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Just to add something here:What is the best way to approach a Zelda that plans on staying back and Up Smashing or using Forward Air?
I can't win if I pull out a grenade against my opponent since he'll just dins and explode it and if I pull it out I can't seem to mortar slide away in time.
Congratulations. You are going to make many guys think twice about their sexuality for asking that question.why is snake so sexy?
Because he contains a unique blend of metallic gear solidity and captain falconiness with a twist of uber-manly and just a touch of mullet sexiness.why is snake so sexy?
Er... Which one? Why is snake so sexy? Or have you seen his package in MGS2?lol, I love this question
Alright, after some testing this information is completely false. I can get out of either attack about 90% by pressing up on both the control and cstick.With regard to DI against Pikachu and ROB I have found that smash DI is helpful if done correctly. Above all, remember that DI can be treated like a force vector, so DIing in the opposite directions with the C-stick and the control stick will accomplish very little (it will never result in multi-directional DI like some people think). Therefore it is important to note that you should be consistent in your DI direction.
Against Pikachu your DI should be more sideways than up. At low percentages the down smash will often be followed by a thunder when you are popped up into the air, resulting in an early kill. To avoid this you should DI away from Pikachu's center of mass; since the down smash makes you rotate around Pika, you should DI each hit of this move in the opposite direction that you DI'ed the hit before. I have found that repeatedly DIing each hit of the move as it hits you is the most effective method for getting out of the move early (very rare) or at least not being set up for thunder juggling. Thus, if you start getting sucked in on the left, DI the first hit to the left (both the control stick and the C-stick) and then immediately DI the second hit to the right (since you will be on Pikachu's right side).
With regard to ROB's down smash, your DI should be diagonally away from ROB and up. Mash shield so that you can air dodge as soon as you get out of the move. This move is easier to get out of than Pikachu's and also is less of a setup move than Pikachu's down smash. At higher percentages you should DI more horizontally away from ROB to avoid the star KO
Would it be safe to DI up on pika's dsmash? Does it place you directly in the way of thunder?Alright, after some testing this information is completely false. I can get out of either attack about 90% by pressing up on both the control and cstick.
andI'm being very serious when I ask these questions, so the more in-depth a response you can muster the more I'd appreciate it. Thanks in advance.
1. Does Snake have the upper hand against Metaknight? If so, why? If not, why?
2. Currently my counter for Snake is Olimar. Will that suffice? Why or why not?
3. Should I pick up another counter for Snake as well as keeping Olimar? Should I just drop Olimar and pick up another counter entirely?
4. Who counters Snake well? Why and which one should I pick up for high levels of competitive play?
EDIT:
To be general, what is the deal with DI in this game?
What I know:
-DIing with the control stick perpendicular to initial trajectory will give you the best results.
-You can tap the control stick repeatedly to DI out of multiple hit attacks
What's the deal with "Smash DI" and C-Stick Tap DI and dual stick DI and whatever the hell else in this game? I'm very confused.
Hey thanks man, I'm glad that you like the stuff I post. Thanks for taking the time to check my answers, it's good for me too because I play a really good pika and his down smash is a ***** to get out of.Thor, I just have to say you are one of the greatest contributors to the Snake forum.
Does it work better if you press directly left or right? Or, should the DI be in a more diagonal position. (Top right/Top left)And now the general question:
The best DI is done in the direction perpendicular to your character's flight. C-Stick/Smash DI is DI using the C-Stick and it functions in the same way as DI with the control stick. Dual stick DI is DI with both the C-stick and the control stick at the same time; this can be done in different directions but the best result are achieved when both are pressed in the same direction. The best way to DI an attack is to DI perpendicular to the expected flightpath at the same instant at which you are hit with both the C-stick and the control stick.
I hope this helped.
Well, DI directly opposite of the direction you're headed in (as you said in your example) is not going to have as much of a significant effect in terms of movement. DI in a perpendicular direction, in your case, northwest or southeast, and towards the corner of the stage, is much more effective because your character can actually move in that direction quicker than it can recover from being knocked away and moving in the opposite direction.Yeah, you covered it. Thanks, man.
Actually, lemme ask one more thing...
Let's say you got hit diagonally up to the right. I thought DI'ing down and left was the most efficient way of DI'ing in that situation. Could you or someone else correct me? I never knew what was the best way of doing it. I've been doing the same thing since the n64 version of Smash.
Perhaps it is because getting sent left or right has a greater window for the player (not necessarily Snake) to DI. The goal of DI is usually to influence your character in a direction perpendicular to the direction you are sent. That's why most people who DI correctly survive when flying towards the "corners" of a stage, so-to-speak, because that is the greatest distance from the center.
So maybe since utilt sends Snake closer to a 90 degree angle, it will take a longer time for the character to move to the "corner area" when attempting to DI down+towards stage.
However, an attack to the sides, say fsmash, doesn't send Snake as close to a 180 degree angle, in fact, it often sends Snake at an angle close to the direction towards a "corner". Thus the DI (in this case it would be up+towards stage)is more effective since you reach the corner quicker.
Just my theory and I'm not sure if I worded it well enough to make sense.
Yup quite clear. Heck it's clearer to me than my post lol. Thanks for that T*H*O*R.Ok I'm pretty sure that I understand what rusty is saying and I can explain it in case it was unclear (I thought it was quite clear but since he suggested it might not be, why leave it to chance?)
If you picture the map (including the areas outside of your view near the edge of the stage) as a rectangle, your goal is to travel the furthest distance from where you were hit without going off the edge of the stage and dying. Since the furthest point from almost anywhere on the stage is usually the corner, DI should be used to slow your momentum while directing your general motion towards the corner of the stage. Thus, your DI will both slow you down and make your flight as long as possible, allowing you to live longer. It just so happens that simple geometry and vector addition with forces shows that the most efficient means of doing this is to apply a constant force perpendicular to your velocity vector.
Your advice is greatly appreciated. Thank you.Ok I now want to address the questions that Kashakunaki had.
and
First the Snake related questions:
And now the general question:
- Snake does indeed have the edge over Metaknight for a couple of reasons. The most important of these is that Metaknight has no projectiles which makes him very vulnerable, not only to Snake's superb camping game, but also to his grenade countering (since Metaknight attacks with all physical attacks which detonate the grenades in his face). A cautious and defensive Snake can defeat Metaknight by forcing him to approach and then punishing his advances with grenade countering, the forward tilts, and his awesome vertical KO power in the form of the up tilt. If the Snake user keeps some space between Metaknight and himself, all the while pressuring him with mortars, grenades, tilts, and grabs, he should be able to outmatch the close ranged Metaknight and win. The difficulty with this matchup (in case you were wondering why this sounded so much easier than it really is) is Snake's heavy weight and consequent propensity to being easily juggled. Snake's weak air game is highlighted by the strength of Metaknight's air game as well as his comfort in the air (he has five jumps, a glide, and every B move can be used for recovery). Snake's gimpable recovery, combined with his fast falling and low aerial priority make him a sitting duck in the air and makes any more aerially adept character water at the mouth when he is airborne. However, if you manage to stay grounded and maintain proper spacing, this match should end up in your favor
- In my opinion, a well played Olimar will counter all but the best/most seasoned Snake players. Olimar's strong air game, good projectiles, disjointed hitboxes, strong ground game, and walking meat shield (the Pikmin often nullify Snake's projectiles) all lend towards him being a good counter to Snake's gameplay. Olimar can combo Snake out of his ridiculous grabs and set him up for intense juggling sessions. His powerful smashes can kill Snake early and his aerials can gimp the hell out of Snake's cypher recovery. However, Olimar is not without his own glaring weaknesses: his light weight, and easily gimpable recovery make him difficult to play against a Snake who keeps the pressure on and the tilt spamming at a steady rate.
- This is more of a personal question based on your success with Olimar against Snake in general. I personally have the hardest time against a good Pikachu or a good ROB. I can't tell you whether or not to drop Olimar as your Snake counter, but those two characters give me even more trouble than the pint sized spaceman with the walking shrub friends.
- As I said above, Snake is countered very well ROB. His absurdly strong aerials, spammable projectiles, large hitboxes, heavy weight, ridiculous recovery,and good ground game all combat Snake very well. I have also heard that Donkey Kong is a very good Snake counter but I have not played one so I really can't say. In terms of general gameplay, characters with good ground games (so that they can hang with Snake and his godly ground game) and better air games should do well against Snake. His propensity to being juggled and his lack of aerial priority make any character who can capitalize on these weaknesses a serious threat. In addition, the ability to outcamp Snake takes away one of his key means of pressuring his opponents and the ability to handicap his mortar slide (the fastest way for Snake to move around) with projectiles will seriously slow down his game and place the rhythm of game in Snake's opponent's hands. ROB and DK both have powerful aerials and smashes with which to kill/juggle Snake, and can gimp the hell out of his recovery with relative ease.
The best DI is done in the direction perpendicular to your character's flight; ergo, if you are flying to the right at a 45 degree angle from the the horizontal, your DI would be 45 degrees above the horizontal to the left. For another example, if you are flying directly to the right (level with the ground or 0 degrees above the horizontal) you would DI directly up. C-Stick/Smash DI is DI using the C-Stick and it functions in the same way as DI with the control stick. Dual stick DI is DI with both the C-stick and the control stick at the same time; this can be done in different directions but the best result are achieved when both are pressed in the same direction. The best way to DI an attack is to DI perpendicular to the expected flightpath at the same instant at which you are hit with both the C-stick and the control stick.
I hope this helped.
EDIT: My addition is in yellow
You're thinking about the game in entirely the wrong way. It's not the last hit that matters.About your second question...
I seem to be doing so much better against Olimar because I have been getting used to edgehugging. I'm getting so used to Olimar's attacks that I know when to do it without punishment.
If you get used to playing an Olimar, I'm sure that Snake will have an easier time beating Olimar. Even though the Olimar is getting experience too. Its easier to get used to Olimar than it is to Snake.
Olimar's combos don't really effect the last part of the stock. But, what Snake can do to Olimar at the end of the stock is fatal. The reason I think its fatal is because if Olimar gets hit with anything with a percentage around eighty, he will most likely get hit off the edge. So many factors can keep Olimar off the edge.
1. An accumulation of explosives (Mine, C4, Grenades, and Mortar all at once.) <--Doesn't take much actually to stop Olimar.
2. A fair that can kill Olimar when he's trying to recover. (If used right.)
3. Edgehugging
What I'm saying is that Snake has more of an advantage at the end. You know what?...It doesn't have to be at the end. It could be at anytime. The same factors that I listed could kill Olimar at any percentage. Its just so easy to get Olimar off the edge in my opinion. Maybe I'm saying that because I haven't faced someone that could stop the stuff I throw at them.Your advice is greatly appreciated. Thank you.
I've always had a decent grasp on DI, but its exact mechanics have always escaped me. From now on I'll DI perpendicular with both the control stick and C-Stick at moment of contact and tap DI multi hit attacks.
You're thinking about the game in entirely the wrong way. It's not the last hit that matters.
If you are asking yourself, "Man, how did I let that finishing blow get me? What could I have done differently," you're asking yourself the wrong question.
It is the percent that got you to that point that matters.