Undertale Mafia, 13 man! Game over! Town wins!

Shun Goku Satsu Rake

Oriwa Rake. Kaizo ko ni oriwa naru
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Kary, you're church should be behind this.

Joey, what do you make of Dietz even argreeing with J at all. We all know Dietz never likes J. Obviously this is another scumslip by dietz ala that game he just played in hydra with orbo where he showed the same signs. Agree / Disagree ?

If tHE-Man continues to not post I will continue to mention that ryker is a tool and should be lynched should it keep up.

Kantrip's response to pressure was nothing special, I feel no better having seen it than I did previously which concerns me because kantrips post was big and long but didn't satisfy any of my curiosity beyond him saying "well i misunderstood" I mean, that's fantastic but what I'm really wondering is why Soup is the one on your wagon kantrip that you have a problem with. If anything it looked like Sang was gonna be taking your heat but you kinda just swerve to soup, and from my pov, if I were you, I'd like Sang's approach last and definitely be on her more than Soup. I want you to explain more why soup's cop out feels that way to you because from my perspective Soup doesn't need to quantify his actions like that as scum and copping himself out only makes it read more genuine to me
 

#HBC | Kary

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Ok bad news guys the church has had to close for the time being. don't worry your donations are in safe hands.

Also my eyes started melting from the stupid unnecessary walls on this page so i'm not completely up to date.

lean town on: Koops, tHE, Sang, Joey, Dietz

I would rather a majority of the thread support the sentiment than Kary wanting to lynch someone and using the proxy votes to instakill anyone who does not follow the Kult of Kary.
please explain to me how you think this would work.

you can't say to embrace you after you vote for kawaii joey though. Like, he's gonn post and probably turn out to be loveable and townie. Tell me who's scum between soup and kantrip
why not both?

it'll depend on how kary responds. I think this cult thing is largely a "Let's see will sheep me, when and how ard" I also want to see how kary reacts to who agress with him because to my mind ryker should be opposed to the idea.
I had this idea to try and run a 'town circle', you know, like you get a voting block of all the more trustworthy/active people and lynch outside of them. this was before the game actually started, mind. unfortunately I don't have the energy to keep up the church gimmick and trying to run town doesn't really fit my playstyle anyways.

I learned approximately nothing from it for what its worth.

Though to answer why I feel he could be the D1 lynch: I just feel most people (maybe even scum) would latch onto Kantrip because of his faulty logic and approach. It really depends on how Kantrip takes it because he reminds me of myself in emotional aspects, but who knows. It's just a wait and see at this point.
you throw him in the ring as a D1 candidate, but your stance is 'who knows' ?

grimy, dislike.

Also, just to tip my hand on this part, I was leaning derp over scum, the way Kantrip approached J especially has no reasonable scum intent to be that backwards, especially because hiss initial reason to not like J, that of shallow questions or whatever was actually wrong. I don't think J was actually entirely just to "see what my logic was", I also took it as J actually holding me to something I was doing. If J were scum in that instance he has no reason to care why I commented, what I commented or even what I'm going to do with it because it didn't effect him personally. For J to go out of his way to ask me, even if its a question he knew i might not answer and a question that is pretty meh looking on it's own still has good intent of wanting to see an answer from me. I feel like J as scum would have just let me say whatever and ignored it. And I think kantrips push on J right now is too backwards to have scum intent to it
not sure what prompted this outpouring of 'thoughts'; atypical from you.

Sang, J, Kantrip, Spak, and Koops are probably my strong town reads in no order.
I disagree with having 5 'strong' town reads already. which would you say are the strongest?

The closest thing I have to a scum read is Soup tbh. His play in regards to Koops didn't show anything legitimate (especially when Koops play at the time was lacking in any scum intent what-so-ever), and his summary of Kantrip's argument is very misinforming and lacking. With the way he has been playing so far, I really can't justify what he has done as scum hunting because of how poorly he has defined his suspicions.
agreed.

2.) Yeah but in that paragraph you weren't really responding to anything that was relevant to the discussion. You just pointed out all the things you thought you should be given pro-town credit for. Hate that you did that.
agreed.

I'm caught up and just need to say before I respond to everything that J's behaviour regarding Rake confounded me so much that I couldn't fathom him honestly needing Rake's answer. That one issue gave me significant confirmation bias when looking at the rest of J's posts and I saw issues that were negligible in reality. After sleeping on it and seeing how J has handled the situation afterwards I must say that he comes out looking the best out of the trio of himself, soup, and Sang. I take full responsibility for not seeing a reason for him questioning Rake the way he did and letting that cloud my judgement on the rest of J's actions.
tone of this post is off. seems too conciliatory. will defer analysis until i've read the rest of this chucklemonkey's posts.
 

Shun Goku Satsu Rake

Oriwa Rake. Kaizo ko ni oriwa naru
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Now, i know you said / mentioned you liked Sang's rationale but that's hionestly a cop out by you. It being "logical" doesn't make it telling so I want you to delve into why Sang's approach read as genuine / whatever it is that made you "like her rationale" because at best to me, you should be "ok " with what she posted and how, but want more than just a "logical reason" do you see what i mean ?
 

#HBC | Kary

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How are you leaning town on tHe-man at all. Seriosuly, give me one good reason as to how that slot deserves anything but a flat null because just no man
I lean town on that one post. Maybe that isn't deserving of a lean town read. Who cares. If they survive the night and or start playing the game we can have an actual conversation about the slot. We both agree you can't have a solid read on them yet so we don't really have anything to discuss.
 
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You can probably ignore my walls if you didn't have a problem with my play prior to them, they're not important except for addressing/amending that. I'm sorry that they're so large and unwieldy.
 
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Kantrip's response to pressure was nothing special, I feel no better having seen it than I did previously which concerns me because kantrips post was big and long but didn't satisfy any of my curiosity beyond him saying "well i misunderstood" I mean, that's fantastic but what I'm really wondering is why Soup is the one on your wagon kantrip that you have a problem with. If anything it looked like Sang was gonna be taking your heat but you kinda just swerve to soup, and from my pov, if I were you, I'd like Sang's approach last and definitely be on her more than Soup. I want you to explain more why soup's cop out feels that way to you because from my perspective Soup doesn't need to quantify his actions like that as scum and copping himself out only makes it read more genuine to me
The only thing I didn't like from Sang was initially saying I could be onto something in voting J and then immediately reversing that when pressed on it. The rest was fine. Why do you think I should dislike Sang the most?

soup's suspicion just doesn't feel genuine like Sang's did, like Sang actually had solid reasoning about the timing of my J vote. soup felt more like he was jumping at the opportunity for an easy wagon when he realize two other people were in sync with the idea (or so he thought). It's even worse that he didn't vote me. Everything he has said since has been absolutely horrid as well.
 
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I like Kary's reads. I think tHe-man doesn't deserve anything but null but I got the slight townie vibes from their first post that Kary mentioned as well and don't really care if they're lumped in with the townreads.
 

#HBC | ѕoup

The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.
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Good luck to Luigi.

I'm not doing this. I'm not having another D1 revolve around me when I'm town and have to spend all my time trying to explain myself. It's not fun. That's not why I play Mafia. I absolutely refuse.
 

Spak

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please explain to me how you think this would work.
Based on your statement, you said:
All this can be yours for one low low payment of becoming my proxy vote.
Based on this, you and whatever allies you have gathered could all hammer an innocent soul of your choosing, or else they must defect from the cult and possibly be next on the hit list. Plus, this whole concept seems like a really sketch way to earn allies and get some people to turn the blind eye from the true Kary.
 

Jdietz43

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Unvote

I'm satisfied with the answers and elaboration on his J feelings from Kantrip here, I can see how you could skew J's posts badly if you came in with a mindset that it was already useless. Vote was still whack ofc
 

Jdietz43

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Kary, you're church should be behind this.

Joey, what do you make of Dietz even argreeing with J at all. We all know Dietz never likes J. Obviously this is another scumslip by dietz ala that game he just played in hydra with orbo where he showed the same signs. Agree / Disagree ?

If tHE-Man continues to not post I will continue to mention that ryker is a tool and should be lynched should it keep up.

Kantrip's response to pressure was nothing special, I feel no better having seen it than I did previously which concerns me because kantrips post was big and long but didn't satisfy any of my curiosity beyond him saying "well i misunderstood" I mean, that's fantastic but what I'm really wondering is why Soup is the one on your wagon kantrip that you have a problem with. If anything it looked like Sang was gonna be taking your heat but you kinda just swerve to soup, and from my pov, if I were you, I'd like Sang's approach last and definitely be on her more than Soup. I want you to explain more why soup's cop out feels that way to you because from my perspective Soup doesn't need to quantify his actions like that as scum and copping himself out only makes it read more genuine to me
Wait real? I actually felt quite a bit better after hearing Kantrip mentally walk through what he was seeing. It didn't seem retro-fitted to fit the situation, which was my chief concern with where the response would go.

 

Jdietz43

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I had this idea to try and run a 'town circle', you know, like you get a voting block of all the more trustworthy/active people and lynch outside of them. this was before the game actually started, mind. unfortunately I don't have the energy to keep up the church gimmick and trying to run town doesn't really fit my playstyle anyways.

I learned approximately nothing from it for what its worth.
(For the record, that literally never works.

Fun to see where you'd go though.)
 

Jdietz43

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Nothing too much to note, "Adam." I will say that right after you post the interaction between Kantrip/J is the most interesting thing thus far. Kantrip's attitude is especially important here and it feels like he's putting up a front with J, which is, coincidentially, more what Kantrip does as town. Outside of the meta realm I'm not seeing much a problem from his responses either way and my vote on him is practically useless at this rate.

unvote

*ahem*

I'll say one thing dear prince, our friends seem to be entangled by their own wits of knowing each other. To what end to the deceivers come clear if someone doesn't speak up? It's troubling, adam. Watching your, no... our men bicker like that with nothing especially coming out of it is disappointing to see. Is my judgment wrong on our fellow Kantrip?
(Though I will say that J/Kantrip doesn't seem partner-esque).
Actually, I do have a bone to pick with Kantrip Kantrip . You never responded to me after I answered you. I'm trying to understand what you're doing and I feel as if you're keeping your cards to yourself. I agree with J that it's weird and I want to know if you disagree/agree with me in regards to my logic.
@Soup
Still waiting for a response on what this flip in opinion through 134,135 ,and 136 was about.

I don't feel qualified to make calls on Soup wagons anymore after last game, but I do still want to hear what this sudden maneuver from unvote Kantrip to Kantrip scum came from.
 

SangfroidWarrior

Smash Journeyman
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Holy walls, Batman (then again, I really don't help with that :| ). This game is shaping up to look like either a headache, a rollercoaster (the good kind), or something inbetween. Either way, apologies for my absence recently. Being an RA can make my life really hectic sometimes, but that's done for a few weeks so I should be good for now. I've skimmed through and will go back through more in-depth tomorrow (evening probably), but here's what I've got so far.

I feel like J as scum would have just let me say whatever and ignored it. And I think kantrips push on J right now is too backwards to have scum intent to it
My brain might just be fried and not working, but could you explain this to me a little bit? What basis do you have for scum!J acting like that versus how he is acting now? Why is too backwards a town thing v a scum thing?

Do you feel like Soup having the same ideas as you and j is coincidental ? Also, how have kantrip's responses to you and his general responses changed your perception of him from when you started looking at him until now ?
So, no, I don't think it's coincidental, to be honest. But, I don't necessarily think it's scummy, just in and of itself. I have to go back through, but it just seems a little odd. Then again, him pointing out that the three of us were in agreement is very odd, but I'm not sure what to make of it besides it being something that makes me wary. Kantrip's responses to me specifically haven't changed my opinion of him (they just repeated what I had already seen of/from him), but his responses to other people and his insistence on playing the game instead of just trying to get himself out of a "hole" have made me start to... re-think my view of his slot, or at least realize that I need to look at him again. I still am not comfortable with him, though.

I want you to explain more why soup's cop out feels that way to you because from my perspective Soup doesn't need to quantify his actions like that as scum and copping himself out only makes it read more genuine to me
Rake, could you explain the bolded part to me?

but I feel like that vote wasn't to contribute to conversation, but rather to try to scare J and shut down conversation.
Spak, could you explain some of this for me? Which conversation, specifically? How is voting J going to scare him? Just, I guess, can you explain your idea of Kantrip's intent through this?

Talk to me about Joey, Ditzy. SangfroidWarrior SangfroidWarrior @tHe-Man@Gheb_01
My opinion of Joey is pretty null, if not leaning town. His posts, while long and wordy, give me a sense of his process and don't really seem like talking just for the sake of talking. In fact, he's one of the reasons I'm rethinking my read on Kantrip. I might try to go more in-depth later, but I'm pretty comfortable with him for the moment.

Kanty ranks up there still regardless of my personal gripes because I am hard-pressed to be comfortable with lynching anyone else.
This post really confuses me (and why there hasn't been much discussion of it). J, with everyone else now posting, do you still hold this intent? If you believe that Kantrip is a town lean (which, IIRC, you do), why are you comfortable with lynching somebody you think could be town?

To expand, who, if not Kantrip, would you want to lynch today?

Why has no one voted him and put their most powerful tool to use?
I'm just gonna explain myself here really quick. First, it was really early on in the Day and I had/have no strong reads either way for anyone. Voting somebody, as you said, is powerful, but I don't like voting unless I'm positive it's what I want to do. Second, I was waiting for Kantrip to continue posting so I could get a stronger read on him, if possible. He had kind of stopped posting and I wanted others' opinions of him as well. (also, I kind of forget how forum mafia works :/ )

Hell, even Soup unvoted instead of voting him yet continues to call him scummy.
This is... a concerning thought.

I don't like this post. Sang said I had a point as if to leave suspecting J as a valid option but then when forced to explain it suddenly "re-reading through it" causes Sang to "realize" I don't have a point after all.
I really apologize for my inability to explain my intent there. This was a moment of clouded thought for me, and I have no real excuse for it besides the fact that I think I'm just suspicious of J in general because of how much of a scary player he can be. As I explained later, it wasn't necessarily that I agree with your vote on him or even just your suspicions of him but more of realizing something that I should keep an eye out for in the future.

Anyway, I'll try to get to more and be more proactive tomorrow.
 

~ Gheb ~

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I think you guys seriously need to tone it down with the walls ...

Imma keep it short and say that I can't help but actually like Kantrip at this point. Choosing to not play the walling game anymore was a very, very reasonable move. Could be good scum play but for the time being I feel somewhat confident in throwing him in my townpool for one reason or another.

:059:
 

~ Gheb ~

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And as for you, soup ... grow a ****ing backbone, holy ****.

Good luck to Luigi.

I'm not doing this. I'm not having another D1 revolve around me when I'm town and have to spend all my time trying to explain myself. It's not fun. That's not why I play Mafia. I absolutely refuse.
Actually. Hold on.

BarDulL BarDulL I retract that Replace out. I wanna stay in. I just need a moment.
Replace out imo.

:059:
 

#HBC | J

Prince of DGamesia
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J, with everyone else now posting, do you still hold this intent? If you believe that Kantrip is a town lean (which, IIRC, you do), why are you comfortable with lynching somebody you think could be town?

To expand, who, if not Kantrip, would you want to lynch today?
No, I don't think Kanty is a good lynch for toDay's sake. I have a bigger pile of people who I would lynch toDay the more people post actually which is funny to me. The reason I made that post is because I am not sold 100% on Kanty and he is the only lynch from my perspective that I could be wrong on and be scum or I could be slightly right on and lead to a paper trail that solves the game quicker.

Who do I want to lynch toDay? Still up in the air honestly, but so far, I'm okay with keeping you alive so my vote is misplaced on you.

Unvote
 

#HBC | J

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I would not say hard town, but not someone I am looking at to investigate with the remainder of the day. I do agree that I like his explained processes of why he is not on me, but something bugs me about how he came in and just folded his cards. I don't know I have mixed feelings on Kanty, but I will say that I would be uncomfortable with lynching him above maybe 4 names for toDay's sake.

Slight town vibes. Not a town lean though.
 

Maven89

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Request replacement

Sorry yall, turns out I'm more burned out on mafia then I thought, going to have to take a break. Really thought I could play this game with holidays here and being burned out I just don't have the time or motivation. Sorry guys
 

Spak

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Spak, could you explain some of this for me? Which conversation, specifically? How is voting J going to scare him? Just, I guess, can you explain your idea of Kantrip's intent through this?
I tend to do a stream of consciousness thing when I write and the thought of using OMGUS to scare someone popped into my mind, so I wrote "try to scare J and shut down conversation" because J was still one of the most active slots (effectively shutting down conversation). Then, after that, I was like, no that's not right because Kantrip knows J isn't scared of pretty much anything in Mafia, so it couldn't be scaring J. After that, I looked at what At the end of the day, I decided I was hyper-analyzing an OMGUS and called it suspicious. I've liked his more recent posts and feel like he's being truthful and genuine with his thought processes, so he's currently nullish/weak scum lean
I had this idea to try and run a 'town circle', you know, like you get a voting block of all the more trustworthy/active people and lynch outside of them. this was before the game actually started, mind. unfortunately I don't have the energy to keep up the church gimmick and trying to run town doesn't really fit my playstyle anyways.

I learned approximately nothing from it for what its worth.
You get a voting block of all the more trustworthy/active people and lynch outside of them... Sounds like an easy win if a scum gets in, until it is down to the last however many people enter the Kult of Kary. It's extremely unlikely that all of the scum were in the Kult (that would be WAY too much association), but I think it's very possible one of the people who tried to enter the Kult (or Kary) is scum. How could you come up with this idea, make a full, flavorful post about it, go on with creating the Kult, add members who requested entry, continue to and analyze the Kult after you disbanded it without seeing that there was no possible way for this group to be in favor of town?
 

#HBC | Kary

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OK then, please enlighten me; how could your organization benefit town?
Well, I am town. So if I can get people to follow my vote, that means there are more people voting as though they were townie.

You seem to think that starting a sub-group within the game is somehow more open to exploitation than the game itself is. Of course there is potential for scum to abuse the system. But it could also help townies to work together. In the end it works exactly the same as the game itself, and the end result is null - which is why it never really works out.
 
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