Universal flaw in SSBM

[Zander805]

/agree Ultros

The only character that has no chance against anyone is Pichu.

Also, everyone has a counter, which makes the game much more fair.

 

[gtothe3338]

i concur. not all the players have equal abilities, but they r all unique in their own way. You also have to realize that us gamers have taken this game to a level the designers did not expect us to reach. These glitches, which improve gameplay by 1oo fold, such as wd'ing or shffling, were not meant to be in the design. I can understand short hopping, cause u se lv. 9 chars. attemp to hit you with it, but they are futile because they suck. The super wave dash was not meant to be! i love edgeguarding form across the stage. HAHA!

 

[Banks]

-No Johnz.-

 

[CaptainAwesome]

How does this thread still exist? Why does this thread have eleven pages?

I rate this thread:

D- Bad: Used either by extreme noobs, or the best of pros as a means to humiliate much lesser opponents. Makes a joke out of the character and ultimately gives SSBM a bad name...

 

[Ragnarok91]

i concur. not all the players have equal abilities, but they r all unique in their own way. You also have to realize that us gamers have taken this game to a level the designers did not expect us to reach. These glitches, which improve gameplay by 1oo fold, such as wd'ing or shffling, were not meant to be in the design. I can understand short hopping, cause u se lv. 9 chars. attemp to hit you with it, but they are futile because they suck. The super wave dash was not meant to be! i love edgeguarding form across the stage. HAHA!

How is shffling a glitch? They had short hopping, fast falling, and L-cancelling all in the N64 version. (except L-cancelling was Z-cancelling)

How does this thread still exist? Why does this thread have eleven pages?

I rate this thread:

D- Bad: Used either by extreme noobs, or the best of pros as a means to humiliate much lesser opponents. Makes a joke out of the character and ultimately gives SSBM a bad name...

This thread still exists since random newbs who want to increase their post count decide to argue with stupid points thus causing the knowledgable ones to counter, etc. Also, probably 10/11 of the pages are just repeats of what has been previously said. (basically everything possible has been said, so I see no reason for more posts after this since the last few pages have already just been people posting their thoughts on the thread even if they have been stated before)

 

[PurpleEqualsDoom]

This is so incredibly unfair. Why would you guys suddenly turn spiteful to this thread? It is not a noob thread, whatsoever. The fact that most of the people ridiculing me have Fox and Falco avatars- coupled with the fact that you're calling me a "noob"- is perfect evidence of my point. You have grounds to argue if, and only if, you actually have personal experience with low-tier characters defeating a-teir characters with both players having the same skill level.

One thing you CANNOT do is try to insult my cause when you YOURSELF only use one of those a-tier characters, never using the others in serious gameplay. Allow me to be mellodramatic here and say that this type of player would never understand where I'm coming from.

I totally acknowledge those of you who claim they know plenty of people that are incredible with the underdog characters. I mean, that's awesome, and I commend people for trying to max out their skills with lesser characters, but here's a question: In all the major SSBM tournaments held, nation-wide and world-wide, what were the characters used for each final? Has any major tournament ever boiled down to a Sheik and a Yoshi? Or a Marth and a Mewtwo? Or a Falco and a Ness? I honestly can't answer that, but I have extreme doubts.

Someone tell me all of the victors of all the world tournaments and US-nation-wide tournaments and give what character they were. If one answer is something other than Fox, Falco, Marth, or Sheik, I'll throw in the towel on this one and jump out of the n00b closet bareass naked.

 

[marth's son 10]

I think it all depends the advertising of each character. Your right, most people only use those characters like Fox, Falco, and even Marth or Roy because they see other people win continuously with those characters. It is possible though, to win with C or D tiers in scrub matches against your friends, but if you wanna win big, you have to be either to be ridiculously good with a C or D tier character, or be moderately good with an A or B tier. Sorry dude, I like your thinking and I agree with you, mainly because I hate kids who think their so great with Fox or Falco (even though one of my best friends uses him, and I truthfully admit is better than me), but they do have certain advantages over somewhat ****ty characters like Pichu and Jigglypuff, or C and D tiers. Anyways, why is this so important to you. Do you use a C or D tier or something?

 

[Red Exodus]

Balancing characters isn't an easy task, there is such a thing as too much balance. Where characters are so similar to others that it becomes monotonous. I don't really see a problem with having characters in a game that actually suck.

 

[darkatma]

oh noes the year old thread has been revived

 

[Red Exodus]

I just realized that >.> the new guy did it

 

[Citrussed]

:/ Hear we go again.

 

[pdk]

... why? Do you expect us to beleive you just because you said it? Try and back up your agruement with some facts. BTW, I think this "SSBM is unfair" s*** is just a big huge excuse for why these people suck at SSBM.

this thread sucks, yes, but i'd say the only real expection to "no fighter is really fair" would probably be virtua fighter, which many pros say makes each character equally competent in high-level play with the big differences being in how technical they are to use; just about every other series, though, has some sort of character that's at least close to being overpowering (guile and akuma in sf2, yun and ken in sf3, choi in KOF, sc2's are obvious, etc.)

 

[pikachun00b7]

I think it all depends the advertising of each character. Your right, most people only use those characters like Fox, Falco, and even Marth or Roy because they see other people win continuously with those characters. It is possible though, to win with C or D tiers in scrub matches against your friends, but if you wanna win big, you have to be either to be ridiculously good with a C or D tier character, or be moderately good with an A or B tier. Sorry dude, I like your thinking and I agree with you, mainly because I hate kids who think their so great with Fox or Falco (even though one of my best friends uses him, and I truthfully admit is better than me), but they do have certain advantages over somewhat ****ty characters like Pichu and Jigglypuff, or C and D tiers. Anyways, why is this so important to you. Do you use a C or D tier or something?

that was over a year bump.

 

[darkatma]

Yes it was

At least it shows the guy who bumped it is using the search function, because threads dont show that far back

I believe everything's been said before though, and purpleequalsdoom is partially correct that this game is unfair, but yea it has it's perks.

 

[CWolf20]

So let's get this straight: If this new guy uses the search function, finds a thread he wants to discuss, bumps it, he gets insulted.

If he makes a new thread, he gets told to use the search function.

YAY!

 

[Zink]

I would go so far as to say that it's unbalanced, but not enough to kill tournament play. Sure, there are worse characters, but there are plenty of pros who play them- Azen plays everything, Gimpyfish made Bowser, Taj played an awesome M2, Aniki owns as Link, TT as Ganon, Chu as ICs, etc.

 

[experiment111]

I care not for tiers!
I CARE ONLY FOR KIRBY!!!!!!1111111 ^_^

 

[CWolf20]

If there's one thing that low tiers have going for them, it's lack of experience against them. I know that if I played a good Mewtwo at this point, one at a similar skill level as me, but had focused on Mewtwo, I would probably lose a few games before I got the hang of it. I presume that the vast majority of players, even tournament pros, have considerably less experience with and against the lower level tier players. They could be caught by surprise by different combos simply because nobody they play with uses that character often enough to really unlock their capabilities.

This isn't to say that they have a real advantage at all, Fox/Falco/Shiek/etc. still have the statistical advantage over anyone, but the lower tiers at least have (somewhat) the element of surprise.

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

Thank you for using the search function!

Of course the game is unbalanced. There's no way to make the game balanced without making every variable of every character the same (aside from purely cosmetic variables such as color). While giving more power to the guy with less speed, or more priority and range to someone without a projectile sounds good and balanced on paper, it isn't in the real game. Some characters will always be better than others. Just deal with it.

 

[darkatma]

So let's get this straight: If this new guy uses the search function, finds a thread he wants to discuss, bumps it, he gets insulted.

If he makes a new thread, he gets told to use the search function.

YAY!

No, i wasn't insulting him for bumping it. I was just thinking.. Wow this is bumped.
He used the search function, so this is totally legit

tiers aren't all important, just like phanna's character matchup chart isn't even 70% accurate.

 

[LunInSpectra]

*sneezes*

Nice post.

 

[ToP CaT]

I didnt read much of this thread but i did read about half of the original post, and it did make me come to realize that characters like Ganon, Dk, Bowser and such should live about 30-40 percent longer on the average than the smaller better characters like fox/falco/shiek they are no more powerful but, 200x slower, which idk i guess isnt right, but thats life.

 

[Cisne]

do you srsly think that all chars can beat each other ?
Falco could SHL bowser till the tournament ends
I saw gimpyfish bowser vid , hes really good but do u think that he could beat ken or pc chris if he had the chance ?
My friends use GW and pichu (examples) just for fun, they dont try to improve with them beacuse they know that the chances of winning with them even with lots of practice are very low.
Its really hard to beat top tiers with low tiers. Those ppl that are crazy lowtier players are exceptions o_O

 

[Aaron_Sketch]

I beat my friends' samus with my g&W all the time, even though we are equal skill level. It's not as bad as you say it is, but I see what you mean.

I don't care too much, but it would be nice if each character was just a little more balanced... I see what you mean, but oh well. Life goes on. And even if Ganon gets pwned by shiek, I still think the King of all gerudos is 1000X cooler.

Um... So yeah. We would all like balance, but this game is as close as it gets. This is the most balanced fighting game I've ever played, so compared to other games, it is amazingly balanced. You can never achieve total perfection, but SSBM comes pretty close anyways.

I lost the game.

 

[Aaron_Sketch]

*sneezes*

Nice post.

Bless you.

 

[Foxman15]

There are no flaws in melee. You will be punished.

 

[pdk]

We would all like balance, but this game is as close as it gets. This is the most balanced fighting game I've ever played, so compared to other games, it is amazingly balanced.

 

[marth's son 10]

True, but even if your good enough at points, you can cover small weaknesses with your character.

 

[Foxman15]

There are no flaws in melee. You will be punished.

Because some poeple are unable to understand the point sarcasm and exaggeration and overstatements, I am stating that this was one of those comments. :bigthumbu

 

[BrTarolg]

ok. let me tell you how the metagame of SSBM works.

screw "mindgames, speed, power" etc. etc. what counts is the metagame.

shiek can 0-death almost half the chars in the game with downthrow, and the majoirty of her combos work on all characters.

marth can 0-death edgeguard against most characters, and has a 0-death chainthrow on fastfallers.

iceclimber can 0-death anyone.

peach has the capability to do 70% in one hit.

fox can 0-death waveshine half the characters, even more with a wall, and can 100% kill edgeguard half the cast

---

THESE are the things that make broken characters. not "speed" or "power" or all that crap. if the metagame didnt revolve around these things, samus would be top tier and the best in the game. but does samus have the metagame? no not really.

its actually the *really* simple things that makes a character broken or not.

 

[The 5th Police]

It is an interesting flaw however, it is not a flaw to the makers of this game. If they saw it as a flaw then they would have taken it out of the game lol. I hope they make brawl equally balanced besides everyone having supers.

 

[rockman2k1]

There's no such thing as a balanced fighting game..................

Virtua Fighter 4 Evo, Guilty Gear XX Slash are very well balanced! And definetly the most balanced games out right now.

As for the Fox vs Mewtwo debate from earlier in the thread. It's not a slaughter until Fox lands his SHFFL dair into infinite into death against Mewtwo!

 

[shadenexus18]

Alright, Rockman2k1 plays Virtua Fighter 4 Evolution as well. Awesome! Akira Yuki rulez!

 

[BrTarolg]

virtua fighter is too hard >.<

stick to nice easy simple smash plx :x

 

[Eaode]

Fox can't waveshine mewtwo. Mewtwo has crazy combos on fox. I'm talking 65-75% combos, which you can finish off with edgeguarding. They both have the potential to own eachother. Just because Fox is the extreme opposite of mewtwo on the tier list doesn't mean it's an automatic win.

 

[shadenexus18]

Well, Virtua Fighter can be difficult if you haven't mastered motioning the Directional Pad.
Then again, you were supposed to have mastered the D-Pad in the glory days of Street Fighter because almost all fighting games based the moves off of that game.

 

[pdk]

Because some poeple are unable to understand the point sarcasm and exaggeration and overstatements, I am stating that this was one of those comments. :bigthumbu

simple, we all figured it out but found it unfunny

 

[ToyzSoldier]

It looks like this argument can go on until the end of time, with no end in sight.

But here's my insight anyway. The thread creator basicly says this game is based on the tiers list. The tiers list is only applicable with people of equal skill level. And if any of you have been watching the equal skill level discussion thread, equal skill is impossible to reach. Thus the tier list is void. That probably didn't help much

 

[h1roshi]

Mewtwo on the other hand, is generally slow, his attacks are fairly sluggish and only adequately powerful, and his DownB and OverB specials are pretty much broken in serious combat.

F- Broken: So underdeveloped that the character cannot function properly in most serious settings. Can even be glitchy in design to their own disadvantage. Generally neglected.

ur definition of broken is wrong btw...when u say something is "broken" in games it means that it is ridicilously good...so like...fox/falco's shine is broken, peach's dsmash is broken, and marths tipper is broken...just thought u should know...since ur using it in the exact opposite manner...peace

-hiroshi
nastiest cfl sheik

 

[Red Exodus]

ok. let me tell you how the metagame of SSBM works.

screw "mindgames, speed, power" etc. etc. what counts is the metagame.

Metagame and mindgames are the same thing, it's just that people prefer to call metagames mindgames.