Unintended Consequences Mafia: The Saga Concludes

[Purple]

Well, not really hours, but you get the idea. I posted my posts, then scrolled up.

 

[Kirby King]

Day 1 Vote Count
ChiboSempai (4): Virgilijus, Macman, Gheb_01/Xonar, Evil Eye
Rockin (2): KevinM, Moronik
Ryker (1): Fatchu
Nicholas1024 (1): Scamp
Roxy (1): ChiboSempai
Xonar (1): Ryker
Evil Eye (1): Rockin

Not voting: Pierre the Scarecrow, Nicholas1024, The Paprika Killer, Roxy

It takes 8 out of 15 votes to lynch.

The deadline is Sunday, March 14 at 11:59:59 PM ET.

 

[CT Chia]

I literally posted that and THEN saw your message. That happens alot when you stare at a thread for hours Chibo.

If that's the case then ok

I just found it odd since your post 357 was targeted at Mac's 355 it seems, which means you should have read my 348 by that point. Your post contradicting to my 348 was post 358, when you should have read mine already.

Blah the numbers sound stupid. Pretty much, you responded to Mac's post which was after mine, but said you didn't read mine yet which I don't get.

 

[KevinM]

Have to do a massive reread, still thinking Rockin over Chibo.

Macman thought you were going to try and be useful this game?

 

[Evil Eye]

Kevmo: At first blush, what's your read on Chibo?

You said dumb town before, but now you're addressing him like a lynch candidate, so I wanted your opinion clarified.

 

[KevinM]

useless town.

:D

 

[Evil Eye]

Hah. Fair enough, amigo.

And Roxy, while you're at it?

 

[KevinM]

Currently dealing with the dumb or scum argument.

Leaning more towards noob town.

Still think Rockin is our best bet.

Also still down for lynching Nicholas for the reasons I stated before.

 

[Scamp]

It's just that: Too easy for a lynch to just be mafia. I feel that Roxy has been attracting a lot of attention very quick. I feel that Mafia wants to try and avoid negative attraction to one's self.

Do you think that Roxy was intentionally attracting attention? I thought he got attention because of how much he was avoiding attention.


Still waiting on some more posts before I make a judgement call on who to go after. It's not just Pierre that's disappeared.

 

[Pierre the Scarecrow]

Looking forward to seeing what NIcholas's new opinions are now that its been a few pages since he was all over Gheb for ****ty reasons.

I thought EE's case on Roxy was pretty bad but I'm comfortable with his vote/case against Rockin and comfortable with EE.

Like Macman. Thought I disagreed with his opinions for a bit, especially his opinion on The Paprika Killer, but since there was no backing on them, I guess whatever.

Paprika bad logic in 275, Rockin bad opinions in 323, Chibo bad in 329.

KevinM been all over Ryker for being worthless but I dont see him doing the same to Paprika or Rockin. Or Scamp, or me. Kevin what do you think of all those people? scratch that, outdated, moving on.

Roxy case / bandwagon seems kinda strange. I disagree with a lot of it and the way it snowballed has been strange too. ChiboSempai 182 is empty weird vote for Roxy, came back in 196 with ****ty reasoning. Moronik 192 empty weird vote for Roxy but I like Moronik's behavior so far (cept his comments towards me which I guess were warranted as I was gone).

Going through the list,
Moronik, Gheb, Xonar, Macman, KevinM, Virg, Evil Eye stay.
Nicholas, Scamp, Fatchu wake up and do something but stay.
Need to re look at Roxy, Ryker but think they can stay.
Chibo, Paprika, Rockin go.

vote: Rockin

 

[Virgilijus]

I'm still waiting for some of the lurkers to post more (fatchu/etc), but am comfortable with my Chibo vote in the meantime.

I'm leaning towards EE being town. Less leaning with KevinM. I still need to dwell on Roxy/Gheb/Xonar.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I need to make a GOOD reply to the last few pages, because some questions arose in my mind. I can't be bothered to do it right now, but I will do later.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Disagree with the Chibo wagon, just getting dumb town from him.

useless town.

I think I've adressed this issue before but I don't like how you're taking the easy way out toDay. You're essentially going with any lnych that's comfortable and doesn't have any big consequences in case of a mislynch. Sure it's not the worst idea ever for a townie to play but it's really, really safe for scum to play as well.

Had I not seen you play like this as town many times before I'd be tempted to vote you.

What I'd like to know from you is who you think is scum (mafia or indy), not who you don't mind dead. I don't mind half of the game dead at this point but that doesn't stop me from scumhunting. And I think now's a good time to ask the same of you because so far you have not given us much in that regard.

It's just that: Too easy for a lynch to just be mafia. I feel that Roxy has been attracting a lot of attention very quick. I feel that Mafia wants to try and avoid negative attraction to one's self.

I feel that Roxy is a maf being bused. I feel it'd be too easy for us to catch a maf that attracted negative attention, so the mindset I have is Roxy being bussed by a maf.

So you think Roxy is mafia based on _____?
You think he is bussed by ____? Because _____?

You're starting to become really vague and fluffy again while at the same time you're actions don't make sense. You're sure that Roxy is a bussed mafia but you vote EE instead? That alone is a huge contradiction; nevermind the fact that you never explain why you think Roxy is mafia (at least not based on sound logic). How you come to the conclusion that he's being bussed and by that particular player (EE) is beyond me.

I said before while I am generally a tad low on the activity in day 1s on big games like this.

Not from what I've seen.

Do you think that Roxy was intentionally attracting attention? I thought he got attention because of how much he was avoiding attention.

What's your point?

 

[Nicholas1024]

I figured I'd better straighten out my thoughts on everyone, so here we go. Also, I know some of the stuff here will be somewhat derived from other people's arguments, but I figured I had better make everything as clear as possible, so...

Scum

Rockin:
If you think Roxy's a mafia being bussed, then by all means, let's lynch Roxy! It seems way too early to determine whether or not Roxy is a bus target, simply because we don't know Roxy's alignment. You're basically using the reverse of the "Too townie" fallacy, or "Roxy's so scummy, there must be a bus!" Erm, what? Explain why you wouldn't want to lynch Roxy if you thought it was a mafia bus. The other thing I don't like is the whole "unhelpful v.s. anti-town". It is anti-town to be unhelpful, and anti-town behavior can be helpful (when a scum slips up and gets lynched, for example.) However, you not wanting to lynch "unhelpful" people doesn't sit right with me, as lurking is a VERY easy scum position to take. I did it in Wonderland mafia and RTS mafia, Ronike and Frozen did it in Scum wars, tmw_redcell and Sharpevil did it in Spidey mafia, Hilt did it in LoDScrew, and that's just off the top of my head.

Roxy:
See EE's case. Just way too reluctant to take a stand on things. However, the epicmafia thing does make sense. Still though, I'm unsure.

Chibo:
Chibo seems to be feigning activity. He waited a while to post, and then posted nothing of real content when he did so. EE already tore apart his post pretty completely, so I won't do it again here.

Unsure

Gheb:
I think I tunneled too much on him earlier. Lately, I've been agreeing with his logic and liking his posts more. I haven't dropped all suspicion on him from my earlier case, but he's dropped down my scumlist quite a bit.

KevinM:
KevinM needs to explain his reasoning. He's called Macman out for lurking, but why specifically Macman? There's plenty of players who could use a call-out. Also, he wants me dead for reasons he supposedly stated before. I looked back through your posts, and all you ever said against me was "don't like the way he dropped his case on Gheb". That is not nearly enough for a case.

Xonar, Scamp, Ryker, Fatchu, Macman, Paprika:
I don't have a good feel for any of these guys alignments, mainly due to lurking and the fact that they mainly attatch to bandwagons instead of giving a case of their own. Verdict pending.

Town

Evil Eye, Moronik, Pierre, Virg:
I haven't seen anything from any of them that I have a major problem with, and all of them are making good points and helping town.


Any questions?

Vote: Rockin

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I need to make a GOOD reply to the last few pages, because some questions arose in my mind. I can't be bothered to do it right now, but I will do later.

Nvm that, so much for skimming.

I'm not ok with lynching Roxy, just thinking noobtown. Chibo I don't know, but leaning towards (lazy)town right now. Rockin would be fine with me right now.

Gheb, with your 'rockin town' thing a while ago in mind, what do you think about Rockin? Willing to lynch him atm?

Mr Paprika has been bothering me. He hasn't done anything but made posts about nothing. Fatchu is just inactive and should let himself get replaced right now. And Ryker is doing a 'hit-and-run' on me, which I don't like at all.
I'm not allowed to inactivity vote right now though. Stupid Gheb

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Any questions?

Me! Seeing as you have Pierre as Town, what do you think about EE's case on Pierre? If you've already told us, please link me to that post please.

 

[Evil Eye]

Tied wagons right now. Time for the lurkers to start doing something.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

lol @ 2x please in 1 sentence. mad polite, yo

 

[CT Chia]

Chibo:
Chibo seems to be feigning activity. He waited a while to post, and then posted nothing of real content when he did so. EE already tore apart his post pretty completely, so I won't do it again here.

Any reason you didn't bring this up before, or are you parroting EE's statements?

 

[KevinM]

I think I've adressed this issue before but I don't like how you're taking the easy way out toDay. You're essentially going with any lnych that's comfortable and doesn't have any big consequences in case of a mislynch. Sure it's not the worst idea ever for a townie to play but it's really, really safe for scum to play as well.

Had I not seen you play like this as town many times before I'd be tempted to vote you.

What I'd like to know from you is who you think is scum (mafia or indy), not who you don't mind dead. I don't mind half of the game dead at this point but that doesn't stop me from scumhunting. And I think now's a good time to ask the same of you because so far you have not given us much in that regard.

This is just misconstruing what I've said as I've been content with a rockin lynch for a while now, I never said I wanted to lynch Chibo at this point over the people I think scummy, just that I wouldn't lose sleep over it at night if he died.

 

[KevinM]

Not like I use the who's posted for activity policing but I figured it was something worthy to note that there are multiple players with less posts then the game mod.

That's a little frustrating.

 

[Rockin]

If you're 100% positive Roxy is a mafiat being bussed, then FoS on you, because if you by your own admission have only one thing against the person you're voting for, yet are voting for the against the person you are completely convinced is mafia... yeah, something's very not right.

Because you're saying "I think this person is mafia for sure, so I'm voting for this person I'm suspicious of." From your own point of view, you are choosing to not vote for a mafiat.

Epic Mafia johns are not always just that. And yet again, it wasn't just "I play Epic Mafia too". I'm disappointed you're forcing me to spell this out, as this kind of tangential discussion basically just creates bagged lunches of defences for mafiats on the block. In fact, come to think of it, I'm not going to spell it out for that exact reason. The point is that the defence made enough sense to me to water down my positivity of guilt. Not enough to assume innocence.

Situation vs things you said is irrelevant. The point of my comparison is that this "townEE notices something and never lets go ever ever unless something major comes up" nonsense is false, and it's the only real point you've made. To use your own words, your "situation" was still a "scummy matter", and yet I relented in TLI. And I'm relenting here.

I have nothing more to say. The jury's still out on dumb or scum.

Wouldn't make much sense to vote on a bussed mafia if one feel's they're being bussed. Also, that fos won't work much cause everyone knows I dispise bussing my own Mafia buds.

Until I see a flip from you, I'm still going to believe that you would push really hard till something comes up. If by chance you are town at the end of this game, then I'm sorry. Remember, I only saw played with you in two games. One as town, other as maf (TLI, you was a miller, so that was a hybrid of maf and town lol)

In fact, I would say pointing out a potential bus before it happens is staunchly antitown. Scummy, even. What benefit is there to playing with hypotheticals like that before they're concrete? Analyzing bussing works best, y'know, after you know it was a bus.

A protown mind would just keep watching the wagon and try to catch scum. And it certainly isn't a valid reason to stop a freaking lynch, if you're so sure of the guilt.

Not liking this at all...

Twas hoping to keep quiet about it as well, but Moronik and maybe a few others really wanted me to take a stand to things and not sissy out. So instead of voting on a unhelpful, I just voted someone who was suspicious (that wasn't Roxy)

Rockin, I too would like to know why you're voting EE instead of Rockin. Even though EE already said it, perhaps it's better to hear it from someone that isn't potentially trying to get your vote off of him.

Your idea comes in two parts:
-Roxy is scum
-EE is scum busing him

Now out of the two, which is more likely to be true? If you're focusing your scumtell on EE by him bussing Roxy, then that means the first statement has to be true or your theory falls apart. On the contrary it's possible for Roxy to be scum and and EE not to be. Also note there are other people on Roxy such as me. Statistically speaking, not to mention following thoughts of others, it would make a lot more sense to vote Roxy over EE.

Not saying it's a scum tell on Rockin for voting EE over Roxy with his explanation, it's a null tell more with him just tryin' to be cool and not doing what is actually beneficial.

I feel confident that Roxy is indeed scum and that EE is bussing her for it. It was the same thing done on Monster Mafia on me (He and KevinM were pressuring me to get lynched, while I provided defenses against them and anyone else).

I know there are other people and I have been carefully looking at them. Unfortunatly, I've been seeing either town vibes or them being unhelpful. To be honest, I dislike voting/lynching a unhelpful on D1, cause I feel that not all of them can be awesome and useful on D1 (myself included). I like to wait till D2 to see if their scumhunting/usefulness has improved. If it hasn't or they're still coasting, THEN I start voting them.

I never like lynching a useless person on D1 cause that person might end up useful on the following day.

Rockin, you could say my posts are very obvious. While everyone is barely giving any information and merely wagoning EEtown's post. Mine are quite obvious what i want to know. Xonar has said himself that the information could deem helpful to town, it's just that we're also feeding information to mafia as well.

Are my posts really that scum filled? I was going off of assumptions that the game mod would've make this setup bad for town in the sense that no one can protect one another. While mafia will get guaranteed kills on power roles, we can also get guaranteed information to base off of for many turns. That was my general view of it.

I really don't think i said too much that was scummy, except that EE ripped me apart. If anything the people who were so clear to be on me have just as much of a reason to be put on the spot. We all know this game is based off of wording by this point in the day, how much of you scum didn't bother catching it until EE posted it?

Roxy, it's not just the little role question you made, but it's also THIS[/ur]. It just didn't make much sense for you to go after EE like that. Not at all. And then even currently, you're not really much helping up in the discussion.

While some of your posts are a bit scum-filled, you seem to be the easiest to lynch, as well as probably one of the highest of chances to have scum jump on that.

Do you think that Roxy was intentionally attracting attention? I thought he got attention because of how much he was avoiding attention.

Seems intentional, especially since I havn't seen much improvement from Roxy after the case. >>

So you think Roxy is mafia based on _____?
You think he is bussed by ____? Because _____?

You're starting to become really vague and fluffy again while at the same time you're actions don't make sense. You're sure that Roxy is a bussed mafia but you vote EE instead? That alone is a huge contradiction; nevermind the fact that you never explain why you think Roxy is mafia (at least not based on sound logic). How you come to the conclusion that he's being bussed and by that particular player (EE) is beyond me.

Sorry Gheb, the last few replies, I was in a paying cafe, so I had to make my posts a bit short.

So you think Roxy is mafia based on His way of attraction negative attention and going after EE (who was barely in the spotlight to begin with)
You think he is bussed by Evil Eye (Could be others, but I don't know yet)? Because He Fosed, to which turned to a case, then a vote. When a bandwagon didn't happen on Roxy/case wasn't too convincing (As well as Roxy simply saying he played Epic Mafia AFTER the case), EE unvoted


I was REALLY hoping not to vote on anyone today, cause, if a Roxy vote were to happen, I wanted to see the result. If Roxy came up as Mafia, then I would put a case on EE, then voted. If Roxy came up town, I'm sure I wouldn't have bothered EE as much, and that it wouldn't have been a bus by him. Would've possibly saw EE as town.

However, I was needed to take a stand, and since I didn't want to vote on a unhelpful (as said before, I like to give unhelpfules another day to be useful), I went after EE. If I voted for Roxy, she gets lynched (let's say she comes up as Maf), and then go after EE the next day, my words would be void/nuff cause I could also be accused of bussing in Maf (least, that's how I see it).

I know I've been a useless town so far, but I am trying my best here ^^;;

 

[Evil Eye]

So many things wrong with that... so many things...

Also, that fos won't work much cause everyone knows I dispise bussing my own Mafia buds.

Slip?


Class soon. I'll try to get a reread in tonight, but Rockin is doing everything in his power to vacuum my vote off the Chibo wagon.

 

[Purple]

You guys really don't read my posts unless EE quotes them i swear..

 

[Purple]

Btw Nick, i like how you re-wrote what everyone has found out on their own, do you have any of your own thoughts?

 

[Kirby King]

Day 1 Vote Count
ChiboSempai (4): Virgilijus, Macman, Gheb_01/Xonar, Evil Eye
Rockin (4): KevinM, Moronik, Pierre the Scarecrow, Nicholas1024
Ryker (1): Fatchu
Nicholas1024 (1): Scamp
Roxy (1): ChiboSempai
Xonar (1): Ryker
Evil Eye (1): Rockin

Not voting: The Paprika Killer, Roxy

It takes 8 out of 15 votes to lynch.

The deadline is Sunday, March 14 at 11:59:59 PM ET.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Just like to mention that I find the people on the Chibo wagon (except Macman) more trustworthy than any of the people on the Rockin wagon. On the other hand Rockin's explanation on why Roxy is scum and why he prefers to vote EE over him is pure wishy-wash and one of the most generic arguments I've ever seen.

Rockin / Chibo should go toDay. Better be a vig in this game though.

 

[Purple]

What makes them more trustworthy, past games? Shouldn't only this game matter?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I find Kevin, Moronik, Pierre and Nick all hardly trustworthy in this game. Not saying that you should ever trust anybody except yourself but (in this game) I find none of the people on the Rockin wagon trustworthy.

 

[Purple]

I wouldn't put out your acts of who's trustworthy or not so open, that only allows people to be able to team up with you.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Any reason you didn't bring this up before, or are you parroting EE's statements?

I wanted to reread and check things over. That's why.

@Roxy
Lies. This is my personal perspective on the game, and there's no way anyone could have figured that out completely. Not to mention, when half the game has given an opinion on a matter before I can, it's very difficult to come up with something new. What do you have that's new and original?

 

[Purple]

@Nick - Macman lurking and voting on every FoS

 

[Nicholas1024]

@Nick - Macman lurking and voting on every FoS

No no, that's old, just like my case on Gheb. What do you have that's new NOW? (If you're going to use a criteria on me, I'm going to hold you to it.)

 

[Moronik]

fatchu you should just replace out

vig i think you should shoot

a) inactive
b) dumb-or-scum
c) lurker
d) non-voting do-nothing who slows down the game and makes analyzing them more of a pain
e) some combination of the above

but yeah def shoot a ***** tonight lotsa fodder

gheb macman is obvtown hes like the towniest of the town

behind us of course

 

[Purple]

That's something I've been saying for the longest Nick. Now it's old because i brought it up again? Why should i purposely switch FoS's to prove something just to 'you'? That'll only make me look scummy.

 

[Nicholas1024]

That's something I've been saying for the longest Nick. Now it's old because i brought it up again? Why should i purposely switch FoS's to prove something just to 'you'? That'll only make me look scummy.

That's the point. I made a completely original case on Gheb, which although I've backed off somewhat, I'm still keeping in mind, and you're saying "Got any original content?" The conditions that you're following and the ones that you're holding me to are NOT the same. See my point?

 

[Nicholas1024]

fatchu you should just replace out

vig i think you should shoot

a) inactive
b) dumb-or-scum
c) lurker
d) non-voting do-nothing who slows down the game and makes analyzing them more of a pain
e) some combination of the above

but yeah def shoot a ***** tonight lotsa fodder

gheb macman is obvtown hes like the towniest of the town

behind us of course

Hey Marshy, why are you so sure Macman is town? He's not super-high on my scumlist, but I'm not sold on him being town either.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Don't want roxy dead anymore. Chibo wagon needs more votes

 

[Purple]

Macman is mad serious about some chibo now >_>

 

[Scamp]

With all these new opinions thrown down this looks like an excellent time for a re-read and re-assessment. I don't have time to do it today but I'll get it done tomorrow.