Undertale Mafia, 13 man! Game over! Town wins!

[Spak]

Well, I am town. So if I can get people to follow my vote, that means there are more people voting as though they were townie.

From my PoV, I have no clue if you're town or scum, which means you could be leading people to follow your vote (which, as is the case with everyone's vote, could be influenced by personal bias no matter how well-meaning the vote is) or you could be misleading people to follow your vote (with scummy intent). The personal bias is usually balanced out by people voting differently than each-other (generating good conversation and advancing town), but if you take away that factor, we are just left with one biased vote that could determine the fate of the game

You seem to think that starting a sub-group within the game is somehow more open to exploitation than the game itself is. Of course there is potential for scum to abuse the system. But it could also help townies to work together. In the end it works exactly the same as the game itself, and the end result is null - which is why it never really works out.

People who want to genuinely find scum will naturally work together; you don't have to form a club for that to be the case. Making a group of "safe" slots with no mod-confirmed information of if they are town or not is a terrible idea; lynching anyone who refuses to join sounds less like scumhunting and more like a certain band of radical Muslims that are terrorizing the civilized world. By forming a group like this, you are effectively trying to manually re-balance the game by eliminating all who have objections to your corrupt system and get all who agree with you to endgame (a chance that any scum would take up in the blink of an eye). If you are town, I am sorry for your shortsightedness in the creation of this system. With that said, I think you're scum. You fail to prove how this is a good system and your constant defense of it despite good reasoning shows that you are unwilling to say you are wrong, which is something that I've found as a scum tell for most of my games.

Vote: Kary

I'm off to shower now, I might be back a bit later.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Kantrip

So I have a few questions regarding your most current post where you vote me.

1.) How do my questions come across as dead-end/go nowhere? Especially when my questions have prompted the following responses:

a.) Helped Sparky get out of being tangenty and not being on-topic. Now he seems more engaged in the game.
b.) Got a response from Rake that you didn't predict and actually had a valid other reason to it. So I want to ask again, why did you try and pigeon-hole Rake here into one of two options purely based on being a tad rude towards the player and also barring yourself to a very black-white view of how Rake is?
c.) Questioned Sang to start posting. She posted more about your slot and about you being odd although she seems to be back on the fence again after bringing up a valid point. *Weird point towards her*
d.) Opened a vein of conversation with Soup where he also pointed out that you were being odd. He also has seemed engaged and cooperative in my questions and didn't dead-end.​

2.) How has my reaction been disingenuous in the fact of your poking me about Rake?
3.) Why are you attributing the way you read Rake (which is primarily meta) as a reason to call me scummy because I view Rake differently than you do?
4.) Do you truly believe in what you pointed out to be scummy regarding my slot and also something that is indicative of me, J, being scummy in such a strong fashion to move from RVS voting to pressuring my slot rather than you seeming to have a difference of opinion regarding the situation at hand which you, Kantrip, have put yourself into?

I think that'll answer my main concerns with your last post, but I will say your reasonings for voting me are a bit contrived which is fair considering how early in the game it is. I want to know your mindset behind what you are doing because again, you are being weird and not making sense. I want to see whether that is scummy or just derpy at the moment.

I feel like J was instrumental in making the whole Kantrip thing a big deal. It was unnecessary and I don't know if that's J being some kind of self-righteous rules lawyer or J trying to lather **** on Kantrip.

I think we all know that Kantrip over-stepped with his vote at that point, but this is just such an overblown response.

That's very fair, but the problem I am having with anyone calling out Kanty is that no one has decided to stick their own neck out and vote him already. This concerns me. No one is taking the initiative to actually call him scum and actually do something about it if they find Kanty scummy. Why has no one voted him and put their most powerful tool to use? If I was in Kanty's spot and came in with all the hub-bub, but no votes? I would promptly not assume it was that important an issue. Hell, even Soup unvoted instead of voting him yet continues to call him scummy. If yourself/Sang/Koopy/Soup feel passionately about that it leans scummy over derpy, why are you maintaining your RVS votes or unvotes instead of voting him? Especially when there are 0 votes on him as well.

I also find it hard to understand this post. On one hand it feels like a call to arms on the Kantrip waggon, but on the other, J himself is on the fence about the Kantrip lynch. As Dietz points out, Kanty wasn't active at that time- so why is surprising that people are biding their time? Seems to be making a lot of fuss without really going anywhere.

 

[Spak]

#HBC | Kary

Don't you dare try to direct attention off of yourself. Your point against J can be addressed after you are finished explaining your actions from the Kult. Do you have nothing to say for yourself in response to my last post? No rebuttal?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Give me time to get over this headache that is beginning to start due to the fact this day might be become Kantrip v. Soup for the umpteenth time.

If you think Kantrip's post is fluff, why can't you just explain that? How hard can it possibly be to say 'he's repeating himself' or 'his answers are wishy-washy' or whatever other reason you might have. You could even say 'it's hard to explain'. I struggle to see how this is a question you need more time to answer.

Second, no-one is making today 'Kantrip vs Soup' except you. One person voting for you does not eat up an entire Day. One person voting for you doesn't force you to argue against them. Come on now.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

You literally just told me you were going to shower. Now you are upset I didn't answer you already? Get over yourself, kid.

 

[TheKingofKoopas]

So, now that I actually understand these massive walls:

I was talking about prior to his unvote, which is when I made the first post.

"unnecessary" is definitely unrealistic word choice, because the wall very clearly explains why he did what he did + his thought process. If you don't agree with it, that's one thing, but calling it unnecessary is simply incorrect.

Well, what's your thought on it now that he made the 180?

vote: thekingofkoopas

There has been literally no context for this. Either this is to tell me to be active or you're actually waiting for me before you say it.

you haven't done much either, ballpoint-licker

*snooty anime character gasp*

 

[Spak]

You literally just told me you were going to shower. Now you are upset I didn't answer you already? Get over yourself, kid.

It takes me less than half an hour to shower; I just ate lunch as well. Now then, do you have a rebuttal or not?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

People who want to genuinely find scum will naturally work together; you don't have to form a club for that to be the case. Making a group of "safe" slots with no mod-confirmed information of if they are town or not is a terrible idea; lynching anyone who refuses to join sounds less like scumhunting and more like a certain band of radical Muslims that are terrorizing the civilized world. By forming a group like this, you are effectively trying to manually re-balance the game by eliminating all who have objections to your corrupt system and get all who agree with you to endgame (a chance that any scum would take up in the blink of an eye). If you are town, I am sorry for your shortsightedness in the creation of this system. With that said, I think you're scum. You fail to prove how this is a good system and your constant defense of it despite good reasoning shows that you are unwilling to say you are wrong, which is something that I've found as a scum tell for most of my games.

Okay. You seem to be operating under the assumption that somehow I would have absolute power over the game just because I started a group. I cannot actually force people to vote one way or the other. I cannot actually make a slot 'safe'. I wouldn't want to 'lynch anyone who refuses to join', but if I did want to, I wouldn't be able to.

You literally do not seem to understand how this thing works. Either not enough people join it for it to be relevant, or too many people join it to the point where it isn't trustworthy. The 'town circle' thing literally does not work. I am not 'defending the system' - I have already given up acting like the church, and now I am explaining basic game mechanics to you because you have your knickers in a twist.

 

[TheKingofKoopas]

I'm satisfied by Kantrip. Not town-lean, but just satisfied.

I understand his push on Soup though.
Kant, what if I told you that Soup has rushed out of RVS like this as town in multiple games already?


@tHe-Man I challenge you to a weightlifting competition and you're still not here. I thought you were He-Man, not Wuss-Man

 

[Spak]

Okay. You seem to be operating under the assumption that somehow I would have absolute power over the game just because I started a group. I cannot actually force people to vote one way or the other. I cannot actually make a slot 'safe'. I wouldn't want to 'lynch anyone who refuses to join', but if I did want to, I wouldn't be able to.

You literally do not seem to understand how this thing works. Either not enough people join it for it to be relevant, or too many people join it to the point where it isn't trustworthy. The 'town circle' thing literally does not work. I am not 'defending the system' - I have already given up acting like the church, and now I am explaining basic game mechanics to you because you have your knickers in a twist.

All this can be yours for one low low payment of becoming my proxy vote. That's right! All you have to do is vote how I tell you to

 

[Spak]

(The second quote is meant to reference the first sentence).
Also, another contradiction. You said in your original explanation:

I had this idea to try and run a 'town circle', you know, like you get a voting block of all the more trustworthy/active people and lynch outside of them.

but now you say:

I wouldn't want to 'lynch anyone who refuses to join', but if I did want to, I wouldn't be able to.

I'm not saying you would be able to, but I'm saying that it would be a heck of a lot easier to have people vote with you if you have even the slightest case for someone around the time of lynch with the Kult than without.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

You don't understand what you're talking about. I have explained it already. If you want to keep wasting your time, go ahead.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Hey Spak, care to do something relevant? Nobody gives a single **** about Kary's church thing, nobody joined it and even Kary himself never actually did anything with it. Amount of people who took note of it / took it serious: zero.

Why do you bring it up again?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Can we like ... get **** done already? This game is starting to bore me and it hasn't even started yet.

Vote: KP Joey

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Can we like ... get **** done already? This game is starting to bore me and it hasn't even started yet.

Yeah, yeah!

Vote: KP Joey

what?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

*snooty anime character gasp*

you didn't answer my question:

i swear if the church starts to vote maven i will be very upset.

why do you care about Maven?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

what?

I'll gladly repeat myself:

Vote: Joey

 

[#HBC | J]

Joey's in my list of 4, but why for you, Ghebberoo?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

He made one post with a lot of fluffy, inconsequential "content". The stances in that post are flat-out strange and he hasn't done anything else except a pretty forgettable back and forth with soup.

That's good enough for a lynch tbh.

 

[TheKingofKoopas]

you didn't answer my question:
why do you care about Maven?

I don't, I was just confused as to why you were voting him.
He's replacing out now, so it doesn't matter much now.

 

[#HBC | J]

He made one post with a lot of fluffy, inconsequential "content". The stances in that post are flat-out strange and he hasn't done anything else except a pretty forgettable back and forth with soup.

That's good enough for a lynch tbh.

If toDay were between him and Soup, would you be opposed? Hypothetically speaking of course since if your wagon catches steam, the only other person who is on the lynch trail is Soup currently with half-ass pushes like mine on Kary.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

If toDay were between him and Soup, would you be opposed? Hypothetically speaking of course since if your wagon catches steam, the only other person who is on the lynch trail is Soup currently with half-*** pushes like mine on Kary.

you mean your zero-assed push

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I would be opposed, yes. Neither does it make sense to limit toDay's options that much nor do I see a reason why soup would make a particular good lynch.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

FoS: Rake

how are you fosing me. Someone seriously needs to point out how slots like this are regarded so well because to me kingofkoopa's isnt that much more than a passing thought to me

 

[TheKingofKoopas]

how are you fosing me. Someone seriously needs to point out how slots like this are regarded so well because to me kingofkoopa's isnt that much more than a passing thought to me

You could've asked.
Not only that, I'm pretty sure either Spak or J explained why a while back. I'm on mobile so I can't go find it right now.

 

[Dooms]

I just got back from a tournament weekend with no sleep on Friday. I'll try to get a post up tonight, but if not, there will be one tomorrow.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

i know they did but honestly those reasons are bad and they should feel bad

 

[BarDulL]

I've been out all day, vote count will come tomorrow when I wake up!

 

[#HBC | J]

I would be opposed, yes. Neither does it make sense to limit toDay's options that much nor do I see a reason why soup would make a particular good lynch.

That's such a....political answer to my question.

how are you fosing me. Someone seriously needs to point out how slots like this are regarded so well because to me kingofkoopa's isnt that much more than a passing thought to me

It's not Koopy being regarded well if that's what got you the FoS. Plus if Koopy isn't more than a passing thought to you, why are you voting him? Shouldn't you be voting for who you think is scum?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

That's such a....political answer to my question.

Cool story, bro.

 

[#HBC | J]

Cool story, bro.

Your behavior still amuses me, but let's calm the sass a bit, eh?

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

spak is town. Also, until someone can give me a solid reason not to be voting him thats where my votes going to stay. I'm also voting tHe Man in spirit because that slots done nothing to deserve the pass it's gettng frrom you guy. I honestly don't understand how ryker is getting away with posting once and it was just to join karys cult and everyone's just like "yeah ok"

 

[#HBC | J]

Where has tHe-Man been getting a pass?

He needs to be replaced, but two replacements on D1 is making me sad.

 

[TheKingofKoopas]

spak is town.

Why? You keep being vague until provoked when you have no real reason to be.

I'm also voting tHe Man in spirit because that slots done nothing to deserve the pass it's gettng frrom you guy. I honestly don't understand how ryker is getting away with posting once and it was just to join karys cult and everyone's just like "yeah ok"

We're not. We've been tagging him and now he's probably being replaced.

 

[Kantrip]

Shun Goku Satsu Rake - Do you not have any scum reads at this point? Seems like you think Koopa and tHe-man deserve votes for being underwhelming rather than scummy. You'll need to explain to me why Spak is town yet Koopa is voteworthy.

 

[TheKingofKoopas]

With that said, I think you're scum. You fail to prove how this is a good system and your constant defense of it despite good reasoning shows that you are unwilling to say you are wrong, which is something that I've found as a scum tell for most of my games.

This post is just blegh.

Kary isn't defending the system, as you can see in the quote you posted right above this. It says that grouping together generally doesn't work. Kary was defending his/her (ive seen both pronouns before im sorry) thought process on why the church was set up.

you are unwilling to say you are wrong, which is something that I've found as a scum tell for most of my games.

We literally just had something like this with Kantrip. He didn't think his "scummy" actions were wrong, yet when he explained his thought process, it made more sense to everyone else. Not only that, but I've seen games you were in where Mafia was just fence-sittin a good portion of the game.
Voting Kary for these reasons is just a huge stretch and you know it.
Vote: Spak

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Your behavior still amuses me, but let's calm the sass a bit, eh?

What's YOUR opinion on Joey vs Soup ?

I'm getting a bit sick of you pussyfooting around everything.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

spak is town. Also, until someone can give me a solid reason not to be voting him thats where my votes going to stay. I'm also voting tHe Man in spirit because that slots done nothing to deserve the pass it's gettng frrom you guy. I honestly don't understand how ryker is getting away with posting once and it was just to join karys cult and everyone's just like "yeah ok"

I'm with Koops- why is Spak town? What part of which posts in particular?

You could equally ask how Maven is 'getting away with' not doing anything. Being inactive is not a very strong tell, bro.

 

[Dooms]

Joey, what do you make of Dietz even argreeing with J at all. We all know Dietz never likes J. Obviously this is another scumslip by dietz ala that game he just played in hydra with orbo where he showed the same signs. Agree / Disagree

If I choose agree, do I win the game? I wanna win the game.

And as for you, soup ... grow a ****ing backbone, holy ****.

Replace out imo.

We're playing a game. Stop ruining it.

I disagree with having 5 'strong' town reads already. which would you say are the strongest?

Kantrip > Sang=J >> Koops > Spak

I think you guys seriously need to tone it down with the walls ...

Imma keep it short and say that I can't help but actually like Kantrip at this point. Choosing to not play the walling game anymore was a very, very reasonable move. Could be good scum play but for the time being I feel somewhat confident in throwing him in my townpool for one reason or another.

Choosing not to go into walls only because they ALWAYS (used to?) do it = more than null?

So, now that I actually understand these massive walls:

Well, what's your thought on it now that he made the 180?

There has been literally no context for this. Either this is to tell me to be active or you're actually waiting for me before you say it.

*snooty anime character gasp*

Even if he hasn't stuck to his vote, a vast majority of his play is still townie, and rethinking a subpar vote doesn't change that for me. Also haven't found anything I dislike about his play since then.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Kary was defending his/her (ive seen both pronouns before im sorry) thought process on why the church was set up.

I don't mind one way or the other.