University of Texas - Austin

[chaoscontrolASH]

Thank you Kal for not killing us with that fire! But that butter-soaked bacon and sausage will probly kill us via heart attack soon.

i think i just had a heart attack reading that

 

[takeurlife2]

event link(post moar): http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=267728

 

[Noc]

I think the meeting after this Saturday should be a major Brawl tourney on May 8th. It can be a lot like Endless Challenge--$5 venue fee, doubles/singles/pizza at 2pm/4pm/6pm respectively, same entry fees, etc. We need to make the thread this week though to allow enough time for hype to build. Kal, maybe you and Hylian can make it?

I just sent in the room reservation form for May 8, WEL 1.316, noon-midnight. Should get confirmation by Friday.

 

[-RedShadow]

May 8th = same date as HOBO 24

soooooo yeah

 

[Kal]

Yeah, May 8 can be Melee again, and we can do a big Brawl tourney on a day where all the Austin Brawl players won't be in Houston.

 

[chaoscontrolASH]

Yeah, May 8 can be Melee again, and we can do a big Brawl tourney on a day where all the Austin Brawl players won't be in Houston.

why another melee? ur right if we have to pick another day

 

[Kal]

Well, it's either Melee or nothing, since Brawl wouldn't make sense.

 

[chaoscontrolASH]

then how about nothing? if its the last meeting, not like we have to go out w/ a bang or anything lol

 

[Kal]

Well most of us actually WANT to have a Melee tournament.

 

[chaoscontrolASH]

lolol that i know

 

[Noc]

After this Saturday, we basically have only 3 more Saturdays where we could possibly have a meeting/tournament. It's too late to advertise a major tournament for April 24th so that leaves May 1st and May 8th, which happen to be when Phase 8 and HOBO 24 take place, respectively.

Basically, our options are: (1) we could have 1 or 2 smaller meetings with no major (i.e. for out-of-city players) tournament, (2) have a small-decent sized Brawl tournament on May 8, or (3) have another large Melee tournament on May 8.

 

[takeurlife2]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=267728 (go post hurr)

 

[Kal]

After this Saturday, we basically have only 3 more Saturdays where we could possibly have a meeting/tournament. It's too late to advertise a major tournament for April 24th so that leaves May 1st and May 8th, which happen to be when Phase 8 and HOBO 24 take place, respectively.

Basically, our options are: (1) we could have 1 or 2 smaller meetings with no major (i.e. for out-of-city players) tournament, (2) have a small-decent sized Brawl tournament on May 8, or (3) have another large Melee tournament on May 8.

Since Mitch is going back to Mexico, we should host another Melee tournament.

 

[Noc]

It does sound like several Brawl players from Austin and San Antonio would be on board for a Brawl tourney on May 8th...what if we made it a big Melee AND Brawl tourney?

 

[MT_]

If we do have a Barlw tourney we can title it "Limited Challenge" for its series name. Or maybe "Finite Challenge."

 

[Noc]

Brawl is a deep, competitive game like Melee. It just requires more patience. IMO, Melee is more fun/exciting but Brawl is fun too.

 

[BRLNK88]

Brawl does have a real competitive scene, but its NOT a deep game, not nearly the way Melee is.
It wasn't made to be a deep game.

 

[Kal]

Rohan, cut me a ****ing break, you don't know what you're talking about. If you're going to assess a game, at least be qualified to do so.

 

[BRLNK88]

so according to you Brawl is as deep as Melee...
>_>
and I've played a **** load more Brawl than you have, so if anything I'm more qualified to assess it than you are.
and anyone with basic level smash experience knows Melee requires more tech skill than Brawl does.

and why would Clay be any more qualified to assess it than I would? For Melee, yeah obviously he plays it a lot more than I do, but I didn't see you attacking HIM for assessing Brawl.
to top it off, how much ****ing qualification do you need to say Brawl isn't as deep as Melee? Give me a ****ing break...
Ur just looking for another excuse to get a rise out of me, when everything was good and peaceful on here.

 

[Kal]

so according to you Brawl is as deep as Melee...
>_>

Not at all. But to say that Brawl is shallow is pretty ridiculous. Consistent tournament placings suggests that the game is pretty deep.

and I've played a **** load more Brawl than you have, so if anything I'm more qualified to assess it than you are.
and anyone with basic level smash experience knows Melee requires more tech skill than Brawl does.

Don't be a moron. Playing more Brawl than me doesn't make you more qualified. And I haven't made any assessments on the game's depth, so your argument isn't much more than a strawman. My point is merely that, knowing almost nothing about how Brawl is played, you should be careful to make blanket statements like "Brawl is not a deep game."

and why would Clay be any more qualified to assess it than I would? For Melee, yeah obviously he plays it a lot more than I do, but I didn't see you attacking HIM for assessing Brawl.
to top it off, how much ****ing qualification do you need to say Brawl isn't as deep as Melee? Give me a ****ing break...
Ur just looking for another excuse to get a rise out of me, when everything was good and peaceful on here.

What Clay said wasn't ridiculous. And no, I'm not looking to get a rise out of you. I'm pointing out how much of a ****ing ****** you're being by making these bull **** blanket statements. You don't know anything about either game, so to act like you're somehow knowledgeable enough to accurately claim that one is shallower than the other is nonsense.

 

[BRLNK88]

You don't know anything about either game

um, that sounds like a blanket statement to me...
>_>

Do I know what DACUS is? Yes. Do I know what a wavedash is? Yes. Do I know what a ledge tech is? Yes.
Do I know HOW to do all those things? YES
I think those qualify as things I know about the games. Now you're being a ****ing ******.

I had a private discussion with Clay.
The game is deep in certain areas, but overall, Melee is the deeper game.
There's lots of character specific techniques in Brawl that you need to know to compete at a higher level, but that wasn't the sort of depth I was referring to.
And if you think Brawl is so deep, why are you always razzing it?

 

[Tirno]

I had a private discussion with Clay.
The game is deep in certain areas, but overall, Melee is the deeper game.
There's lots of character specific techniques in Brawl that you need to know to compete at a higher level, but that wasn't the sort of depth I was referring to.
And if you think Brawl is so deep, why are you always razzing it?

A game's depth is not defined by how many advanced or char. specific techniques it has (e.g. chess). Also, people make fun of Brawl cause they think it's dumb/campy/gay/not fun, not cause of the depth. Perhaps instead of saying "depth", you should talk of "learning curves".

 

[BRLNK88]

A game's depth is not defined by how many advanced or char. specific techniques it has. Also, people make fun of Brawl cause they think it's dumb/campy/gay/not fun, not cause of the depth.

Clay said it can be but w/e.
I can agree with that.
And I have seen the depth argument tons of times before, but I suppose its a little outdated. Plus the main reason I don't play Brawl anymore is cuz I don't think its fun, not cuz of depth. Otherwise I would be playing Melee more often.

 

[MT_]

OK well I didn't think my little joke to Brawl would incite this, but it seriously needs to stop. On another topic, where are we having the smashfest we mentioned for this Friday? I am HYPED!!!

 

[BRLNK88]

I agree.
I just wish Kal would disagree with me in a more civil manner...
I get upset cuz he says things like "you don't know anything about either game".

Did you see me getting upset at Edgar?

On the other note, it'll be awesome to see all those smashers from different cities playing each other.

 

[Tirno]

Clay said it can be but w/e.
I can agree with that.
And I have seen the depth argument tons of times before, but I suppose its a little outdated. Plus the main reason I don't play Brawl anymore is cuz I don't think its fun, not cuz of depth. Otherwise I would be playing Melee more often.

I think you guys are confusing competitive depth with learning curve. You can have a shallow game with a steep learning curve or a deep game with a shallow learning curve. Depth pretty much refers to how much room there is for improvement (i.e. you can only become so good at tic-tac-toe/RPS but the same is not true of chess/go). Learning curve is what you're describing it seems (technical learning curve, to be specific), and that refers to how difficult it is to achieve a certain level of skill/competency in the game.

OK well I didn't think my little joke to Brawl would incite this, but it seriously needs to stop. On another topic, where are we having the smashfest we mentioned for this Friday? I am HYPED!!!

Once again, my place is open for smashfests, but we'll probably hold it at Kal's.

 

[BRLNK88]

I think you guys are confusing competitive depth with learning curve. You can have a shallow game with a steep learning curve

What's an example of a game like that?

 

[Tirno]

What's an example of a game like that?

It was in theory man. I can't think of any of the top of my head, but it's probably cause nobody would make/play a game like that.

If you want some made-up example, imagine a game exactly like tic-tac-toe, but instead of Xs and Os, you have to make exact replicas of The Starry Night and the Mona Lisa. Still no competitive depth, and a lifetime of learning, haha.

 

[BRLNK88]

It was in theory man. I can't think of any of the top of my head, but it's probably cause nobody would make/play a game like that.

If you want some made-up example, imagine a game exactly like tic-tac-toe, but instead of Xs and Os, you have to make exact replicas of The Starry Night and the Mona Lisa. Still no competitive depth, and a lifetime of learning, haha.

that makes sense.
but reverting to the depth argument, if you can't go by character specific things, just what about Brawl would suggest its just as deep a game as Melee?
I wanna see someone like Hylian, who has tons of experience in both games address that.

 

[HMV]

A smashfest on Friday sounds like fun.

 

[Tirno]

that makes sense.
but reverting to the depth argument, if you can't go by character specific things, just what about Brawl would suggest its just as deep a game as Melee?
I wanna see someone like Hylian, who has tons of experience in both games address that.

It helps to know the game to assess its depth, but you can pretty much tell by just looking at how consistent the game is. If you held a series of RPS tournament, the entrants' placings would be much less consistent than in some game like chess, and so you could probably conclude that RPS has less competitive depth than chess.

 

[Kal]

um, that sounds like a blanket statement to me...
>_>

Do I know what DACUS is? Yes. Do I know what a wavedash is? Yes. Do I know what a ledge tech is? Yes.
Do I know HOW to do all those things? YES

Knowing a few tactics doesn't qualify you to address the game's depth. Those tactics are more like knowing how to move in the game than they are actual aspects of depth. The analogy would be like chess. Knowing what castling is doesn't qualify you to discuss chess theory, *******.

I think those qualify as things I know about the games. Now you're being a ****ing ******.

O RLY

I had a private discussion with Clay.
The game is deep in certain areas, but overall, Melee is the deeper game.
There's lots of character specific techniques in Brawl that you need to know to compete at a higher level, but that wasn't the sort of depth I was referring to.
And if you think Brawl is so deep, why are you always razzing it?

Well, if you had a private discussion with Clay, that's enough for me. Good ****.

"Razzing it?" Seriously man, that's an expression I've never heard before. What the ****? Anyway, I bash it because I think it's boring. I still avoid making a fool of myself by talking about the game's depth, because I don't actually know anything about the game's depth.

Honestly, man, you're not competent with regard to either game. You may know about a few tactics, but there's so much more to a game than the face-value advanced techs you read about online. You should avoid statements like "Brawl is shallow" when you don't have any knowledge about the game.

 

[MT_]

Tetris has little depth but a high learning curve.

 

[BRLNK88]

There you go again Kal, saying I don't know anything about either game.
Why don't you just say I don't know enough, rather than "anything"? You're referring to me as I was some guy off the street who's never touched a controller before. I obviously know a lot about both games, just not as much someone who's pro. But I'm not gonna sit here and list every single tactic I know for your benefit, it is WAY more than you're giving me credit for.

And to "razz" something basically means to point out bad things about it. Ever heard of the "razzie" awards? They're the antithesis of the Oscars.

 

[Kal]

There you go again Kal, saying I don't know anything about either game.
Why don't you just say I don't know enough, rather than "anything"? You're referring to me as I was some guy off the street who's never touched a controller before. I obviously know a lot about both games, just not as much someone who's pro. But I'm not gonna sit here and list every single tactic I know for your benefit, it is WAY more than you're giving me credit for.

You don't know "a lot" about both games. Really man, it's exactly like saying you know a lot about chess theory because you know what castling is. Yes, you know what wavedashing and shffling are with regard to Melee, and you know what DACUS is with regard to Brawl, but this doesn't make you knowledgeable enough to compare the depth of the games.

The games are so much more than the advanced techs. Those things are just the face value of the game's depth. They're basically just technical inputs. Most of the Melee tactics derived from wavedashing are considered so standard that it is ridiculous to regard them as "advanced." The same holds for most of the things you "know" about these games. The games are just so much more than the sum of their advanced tactics.

And to "razz" something basically means to point out bad things about it. Ever heard of the "razzie" awards? They're the antithesis of the Oscars.

Obviously, I know what you meant by the word.

 

[BRLNK88]

You don't know "a lot" about both games. Really man, it's exactly like saying you know a lot about chess theory because you know what castling is. Yes, you know what wavedashing and shffling are with regard to Melee, and you know what DACUS is with regard to Brawl, but this doesn't make you knowledgeable enough to compare the depth of the games.

Those were just some examples of things I know. Like I said, I'm not gonna sit here and list everything I know about the games. My point was its far more than "nothing", which is what you claimed.
You don't know about all the hours I've spent, both practicing AND browsing for techniques.
Not to mention the tons of pro Melee and Brawl matches that I've watched.

 

[Kal]

If you had the necessary knowledge to compare the games, you'd have made a legitimate comparison, and not just pointed out nonsense like "it wasn't made to be a deep game."

Of course, you're welcome to post some actual reasons for why you feel Brawl is shallow, in spite of consistent tournament placings suggesting otherwise, or for why Melee is deeper.

But honestly, just based on conversations we've had about the games and how well you play the games, I wouldn't expect your argument to be terribly compelling.

 

[BRLNK88]

and not just pointed out nonsense like "it wasn't made to be a deep game."

No, I just used the wrong term, I should have said "learning curve".
But that statement specifically IS true.
Sakurai made Brawl with casual gamers in mind. That's why he removed things as simple as dash dancing and L-cancel. He didn't want the game to be deep, and he himself would prolly even tell you that.

 

[musashi]

man i read this crap on gfaqs everyday, does it has to be here too lol
anyways, this argument will never end cause neither of you is gonna settle down.
rohan clearly knows stuff about both games and kal does too.
so ya whos gonna house me and darkrain :D?

 

[Noc]

Can you please refrain from bringing up what I supposedly said, Rohan? You tend to put words into my mouth.

Anyways, I don't think this argument will go anywhere since the statement that Brawl/Melee is the deeper game is highly debatable and subjective. Plus, you and Kal are kinda stubborn so neither of you will convince the other.