Undertale Mafia, 13 man! Game over! Town wins!

#HBC | ѕoup

The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.
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Sassy I'll attest to. I've been having wine tonight and being more vocal in that regard. I'm also just happier due to being very stress free which could translate to sassiness when it isn't.

I was trying to force a read from you in order to start a paper trail and to also to fish where your head is at since this is the only thing of note to happen in the game so far.

Why do you think he would be the D1 lynch if he continued down this path? I am not seeing scum-intent yet besides more derp-intent and I doubt I'll push this avenue any harder than I have been barring his responses to my questions. A little pressure on my slot is no problem though I will say that his vote hasn't really netted what he was probably hoping.
If this is to me, tell me what you think of my side of the argument unless you simply can't see it.
 

#HBC | ѕoup

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Though to answer why I feel he could be the D1 lynch: I just feel most people (maybe even scum) would latch onto Kantrip because of his faulty logic and approach. It really depends on how Kantrip takes it because he reminds me of myself in emotional aspects, but who knows. It's just a wait and see at this point.

But yeah, views on Kantrip.
 

SangfroidWarrior

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Soup, correct me if I'm wrong, but are you leaning scum on Kantrip as well?

J, why do you see this as derp intent instead of scum? I know it's early in the game, but do you have any reads currently?
 

#HBC | ѕoup

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Soup, correct me if I'm wrong, but are you leaning scum on Kantrip as well?

J, why do you see this as derp intent instead of scum? I know it's early in the game, but do you have any reads currently?
Yeah. I'm leaning scum on Kantrip until further notice.
 

#HBC | J

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I do agree with you that Kanty instigated the conversation and it seemed misplaced. I will also agree that Kanty seemed to try and shut down the conversation between Rake and myself before it even happened which was weird in of itself. Your other stuff I have already posted/agreed to and mirrors my thought process.

SangfroidWarrior SangfroidWarrior I see more derp-intent because of the fashion he has been pushing me. It's been backwards where he hasn't questioned my slot nor let anything happen really and then he comes in and votes me for reasons that don't add up to what has happened in the thread (which we 3 have presented already). I currently have no strong reads that I feel comfortable with sharing at the current time. Could I tickle your ear as to why you see him as more scum-intent then derp?
 

SangfroidWarrior

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J, that's fair. As for my read, it might just be that there's no other person to really go off of currently, but it also just seems so contrived. While I could see this as just innocent towny, I really don't see him doing anything that is helping the game/the town. I've already somewhat mentioned this, but his questioning of you wasn't really questioning, and it dropped off and then he created suspicion off of it. It's somewhat opportunistic, like pretending to be doing something without really doing it.

I think I might sign off for the night with this, though, unless you all have any more questions for me. I want more people to come in and give their input (especially those that we haven't heard anything from yet) before I move forward with anything.
 

~ Gheb ~

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Sorry to disturb your threesome masturbation party but I gotta say that ... I agree with everything Kantrip said so far. The only thing I wouldn't subscribe to is his vote on J, for now at least. Even if he didn't 'genuinely' want to know what Rake was on about I don't see how it's a scummy thing to ask.

J, what's the point of your 1.) in post #145 though?

:059:
 

Shun Goku Satsu Rake

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Why does how Kary responds affect the nature of you asking two different people to call one of me/soup scum?
I was only answering about the Kary question, I'm holding my cards closer to my chest on explaining you and soup because right now you're activly around and soup isn't so there's no point to elaborating just so one of you can read it and try to change just yet
 

Shun Goku Satsu Rake

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Also, just to tip my hand on this part, I was leaning derp over scum, the way Kantrip approached J especially has no reasonable scum intent to be that backwards, especially because hiss initial reason to not like J, that of shallow questions or whatever was actually wrong. I don't think J was actually entirely just to "see what my logic was", I also took it as J actually holding me to something I was doing. If J were scum in that instance he has no reason to care why I commented, what I commented or even what I'm going to do with it because it didn't effect him personally. For J to go out of his way to ask me, even if its a question he knew i might not answer and a question that is pretty meh looking on it's own still has good intent of wanting to see an answer from me. I feel like J as scum would have just let me say whatever and ignored it. And I think kantrips push on J right now is too backwards to have scum intent to it
 

Shun Goku Satsu Rake

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Lol. Alright then Gheb. I was asking if there was anything else besides that but I'm not in the mood to deal with that right now.

Kantrip, you can facilitate people interacting without it focusing on you, but I understand where you're coming from. As for the second thing, that's definitely not how it seemed like it to me. As I said, it just seemed like you were attempting to shut down a conversation, both of J and Rake along with J and you.
Do you feel like Soup having the same ideas as you and j is coincidental ? Also, how have kantrip's responses to you and his general responses changed your perception of him from when you started looking at him until now ?
 

Spak

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I've already somewhat mentioned this, but his questioning of you wasn't really questioning, and it dropped off and then he created suspicion off of it.
I thought his line of questioning with Koops was pretty legit, he was asking all of the questions I was thinking while I was reading through the earlier part of the thread. I'm still concerned about the OMGUS regarding J though, that seemed a bit sudden for a vote. He will probably argue it was to get us out of RVS, and that has townie motives, but I feel like that vote wasn't to contribute to conversation, but rather to try to scare J and shut down conversation. I know that Kantrip knows that scaring J isn't a thing that is accomplished that easily, though, so provoking J like that may have been intending to boost thread activity?

I guess it's possible that the vote was intended to boost activity, but I think that vote is still a fairly large red flag.

And I think kantrips push on J right now is too backwards to have scum intent to it
I don't think Kantrip has been back since the voting post, so he wouldn't have had an opportunity to continue the push or back down. Also, I have no clue how Kantrip normally plays because the last time I played with him, he was coasting scum.
Do you feel like Soup having the same ideas as you and j is coincidental ? Also, how have kantrip's responses to you and his general responses changed your perception of him from when you started looking at him until now ?
They could all just have the same opinion on things, but I agree that it's odd 3 people are so in-sync with each-other. I wouldn't group Soup with either of them if they were to flip scum, however, because Soup generally doesn't like to agree with his scummates in-thread; it adds to possible association.
 

TheKingofKoopas

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Unvote
Finished all of my finals, now in the process of packing to go back home and playing Undertale. RIP Doggo.

J vs Kantrip seemed like a TvT until Kant's vote. That entire post looked more like he was just trying to divert attention away rather than trying to be accusatory. J doesn't seem like he's asking questions that would become dead-ends, more like they happen to be dead ends. Consider my suspicions cast.

I guess it's possible that the vote was intended to boost activity, but I think that vote is still a fairly large red flag.
When there was already enough activity going on and J was already trying to tag the quiet members? I honestly doubt it.


@#HBC | Kary , Jdietz43 Jdietz43 , Maven, and Joey, what're your opinions on J v K?
Kary, what do you think about your "subordinates" that joined you, especially the first half of tHe-Man?


tHe-Man tHe-Man So Adam, lets get you off Grayskull and back to Earth. I've benched press the entirety of my Koopa Troopas before, I doubt you could even lift a Shy Guy. :4bowser:
I'm assuming by your post from before that you feel Soup is more Town than anyone else. What're your reads on everyone?
 

Dooms

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I still think it's far from the best game ever, though. GameFAQs has lost all of the (admittedly small amount of) credibility it had left. There's no way it should have won against Mass Effect, Fallout 3, Super Mario World, Pokemon Red/Blue, Super Mario Bros 64, or Melee. Also, the poll was badly seeded and they shouldn't have allowed more than one game per franchise.
While I'm not informed about Mass Effect or Fallout 3, Undertale beating Super Mario World and Red/Blue isn't very surprising imo. Once you remove nostalgia from the prior, the story in Undertale can definitely be up for debate to beat those games. :x

I'd like to welcome you all to the great and wondrous
Church of the One True Kary


You, yes you, could find your way into warmth, security, comfort and belonging-- and be free from the dread of the gallows or the knife of the sinner. If you only pledge your allegiance to the One True Kary, she will watch over and protect you, the most righteous of townies, and yours will be a life truly blessed.

All this can be yours for one low low payment of becoming my proxy vote. That's right! All you have to do is vote how I tell you to, and in that instant you will feel a great weight lift from your shoulders, as the struggles and toils of this earth are done away with by the light of my grace. You will also receive a collectible membership badge worth $2 (P&P $5).

Why delay? Follow Kary today! I'm warning you!
Oh great. Another church I can't join. Thanks, homosexuality. :|

First step, Joey shall play the game.


you can't say to embrace you after you vote for kawaii joey though. Like, he's gonn post and probably turn out to be loveable and townie. Tell me who's scum between soup and kantrip
~swoon~ <3 <3

Lol @ first J and Kantrip conversation. Top notch mafia boyzzz

---------------

Quite a boring day thus far. Have to say that RVS is my least favorite phase of the game and how I always try to break out of it as soon as possible, so let's try to despite me admittingly not having much to talk about.

To start off, I think more often than not people start to develop reads even from one or two posts from a player, and that's basically where I'm at right now. I have very minor feeling towards people even based on tone or differences in their approach to the game thus far. I think KingOfKoopas seems a bit more outspoken from the other game he was in, which makes somewhat suspect him in a shallow way that I'm sure some bighead will tell me about. I think Kary probably has a dumb restriction. I think Rake's first post is odd but in a townie way because it feels a lot more forced than his usual approach of playing like he always has a lead when he really doesn't. Everyone else have much less of a feeling about or simply didn't grab my attention enough to note it.

Let us unify our small feelings into one big collective feeling and start this game right instead of one or two people turning it into a pissing contest.
Soup diving headfirst into the game with subpar reads based on meta. Not a fan if he keeps this read going for whatever reason.

Point here being that I felt Koops was a little less inclined to make idle comments like he has that I don't really feel are necessary.
Soup continues to dive straight into the ground.

What do you make of Kanty's insistence with his questioning of Koopy about Kary, but not really talking to Kary yet?
Why exactly was this asked? The intent behind what Kantrip was doing seemed pretty clear to me. I also don't understand why he would ask Kary these questions instead when he was trying to get more information from Koops and Kary wasn't really past RVS at that point?

I dunno about Spak. I guess I don't really have a problem with him coming across a bit more laid back than usual but that whole gamefaqs story he was talking about really looks like ... he's trying a bit too hard? That may not be the right way to put it but I can't find any better word for it atm. He really just seemed to mention it for the sake of looking like he's taking things super easy and I don't remember him that way.

:059:
Is this RVS or is this an actual opinion? I'm not sure if you're only talking about this because of the small amount of content at the time or if you think this can actually lead to something.

I was attempting to call J out for asking a rhetorical question because it looked pointless and like it would lead nowhere. I still hold this opinion, but when I asked J about it he insisted that he thinks Rake can give him an answer that will satisfy him. Rather than continue to push the issue I decided to just let him wait for Rake's answer.

That's not to say I'm satisfied, but rather I'm not going to get anywhere banging my head against a wall so I'll wait for Rake to answer J before I proceed.
Am I the only one that thinks Kantrip's intent is super clear so far?

It just really feels like he's willing to ask questions of the same caliber for other people but, when it comes to Rake he was willing to shut it down as basically "Rake being Rake"
Rake has been giving me interesting vibes just because, even with as much he's posting, I can't really tell where his head is at.
You kind of summarized why Kantrip reacted the way he did imo. Rake is going to post a lot of stuff and it's going to be hard to dig through it to get an accurate read. At least that's how I interpreted it.

His argument pretty much boils down to 'J did something that J might've not done as town' and I don't really feel like that's a reasonable or logical approach here.
Where are you getting this summarization?

-----------------

I don't agree with Kantirp's J vote (nor do I agree in regards to J's questions aside from the one directed at Rake that started Kantrip's thoughts towards J), but I understand why he did it. Kantrip's a town read for me.

Sang, J, Kantrip, Spak, and Koops are probably my strong town reads in no order.

In regards to J v Kantrip, it's definitely TvT to me, but not because of the debate itself if that makes sense? J's posts in the debate aren't... very telling to say the least. It kinda comes across as him trying to get the higher ground in the debate than anything else, which is pretty null imo. Kantrip, on the other hand, screams townie because his intent is very clear. A lot of what he has done so far is very easy to explain from a townie's perspective. This is also how I feel about J outside of the debate.

Rake is probably the only town-lean outside of those I have at the moment. His posts after his questions kinda just give me a townie vibe, and this is definitely a gut read lol.

Everyone else not listed and who isn't Soup is 100% null.

The closest thing I have to a scum read is Soup tbh. His play in regards to Koops didn't show anything legitimate (especially when Koops play at the time was lacking in any scum intent what-so-ever), and his summary of Kantrip's argument is very misinforming and lacking. With the way he has been playing so far, I really can't justify what he has done as scum hunting because of how poorly he has defined his suspicions.

Vote: Soup

Hi guys~ Did you miss my walls?
 

#HBC | ѕoup

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I understand that it was RVS. However, the problem is that your play didn't get better. :v
If you're going to make accusations based around RVS then you're only looking at my "play" from an RVS standpoint. You posted two quotes from me which were early into the game and then said my Kantrip read was misinforming or whatever you want to call it. I think this is matter of you not having the same opinion of me more than anything. How can you town-read J/Sang, especially sang, who practically mirrored my thoughts on Kantrip?
 

#HBC | ѕoup

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Furthermore, you cherrypicked the whole thing based one statement I made. What about my #156? You need to do your homework instead of just showing up looking like you have results Joey.
 

#HBC | ѕoup

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In regards to J v Kantrip, it's definitely TvT to me, but not because of the debate itself if that makes sense? J's posts in the debate aren't... very telling to say the least. It kinda comes across as him trying to get the higher ground in the debate than anything else, which is pretty null imo. Kantrip, on the other hand, screams townie because his intent is very clear. A lot of what he has done so far is very easy to explain from a townie's perspective. This is also how I feel about J outside of the debate.
Sang, J, Kantrip, Spak, and Koops are probably my strong town reads in no order.
What the hell am I reading. How can J be null yet town at the same time? I understand you think that his actions can be explained from a townie perspective but those actions alone are in such debate and you called them null. That doesn't make sense? Not liking Joey's start of the game as it's not thorough and even feels a bit rushed, and I hope he can get to my other qualms.
 

Dooms

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I can have a town read and think that specific posts aren't telling of alignment, Soup. The posts I have town read J from aren't related to his debate with Kantrip, as from what I got of the debate, most of the debate was him trying to get higher ground and simply defend his spot. That's not very telling of alignment.

Sang is way more clear with her intent and doesn't say things like what I quoted in regards to you. She also has other posts that gave me strong town vibes such as 140, 122, and 101. You two aren't comparable in the slightest aside from one read.

I don't agree with your read on Kantrip of course, but how you've handled the game for the most part has been suspicious regardless. Your 156 doesn't clear you summarizing his vote in such a mis-leading way. I have no reason to pick out your 156 if it doesn't define why "His argument pretty much boils down to 'J did something that J might've not done as town." was stated, which is the suspicious statement I was referring to in the first place.
 

Spak

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Jdietz43 Jdietz43 I know you like to coast scum based on our masquerade interactions, and because of that knowledge, your lack of thread presence right now concerns me. What are your thoughts on the current state of things?
 

Jdietz43

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Funnily enough, I find him to be the exact opposite of you right now. I kinda feel like Spak being more relaxed is better in his case because if we were to bring up meta in this scenario, he tends to be a bit more thorough in approach.
Can to elaborate? I was just scum with him in your game and I don't see anything so far that would make me say that he's playing any different than how he started both our game and all previous games.

Who is this "the man"? You boys can call me Adam. ;)




I am the prince of Eternia, as such, I shall lead my people.
Since our nation is young and growing, using our still abundant resources I shall make it prosper.

First step, Joey shall play the game. Engaging Joey in the game guarantees me either a good head for town-side or a good starting point towards finding Skeletor and his evil minions.

Afterwards, we will take a look at J. J has been a good citizen of Castle Greyskull, and his unexpected participation to the early cultivation of our civilization has been noticed and received well. However, considering J's track record, I will go the extra mile to ensure this behavior stays in line.

As for the last part of our plan, we shall lead the offense on Gheb for old time's sake. The curmudgeon will be judged for all eyes to see.

Towards the final stage of our plan, all men are to report back to the castle gates. I shall instruct you of the next part of Castle Greyskull's bright future.

Soup, since Duncan is m.i.a., I will have you be our Man-At-Arms, but first let's level. Regarding everything you have discussed, has anything been solid and if so, what has? If the purpose was to get out of RVS, then feel free to follow your prince. The drought is over.

Vote: Jdietz

Ps Rake, you couldn't lynch me if I tied the noose for you.
You're already RVS voting me, there a reason for your re-do or are you just re-entering the game as the other side of the hydra?


Nothing too much to note, "Adam." I will say that right after you post the interaction between Kantrip/J is the most interesting thing thus far. Kantrip's attitude is especially important here and it feels like he's putting up a front with J, which is, coincidentially, more what Kantrip does as town. Outside of the meta realm I'm not seeing much a problem from his responses either way and my vote on him is practically useless at this rate.

unvote

*ahem*

I'll say one thing dear prince, our friends seem to be entangled by their own wits of knowing each other. To what end to the deceivers come clear if someone doesn't speak up? It's troubling, adam. Watching your, no... our men bicker like that with nothing especially coming out of it is disappointing to see. Is my judgment wrong on our fellow Kantrip?
I don't get why you're unvoting Kantrip here. J and Sangfroid have brought up legitimate concern about his play to address on how he's handling thread and you say it's town and unvote. But you're still asking tHe-Man about it afterwards, and then a few posts later you say you do have problems with him:
Actually, I do have a bone to pick with @Kantrip. You never responded to me after I answered you. I'm trying to understand what you're doing and I feel as if you're keeping your cards to yourself. I agree with J that it's weird and I want to know if you disagree/agree with me in regards to my logic.
I don't get the instant switch here, though I agree on the direction you've changed to. What prompted the 180 after the unvote?
(trying not to repeat "another mafia game" here on not understanding Soup posts at all, but I don't get why you put your foot in your mouth on your first post so quick)
 

Jdietz43

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Sang, do you honestly think Rake asking "soup which one of you and kantrip is scum" is a question of the same caliber as questions that other people have asked? Do you think he thinks it's of the same caliber? I can answer that for you. No. It's one of his rapid fire questions that he asks just to get a reaction that he can work with, and I think everyone knows that at this point. Including J. J asking Rake for clarification on why Rake asked such a question reads very off to me because I know that J knows the answer already.

So my interaction with J was not an attempt to shut down Rake's question, but an attempt to understand if J was serious about needing clarification from Rake or if he was asking a rhetorical, finger-pointy question. Honestly, his post looked to me like the latter.

Knowing that it was not, and that he genuinely wanted Rake to explain his question, worries me. Add that to the fact that J's questions thus far have seemed very dead-end compared to those of Rake, soup, or even myself, and I would say there's reason to be concerned.

Even Rake was fine with my side of the interaction because he knows as well as anyone that what I said about the question was true. Knowing this, I don't like J's reaction to my call-out because it reads as very disingenuous. All that said,

Vote: J
That's cool. But why didn't you talk to J to clarify at all before voting then? You didn't even ask him why he wanted to talk to Rake, you just assumed you knew the answer. You talked to everyone else but J (Soup/Sang/Rake).

I don't agree that any of J's questions have been "dead-ends", even the Rake one. IMO the intent to get Rake to interact and speak about the game instead of making one liners was pretty clear even if rhetorically phrased. What's wrong with trying to get Rake to take responsibility instead of quipping and walking away?
 

Jdietz43

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SangfroidWarrior SangfroidWarrior I see more derp-intent because of the fashion he has been pushing me. It's been backwards where he hasn't questioned my slot nor let anything happen really and then he comes in and votes me for reasons that don't add up to what has happened in the thread (which we 3 have presented already). I currently have no strong reads that I feel comfortable with sharing at the current time. Could I tickle your ear as to why you see him as more scum-intent then derp?
I feel like these are exactly the opposite reasons of why we'd want to let him be though? This seems like a good time to continue, not stop.
 

Jdietz43

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Sorry to disturb your threesome masturbation party but I gotta say that ... I agree with everything Kantrip said so far. The only thing I wouldn't subscribe to is his vote on J, for now at least. Even if he didn't 'genuinely' want to know what Rake was on about I don't see how it's a scummy thing to ask.

J, what's the point of your 1.) in post #145 though?

:059:
Does that vote tell you anything though? To disagree with it, you must have some kind of opinion on it no?


Also, just to tip my hand on this part, I was leaning derp over scum, the way Kantrip approached J especially has no reasonable scum intent to be that backwards, especially because hiss initial reason to not like J, that of shallow questions or whatever was actually wrong. I don't think J was actually entirely just to "see what my logic was", I also took it as J actually holding me to something I was doing. If J were scum in that instance he has no reason to care why I commented, what I commented or even what I'm going to do with it because it didn't effect him personally. For J to go out of his way to ask me, even if its a question he knew i might not answer and a question that is pretty meh looking on it's own still has good intent of wanting to see an answer from me. I feel like J as scum would have just let me say whatever and ignored it. And I think kantrips push on J right now is too backwards to have scum intent to it
I feel like again, this is the opposite reasons to just drop something. If Kantrip had pushed J some and interacted with him before plopping down that misguided vote maybe, but the way it went down it looks more like a vote for the sake of voting. No followup or startup, just a vote and some reasoning that could've been cleared up in a few minutes time. It makes me feel like he's voting for the sake of voting something that was never intended to go anywhere.
 

#HBC | J

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I feel like these are exactly the opposite reasons of why we'd want to let him be though? This seems like a good time to continue, not stop.
Then my question to you is how is it scummy and just not smart? Where should the continuation occur when dealing with Kanty until he comes back and responds even though it's been a full day and no response.
 

#HBC | J

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It makes me feel like he's voting for the sake of voting something that was never intended to go anywhere.
This is a very fair point and one I can think a majority of us are agreeing to. However, it's coming down to whether see that vote as a scummy action or a backwards one. We've got no one agreeing with it currently, but a lot of talk about the action of the vote.

I can see where someone would think the opinion is scummy, but there is also the other side of the coin which is just backwards/derpy as myself/Rake have pointed out. On the other side we have yourself/Sang/kind of Soup-Koopy saying that it is scummy. Then we have middle ground people like Gheb/Joey who are like "I like Kanty, but disagree with his vote."

But you got me re-looking at Joey's post:

screams townie because his intent is very clear. A lot of what he has done so far is very easy to explain from a townie's perspective.
Oy, let's keep the blanket statements to a minimum. What about his intent "screams" townie? What "a lot" is "very easy" to explain from a town PoV? You are the first person to hold these strong stances on Kanty being that townie, yet you failed to put him in your strong town pile of Sang/J/Koopy/Sparky.
 

Jdietz43

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I thought his line of questioning with Koops was pretty legit, he was asking all of the questions I was thinking while I was reading through the earlier part of the thread. I'm still concerned about the OMGUS regarding J though, that seemed a bit sudden for a vote. He will probably argue it was to get us out of RVS, and that has townie motives, but I feel like that vote wasn't to contribute to conversation, but rather to try to scare J and shut down conversation. I know that Kantrip knows that scaring J isn't a thing that is accomplished that easily, though, so provoking J like that may have been intending to boost thread activity?

I guess it's possible that the vote was intended to boost activity, but I think that vote is still a fairly large red flag.


I don't think Kantrip has been back since the voting post, so he wouldn't have had an opportunity to continue the push or back down. Also, I have no clue how Kantrip normally plays because the last time I played with him, he was coasting scum.

They could all just have the same opinion on things, but I agree that it's odd 3 people are so in-sync with each-other. I wouldn't group Soup with either of them if they were to flip scum, however, because Soup generally doesn't like to agree with his scummates in-thread; it adds to possible association.
Let's let Kantrip explain his own vote when he returns instead of making guesses. It will go farther.

Then my question to you is how is it scummy and just not smart? Where should the continuation occur when dealing with Kanty until he comes back and responds even though it's been a full day and no response.
I don't see a followthrough to it (and myself am having trouble seeing how he could come to the conclusion), that's enough reason for me to ask. If he actually thought you were scum for what you said, where was he going to go with that case without drumming up some convo with you and elaborating on your intent? If he doesn't believe in a case he's making then that's no bueno.

As far as continuation, I mean ideally if he doesn't show he'll be replaced. But I think absolutely asking him more on how and why he jumped to J-scum and getting him to elaborate is step #1.
 

Jdietz43

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This is a very fair point and one I can think a majority of us are agreeing to. However, it's coming down to whether see that vote as a scummy action or a backwards one. We've got no one agreeing with it currently, but a lot of talk about the action of the vote.

I can see where someone would think the opinion is scummy, but there is also the other side of the coin which is just backwards/derpy as myself/Rake have pointed out. On the other side we have yourself/Sang/kind of Soup-Koopy saying that it is scummy. Then we have middle ground people like Gheb/Joey who are like "I like Kanty, but disagree with his vote."

But you got me re-looking at Joey's post:



Oy, let's keep the blanket statements to a minimum. What about his intent "screams" townie? What "a lot" is "very easy" to explain from a town PoV? You are the first person to hold these strong stances on Kanty being that townie, yet you failed to put him in your strong town pile of Sang/J/Koopy/Sparky.
That's fair, but the bottom line is people giving it a pass isn't going to solve it for the rest of us. If he's dumb, we should find out from him while we can, not late. All this talk of waving it away is concerning me. (I'm re-living Kaladin L-1 votes, yeah?)
 
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