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Unintended Consequences Mafia: The Saga Concludes

Purple

Hi guys!
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EE, here's my op on Gheb


p621 - gheb doesn't just FoS three people, but says to lynch them.
I'm morely bugged by his hastiness to vote vote off three players.
None of them with explanation
p634 - fluff
p692 - fluff "conversation related to another game"
p703 - response to my metagame comment, generally not helpful.
p735 - defends macman but has nothing to back it up other than "u mad?"
p742 - all i see from this is "macman you should randomly vote on someone since they 'obviously' won't be lynched.
p789 - failure to try to pry deeper into conversation, just asserts his lynch wants (note, earlier he wanted three people
lynched in any order, now he just wants me, he doesn't explain his change for this)
p790 - my question to him about why lynching me.
p843 - far after my unanswered question. More defense towards Macman. Asserts
who he wants to lynch again, this time giving an order (fatchu/me/tpk).

Aggressively pushes the lynch towards me, even though he has still not answered simple questions
p844 - votes me, but says he might change after a re-read. But he was so certain of me before.. hmm..
p895 - unvotes

From this he's extremely aggressive but with no logical reason behind any of his doings. Even though there are people who discuss these lynches, he doesn't recite them or ask questions, just votes.

Seems to pressure to end days quickly and has ignorance to simple questions (such as mine)

I'm not entirely sure what questions to ask from this.. I just know that Gheb bugs me (i'll have more on KevinM later, Macman is self-explanitory.)

:reading back on it:

His quickness to end days would make sense considering he's a census voter, So gheb, what did you get for d1?
 

Purple

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btw, i just realized you actually ignored this opinion on gheb when i first posted it, and that when i posted it gheb suddenly thought i was not scummy.

now he thinks i'm scummy again

:ohwell:
 

Evil Eye

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Well, give me a second to pull my foot outta my mouth. Not that most of your D2 play didn't have that coming, but apparently you're serious today so thank god for that and sorry about the slam.

I ignored that back then because none of it did much to convince me he was scum. Lots fit my town-meta, and a lot is made up from things you can't call negative. Defending Macman?

Basing your suspicions on a suspect defending another suspect who hasn't flipped yet is stupid. It's giving yourself too much credit, and I don't think there are any good players that too that, so that's not ELITE FOUR egoism. Thus him defending Macman is, uh, not scummy. It just is what it is, at best it's something to look at when one of them has actually flipped. As for being on you/TPK/Fatchu, at least he was 1) consistent about it 2) 33% correct, one was scum 3) you were on both of those lynches, too, with far less precedent.

And since I got newpaged :mad:

@Everyone not in the Three: If one of us is the play, who's scum? Why?

@All: Should we be focusing on the Three, or trying to hunt the indy in Gheb's census?

Both of these questions assume Gheb's censusing claim to be true -- not the town part, just the census. Note that before responding.
I take it you feel Gheb is the play if the play is one of the Three. What about the latter question? Which do you see as more productive?

@Virg: My question to you is back there somewhere, find it please and thank you.
 

Evil Eye

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That post got more tangential than I'd like, but I'm discussing, stuff, anyway.

I'd really like people to answer my questions quickly so we can build off of that for discussion toDay. I think that would be a lot more productive then everybody eating popcorn and watching a handful of people go around in a circle.
 

#HBC | Mac

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Haven't read the big posts yet, but I wanna say I don't think EE is scum so ghebs revelation thing isn't meaning much to me. And i'll probs just ignore it to a certain extent
 

DtJ S2n

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If the play is one of the three, I'd say Macman personally. Process of elimination for the most part.

EE, you've been leading the town to good places this whole time, and I don't see you being scum at this point.

Since we're lynching for mafia, not indy, mafia census would be dumb. There's not multiple mafias, and unless the indy was something really unusual I don't see why that would ever be a role. And I also don't see why a mafia census would go and clear everybody who was on the TPK lynch like that (assuming he's telling the truth about the numbers). I'd think that a mafia would try and keep as many players open to being mislynched as possible.

And that leaves Macman. His "one time poisoner" role is impossible to prove now that he used the only use. Not to mention poisoner is a mafia-aligned role much more often than a town-aligned role. Also the role was an easy cover-up for why he was opposing the TPK lynch, who happened to be mafia.

As for the second question, I'd say focus on the three. 1 in 3 chance, as opposed to 1 in 8 chance, and Macman seems pretty obvious out of the three imo. We've only got 3 mafia so far, and out of 16 I'd say there's definitely another.
 

Virgilijus

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@Virg: Is your account about feeling dizzy more or less the words KiKi used, or a paraphrase?
It is a paraphrase, otherwise it would go against the rules. However, it is a faithful paraphrase.

I am at work now and can't say everything I want to right now. I'll respond fully afterwards.
 

Nicholas1024

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I agree. I doubt anti-town Gheb would be so dumb as to direct so much attention his way, and EE has been super-town. So, that leaves Macman. I've previously stated my dislike of his claim (unprovable, with miller added in to nullify cop investigations). Also, I agree that there's probably 2-3 more anti-town left. The last game I was in this size had 4 scum and 3 indies. Although that's probably on the high side, it reinforces my belief that we have at least 2 more threats to consider.
 

Scamp

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Alright, I'm here to offer my opinion of the day so far.

Firstly, I agree with the majority so far that we should be looking at the three left rather than the sorta-almost-cleared TPK lynch party. But if I had to pick someone to go after in that group I'd pick Nick.

But just because I don't think we should hunt the independent right now with our votes doesn't also mean we shouldn't hunt for the indy in general. I agree that an SK seems unlikely for the independent. If there were an SK then there would probably be at least two deaths on one of these nights. I'm not sure why EE put the possibility of a cult leader as low, however. The census says there is one independent in the TPK lynch. If that's a cult leader (or follower) then the other follower/leader could easily be one of the three not on the TKP lynch.

Oh and Gheb, if there is a cult the last thing you do as a cult is totally work together and make it obvious who you all are once one person has been found out.

I personally think Gheb is not lying with the census thing as it's not the hardest thing to verify over time. And even if there are five mafia I can't see it as a good gambit to try. Best-case scenerio for them is we lynch all three of the non TPK-wagoners and the mafia kills three people. That leaves a 3/1/1 split or a 4/1 split at the end, not even factoring all the other shenanigans that could happen. So I don't think Gheb is giving out false info.

However, this isn't to say that I fully trust Gheb's info is totally accurate. It is possible that some mafia members have the ability to manipulate or avoid the census. (Though perhaps that's what Ryker's power is. Oh a census? I'll get around to filling it out later....) Maybe a cult leader's followers show up as townie.

Also I don't think we should just assume that TPK was the mafia and Fatchu was the townie. I do agree that that was probably the case, but we shouldn't assume it as certain.


Anyway, add to all of this that I haven't liked Macman's play or attitude in this game at all. This play is pretty clear to me.

Vote: Xonar

Vote: Macman

That Xonar thing is just a test. It kind of looks like he killed himself on purpose.
 

Kirby King

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Day 3 Vote Count
Scamp (1): Evil Eye
Macman (1): Scamp

Not voting: Moronik, Sold2, Gheb_01, Macman, KevinM, Nicholas1024, Roxy, Virgilijus

It takes 6 out of 10 votes to lynch.

The deadline is Friday, April 9 at 11:59:59 PM ET.
 

~ Gheb ~

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Roxy, read. I don't actually think you're scum. It was more that I thought we have still another mafioso left after Xonar's flip and that he had to be one of the ppl not voting for Pap. Now that Kiki has fixed that votecount I see that you voted for him anyways, so the whole point if obsolete.

If we have 1 mafioso left it has to be - according to my results - between Macman and EE.

However, I can see that we might just be hunting an indy which is laaaaaame

:059:
 

KevinM

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I would like to vote for EE mainly because he mentioned Indy hunting which is like blatant stupidity in this case.

Idk though Macman hasn't done anything this game, but when does he ever.

Sold2 is also on my watch list I figured I should mention.

Kinda thinking with the fact that we've got a rather good town to scum ratio, or so it seems with how many dead scum we already have we should lynch Gheb and test out the role first.

Don't feel like playing follow the power role if it doesn't exist.
 

~ Gheb ~

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1.) Sold2 is like 75% clear
2.) Are you seriously waisting a mislynch just to confirm my report? If you think it's questionable then just don't follow it.
3.) How is indy hunting "blatant stupidity"? We have 3 dead mafiosi already. If there is one left then it's between Macman and EE.

:059:
 

~ Gheb ~

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Actually, Sold is 100% clear for me now. There's no way that mafia would have that role after flipping Stalker, bomber and procrastinator.

:059:
 

Evil Eye

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Kevmo said:
I would like to vote for EE mainly because he mentioned Indy hunting which is like blatant stupidity in this case.
Uh, what?

It's really not. I would've thought you've played enough games where a third party faction needed to be eliminated to clinch a town win. Such as, gee I dunno, the game you just recently won wherein you were an indy, town wouldn't win until you were dead, and you won because they didn't catch you. My role PM doesn't say anything about winning when all the mafia alone are in the ground, as I suspect they are.

Wtf was that bull**** post? Other than saying something uncharacteristically stupid.

Shouldn't ever have to ask Dumb or Scum with Kevmo...
 

Evil Eye

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Man I seriously got the willies from Kev's post there.

And Gheb, you don't see how mafia would have what role re: Sold2? I don't remember seeing a claim.
 

DtJ S2n

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Gheb really catching my attention now. As much as I'd like to know what you're thinking, I wouldn't say anything. Also, the mafia only having 3 members would be really odd, so I think it's a pretty safe assumption that there's at least one more.
 

Evil Eye

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Hmm. 16 man game. I was considering this one as 15 at first... I suppose a 4 + 1 indy seems more likely.

Just the same, I'm having a really bad imagine of someone pushing this thing hard. Not only does my win condition blatantly imply that that indy's gotta die for us to win, which is evidence enough that it could be all that's left, but obviously the indy is plenty antitown by virtue of the fact that they haven't claimed yet and I believe everyone alive has posted.

It's too easy to say "alright well let's check out the Three. Might as well lynch Gheb to verify."

Oh cool, he is what he says he is. Welp, better lynch Macman guess Virg/Roxy/whomever was right. Oh, ****, he was town.

Alright sorry EE you gotta die bro we've already committed to this.


Before you know it, depending on the indy we're dealing with, we're out of lynches and **** outta luck. So Kevmo looks really freaking suspicious to me right now, considering he tried to completely discredit the notion that we have to take down that indy. A train of thought that could torpedo this game. If we were to go 0 for 3, which I can easily see happening as it's a slippery slope, we're running a massive deficit of lynches that might have hit the indy, if it's the play. Kevin tunnels sometimes, but in terms of where to actually take the game, I never see him flat-out refuse to accept a logical assumption/possibility unless he's playing for a different team. And that fact that he's coming off a heady SK win steeped in exactly this kind of ignorance is making my antitowndar go haywire.

Seeing the usual shenanigans of Gheb getting way the hell ahead of himself and KevinM steering the focus from a big picture focus back to kneejerk-Gheb thinking just does not feel right at all.


Mmph. At any rate, if Gheb is being truthful and there's scum yet, by process of elimination it has to be Macman, from my point of view. And his claim does him no favors, no denyin' that. The way what few comments he made before jumping back in lined up with it so completely, and my general feel from his posts really, makes it a really uneasy lynch. Especially since plenty of our potential indies were pushing on his wagon like a sex-starved frat boy.

Ugh. Worst endgame mafia headache I have ever had. Time for sleep.
 

Nicholas1024

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I would like to vote for EE mainly because he mentioned Indy hunting which is like blatant stupidity in this case.
No. Just no. After that scum wars fiasco, there is only one thing left to say. ALWAYS lynch indies, REGARDLESS of what their claimed role is. It would have been hard to come up with a more townie-friendly indie role than what you claimed in Scum wars, and you were the sole reason we lost that game. I've made this mistake once, and I am NOT making it again. Although mafia may agree to indy hunt, town needs to do so to. Mafia-hunting takes priority, but don't lose track of the indies.

Regardless, by process of elimination, the play has to be Macman. If he flips town... I just don't buy Gheb-scum or EE-scum at the moment. I'd rather look at the rest of the group for the indy.

Vote Macman
 

Moronik

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Actually, Sold is 100% clear for me now. There's no way that mafia would have that role after flipping Stalker, bomber and procrastinator.
wat

whats a bomber and procrastinator

kevins last post aligned with a lot of what i was thinking. so glad im not the only one who doesnt have ee cleared

btw nick town lost scum wars cuz they played like ****. i know what you mean by that post but the wording just bothers me

a cult? what? wouldnt that mean that n1 they recruited one of ee/gheb/macman and then again n2?

hey cult leader if youre out there get me in that

im on break. im gonna reread and look for generally ****ty posts by those on the paprika killer wagon. i guess? or maybe latch onto someone. indy just claim you ****
 

Virgilijus

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Hmmm. I don't know what to think of EE's last post, but the same can be said for KevinM. Need to think more about this.
 

Scamp

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Don't know what a procrastinator is. I'd guess a bomber is like a suicide bomber. Blow yourself up to kill someone else guaranteed. I've also seen mad bombers where you place bombs on other people and when you die the bombs go off. Obviously that wasn't the case here.

Anyway, thinking about what the dead mafia roles do is pointless unless they can use them while dead. Still fun to do, though.

And yes, if there is a cult leader then they probably recruited EE/Gheb/Macman night one and someone else night 2. There's also the possibility that EE/Gheb/Macman is the cult leader and recruited someone in the TPK party, and then someone else night 2.
 

Nicholas1024

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Guys, this is unintended consequences. How do we even know if the cult (assuming for the moment there is one) would have a normal recruiting method? They might only be able to recruit every other day or perhaps the recruits don't actually kick in until another day has passed. We shouldn't anything for granted here.
 

~ Gheb ~

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I don't know the other roles of the mafia flips but stalker is boss PR and we have 2 more confirmed mafia PRs. No way that they would have Sold2's power too.

I can see a game with 3 scumbags and 3 indies in a 16 player game (FFVII had 15 players and 4 indies) so that COULD mean that Macman and EE are both indy plus the indy who voted for Pap. That's just speculation though - if we're lynching people based on their scummines (which we SHOULD do) Macman or KevMo look like good plays toDay.

:059:
 

Kirby King

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Due to sporadic downtime, the deadline has been extended to Saturday, April 10 at 11:59:59 PM ET. Additional extensions may follow as needed if the boards keep going down. Also, I'm waiving activity prods for the next little while for obvious reasons.


Day 3 Vote Count
Macman (2): Scamp, Nicholas1024

Not voting: Moronik, Sold2, Gheb_01, Macman, KevinM, Nicholas1024, Roxy, Virgilijus, Evil Eye

It takes 6 out of 10 votes to lynch.

The deadline is Saturday, April 10 at 11:59:59 PM ET.
 

Moronik

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i still havent reread. but looking at the player list theres no one that sticks out as super scummy like ryker/tpk did for me. in the meantime

wuddyall think of directing the sk/vig/whatever tonight for the sake of town controlling two kills? if the kill doesnt go through then we at least know were dealing with an sk barring some night shenanigans. the only hangup i have with this is that he correctly shot xonar so maybe its best to just let him do his thing

instinctively im inclined to look for the indy. that way i at least know theres something to be found cuz i remember thinking gheb was town

scamp/virg: what do you consider the ideal strategy for sk?
 

DtJ S2n

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Thank you mod for the lenience on deadline and activity.

It's hard to analyze the night kills we've had. Rockin(someone we were going to lynch), and Xonar(mafia, also presumably a suicide role). They both look like Vigilante kills if anything, but what does that mean about the mafia and the third party(I'm assuming we have one)?

I would personally let them do it on their own if they're vigilante, they're doing a good job. If they're SK, then when we come to lynch them, we might be able to use a night kill they made as evidence against them, because they can't use "but you told me to kill them" as a defense.

Vote Macman.
Feeling this is the direction we should go.
 

Nicholas1024

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I hope smashboards is fixed for good now...

I say that we go for Macman. At the moment at least I trust Gheb's report, and I'm not believing EE-scum. So...

Vote: Macman
 

Kirby King

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Deadline extended another 24 hours. Hopefully issues will be resolved by tomorrow.


Day 3 Vote Count
Macman (4): Scamp, Nicholas1024, Sold2, Roxy

Not voting: Moronik, Gheb_01, Macman, KevinM, Virgilijus, Evil Eye

It takes 6 out of 10 votes to lynch.

The deadline is Sunday, April 11 at 11:59:59 PM ET.
 

Scamp

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Moronik I'm not sure if I should answer that question. If there is an SK in the game, why would I tell him what I think is the ideal strategy for him to do?
 
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