop of that thing and stay there for two seconds before getting eatten. In The Summit your in water, you can't do anything except jump which takes time to do causing you to be eatten before you get out. The part where you get washed only occurs when it rains and even if you do you can hang on the ledge at the bottom of the hill and not be taken down by the water. Pirate Ship has gravity changes but the stage does not angle itself during them. the ship still stays flat while its in the tornado. The bombs provide metagame changes because you now have to add in stage hazards to dodge that are more easily avoided than the fish on summit because your screwed if your hit down in there. Plus the Polar Bear slams the summit down more every time he jumps making less of the stage. You can avoid the kill point frm the catapult on the ship and it doesn;t come up that often if you're that worried about it wait til it goes back inside the ship before going over.

Waht to stop a person from coutner picking Rumble falls against ganondorf is the fact that you can prevent playing on that stage with these counter factor ruleset. whoever lost can pick a stage to not be played on. If you're even more worried aobut it then don't be ganondorf and be MK -.- answer to everything these days >.>

Flat ZOne 2 is much smaller and the people and random falling foods hurt and rack up damage easier than the other stages because on the other stages they can be avoided more easily. Onnet you only need to worry about a car and its easily avoided. Flat Zone 2's damage racking hazards are much more frequent and in a smaller area. True this could change the metagame up but it would also make it harder for players to learn from fighting other people. You have to dodge the random crap on Flat Zone 2 more than you have to acually fight your opponent.

Pirate Ship and Rumble Falls don't have as big of a luck factor as the banned stages for this list do. The bombs and catapult on pirate ship can be easily avoided. Rumble falls all you need to know is where those needles are and you can avoid them more easily. They change metagame because you have a potential chance of getting hit into them by your opponent. WHich is just a failure for you because you probably could have avoided it completly.

On Norfair getting into that capsule is no your only means of avoiding it. You can hang on a ledge and use the invincibility frames, you can spot dodge or aerial dodge. Countering with marth of Ike, Using MK's dimensional cape, Lucarios doubble team, theres many different ways and if you don't play with these characters then aerial dodge, spot dodge or grab the ledge. Or go tell your opponent to gtfo and hit him out.